By David Futrelle
Leave it to the terrible excuses for human beings who populate the Incels subreddit to take victim blaming to its perverse extreme.
I’m not sure you really count as an “involuntary celibate” if you hold views so toxic that no women would even want to be in the same room as you.
Might as well take advantage of my bluntness to say what I’m sure everyone’s thinking: Yer a Nazi, Mrex. In the literal sense, not the mythical projectionary “You libs call everyone who disagrees with your dogma a Nazi!!!” sense that somehow never seems to apply to your ridiculous kind calling us “Feminazis.” Also, GO AWAY YOU STUPID GIT.
@kupo
“If someone asks you not to bring up what a victim could have done differently in a thread, don’t characterize that as “I can never talk about how to avoid being raped.” “
As I said, I do not believe that I could have ever said “I think we should discuss ways that women can avoid rape”, in any thread, on any feminist place, and not have it descend into a shitstorm of defensiveness. Maybe I could sneak something in on the sly, or ask for advice for a really specific personal situation, but it would still have to be snuck in, under the radar.
And I understand why. I understand that there’s nothing that I can do to prevent rape. I realize that dying won’t prevent me from being raped. But it still really sucks learning things the hard way, you know?
“When someone tells you that the exit polls show most Trump voters did so for racist, rather than economic reasons,”
I seem to remember being told that ALL Trump voters did so for racist, rather than economic reasons.
But whatever, they voted for a racist. They support a guy that says that nazis are “good guys”. They support a guy that is leaving puerto rico to die, and blaming puerto rico for being the victim of racist policies.
Trump had a bit of a “hero” status among working class whites long before he ran for president. He always talked a good talk, and yes, he was always a Liar, but too much has happened. There’s no plausible deniability left.
“despite your arguments that factory workers are worried about their jobs, that doesn’t mean all factory workers are racists.”
Sorry, I’m not following your logic?
There’s a classist assumption that lower class whites, that “white trash” are all racists. This election, this debate, didn’t happen in a vacuum. White “economic anxiety” is actually seperate from that.
You’re so close, mrex! Let me draw out a parallel picture here.
Right? Feminism 101.
Lemme change a few words for you.
So yes. Poor whites are racist. Rich whites are racist. Middle-class whites are racist. Society’s racist. Just like it’s sexist.
Is poverty or class involved? Sure. Of course. Everyone south of a six-figure salary is gettin’ absolutely crushed, and that is very much a factor in needing to do something about it. But it’s racism that connects that need to the f’n Nazis. Sexism is in there, too. So’s homophobia and transphobia and lord-knows-what-else. It’s gross.
As for where I’m from? This part of Canada’s much like a colder Texas. And I can tell you, absolutely – racism is the issue, not poverty. The poorest here live in the city, bus to work for their two jobs, and are progressive. The middle class work the oilfield, drive trucks, and want to throw the Syrian and American refugees out on their asses.
Yes, American refugees. Those maligned poor white Americans are scaring immigrants and people of colour so badly that they’re illegally crossing our borders to get away from them. Even in the dead of winter, suffering frostbite, losing their fingers and hands, nearly dying in the snow. It’s giving our maligned poor white people fuel to make a run for the government next election, so they can close the borders and throw anyone who isn’t white enough into the ocean.
So, thanks for that.
I am, incidentally, a poor white person. I’m immersed in maligned poor white people. We’re f’n racist.
I should edit this as there’s a lot of blather in it, but I haven’t the time. Mea culpa!
Oh, and it’s Scild, not Schild. Common mistake, but it’s an excuse to post my song
Who here calls people white trash? Because every time I’ve seen that happen around here, they’re immediately called out. If some other progressive somewhere else called people white trash, take it up with them.
I also don’t get why mrex is still assuming even after being told over, and over, and over, and over again that no one else here is working class and white.
That’s another reason to suspect her of trolling. It’s usually the trolls who think we’re all privileged girls majoring in women’s studies and have no experience with the real world and have faced no hardships.
@Scild
“I am, incidentally, a poor white person. I’m immersed in maligned poor white people. We’re f’n racist.”
Yup. Poor whites are racist. Middle class whites are racist. Rich whites are racist. Whites are racist.
Poor whites are not the blithering racist mass that middle-class/upper class/educated whites have to sigh and put up with as we shit in the punch bowl that they only wanted to share with all the POC of the world. I actually had to work on some of this classism myself. 🙁
@WWTH
“Who here calls people white trash?”
No-one?
“I also don’t get why mrex is still assuming even after being told over, and over, and over, and over again that no one else here is working class and white.”
I’m not.
@Scild
Yes, I paraphrased you in the first paragraph. I somehow missed saying something like “well said”. Just add a “well said” there!
Edit: I’m actually curious as to what makes majoring in women’s studies somehow more privileged than STEM logic. Maybe someone can explain!
Scildfreja, sorry! I don’t mean to misspell your name.
I’ve just had to skim read the last three pages of this because mrex verbal diarrhea. Please. Just. Stop. There are actually people trying to write stuff I give a shit about.
I dunno why WWTH, I sure never have worked years in a tar-greased hellhole with my mediocre wage being garnished for a bed and half a flat of the company-subsidy apartments. I have no experience whatsoever with being pushed by demanding hours and a completely farcical safety program into destroying my spine and being relegated to staring mindlessly at a phone and database until I spent every day fighting the urge to drive off the bridge into the oil-slick river below. The nauseating every-day-is-a-marathon crush, knowing that the next day’s gonna be exactly the f’n same? Absolutely no experience with that much maligned poor working class experience here.
@mrex,
I agree. The upper class, middle class, etc, are no more virtuous. That’s called the halo effect.
No one here thinks the upper class or middle class are any better than the lower class. Hell, if anything we think the opposite. Trump’s supporters tend to be more affluent in general.
You’re upset at us for things we don’t believe and have actively fought against. You’re casting us as the bad guys here, because you said something that didn’t reflect what you meant, and then went aggressive when people got angry about what your words actually implied. Why are you casting us as the bad guys here.
Trolls like to think that we are all gender studies majors sipping lattes in our turtlenecks who’ve never had to work a real job. Also, we’re all housewives eating our beta man’s bonbons. Also, we’re all pathetic nobodies in our parents’ basements. Take your pick, really. Trolls are remarkably inconsistent.
And don’t worry about the name, everyone messes it up at least once! A misnamed freja’s hardly a freja at all.
I am sailor from odessa and white. if being sailor is not working class what it is?
I need an avatar. ☺
@Scildfreja
Oh crap! I just realized that I’ve been adding a ‘y’ where no ‘y’ should be.
I need to pay more attention when I’m typing names.
@PeeVee, go to gravatar, sign up with the email address you use here, and it’ll hook up your gravatar to the forums here \o/
@Jesalin, it’s okay! My name is a bit bumpy.
@WWTH,
Any idea where exactly someone can download self-protective instincts from? I don’t seem to have any, or else I’m not interpreting what I’m feeling correctly. Or both.
Need to figure that out, sooner rather than later, I think.
OT, Hollywood division:
James Toback, who directed the movies ‘Black and White’, ‘Two Girls and a Guy’, and ‘The Private Life of a Modern Woman’, now has 38 women accusing him of sexual harrasment:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-mn-james-toback-sexual-harassment-allegations-20171018-story.html
>.<
That’s mrex’s MO, I’ve noticed.
I wish I knew. I’ve just always had a good creepdar. Even as a kid. Once when I was about 15, I just knew that this man in line behind me at a gas station was a creep. Even though he did nothing while we were in the store. Sure enough, when I left on foot, he started following me in his car, pulled up and tried to talk to me and followed me for several blocks when I ignored him.
I also don’t really care if people think I’m a bitch. That helps.
Yeah, I’m starting to wonder if every time she has a bad interaction out in the “real” world, she comes here to take it out on us.
As a man, I will happily confirm: men are trash. That is all.
Just sigh.
Since thread derailed, I’d like some advice. In my Rp group, on Tuesday I found out that one of my players have at best fallen for the gg facade and the ”threats of the literary who’s are massively exaggerated”. At worst sympathizes with the goobers.
I’m personally very conflict averse, I also happens to be the main gm and the group is hosted by me and my fiance.
I have no idea what to do about this.
Wow, I thought GG was officially over at this point, but of course it’s never really over is it? I used to RP with a GM that was a gun-loving conservative, and the best I ever managed was just to never talk about politics. I guess it depends on how much they bring it up/start shit? You don’t have to be their friend, that’s for sure.
@Scild
“You’re upset at us for things we don’t believe and have actively fought against.”
I’m not upset at this place at all. I AM pretty upset with the Democratic Party (and the Republican party even more so).
I understand that what I said on pg2 was confusing, and I take full responsibility for that. But, nothing AUTOMATICALLY implied what I was attacked for. I do have trouble predicting how people will respond. It’s a problem literally everywhere I go. I take a guess, and short of a time machine, I can’t take back something poorly phrased. If people want dogpile on me, I’m really not in the mood for letting that debt go unpaid anymore. I don’t much care if people like me, and actually feel more emotionally comfortable when they don’t.
If it’s your game and your place, you can rescind the invitation to the game. That’s your ultimate option if you find it annoys you to provide snacks and entertainment to a misogynist.
Just saw this…
@firmicute
TW: date rape drugs
“You would need less gbl to get someone to be strongly intoxicated, so that may be why you tasted the salt.
Could be. I did drink the whole glass down, because I figured that the taste was something left over from something else. It just… tasted weird. I heard so much about date rape drugs being tasteless, that I didn’t really consider any other option, considering that I thought I could trust the people I was with, and thought I was responsible with watching my drink.
“Afaik not a single person was drugged- all just had alcohol intoxication and so its important to see that it can very well happen that your tolerance changed- like if you get ill or have not eaten enough can lead to a person getting shitfaced from a dose that’s lower than they can usually take..”
Plus they could have been drinking mixed drinks. Back when I was I college we used to make punch with Everclear, and it’s surprising just how much you can mask the taste of alcohol if you know how to mix it.
I thought there was something familiar about that image. It’s from the series “The Bionic Woman.” I found a nearly identical image after a Google search.
If asking you to think about what you said and what it implies and asking if that’s really what you’re going with is an attack in your eyes, I’m not sure you’re going to get along well here, ever. We’re not going to let problematic shit go unchecked and if you can’t take someone pointing out where what you said implies some really fucked up shit, you’re always going to have conflict here.
I responded to what you wrote. I can’t respond to what you meant to write.
Then maybe the problem isn’t with how people interpret what you write, but how you phrase it. Maybe look at that. But even when I give you the benefit of the doubt and try to be nice, if anything I write contradicts you in any way or points out that something you said was inappropriate, rude, victim blamey, racist, anti-feminist, etc. etc. you get extremely angry and lash out. So I have a hard time believing you’ll even try to examine what you might be doing wrong.
You can’t unsay what you said, no, but you can easily make it better by apologizing and demonstrating better behavior. Plenty of commenters here have done that.