By David Futrelle
In the wake of every mass shooting, we hear the inevitable cries from NRA types not to “politicize” the tragedy by pointing out the obvious fact that stricter gun laws would make such tragedies less likely in the future. We watch the trolls and shitlords of the alt-right flood the internet with disinformation and conspiracy theories. These reactions are now as predictable as the reappearance of the sun on the horizon every morning.
The internet’s incels — the bitter fringe-dwellers who consider their “involuntary celibacy” to be a crime against their humanity — have their own predictable responses to such tragedies: they mock the victims as “normies” deserving death — and try as best as they can to adopt the latest mass killer as one of their own.
In the case of last night’s horrific mass shooting in Las Vegas — a massacre that at last count left 59 dead and more than 500 injured — Reddit’s incels did not disappoint on this front. In a number of different threads devoted to the murders, regulars on the Incels subreddit celebrated the death of “normies” and “chads” and even tried to claim that mass killer Stephen Paddock — a man with a girlfriend, and thus decidedly not an incel — was “a depressed and delusional former Chad turned to oldcel.”
For many in the subreddit, the news of the mass shooting was something of an inspiration. In a thread offering faux condolences for the dozens of “normies [who] just got fragged in Las Vegas,” several commenters had similar ideas:
Those calling for basic human decency got an earful from their fellow incels.
![lonelyrommel1998 32 points 3 hours ago RIP . Please my brothers, be civil during this time of tragedy. I know you guys hate anyone that isnt you, but they are human beings nonetheless permalinkembedsavegive gold [β]novalueinvictimhoodhttps://goo.gl/2yvNyj 2 points 44 minutes ago they are human beings So? Being a modern human being is the greatest crime you can commit. permalinkembedsaveparentgive gold [β]wandercampEmbracing the sublime terror of incel existance -3 points an hour ago Fuck off normie I fapped to that video permalinkembedsaveparentgive gold [β]fuck-women-everyday23 KV Approachcel Hopecel Knowledgecel -2 points an hour ago Las Vegas is normie heaven. People go there for drinks, socializing, one night stands, and gambling. Incels will never experience that.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/inm3.png?resize=580%2C636&ssl=1)
In another thread, Reddit’s incels lashed out at the “normies” expressing sympathy for the victims on social media — and at the alleged “degeneracy” of Las Vegas.
![BlackPill4831yo bald manlet escortcel ε 'Self improvement is masturbation' 10 points 3 hours ago I hate all this 'competitive grief' on social media. They don't give a fuck about the homeless, jobless and sexless. permalinkembedsavegive gold [β]Bojack101 6 points 3 hours ago The degenerate las vegas city deserved it](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/inm6.png?resize=517%2C459&ssl=1)
![BlackPillRevolutionWeAreRevolting | Copernicus | ?NormiesCanAllBurn?| Hate 5 points 3 hours ago All virtue-signalling and posting it all over instawhore or fakebook to show how much they "care" just to fit in the rest of the conformitard sheep who do the same thing permalinkembedsavegive gold [β]touchbutt2Women can't be lonely. women can't be depressed. can't be incel 4 points 4 hours ago Exactly. they can call us evil all they want but at least we are honest. The entire degenrate city of las vegas and everyone in it could die and it wouldn't affect my day in any way](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/inm4.png?resize=517%2C724&ssl=1)
The subreddit’s regulars found it much easier to identify with the shooter.
Still, it’s unlikely thatΒ Paddock, a 64-year-old retiree who apparently lived with a girlfriend, will be embraced by incels as another Elliot Rodger, the incel mass murderer celebrated as a “saint” and “supreme gentleman” by this despicable crowd. But that didn’t stop some from trying to posthumously recruit Paddock to inceldom, none more ingeniously than this fellow.
It’s a bit of a reach, given that pretty much the only things we seem to know for sure about Paddock is that he was neither a former Chad nor an incel. I guess the Incels subreddit regulars are a little hard up for, er, “heroes” these days.
Citizen Rat said
I feel this way about supporting equality for people of color while being a white person.
I was reading the article Joe B linked when, apropos of nothing, Husbeast popped his head in and told me that his father had gotten a Nazi luftwaffe dagger while working as a DOD contractor in Germany in the early 60s. He went on to say that he thought his brother had it and probably wouldn’t give it to any of his kids and that he (Husbeast) was thinking of giving it to a friend of his that was raised in Germany.
We had as much of a discussion about my, shall we say, misgivings about all this as was possible in the time we had before he had to leave for work. Bottom line is, Husbeast sees the object as a work of art and history and I am just really grossed out by it, especially in light of what’s happening in our country (U.S.) and the world with Nazis trying to re-establish themselves.
I really don’t know how the friend might feel about such a gift. This person was the host of the horrible Memorial Day party I complained of back in May with the racist/sexist loud, drunk guest (who is supposedly no longer welcome, but I can’t vouch for that.)
I’m still a bit upset and trying to sort out my feelings. Any insight would be welcomed, but I’m really just venting at this point.
On one hand, a fair amount of both classical and modern art has been created by fucking terrible people, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that the art cannot be enjoyed (especially the really old classical stuff). On the other, not very much of that art is a literal weapon that was created and used by terrible people in recent history, and whose toxic ideology is still flaring up.
If it were me, I would donate the dagger to a museum or something, where it can be kept in appropriate context and be educational. I wouldn’t keep it in a private home or collection, because that feels wrong.
Surplus to Requirements – the therapy part was mostly around parenting. Basic approach was: imagine someone who is confident, assertive and socially comfortable, then do what that person would do. When it works, keep doing it; when it doesn’t, consider why not and correct. Eye contact, firm handshake, smile, sense of humor, concern for others – these can all be effectively simulated.
It occurs to me that for someone who is basically aloof and solitary, I’ve put a lot of effort into getting people to pay attention to me. That required me paying attention to them. I hope this helps.
@Hambeast – nix the “giving it to a German friend” idea please! Most Germans are ashamed of and rather touchy about that bit of their history.
Me, I’d bin it. What I did with Grandad’s souvenirs of the War, anyroad (those that didn’t require the bomb squad – he had a couple grenades in the loft. That were fun.).
I don’t think the Luftwaffe were all terrible people, unlike the SS and Gestapo. I suspect a lot of them were trying to protect their families as best they could. Also, if you joined the Luftwaffe at 18 in 1942, that means you were 9 when Hitler came to power and the propaganda started.
I’d still find a Luftwaffe dagger creepy, and I suggest a museum, but it’s not like SS regalia.
@Hambeast and @Sheila
Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it. I think I’ve shared this with Mammotheers in other threads, but my grandfather served in the Luftwaffe; he was drafted into the military in his early 20s and served in Italy as a signalman teaching the Italians how to use the German radios. He resented the Nazis for what he had to experience, and for the loss of his university education. He was grateful when he was captured by the British; I remember my father telling me that after the German front collapsed, he fled west from a German field hospital, only moving at night to evade snipers and hoping not to be taken by the Soviets. He learned English from the Brits as a POW (I remember there was always a little British finery mixed with that harsh German accent of his). After my father and his brother were born in Berlin, my grandfather ultimately left Germany in 1957 for Canada (he considered Sweden, Britain and the US for a new home before deciding on Toronto). As a symbolic break, on the boat ride over, he threw his Iron Cross 2nd Class into the Atlantic.
I still have some extended family left in Halle, but they’re pretty far removed. My grandfather worked as an electrician all over Ontario, spending long periods of time away from Toronto (that must have been hard on my dad). He retired to Sault Ste. Marie and passed way in April of 1999 (I remember because it was the week of the Columbine massacre). His sister actually still lives in the Soo (she was 12 years younger than him). I really do need to go back up there at some point.
Anyway, the TL;DR is that yeah, plenty of Germans who were drafted were resentful of the Nazi party and all the crap they put the German youth through. I doubt they’d be appreciative of Nazi memorabilia than they would be DDR memorabilia (Halle was behind the Iron Curtain).
@Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
I remember Nazi artifacts being discussed in a thread months ago, specifically swastica flags. The thing is, they’re not uncommon, by any means. So many GIs brought ‘souvenirs’ back with them.
I myself have a Nazi flag, or more properly, bunting. It was my mother’s, and she happened to get it from an older man who’d served in WW2. It’s an interesting piece of history; that’s my only reason for holding onto it.
My spouse would really rather I toss it. His father was a young Dutch boy at the time of the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands, and his entire large family suffered for it.
I don’t know if the dagger you have has any monetary or historical value from the point of view of a museum. My guess is, it doesn’t.
Catalpa – I agree; I definitely don’t want it in my house*! I did suggest the museum idea; Husbeast kind of waved that off as being something that most museums probably already have, which suggested to me that he was reluctant to go that route. I don’t understand why but will ask.
Shadowplay – If it were up to me, I’d bin it in a hot second but it’s not mine. It’s not even Husbeast’s at this point. I’ll pass on the tidbit about Germans being touchy about Nazi paraphernalia. I didn’t even know his friend was German since he speaks English with no trace of an accent, but according to Husbeast, he was raised in a German orphanage. I think he’s in his 30s now (my best guess, but I’d starve guessing ages and weights at the carnival!)
In happier news, I JUST NOW (as in the doorbell rang while I was typing this) received Katz’s book on my doorstep! I’m so stoked to start reading it!!
*But I’d keep it** in a corner of the garage before I let it go to someone else who might sell it to an actual Nazi, neonazi, or other Nazi-adjacent type.
**Buried under a bunch of other stuff. Which we have plenty of. e_e
Umpteenth-ing the “IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!” idea. As for whether your local museums are over-saturated with Third Reich paraphernalia….well, you can’t know until you ask, right?
Weighing in on the whole gun control thing. I’m a limey brit so this is hypothetical, but I would be tempted to buy a gun if I lived in the USA.
Not a pink one as a gun is a serious thing and should look serious and dangerous, never like a toy. For safety’s sake as much as anything else.
I put this shameful desire down to cultural influences; computer games, films, books and the news making the USA seem like a dangerous crime filled gangland that can only get worse, never better. Big things always fall apart in the end, America is the ultimate Big Thing. The narrative framework of the US seems to demand armed protagonists.
None of that is logical. Statistics suggest I would shoot myself accidentally/on purpose and this would be the only time the gun had any function beyond putting holes in targets. Britain’s gun laws keep us safe from ourselves.
America’s cultural narrative is dangerous, and seductively so.
Heads up for a futile shouting-into-the-void post; just loaded a YouTube video today that started with an ad that basically said, “Hey guess what, gun control laws won’t work so the solution is to just not try to tackle the issue at all I guess!”
Well, scratch that. It suggested that gun laws couldn’t effectively remove guns from bad guys while letting good guys keep theirs, therefore anyone critical of America’s gun culture should just shut up. I’d imagine someone actually critical of our gun culture would point out that the fact so many people seem to wholeheartedly believe in the wildly oversimplified “bad guys vs. good guys” argument is a huge fucking part of the problem right there but WHAT DO I KNOW.
That argument would piss me off any day, but the timing makes it worse. And what the actual hell did I watch that earned me that kind of advertising, anyway?
…and Broadly just fired Mitchell Sunderland. Due to the stellar reporting by Buzzfeed on the rise of Milo.
Lay down with dogs and all that.
Bad guys/good guys how does one tell the difference? That’s what I mean by cultural narrative. Culture generally presents us with obvious stereotypes but real life is almost never that simple.
@misophistry
I wonder about this. The whole self-defence argument is pretty common, but I wonder how useful guns are for such a thing.
Do people who are going to assault/rob/rape someone telegraph their attentions early enough and often enough for the would-be victim to draw a gun? Are occupied houses broken into frequently?
A bit of lazy googling gives rise to stats like 12000 firearm homicides in 2015, of which 360 were justifiable, eg. defence of self or others, but that doesn’t say anything about people who were injured or surrendered.
There are plenty of ways that owning a gun makes you less safe. I wonder how much of a benefit they could actually be. You can get reasonably small taser guns these days at least, which would have some of the upsides with fewer of the downsides, perhaps…
@Hambeast
I say wrap it up and store it in a box that reads “Stuff from Old Nazis who were Defeated Because Nazis are Losers”. Put it in a corner and forget about it. Treat it like you would treat any junk you and Husbeast (love the name, BTW) inherit that don’t want but can’t throw away.
misophistry – I’ve lived in the US all my life, did 8 years in the USAF, had to train on and fire both assault rifles and handguns. It didn’t make me feel powerful nor did it make me feel intimidated. I wouldn’t own one simply because I don’t think I’d ever be able to fire it at anyone and target shooting and hunting don’t interest me in the least.
Then again, whenever military service is mentioned, I think the gun thing is frequently assumed. At least in my experience it is; I get asked what kind of guns I have a fair amount.
That being said, I don’t think it’s a bad thing to know how to *safely* use firearms because that knowledge can be useful and help keep everyone safer. Clueless people and guns (especially folks afraid of guns) are a bad mix.
Dimmy – Right you are! That discussion will be had. I may even look into it myself.
@Pie
Respectfully, you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. It’s not statistics, it’s individuals, so the questions should be:
Do people who are going to assault/rob/rape someone telegraph their attentions early enough and often enough for the would-be victim to draw a gun?
Am I in a situation where someone could assault, rob or rape me? If yes (due to whatever circumstances – journey home, vindictive ex, whatever) is a weapon the best option for me? (Frequently it’s not, for the very reason you said – not enough warning. However, that decision has to be by the individual.)
Are occupied houses broken into frequently?
Is my house likely to be broken into when I am home? If someone does, how easily can I escape? How long do I need to evade them until the police arrive if I can’t escape? (Again, questions who’s answers are specific to the individual and their location. A person with mobility issues is going to have different needs than someone without.)
Trying my best to skim through reading these pages !!
But I noticed Laci Green was mentioned as being a traitor/selling out? What happened? (I know of her RP video but I haven’t watched it, assuming it was just her generally going over it) Used to love her Sex positive stuff
@Pie
I say I’d be tempted, but not for any logical reason.
It doesn’t really make much sense. Burglaries in Britain are routinely carried out by unarmed robbers. The occupant, should they be home and awake, have a whole house full of blunt objects and a kitchen full of knives at their disposal. Not surprisingly most break-ins occur when the occupants are out. The law is squeamish about home defence so don’t get carried away with that kitchen knife!
Muggings and assaults are still dangerous, but vastly less so with neither party being armed with a gun.
I definitely feel safer under UK gun law, and that is my point I suppose. If I lived in the USA I would not feel so safe and would be tempted to join the arms race as it were.
But that would be a mistake made through fear, according to the statistics.
…and Andy Signore has been suspended by Defy Media for sexual harrassment. Holy moley.
@Pie
You’re right…those who want to do you harm HAVE THE DROP ON YOU. Merely owning a gun, isn’t going to keep anyone safe. Personally, I think owning guns gives a certain type of person a false sense of power.
@misophistry
I read a book about a year ago titled ‘Good Guys With Guns’, by Angela Stroud. It’s a scholarly examination of the appeal of concealed carry to some Americans. Well, I was just so very disgusted by the paranoid, assholish attitudes of these racist m’fers profiled in this book, that I resolved to NEVER purchase a gun. For example, this jerk actually pulled a gun on another driver for driving too slowly! Or, what he believed, in his supreme wisdom, to be driving too slowly. This crap has to be read to be believed.
My own family all went out and bought handguns because they believed that the LIBRULS WERE GONNA TERK THEIR GUNZ. So, better get ’em while the getting’s good!
My sister keeps her loaded handgun in a boot in her bedroom closet. Never mind that she lives in a quiet, middle-class community, with an extremely low crime rate.
I WISH the US could emulate the UK in regards to their attitudes and laws where guns are concerned.
@ misophistry
Things changed a bit after the controversy over those cases where people were jailed for using force against burglars.
So now, if you are attacked in a dwelling, the ‘reasonable force’ element has been modified and you should only be prosecuted if you use grossly disproportionate force.
Don’t care what anyone else says: I’m a female-presenting person living alone, and I’m getting a shotgun as soon as I have the cash for it. I’ve never lived alone without a gun in the house, but I sold my shotgun for cash back when I wasn’t living alone and I needed cash. Now I need a new one and I’m going to get one.
The sound of a shell being chambered in a pump-action shotgun is loud and impossible to mistake for anything else. It’s like a rattlesnake rattling its tail – it says don’t fuck with me. I feel like I need a shotgun the same way I need a motion-detecting front door light, and I don’t mind saying it.
There is no such thing as a harmless incel. Incels hate women. They want us enslaved, dead, or both. They don’t see us as human and see us as lesser than animals even. One does not get into a mindset where one believes that not having sex is something thrust upon them involuntarily without toxicity and entitlement.
@ Weirwoodtreehugger,
Sorry to hear of your sinus issues, I have bad allergies and put the AC on. You might try putting hot towels on the face too.
Now my friend here, o_0, this is the one who was sick and I have been helping her lately, helping because she was bad sick and probably should’ve been in the hospital. This is the the woman who got bit up by a poisonous or disease carrying bug.
Bit in the face. It was really, really, bad. This did affect the sinuses also. I will spare you the grisly details. She says “hot towels”.
Keep your mouth clean too, you can rinse with salt water or a mouthwash like Listerine. Do you have any capped teeth? Tara has capped teeth and I told her, because I do too, – you can get an infection under the caps.
Don’t tell me this. Yeah, but, is a thing. Don’t shoot the messenger. Get mouthwash.
The pink gun….
Reminded me of something else. T has a lava lamp like this, in same colors, this one here –
https://www.ebay.com/i/252610599384?chn=ps&dispItem=1
I like this better than the gun π I bought it for her too, as a little “get well” gift. At the Goodwill store where it was $4 and mostly because she seriously looked like she was going to pass out.
We went there to look for candles, she spied this thing, walks up to me holding it, wondering whether to get it, looks at me and says: I feel really sick. And did not look good.
And I’m like shit, what do I do? Do not pass out here, you could hit your head, I can catch you but I’d have to notice and jump quick, and if you pass out here they’ll call 911 and for not wanting to go to a doc you will then wind up in the hospital…
I said: Hold on to the cart. And let’s just go, get the lava lamp, I’ll pay for it. So this was like, ah, for the health? It’s better than the gun, and was like a health improver rather than something that will yanno, – kill you. Same colors, better for the health π
She has it in her kitchen π
Which is why I mention this too. I am often at a loss for what to say about these “manosphere” men, I have encountered these types, I was married to one.
But it wasn’t blatantly obvious. And not, ah, “full on” with it. This is what has scared me away from all men, how can you know what they are really like?
Tara said, about the lava lamp in the kitchen, if her exH saw that he’d be none too pleased or complain that a thing like that does not belong in the kitchen.
Many seem to want to make you into a Stepford Wife.
Yikes.
Oh and another thing I remembered, about cloning up to the borg –
I saw an advert, I will try to find it –
Did, and there’s too much, do not want to put links.
You can just search “Gavin McInnes and Get Off My Lawn”.
From a glance alone it looks like he’s dressed like 50s Dad, and or D Fens, got his hair greased up and everything.
My eyes are rolling, I need another beer.