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Women in abusive relationships should be jailed as accomplices, “involuntarily celibate” Redditor argues

What incels fantasize about

By David Futrelle

Leave it to the terrible excuses for human beings who populate the Incels subreddit to take victim blaming to its perverse extreme.

women in abusive relationships should be sent to prison (self.Incels) submitted 17 days ago by Alia_Harkonnen They are the fuel for their abusive Chads they'll later cry about, they are just as bad but also spineless and disgusting. They aren't victims of anything at all. they are in on it. If beating someone up is a crime than willingly letting them beat you up is supporting a criminal activity and should get them locked up as conspirators. Of course if it can be proven that they didn't have a choice cause they were locked in a basement or if they report the Chad and leave, then they shouldn't go to prison. But if they are caught in an ongoing relationship with history of abuse, they should be treated like criminals they are and not like victims.

I’m not sure you really count as an “involuntary celibate” if you hold views so toxic that no women would even want to be in the same room as you.

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Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
2 years ago

Might as well take advantage of my bluntness to say what I’m sure everyone’s thinking: Yer a Nazi, Mrex. In the literal sense, not the mythical projectionary “You libs call everyone who disagrees with your dogma a Nazi!!!” sense that somehow never seems to apply to your ridiculous kind calling us “Feminazis.” Also, GO AWAY YOU STUPID GIT.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@kupo

“If someone asks you not to bring up what a victim could have done differently in a thread, don’t characterize that as “I can never talk about how to avoid being raped.” “

As I said, I do not believe that I could have ever said “I think we should discuss ways that women can avoid rape”, in any thread, on any feminist place, and not have it descend into a shitstorm of defensiveness. Maybe I could sneak something in on the sly, or ask for advice for a really specific personal situation, but it would still have to be snuck in, under the radar.

And I understand why. I understand that there’s nothing that I can do to prevent rape. I realize that dying won’t prevent me from being raped. But it still really sucks learning things the hard way, you know?

“When someone tells you that the exit polls show most Trump voters did so for racist, rather than economic reasons,”

I seem to remember being told that ALL Trump voters did so for racist, rather than economic reasons.

But whatever, they voted for a racist. They support a guy that says that nazis are “good guys”. They support a guy that is leaving puerto rico to die, and blaming puerto rico for being the victim of racist policies.

Trump had a bit of a “hero” status among working class whites long before he ran for president. He always talked a good talk, and yes, he was always a Liar, but too much has happened. There’s no plausible deniability left.

“despite your arguments that factory workers are worried about their jobs, that doesn’t mean all factory workers are racists.”

Sorry, I’m not following your logic?

There’s a classist assumption that lower class whites, that “white trash” are all racists. This election, this debate, didn’t happen in a vacuum. White “economic anxiety” is actually seperate from that.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

You’re so close, mrex! Let me draw out a parallel picture here.

Society is systemically sexist. Rapists are excused because they were drunk or because gosh you’ll ruin his life or whatever nonsense. Women put up with an endless barrage of sexist garbage from all men. Even the good ones that say they aren’t sexist. It’s a problem with society. The only ones who aren’t sexist are the ones who have dug deep into their own biases, felt real pain, and continually, consciously fight their internal biases towards women.

Right? Feminism 101.

Lemme change a few words for you.

Society is systemically racist. White supremacists are excused because they were drunk or because gosh you’ll ruin his life or whatever nonsense. People of colour put up with an endless barrage of racist garbage from all white people. Even the good ones that say they aren’t racist. It’s a problem with society. The only ones who aren’t racist are the ones who have dug deep into their own biases, felt real pain, and continually, consciously fight their internal biases towards people of colour.

So yes. Poor whites are racist. Rich whites are racist. Middle-class whites are racist. Society’s racist. Just like it’s sexist.

Is poverty or class involved? Sure. Of course. Everyone south of a six-figure salary is gettin’ absolutely crushed, and that is very much a factor in needing to do something about it. But it’s racism that connects that need to the f’n Nazis. Sexism is in there, too. So’s homophobia and transphobia and lord-knows-what-else. It’s gross.

As for where I’m from? This part of Canada’s much like a colder Texas. And I can tell you, absolutely – racism is the issue, not poverty. The poorest here live in the city, bus to work for their two jobs, and are progressive. The middle class work the oilfield, drive trucks, and want to throw the Syrian and American refugees out on their asses.

Yes, American refugees. Those maligned poor white Americans are scaring immigrants and people of colour so badly that they’re illegally crossing our borders to get away from them. Even in the dead of winter, suffering frostbite, losing their fingers and hands, nearly dying in the snow. It’s giving our maligned poor white people fuel to make a run for the government next election, so they can close the borders and throw anyone who isn’t white enough into the ocean.

So, thanks for that.

I am, incidentally, a poor white person. I’m immersed in maligned poor white people. We’re f’n racist.

I should edit this as there’s a lot of blather in it, but I haven’t the time. Mea culpa!

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

Oh, and it’s Scild, not Schild. Common mistake, but it’s an excuse to post my song

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Who here calls people white trash? Because every time I’ve seen that happen around here, they’re immediately called out. If some other progressive somewhere else called people white trash, take it up with them.

I also don’t get why mrex is still assuming even after being told over, and over, and over, and over again that no one else here is working class and white.

That’s another reason to suspect her of trolling. It’s usually the trolls who think we’re all privileged girls majoring in women’s studies and have no experience with the real world and have faced no hardships.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@Scild

“I am, incidentally, a poor white person. I’m immersed in maligned poor white people. We’re f’n racist.”

Yup. Poor whites are racist. Middle class whites are racist. Rich whites are racist. Whites are racist.

Poor whites are not the blithering racist mass that middle-class/upper class/educated whites have to sigh and put up with as we shit in the punch bowl that they only wanted to share with all the POC of the world. I actually had to work on some of this classism myself. 🙁

@WWTH

“Who here calls people white trash?”

No-one?

“I also don’t get why mrex is still assuming even after being told over, and over, and over, and over again that no one else here is working class and white.”

I’m not.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@Scild

Yes, I paraphrased you in the first paragraph. I somehow missed saying something like “well said”. Just add a “well said” there!

Edit: I’m actually curious as to what makes majoring in women’s studies somehow more privileged than STEM logic. Maybe someone can explain!

PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
2 years ago

Scildfreja, sorry! I don’t mean to misspell your name.

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
2 years ago

I’ve just had to skim read the last three pages of this because mrex verbal diarrhea. Please. Just. Stop. There are actually people trying to write stuff I give a shit about.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

no one else here is working class and white

I dunno why WWTH, I sure never have worked years in a tar-greased hellhole with my mediocre wage being garnished for a bed and half a flat of the company-subsidy apartments. I have no experience whatsoever with being pushed by demanding hours and a completely farcical safety program into destroying my spine and being relegated to staring mindlessly at a phone and database until I spent every day fighting the urge to drive off the bridge into the oil-slick river below. The nauseating every-day-is-a-marathon crush, knowing that the next day’s gonna be exactly the f’n same? Absolutely no experience with that much maligned poor working class experience here.

@mrex,

Poor whites are not the blithering racist mass that middle-class/upper class/educated whites have to sigh and put up with as we shit in the punch bowl that they only wanted to share with all the POC of the world. I actually had to work on some of this classism myself.

I agree. The upper class, middle class, etc, are no more virtuous. That’s called the halo effect.

No one here thinks the upper class or middle class are any better than the lower class. Hell, if anything we think the opposite. Trump’s supporters tend to be more affluent in general.

You’re upset at us for things we don’t believe and have actively fought against. You’re casting us as the bad guys here, because you said something that didn’t reflect what you meant, and then went aggressive when people got angry about what your words actually implied. Why are you casting us as the bad guys here.

Edit: I’m actually curious as to what makes majoring in women’s studies somehow more privileged than STEM logic. Maybe someone can explain!

Trolls like to think that we are all gender studies majors sipping lattes in our turtlenecks who’ve never had to work a real job. Also, we’re all housewives eating our beta man’s bonbons. Also, we’re all pathetic nobodies in our parents’ basements. Take your pick, really. Trolls are remarkably inconsistent.

And don’t worry about the name, everyone messes it up at least once! A misnamed freja’s hardly a freja at all.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

no one else here is working class and white

I am sailor from odessa and white. if being sailor is not working class what it is?

PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
2 years ago

I need an avatar. ☺

Jesalin
Jesalin
2 years ago

@Scildfreja

Oh crap! I just realized that I’ve been adding a ‘y’ where no ‘y’ should be.

I need to pay more attention when I’m typing names.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

@PeeVee, go to gravatar, sign up with the email address you use here, and it’ll hook up your gravatar to the forums here \o/

@Jesalin, it’s okay! My name is a bit bumpy.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
2 years ago

@WWTH,

Any idea where exactly someone can download self-protective instincts from? I don’t seem to have any, or else I’m not interpreting what I’m feeling correctly. Or both.

Need to figure that out, sooner rather than later, I think.

OT, Hollywood division:

James Toback, who directed the movies ‘Black and White’, ‘Two Girls and a Guy’, and ‘The Private Life of a Modern Woman’, now has 38 women accusing him of sexual harrasment:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-mn-james-toback-sexual-harassment-allegations-20171018-story.html

>.<

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
2 years ago

You’re upset at us for things we don’t believe and have actively fought against.

That’s mrex’s MO, I’ve noticed.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Any idea where exactly someone can download self-protective instincts from? I don’t seem to have any, or else I’m not interpreting what I’m feeling correctly. Or both.

I wish I knew. I’ve just always had a good creepdar. Even as a kid. Once when I was about 15, I just knew that this man in line behind me at a gas station was a creep. Even though he did nothing while we were in the store. Sure enough, when I left on foot, he started following me in his car, pulled up and tried to talk to me and followed me for several blocks when I ignored him.

I also don’t really care if people think I’m a bitch. That helps.

That’s mrex’s MO, I’ve noticed.

Yeah, I’m starting to wonder if every time she has a bad interaction out in the “real” world, she comes here to take it out on us.

LaterSpaceCowboy
LaterSpaceCowboy
2 years ago

As a man, I will happily confirm: men are trash. That is all.

Lanariel
Lanariel
2 years ago

Just sigh.

Since thread derailed, I’d like some advice. In my Rp group, on Tuesday I found out that one of my players have at best fallen for the gg facade and the ”threats of the literary who’s are massively exaggerated”. At worst sympathizes with the goobers.

I’m personally very conflict averse, I also happens to be the main gm and the group is hosted by me and my fiance.

I have no idea what to do about this.

calmdown
calmdown
2 years ago

Wow, I thought GG was officially over at this point, but of course it’s never really over is it? I used to RP with a GM that was a gun-loving conservative, and the best I ever managed was just to never talk about politics. I guess it depends on how much they bring it up/start shit? You don’t have to be their friend, that’s for sure.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@Scild

“You’re upset at us for things we don’t believe and have actively fought against.”

I’m not upset at this place at all. I AM pretty upset with the Democratic Party (and the Republican party even more so).

I understand that what I said on pg2 was confusing, and I take full responsibility for that. But, nothing AUTOMATICALLY implied what I was attacked for. I do have trouble predicting how people will respond. It’s a problem literally everywhere I go. I take a guess, and short of a time machine, I can’t take back something poorly phrased. If people want dogpile on me, I’m really not in the mood for letting that debt go unpaid anymore. I don’t much care if people like me, and actually feel more emotionally comfortable when they don’t.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
2 years ago

I have no idea what to do about this.

If it’s your game and your place, you can rescind the invitation to the game. That’s your ultimate option if you find it annoys you to provide snacks and entertainment to a misogynist.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

Just saw this…

@firmicute

TW: date rape drugs

“You would need less gbl to get someone to be strongly intoxicated, so that may be why you tasted the salt.

Could be. I did drink the whole glass down, because I figured that the taste was something left over from something else. It just… tasted weird. I heard so much about date rape drugs being tasteless, that I didn’t really consider any other option, considering that I thought I could trust the people I was with, and thought I was responsible with watching my drink.

“Afaik not a single person was drugged- all just had alcohol intoxication and so its important to see that it can very well happen that your tolerance changed- like if you get ill or have not eaten enough can lead to a person getting shitfaced from a dose that’s lower than they can usually take..”

Plus they could have been drinking mixed drinks. Back when I was I college we used to make punch with Everclear, and it’s surprising just how much you can mask the taste of alcohol if you know how to mix it.

Steven Dutch
Steven Dutch
2 years ago

I thought there was something familiar about that image. It’s from the series “The Bionic Woman.” I found a nearly identical image after a Google search.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I understand that what I said on pg2 was confusing, and I take full responsibility for that. But, nothing AUTOMATICALLY implied what I was attacked for.

If asking you to think about what you said and what it implies and asking if that’s really what you’re going with is an attack in your eyes, I’m not sure you’re going to get along well here, ever. We’re not going to let problematic shit go unchecked and if you can’t take someone pointing out where what you said implies some really fucked up shit, you’re always going to have conflict here.

I responded to what you wrote. I can’t respond to what you meant to write.

I do have trouble predicting how people will respond. It’s a problem literally everywhere I go.

Then maybe the problem isn’t with how people interpret what you write, but how you phrase it. Maybe look at that. But even when I give you the benefit of the doubt and try to be nice, if anything I write contradicts you in any way or points out that something you said was inappropriate, rude, victim blamey, racist, anti-feminist, etc. etc. you get extremely angry and lash out. So I have a hard time believing you’ll even try to examine what you might be doing wrong.

I take a guess, and short of a time machine, I can’t take back something poorly phrased.

You can’t unsay what you said, no, but you can easily make it better by apologizing and demonstrating better behavior. Plenty of commenters here have done that.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@kupo

“If asking you to think about what you said and what it implies and asking if that’s really what you’re going with is an attack in your eyes,”

No, it’s not. But this is…

“No. Don’t feel sorry for incels. Not even by softening it with an ‘almost’. That almost in there is like a Devil’s Advocate argument. It’s a way for you to make an argument while still claiming that you weren’t actually making that argument. We see what you’re doing.”

Kupo, think about how you would have responded if I said this to you. And before you say, “that’s different”, let me just point out that I’m not any more of a fan of incels or Nazi murderers than you are.

“We’re not going to let problematic shit go unchecked.”

You shouldn’t.

“So I have a hard time believing you’ll even try to examine what you might be doing wrong.”

I always try to examine what I did wrong. Hell, I’m in therapy for it.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Kupo, think about how you would have responded if I said this to you. And before you say, “that’s different”, let me just point out that I’m not any more of a fan of incels or Nazi murderers than you are.

I was never going to say “that’s different.” This is a big part of the problem; you put words into people’s mouths and then respond to that instead of what they actually say.

As for what I said, I don’t see anything wrong with it. I don’t feel like it’s a bad thing to point out that you’re using that “almost” as a way to make an argument while having plausible deniability (basically being a devil’s advocate), and if someone else, say WWTH* were to say that to me I’d re-read what I wrote to see why it came off that way.

*Chosen because she’s outspoken and not someone I think is here to rile people up.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

“anti-feminist”

Oh geeeez. Because I disliked 1 female politician? Please.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Oh my Katie, I wasn’t calling you anti-feminist. I was using that as an example of a reason I might pick apart something someone says on here. FFS.

Edit: and this is another reminder that if we say something about an argument you make, that something doesn’t extend to you as a person. If you make an argument that’s anti-feminist at some point (I don’t know if you have or have not, I don’t catalog all the disagreements we have), then if I call that out I’m not saying you’re anti-feminist. I’m saying the argument is. Now if everything you say and think is about reversing women’s suffrage or getting women out of the workforce, then I might make a claim like that, but I have absolutely zero reason to believe you are an anti-feminist at this point.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

“I was never going to say “that’s different.” This is a big part of the problem; you put words into people’s mouths and then respond to that instead of what they actually say.”

Ok you’re right, I did put words in your mouth. And you’re right, I need to work on that.

As to that “almost”, I just don’t see how you’re getting that devil’s advocate reading. I just don’t. But then, I’m an idiot, so…

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

RE: the criticisms we make are not against you as a person

That’s fair kupo. Just… I’m not psychic either. I don’t really know your motivations, or what’s in your head, if you don’t clearly state them. I have enough trouble trusting people, without trying to interpet what they mean when they seem to be coming at me.

I should ask.

Lanariel
Lanariel
2 years ago

Thanks a lot for the awnsers. After a long think and talk with a mutual friend of the gg player I have decided to see if he brings it up at tomorrow’s game. This also because some of the other players and close friends thought I was just unreasonable.

Thanks for being here and being the awesome community that you are. Reading have helped me through some dark times.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
2 years ago

@Lanariel

This also because some of the other players and close friends thought I was just unreasonable.

You shouldn’t be uncomfortable in your own place, regardless of what others think. It’s easy for other people to say YOU are the one rocking the boat and YOU are the one who should be quiet, because that’s the option that requires the least work on their parts. Keep that in mind when you make your decision on what to do. It’s not your job to suck it up so things are easy for other people.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@Lanariel: re: being unreasonable

As a player and not DM, i want to thank you for the time and effort you put in to preparing and running a game. I also want to thank you for hosting it, which means having a large enough space to have it, and cleaning up before and after.

If you’re doing it online, i want to thank you for holding a group together online. That isn’t easy.

After thanking you for ALL OF THIS WORK that you do to have fun with friends, i would like to weigh in on someone saying you’re being ‘unreasonable’ for not wanting to give time and effort to host and run a game that you might not feel comfortable in anymore.

Fuck that noise. Tabletop rping is a group experience, and the group makes it what it is. If you don’t like what someone brings to the table, you are well within your rights to ask them to leave. This is supposed to be fun.

Easy to say for me, where there are no social consequences. But i wanted you to hear it from some random person online, just in case that helps you in whatever decision you ultimately make.

But as PoM says, people often tell others to not make waves so they don’t have to deal with things.

-signed Rhuu, someone who has an inkling of how much time this takes and wants you to have so much fun playing

Lanariel
Lanariel
2 years ago

Thanks everyone. The last session went well and if he brings up that kind of thing again he knows he is out.

I would call myself a feminist but whenever I do everyone shits all over me sooo
I would call myself a feminist but whenever I do everyone shits all over me sooo
2 years ago

This man (the man referenced in the post) is despicable. I can’t even begin to fathom why anyone would think this. Ugh. More proof that everything is shit and the world is just going downhill and it will continue going downhill until women are considered scum/only good as sex objects.

Youngguy
Youngguy
2 years ago

They hate women. They hate life. They hate the world. Thats what self-hate can do. In some cases it radiates from yourself to other people who have done nothing wrong.

John Smith
2 years ago

If everything you say and think is about reversing women’s suffrage or getting women out of the workforce, then I might make a claim like that, but I have absolutely zero reason to believe you are an anti-feminist at this point. For More more relationship blog check it

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@John Smith
Hey, thanks for the link to the “inflatable love doll.” I backed out of that website quickly, but I’ll bet the price is super reasonable.

Jayne Without the Warm Hat
Jayne Without the Warm Hat
2 years ago

This thread makes me remember:

Today I had yet another conversation with someone I know at work (we both train new workers and are location managers) about a new worker screaming at Coworker and complaining to district manager/stomping out of training, and that’s after multiple complaints about workers who yell at Coworker and C. just had to yell back because C stands up for Cself!

I have never had to raise my voice at work. Funny that.

Coworker once told me the story of C’ s abusive marriage and linked it to C’ s determination to stand up for Cself. And I keep thinking this BURN IT WITH FIRE SELF DEFENSE I DON’T CARE IF YOU DON’T LIKE ME F YOU thing is…shall I say counter-productive?

Yes. Mrex, this is so counter-productive. I do not think this response is what you want. Therefore, telling us that you’ll strike back! You will! So there! is a thing you should stop. It does not protect you. It bores and alienates others.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Oh look, a spam bot (John Smith)! Should I feel complimented that it chose my comment to plagiarize?

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