By David Futrelle
Leave it to the terrible excuses for human beings who populate the Incels subreddit to take victim blaming to its perverse extreme.
I’m not sure you really count as an “involuntary celibate” if you hold views so toxic that no women would even want to be in the same room as you.
It’s shit like this that turns a perfectly serviceable term into meaningless garbage.
I think you said something incredibly stupid and then you blew up when called on it.
No one told you what you meant. We talked about what you said. And you’re really going to tell Petal they can’t talk about this? They weren’t mansplaining a god damn thing.
@POM
“It’s shit like this that turns a perfectly serviceable term into meaningless garbage.”
Oh, wait, you’re right. Please, white males of WHTM, please tell me how I may or may not personally experience misogyny. After all, as long as you’re using one woman’s words to steamroll over another woman’s words, it can’t possibly be mansplaining.
“I think you said something incredibly stupid and then you blew up when called on it.”
Sure. Could you please, in your own words, explain what it was that I actually intended to say, and not whatever you THINK I said because you’re incapable of having any conversation with me that doesn’t involve making (sometimes ridiculous) negative assumptions about me.
Oh, and while you’re playing psychic, what’s the winning lottery numbers?
Speaking of people who don’t know what the fuck just happened, that’s not what just happened.
Please read above, because I said nothing about what you INTENDED to say. I don’t know what you INTENDED to say. What you DID say was dumb as hell.
Also, I owe you nothing, so demand nothing from me, jackass.
@kupo
“No one told you what you meant.”
Well then, I didn’t mean what you thought I did. Alright?
If you want to argue that overt and covert misogyny are equally harmful, or whatever you think, I’m happy to hear your thoughts.
Fuck off, mrex.
@POM
“Also, I owe you nothing, so demand nothing from me, jackass.”
Sorry, but since you’re talking to me, you do owe me a good faith attempt to understand. Which is why I asked you to repeat back what I said, since I don’t think you actually understand, despite sitting here and making attacks.
So yes, you do owe me that much.
Edit: So, if you don’t know what I intended to say, what are you arguing?
Take your own advice for once. Ask what the other person meant. Don’t assume.
A) I’m not psychic. Why are you getting so aggressive with me for responding to what you did say rather than what you meant to say?
B) Intent does not mitigate harm. Your words were really gross and they were upsetting to read whether that was your intention or not.
Edit:
Again you’re implying that if your intended meaning didn’t get across people didn’t understand. That’s not the case. Stop treating us like we’re incapable of comprehending or deliberately misinterpreting.
Mrex, when you come in swinging at everyone who addresses you, they most certainly do not owe you a “good faith attempt to understand” just because they’re addressing you.
For instance, there are very many right-wing trolls and bigots on another forum I frequent. They very regularly bemoan me for not being “tolerant” because I don’t entertain their ideas. I have absolutely no reason to entertain their ideas when I address them, and when they respond to my posts by getting even more aggressive at me, that gives me even less reason to seriously converse with them.
Nope, I sure don’t. That you feel entitled to something from me is your problem, not mine. I owe you two things: jack, and shit.
Now, if you were someone else, I would have go ahead and do it anyway, not because you are entitled to anything from me, but because I voluntarily engage in civil discourse with civil people. But you are not a civil person and you have proven yourself, on this thread and others, to be incapable of civil discourse. I volunteer nothing for you.
Because what you DID say was fucking stupid, and you literally asked me what I thought of what you said. You asked me a question, I answered it, and now you’re pissy. Your pissitude means nothing to me, and what was going on behind your eyes when you made your fucking stupid statement is irrelevant.
@POM
“Nope, I sure don’t. That you feel entitled to something from me is your problem, not mine. I owe you two things: jack, and shit.”
You didn’t think this through did you? If you don’t owe me civility, then I don’t owe you civility, and I’m justified in my “pissitude”. Unless of course you’re “better” than me, and entitled when I’m not.
So, engage in good faith, or piss off.
@kupo
“Again you’re implying that if your intended meaning didn’t get across people didn’t understand. That’s not the case. Stop treating us like we’re incapable of comprehending or deliberately misinterpreting.”
Actually, what I said was that I worded things confusingly, and then apologized for that. I took the blame for the misunderstanding, not you.
You then attacked me.
I said that you’re incapable of civility, not that you owe it to me. I’d be pretty dumb to expect civility from someone I literally just said can’t do it! That would be like expecting my cat to perform calculus!
There is no logical progression there, either from the beginning of your sentence, or from anything I said to you before. See what I mean about civil discourse? You can’t read, or you choose not to read, or something, not sure what, but you certainly don’t respond to what was said in any rational way.
I mean, you literally asked me what I thought of what you said, and then I told you in answer to the question you literally asked, and you got pissy at the answer to the question that you literally asked me to answer. So your pissiness is now somehow justified! by the logic of … ??? None has been provided, or even attempted! There is no civil discourse with you.
“I mean, you literally asked me what I thought of what you said, and then I told you in answer to the question you literally asked, and you got pissy at the answer to the question that you literally asked me to answer. “
Yeah, you “answered” by insulting me. I answered with pissiness. Quelle surprise! So irrational!
” So your pissiness is now somehow justified! by the logic of … ???”
Well if I *don’t* owe you civility, because you’re not entitled to me acting in good faith, then am I not justified in “pissiness”? After all, according to your logic, you’re not entitled to anything but “jack” and “shit” from me as well, (unless you’re somehow special), and I certainly don’t think that “freedom from pissiness” falls under either “jack” or “shit”.
@dslucia
“Mrex, when you come in swinging at everyone who addresses you, they most certainly do not owe you a “good faith attempt to understand” just because they’re addressing you.
So, obviously there’s quite a bit of backstory going on here.
You see, I don’t think that white men actually can eat privilege. I think that lower class whites still suffer class oppression, a position here that most here thinks makes me a “Nazi”, despite the fact that Nazi’s literally view me, a non-straight, feminist, crazy, single mother as less human than ISIS.* Of course, my actual position is less controversial, but don’t let that get in the way of a good lie. After all, I’m not the target here, I’m the example to every other liberal that may point out that there may be some issues, that they will be met with flat out abuse. Because no-one here could ever POSSIBLY be wrong, and implying otherwise makes you a “troll”, marked out for abuse.
What follows is usually some rediculous throwdown where I spend far too much time crying because I’m a dumb shit, while multiple people such as POM take turns trolling me in hopes of baiting me into saying something bannable. I learn some good things, because I am a stupid privileged fuck, and Axe is a rockstar, and taught me a lot. I also condesended to people, which is shit on my face, but also partly bullshit, because POM and kupo and others never quite stop to think that maybe since they’re not parents, that they don’t actually have the life experience of every working class white, and that they probably shouldn’t reduce every complaint made by a white person into “whining”. POM in particular doesn’t seem to realize that most social programs in the US have waiting lists, and likes to call me self-absorbed for pointing out otherwise. And throughout it all, I’m expected to be polite, to “have empahy”, and to “not assume what others meant”, all while being misrepresented.
Well fuck that. You guys wanted to troll out a meltdown. Congrats. *bows*
*As proven by science.
I see you have no idea what intersectional feminism is or what the vast majority of the commenters on here believe.
We agree that classism can be present regardless of race. What we don’t agree is that it’s not racist to vote for a racist platform because it might give you a small amount of economic relief. See, ignoring the racist aspects of Trump’s platform to serve your own needs is, in fact, racist.
Mrex, exactly what part of “Nobody likes you, nobody has ever liked you, fuck off and don’t come back” are you too stupid to understand?
“What we don’t agree is that it’s not racist to vote for a racist platform because it might give you a small amount of economic relief. See, ignoring the racist aspects of Trump’s platform to serve your own needs is, in fact, racist.”
I’m not sure that I’ve ever held this position, but if I did, I certainly don’t hold it now. I 150% agree that voting in a racist to serve your own needs is racist. Just like voting in a homophobe (Pence) makes you homophobic, and so on.
The argument that I do remember making is that making a mockery of lower class whites by making fun of their “economic anxiety” is counterproductive. Of course, later I learned that “fuck your economic anxiety” was aimed at people using economic anxiety to excuse racism, which in proper context was very funny. Hey, I have a dark sense of humor!
It wasn’t funny out of context.
I also made an argument that people rarely vote against their own self interest, but I also made the argument that white economic self interest and concern for POC are not mutually exclusive, and we should not treat them as such.
@SFHC
Keep trying to burn that bridge that was never there. Someday the air might catch!
I don’t think this hasn’t been pointed out yet, so – IP isn’t a man. They’re nonbinary. And you know that, so I guess we can add deliberate misgendering and transphobia to your exceedingly long rap sheet.
I recall this being explained ad nauseam and you standing by your original position. This is the first time I’ve heard you say that you agree with the stance that voting for Trump is racist.
@mrex
Believe it when I see it, no objections or disagreements, I know, and I did what I could with what I had to work with
That all said, fuck you. You don’t get to use me as the good guy to berate everyone else. We’re all tryna teach you the same shit, you’re just not getting it. You didn’t even get it when I tried to teach you, but I was nicer than the others, so you could justify ‘accepting’ my criticisms without ever fixing your bullshit. Girl, bye!
@SFHC
Oh, how do YOU know that it’s deliberate? If this is the first time in my “long rap sheet” here that I’ve misgendered someone, then it probably wasn’t deliberate.
Keep grasping those straws.
@IP
I doubt SFHC would lie about this. I’m sorry that I misgendered you. Full stop.
@kupo
I don’t think you ever actually listened to what I actually said if this is literally the first time you heard it. I’ve criticized white’s unwillingness to confront their racial privilege before, including my own.
But I don’t want to rehash arguments that may have been made in the past. Especially since you are right.
@Axe
If you were “nicer”, I don’t remember that. What I do remember is that you actually took the time to engage, rather than insisting that I should change my opinions because I would be abused otherwise.
Honestly, I’m more willing to listen to you on this because you’re black, anyway.
Nice people?
I got a flower delivery notice today, got choked up again,
Thanks again all for your thoughts 🙂
I am feeling a bit better, thanks to thoughts here too.
@ Kat, yes the little things….
I got choked up over a flower delivery notice.
But also, (positive) aww, people have gone out of their way to show that they care. 🙂
For the confused out there –
Be like this. Don’t be an asshole.
These (various angry) people claim to be logical. OK, so in what other arena in life is it recommended that you be an asshole? You should be an asshole toward women (or anyone else) uh, why?
It makes no sense. Why don’t they see this?
I’m about to wrap it up here and was looking at some local weather, –
OK does the weather person stand up there and say: Hello, I’m an ASSHOLE! And you know what? Fuck your commute, fuck your various plans, fuck dangerous highway conditions, and storms and flooding, and maybe even tornados, because yeah, I’m an asshole.
Uh, no.
Don’t be an asshole. Who in the hell wants to be an asshole?
Women like assholes? Uh, no.
Put the TV off and stop reading crap online.
You’d think people could parse out the crap, drama, fiction, sensationalized “news” now, evidently not.
Don’t be an asshole. Is that too hard of an idea to grasp?
(Rape tw)
This excerpt was literally some “if she was violated in the city and did not cry out, it wasn’t rape” shit.
@Z&T
All my condolences.