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"ethics" /pol/ alt-lite alt-right andrew anglin anime nazis anti-Semitism daily stormer entitled babies gab grandiosity homophobia hypocrisy infighting irony alert literal nazis lying liars memes men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny playing the victim vox day

Vox Day thinks lying is great “persuasion.” Unless people are lying about him.

Vox cries moar

By David Futrelle

The last time we checked in on the execrable racist fantasy author Theodore “Vox Day” Beale, he was urging his followers to smear leftists by posting fake memes, ostensibly from AntiFa activists, advocating domestic violence against women and children. This kind of dishonesty, he proclaimed, was a particularly “effective” form of “persuasion” that only “spergs” could possibly oppose.

But it turns out that Mr. Day doesn’t admire lying quite so much when people are lying about him.

In recent days, Vox has launched an all-out war on Gab, the “free speech” Twitter alternative that’s become something of a haven for shitlords and Nazis. Vox is angry, you see, that Gab’s admins won’t take down a handful of comments smearing him as a pedophile, apparently posted by several Daily Stormer fans who don’t think Vox is enough of a Nazi to hang with the alt-right.

Gab’s refusal to delete these comments, Vox declared in a post a couple of days ago, makes the site “knowingly complicit in publishing these false, malicious, and defamatory statements.” And so he threatened to unleash his “flying monkey” squad to dox the offending Gab commenters and to task his “Legal Legion of Evil” (no, that’s really what he calls them) with, well, whatever Legal Legions of Evil do.

“[T]he Legal Legion and I,” Vox announced in a followup post,

will be pursuing this matter until the defamation is removed and the @dantheman10, @GTKRWN, and @Fabian_Nazism are forced to answer for their defamatory actions.

In yet another post yesterday, Vox assures his readers that “I am not seeking to harm Gab” before going on to declare that, since “Gab has elected to act as an obstacle to [my] objectives … that obstacle will be removed.”

Vox, as you may have gathered by now, loves to monologue like a cartoon villain.

He’s also been enthusiastically accusing the “Daily Stormpoopers,” as he calls them, of an assortment of things that he is also guilty of. The “stormpoopers,” he rails,

cannot be trusted, ever, since deceit is literally the core of their instruction manual. Lying, exaggerating their influence, and shitting on the carpet of every online abode that welcomes them is the full extent of their accomplishments.

Projection ain’t just a river in Egypt.

Naturally, Vox’s many enemies on Gab have responded with some highly sophisticated arguments of their own. Like calling him “Vox Gay.”

Nixon · @NixonSlartlak 2 days After a long talk with my good pal, @voxday about how he's completely addicted to n---er and jewish semen... I've convinced him to change his name to Vox Gay.

卐 Hitler Did Nothing Wrong 卐 GAS the (((👃🏻))) · @gerbils 13 hours I never even heard of VOX GAY until all of this drama, he's the laughingstock of Gab.

And of course others have been doubling down on the pedophile accusations.

Tom · @h4rdm0us 13 hours Vox Day's wife is a c-nt, his mother is a whore, and he's a pedophile. Oh no don't sue!

GorillionJazz · @GorillionJazz 🏛 Politics · 44 minutes Vox Gay doesnt care about those things, just shekels and hide the fact that he is a child rapist

Rufus RIchards · @RufusRichards 16 hours Vox Day might not be a pedophile but his wife has the body of a 17 year old boy CREEPY

And then of course there are the memes, like this one, comparing Vox with the Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin.

Click for larger version

And this one, with Vox in a sort of time-out:

I’m sure it gets worse than this, but I really don’t want to spend any more time poking around on Gab to find out.

Today, Vox Day and Andrew Anglin took their ongoing slap fight to YouTube, ostensibly debating the merits of National Socialism for an hour on something called Reality Calls. I’m sure it was quite, er, informative, but I’m not going to watch it to find out.

This is one of those fights in which you hope all sides lose, big league.

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PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Here we go with “The Leo Show” again.

Time to change the channel.

@Alan, your link doesn’t work, even with the “g” added to “png”.

Am I doing something incorrectly?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ peevee

My lack of tech skills is so bad it’s probably contagious. But maybe a link to an article about it?

http://afropunk.com/2017/09/hanging-klansmen-art-installation-stuns-richmond-community-makes-powerful-point/

ETA: Yey!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

I think even the Neo-Nazi sites used to have moderation, didn’t they?

Well the Daily Stormer banned me. But I’m not sure that’s the point.

Do one of those ‘side by side’ comparisons of features you get with products or services for “real” Nazis and the alt-right. Stuff like “Wants a whites only society”; “Cool with genocide”; “Women as brood mares” etc.

Can you identify any category where there won’t be a tick in both columns?

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

@Alan,

Wow. WOW. That video was powerful!

ETA, your foray into the bowels of the Daily Stormer is one I’ll never forget.

Leo
Leo
3 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Yeah, as I said, it’s more attitude difference than idealogical. Even if it’s only that they don’t like each other’s uniforms.

Between some of the factions, I think there’s a difference between whether they’re more prone to ‘benevolent’ sexism, or openly hostile sexism, though of course, there’s a huge amount of overlap there. The Neo-Nazis bring out the rhetoric about a white woman’s place being in the home, the paternalistic type stuff, the red pillers don’t necessarily want as much to do with that. For channers, white children would be a distraction from video games if nothing else, and they’re more inclined to general misanthropy, though still from an ingroup/outgroup perspective, as well as vast amounts of targeted hate against women and minorities. There’s also the nerds Vs. the jocks stuff, unprepossessing as many Neo-Nazis look physically, they still hold ‘jocks’ as more an ideal, while channers are more inclined to sneer maybe? In the meme, Vox is framed as a ‘nerd’.

I think Stormfront used to have some moderation and attempts to prevent in-fighting, so on Gab without it…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ peevee

Wow. WOW. That video was powerful!

It is good isn’t it?

I have a weird relationship with art. More than a few of my friends are artists and I used to live in Hoxton; so I’m not unfamiliar with “Nathan Barley” style wankerism.

But if we subscribe to the thing that “Art should comfort the uncomforted and discomfort the comfortable” then hopefully that installation is ticking the box.

(If anyone wants a geeky discussion about the actual artistic merits of the piece, I’d be well up for that)

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

I think we should punch them all, regardless of their “attitude.”

Leo
Leo
3 years ago

@Kupo
Sure, but it’s to be hoped they might at least throw virtual punches at each other themselves!

@Alan
I wonder if the piece will have that effect of comforting the uncomforted? While the reversal is apparent, the association of such imagery with the murders of black people is so strong, it also calls that to mind, and it’s harder to focus on the piece’s intention through the horror of that recollection. Similarly if it was imagery of Nazis being gassed, it would recall the horror of the gas chambers. For me, looking at it, the emotional sense of shock at that, is conflicting somewhat with connection emotionally to the message of defiance and threat towards white supremacists. It’s a use of effigy as political protest, but even the material chosen also recalls the horrific hanging Obama effigy.

But then I also wasn’t really prepared for the image, as I followed the fist link which didn’t specify what it was as clearly. Those seeing it in context might also be unprepared, though, in which case depending on viewing angle it might take a moment to see what it was? It’s apparent from the front of the tree and the one selected has fairly high, wide branches so it can be seen, but if you saw a foot of one of the effigies from behind the other trees at more of a distance, maybe not.

One of the comments from the second link seems to feel similarly:
Lora Hudson · London, United Kingdom
I don’t like this image because, I still see my nubian Kings at the end of those ropes and even worse, I feel like we have dignified these awful racist murders with a response by reproducing these aimages? On another note, I get the sentiment the artist is portraying. “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander”?

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

Anti troll kitteh
comment image

Countdown to whinging about “””optics”””” 10…9…8…

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Sure, but it’s to be hoped they might at least throw virtual punches at each other themselves!

Nah, they’ve already been violent enough at us. We don’t need to wait for them to throw virtual punches at each other. We need to throw physical punches at them.

http://fin.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0808/moogles-funny-god-of-war-ff7-final-fantasy-seven-7-demotivational-poster-1218054980.jpg

Leo
Leo
3 years ago

@Kupo
Even if you’re going to do that, though, in-fighting among them as well may only help. If Pox even has any lawyers, which is doubtful, maybe legal scrutiny could mean a few less of them on the streets each time, either because they have to stay out of trouble more, or are no longer cooperating with each other? We can but hope.

Bobbie LobBomb
Bobbie LobBomb
3 years ago

@Pee Vee

Yup. The name of the game is “get them worked up, play the ‘reasoned moderate’, erode opposition support, weaken the opposition’. It’s easy to do when you you’re not the one whose fate is on the line, but the other person’s is. Little things can needle them, make ’em mad, and when you whip ’em up, people passing by only sees calm and seething. And our biases favor calm. Works in their favor, and they’re good at it.

cornychips
cornychips
3 years ago

re: leo

-__-

ugh. prelude to round two i guess. who wants to tangle with such tediom?

Bobbie LobBomb
Bobbie LobBomb
3 years ago

And the sad thing is… I know even my having responding to him gives him the platform to play the reasoned middle way. I’m not sure I should have said anything at all, but I was pulled in for a bit last week and I just hope it’s clear to people what’s been played at. “Go to sleep, nothing to worry over” has its appeal, but its exactly the wrong thing and feels like it needs calling out? I dunno.

BD
BD
3 years ago

The site “Sadly, No” used to call him Pox Spray.

Fitting.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

I wonder if the piece will have that effect of comforting the uncomforted? blah blah blah

It’s telling that your first instinct is to speculate what minority people might think instead of fucking asking.

Even if you’re going to do that, though, in-fighting among them as well may only help.

Their online quibbles don’t stop any of the involved subgroups from throwing the first punch, so no, it doesn’t help.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Bobbie LobBomb, yep. What is mystifying to me is why they think they’re not transparent. We could build a frame around them and use them as a window…

@Alan, obviously, (to me) this art is meant to make one think…and to never let history repeat itself, as the cretins who espouce this shit inevitably want.

Also obvious are the ones who want these kinds of installations to go away because they’re firmly in the fallacious “both sides!” mindset that is indicative of their tacit agreement with *some* of the alt-right ideas without wanting to get called out on their problematic thoughts.

Leo
Leo
3 years ago

@Bobbie LobBomb
Lots of people here are calm, if you think that’s essential to points getting across, which I don’t think is always the case, it depends. Alan Robertshaw was calm, and I agreed with him about the ideology, because this is a reasoned and overall friendly discussion, not anyone playing a reasoned moderate. Kupo said: ‘I think we should punch them all, regardless of their “attitude”” fairly calmly, and I responded with ‘Sure’, and the hope that this Vox and Gab in-fighting would help. If that’s not good enough for you nothing I say will be – maybe just give me a chance, please?

@Policy of Madness
Absolutely did not intend to speculate about how they felt, which is why I quoted one of the comments from the link. I put a question mark because I wondered if black people would necessarily find it comforting rather than was saying they wouldn’t, though I should also have said that evidently some are encouraged by it, I’m sorry for not saying so clearly. That was intended as an opportunity for minorities to answer the question, though again, apologies for being unclear. Then I went on to talk about how I personally felt about the imagery. I think it can be hard, though worth doing, for the oppressed to turn the oppressors’ imagery against them, as the oppression is still so vivid and present, and the oppressor still the more powerful. Reclaiming a slur can still hurt, for instance, and for the person doing so, the decision to reclaim can be because of that as well as despite it.

So, what do minorities think about the piece?

Their online quibbles don’t stop any of the involved subgroups from throwing the first punch, so no, it doesn’t help.

Yes, you’re right it doesn’t stop them doing that, I just hope they might not rally together as much, if there really was more division among them.

Bobbie La Bomb
Bobbie La Bomb
3 years ago

@Pee Vee
I suspect that it doesn’t bother them that we can see through it because we’re the means, not the ends. It’s not us they’re gonna convert.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

Absolutely did not intend to speculate about how they felt

Intentions are not magic.

Then I went on to talk about how I personally felt about the imagery.

Oh, so your little essay about the shocking nature of the art detracting from its message was all about you? What a surprise.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Leo. Watch the video. Then reassess.

Bobbie La Bomb
Bobbie La Bomb
3 years ago

Re: Leo
Oh, the irony.
Bobbie Out.

Leo
Leo
3 years ago

Intentions are not magic.

That’s why I said sorry.

I thought it would be Ok to say what I thought about the piece since Alan did and had asked. I’m sorry if I overstepped. I’m not sure the shocking nature of it simply detracts from the message, as being reminded visually of the horrific nature of the KKK’s murders also serves to drive home exactly why this statement is being made. I do wish I could get the images of photographs of lynchings out of my head now -I have OCD so it’s very difficult, distressing images flash up a lot-, though, as with images of the holocaust, I almost wish I’d never seen any, but maybe it’s necessary.

@PeeVee
Ok, I will later, I didn’t feel up to it before, sorry.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

In fairness I did invite a discussion about the piece. And “What might black people think about it?” is a legitimate question.

We do know though what at least one black person thinks, Erin White, the author of the article.

So whilst it’s an issue that can be examined, there’s relatively simple groundwork that could produce some datapoints before doing so.

Bobbie La Bomb
Bobbie La Bomb
3 years ago

As for the piece itself, as an art piece…. On the one hand, it seems rather kitch (in every sense), and very obvious if you will. On the other hand, the fact that it dances on the line between the grotesque and the absurd makes one inherently grapple with the notion of lynching, and in that sense it works well. I just… I dunno how I feel about it. But I’ve been pondering it for a while now, and I think that’s the point.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

Yep, avoiding this. Except to say that, last I heard, Leo is a she. Pronouns used for her here are a bit all over the place. Don’t look like she much minds, but it’s making my eye twitch…

*salutes smartly, runs away, escapes to some other thread, any other thread*

Kettle
Kettle
3 years ago

Oh God they all deserve each other it’s marvelous

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

Okay, somebody had to actually sit down and draw that goofy meme of the beefy Anglin. I’ve drawn my fair share of beefy guys, but never in service of petty internet spats drizzled in white supremacy. What kind of infantile mind would actually minutes out of their life to create that eyesore? Does that mind ever stop for a second and think “wait, am I doing something stupid that speaks of a life ill-used?” I’m thinkin’ not.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Gussie Jives, that meme is a template, not specific to Anglin. It’s a chan trope juxtaposing “dork:cool dood” and is used all over the place. The dorks’ negative attributes are always exaggerated to be incredibly nitpicky, and the cool dood’s positive attributes are always equally silly. It’s meant to mock both groups, denigrating the positive traits of the latter and emphasizing the negative traits of the latter. In other words, it’s just more nonsense from 4chan about how everything is garbage, and how they’re the wisest for saying so. Centrist BS.

(That said, it’s always the conservative, authoritarian, right-wing side that’s the cool dood, and while they mock with their statements about him, they still f’n believe it. Because that’s how brains work. So yeah, they’re pretty much revealing their biases right out in the open, too.)