By David Futrelle
The “Incel” cult not only encourages so-called “involuntarily celibate” men to hate and blame women; it also teaches these men to hate themselves, obsessing endlessly over alleged physical flaws and other imaginary impediments that they think make them undateable and fundamentally unlovable.
One of the most insidious ways in which the Incel cult harms those in it is by discouraging clearly depressed men from seeking the psychological and psychiatric help it is clear so many of them desperately need.
Some incels dismiss therapy and medication as frauds, convinced that nothing will work for them. This is self-defeating but at least understandable. Therapy is hard work, and meds. while generally effective in helping most people, aren’t a panacea, and when you’re deeply depressed it’s hard to believe anything will help.
But there are plenty of incels who reject therapy and meds not because they think they won’t work, but because they’re afraid they will. These deeply miserable men don’t want to be cured of their misery because they don’t believe they deserve to be happy. Or even to live.
In a recent post on the Incels subreddit, someone calling himself StarvedOfHumanTouch argues bluntly that “[t]reating incels for depression should be illegal.”
“Some anti depressants and anti psychotics are too fucking effective,” he writes.
They have the ability to turn even the most suicidally depressed men into tax contributing good goys.
So far, if we ignore the not-too-subtle hint of anti-Semitism at the end there, StarvedOfHumanTouch is rehashing an old and silly argument put forth by some social critics who wrongly think that antidepressants turn everyone into “shiny happy” conformists. But his argument quickly gets much darker.
Depression like all other state of minds has a purpose. It is meant to hurt, weaken, and ultimately kill you. Trimming the fat from society so to speak. It is in the benefit of all to let the weak and disabled die off.
He’s including himself in this group.
So why keep us around? Is it compassion? Sadism? Or are we just a buffer to keep around to take the blow when shit hits the fan in society every other decade?
As far as I can figure out the logic here, StarvedOfHumanTouch apparently think that “normies” conspire to keep incels and other alleged “undesirables” around as, I guess, designated sufferers when crises roll around. It doesn’t make much sense to me either.
But StarvedOfHumanTouch’s fellow incels seem to have little trouble understanding what he’s getting at.
“[W]e subhumans exist so chads and staceys can feel better about themselves that they arent subhuman like us,” writes PM_ME_STRIPPERS.
“Yes, and conning them into “therapy” should also be a stoneable offense,” adds Thizizwhyimincel,” whose flair for the subreddit suggests that his “[m]other deserves to be raped by ISIS.”
Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.
3K-caloriespurple-pilled non-incel is of the opinion that”letting people suffer is [un]acceptable.” But instead of suggesting that sufferers get treatment to ease their suffering, he thinks that “euthanasia should be legalized for people with severe depression or mental issues.”
As someone who has struggled with depression for decades now, I can tell you that this sort of bullshit is the last thing any depressed person needs to hear. Treatment is available; meds help. Incel is, as I’ve said many times before, poison. It makes everyone it touches worse off. It’s suicide fuel.
As somone who suffers from suicidal ideation and depression, this is a sad, sad man. This rhetoric is incredibly dangerous in a society that discourages therapy, and the expression of any emotion that isn’t happiness. He needs to seek therapy himself.
I’m also a bit peeved that he says that the “sick and depressed should die off”
Many historical figures had depression and other mental illnesses. I guess he wants Van Gogh to die off too.
Sidenote: It’s very obvious that he hates himself, leading him to write this sad, sad post.
P:S: If you didn’t catch the sarcasm when I repeated sad twice, look again. On a second note, this disturbs me. Dude seriously needs help.
IgnoreSandra,
Well, tbh, I’d prolly not be able to stay up until midnight anymore, anyhow. I haven’t in years, lol.
But I cannot think if a better way to spend a “Christmas” than to take in a Halloween show with y’all. I want.
Yep! And, at least in my case, that thing to work on is letting go. It took me years cooped up inside to figure out that, if I’m gonna be alone, might as well get to know myself a little better. Didn’t become ‘objectively’ less ugly than before, but, turns out, I can be damn charming and rather adorable when I stop hating myself 😀
I’m way more into the ‘think I look fucking cute’ end of things these days, but that’s mainly @Dali regulating my self esteem <3
Aspec means ace/aro spectrum. Some people (bigoted assholes) invented the idea that it was stolen from autistic people. In the real world, ace folks started using ‘on the spectrum’, which is not cool, and autistics actually suggested we use aspec instead. TLDR, it’s a whole thing. On the other spec, I’ve been told I might be autistic. Not sure myself, but I’m, for shameful lack of a better turn of phrase, entertaining the possibility. Also, hey, soul sista! The more a folks the merrier
Absolutely. Never actually wanted sex or a romantic partner, but everyone has to, right? Even now I’ve got a girlfriend, the expectations don’t go away or hurt less…
*hugs aplenty*
People tell me I’m handsome. I hate it, but they do it anyway 😛 And, yeah, I’m glad I didn’t date when I was younger. I was definitely not ready for it, barely am now. Incels are like every evil villain in every fantasy movie. Obsessed with a power, an object, a desire they can’t possibly control. And they think the answer to that is to up the control. To tighten their grip on the mcguffin, instead of reevaluating the obsession itself. And it’s so tiring to be subjected to it. And make no mistake, incels, calling my orientation ‘ugly’ is subjecting me to your bullshit ?
I like to think of them as having already collapsed in on themselves and are now a screaming black hole from which no light escapes
http://i.imgur.com/3Af5hBB.jpg
Rocky Horror was a big thing with the theatre nerd subset of the nerds I associated with on the Internet in the early 2000nds. It seemed to be fun for them, but there always seemed, to me, to be certain undercurrents of expectations and status-seeking that made me uncomfortable, back then.
dcfcfan1, I don’t know if you’re sincere or just trolling, but regardless, you gotta lay off the “ugly” stuff or I’ll have to ban you.
I sometimes wonder why the self loathing doesn’t make them want to change. I’ve heard people say, “What if the meds turn me into a different person?” Well, if you hate yourself, maybe the person they turn you into will suck less?
To be fair, one of the nefarious features of depression as I experienced it was to convince you that the entire world was against you and that there was no point. If that holds true then by the same twisted logic, what is the point of changing yourself and trying to get better? If the world hates you then you get stuck either hating yourself or hating the world back. Go with either long enough and the likelihood of getting better becomes more and more slight. You either destroy yourself or destroy the world.
Me too. The cat who I’ve really known for less than three days is already showing her belly to me. Animals can generally sense who to trust, and people are the same way.
Some folks can hide being a bad idea to interact with, but most people tell you who they are in one way or another, and someone who hates themself is eventually gonna lash out at others.
I have many things I need to work on, and some things – paranoia, anxiety – that have progressed too far to truly fix. One of my bigger issues is that I simply can’t forgive or forget. It just isn’t in my nature anymore.
Ah. I’m in the demi part of the ace/aro spectrum. I haven’t sorted out if that’s my natural state, it’s the result of my traumas, or its being influenced by my hormones. Either way, when I was asked to introduce myself to the new people who are joining the rocky cast, I told them my sign was “No Soliciting”.
Ehh. I have felt desire for sex and romance, with specific people in specific situations. But not the generalized desire for all women I felt was expected of me, with commitment to a single woman for an abominable period of time dealing with children. The expectation does come back around and smack me sometimes, too.
Honestly, I feel like I’m still a teenager. That those years have continued into my 20s. I wasn’t really me when I was 15 and 16, you know? So now I’m dealing with the stuff I didn’t deal with then. And that includes not being ready for any sort of thing, and a bunch of stuff women my age usually had a chance to address in high school.
Sounds like every abusive relationship I’ve ever been in. Tighten your grip, but I am the dragon. And one day I will swallow you whole.
That’s movies and media, but media influences how we think, and there’s truth to the idea that the people will only put up with so much.
But that darkness still reaches out and affects the world around it. It can’t have completely collapsed. It still needs a good swift kick to help it along.
Zack, for me it was more, “I suck, maybe the world won’t hate me if I suck less.”
Of course the reality for me was, I didn’t change, I was still weird, introverted, and out of place in the world, I was just able to function better with all of that.
I also don’t think fixing incel depression would fix incels. There was a study I read like a hundred years ago when I was in college. People were given an easy logic puzzle and after solving it asked to record their feelings. Women tended to talk about how the puzzle was easy, men talked about how great and smart they were for solving the puzzle. Next they were given and extremely difficult puzzle and then asked their feelings about it. Women talked about how they sucked and that’s why they struggled, men tended to talk about how the puzzle was too hard. It’s the way we socialize men that leads to bullshit like this, women are taught that if we fail it’s because we suck, men are taught that if they fail it’s because the system is rigged. Given male privilege and entitlement coupled with teaching men that if they fail it’s not them seems like the perfect storm to create incels.
All that being said, I’m not reaching out to those toxic shits, I am not the med-fairy *or* the goddess of unconditional positive regard.
Sorry if my comments were out of line and if I offended you guys
Reading the posters comments on here, wow, some of the stuff that you guys had to go through
Makes these INCELS more annoying, when they think not getting your dick wet is like the worst thing in the world. News for them, it isnt.
Respect to people here for being open about their situation and past and seeking help
Animals just think I’m weird…
Troof!
Trying to do things, positive things, outside of your nature is noble but can be damaging. Doesn’t make ‘doing the (nebulously) good thing’ less attractive. I forgive and forget too easy. It’s a problem. I can laugh and joke and be intimate (general sense of the term) with people I actively hate, cos the rage leaves in the moment. Then I feel bad about not telling em to fuck off. See: my family. Fuck, I need outta this house 😛
All equally valid! And I’m demi(ish) too. I’m pretty sure I’ve always been aspec, but I’m equally sure I used to be more white side than I am now. I’m less likely to be attracted to people (equally able to find people attractive) than before, and my sex aversion/repulsion is relatively new. Probably my puberty hormone soup evening out or something
*cackles*
I feel that. I’ve been sexually attracted to 3 people in my young life. Lotta pretty people, but I need significantly more than that, you understand. And commitment, don’t get me started. So, one of my 1st, unheeded, clues that I’m aspec was that, as a kid, I literally couldn’t imagine myself in a monogamous relationship. Either my partner was poly (didn’t have the word at the time) or we were broken up. I only need or want 1 person, but I can’t be with someone who only wants to be with me. A case of romance aversion, I reckon. And, yeah, no kids. Kids definitely like me, but I’m good, thanks
Maybe you’ve seen it, but there’s a tweet meme thing going around that gay/queer/trans culture is teenagerdom for people who were never allowed to be teenagers. Read this if you’ve the time, I imagine you’ll have a lotta ‘^THIS’ while you do 🙂
https://mobile.twitter.com/AnaMardoll/status/904359192898785280
Know thyself <3
Deep as fuuuck!
I like you, this is fun!!! 😀
And my link won’t post and my comment disappears. One more time, and I’m giving up
Animals just think I’m weird…
Troof!
Trying to do things, positive things, outside of your nature is noble but can be damaging. Doesn’t make ‘doing the (nebulously) good thing’ less attractive. I forgive and forget too easy. It’s a problem. I can laugh and joke and be intimate (general sense of the term) with people I actively hate, cos the rage leaves in the moment. Then I feel bad about not telling em to fuck off. See: my family. Fuck, I need outta this house 😛
All equally valid! And I’m demi(ish) too. I’m pretty sure I’ve always been aspec, but I’m equally sure I used to be more white side than I am now. I’m less likely to be attracted to people (equally able to find people attractive) than before, and my sex aversion/repulsion is relatively new. Probably my puberty hormone soup evening out or something
*cackles*
I feel that. I’ve been sexually attracted to 3 people in my young life. Lotta pretty people, but I need significantly more than that, you understand. And commitment, don’t get me started. So, one of my 1st, unheeded, clues that I’m aspec was that, as a kid, I literally couldn’t imagine myself in a monogamous relationship. Either my partner was poly (didn’t have the word at the time) or we were broken up. I only need or want 1 person, but I can’t be with someone who only wants to be with me. A case of romance aversion, I reckon. And, yeah, no kids. Kids definitely like me, but I’m good, thanks
Maybe you’ve seen it, but there’s a tweet meme thing going around that gay/queer/trans culture is teenagerdom for people who were never allowed to be teenagers. Read this if you’ve the time, I imagine you’ll have a lotta ‘^THIS’ while you do 🙂
https://mobile.twitter.com/AnaMardoll/status/904359192898785280
Know thyself <3
Deep as fuuuck!
I like you, this is fun!!! 😀
I was introduced to RHPS in the summer of 1978, before my senior year of high school, through the LGB* youth group I was in. Introduced my younger sister to it a few months later.
She ran with it – introduced her school friends, organized a shadowcast, even got a Time Warp act into the school talent show. In retrospect, it really helped her let her freak flag fly. I was mainstream in comparison, despite being the first out student in school history.
*This was before the T was added.
There is no “natural state”, my duck. You are exactly the person you are right now. It’s turtles, all the way down <3
@Axecalibur
I’m the opposite. I haven’t spoken with my brother in six years because he was an abusive jackass to me and came back with a fake apology. “I’m sorry if you were offended” is not an apology. So I refused to accept it, and though he’s tried to speak with me since I simply don’t speak with him, and won’t until he has a genuine apology for me, something that makes me think there’s at least a 1% chance he won’t go right back to being a narcissistic abuser.
When I was 15 – 17, I could want to be with someone so badly it would hurt, though I never quite knew what being in a relationship would mean or what people in relationships even do. I honestly had a lot of the same questions about friendships.
That was my autism acting, needing a routine to understand, a code to operate by and being unable to contemplate not having a set of personal rules to govern my actions. I still can’t deal with that. Doing new things is always really hard for me for that reason. The first few times I went to parties were simply hellish, especially since I’d often get overstimulated.
I’ve been attracted to more people than that. But for me it’s always been, I start thinking of a person as a friend and only then do I want to bone them. I’m still like that. At any given time, I have a few dozen people I low-key want to have sex with, but at the same time the concept of sex terrifies me because it’s not something you can have codes of conduct for and because intimacy and vulnerability are close enough to the same thing.
I hadn’t seen it! Though I had seen the tweet where the guy was talking about gay teenage years are in their thirties. That’s definitely happening with me. I’m trying to sort out my style and stuff.
Um, please don’t say that like that. One of my abusers used to say that when I got a little fighty.
@Robert Walker-Smith
I think I said earlier that I’m using RHPS to work on my body issues, but I didn’t join a shadowcast for that reason. I joined a shadowcast because I went to something like 15 shows in increasingly beautiful dresses and some of the cast members engaged me and chatted with me and eventually shoved an application in my hand. So I panicked, tried to tally reasons for and not to, panicked again, and flipped a coin.
So I joined a shadowcast, and it has been infuriating and glorious at the same time.
@Scildfreja
And even if there was, what matters is who I am now.
@Sandra
I hear you so much on this.
We have a local theater that does them every Friday.
@Sandra
I admire that strength in people. Thing is, my brother’s the only local ‘friend’ I have. So, if I want the basest of human interaction, it’s him and/or mom. Whom I’ve recently come to utterly despise. But, while I’m stuck under the same roof, coping mechanisms…
I still don’t know. Dali had to explain to me what dating is and that we’d been doing it for weeks up to that point 😀
Fear of physical pain, rejection, or failure. Keeps me in my sheltered, ascetic bubble. For me, doing the thing is almost never that bad, contemplating the thing is always far worse. Never been to a real party, likely never will
Yep! But also only after they’ve made moves. Then it clicks, ah ha moment, and I’m twiterpated 🙂
I don’t know a few dozen people 😛
Right? I mean, we do have some explicit codes of confuct in my relationship, but you can’t account for everything and it’s still scary
Ah! My mistake. I’m sorry. For everything, ya know? Sympathies…
@Dalillama
We do like 11 pm every other Friday, and bar shows some saturdays a little earlier. Close to midnight, but not quite.
@Axecalibur
It was like that for me for years. My family lives in the ass-end of nowhere, and it’s half an hour or longer to anywhere worth being. So I could talk to my mom, brother, dad, or possibly my sisters if they were around.
I was incredibly fortunate enough to be able to go away to college at age 20. I basically had to work through my social issues really quickly.
One of my bigger issues with being abused and neglected and mistreated by many different people through my life is that I’ve developed a bit of paranoia. Except it doesn’t feel like paranoia. Paranoia is when you’re overly concerned about hostile action, but it feels like I’m appropriately concerned about hostile action but that doesn’t stop me from refusing to consider re-learning forgiveness or forgetfulness.
I’m totally clueless. Maybe I’ll just stay away from stuff like that forever or so.
I see. Sometimes your own anxieties are a problem. I deal with that to some degree, but for me the worst time is always the first one. It gets easier once I can start to deconstruct what’s going on and remind myself of all the individual components. That’s one of the reasons I completely freeze when someone’s injured. I have problems processing that in a problem-resolution way.
I party with my rocky cast fairly frequently. First ten or so times were half the worst thing ever and half pretty nice, and now it’s pretty much just good. I look forward to them now.
Of course there are explicit codes of conduct. About respecting consent, and certain people have things they either love or hate, but there’s a difference between talking about the rules that apply, and actually understanding the situation enough to know the rules.
Frankly, I still get really antsy when people who I don’t mind touching me actually touch me. Having been groped and sexually assaulted is not a helpful past experience in that regard, and frankly I think it’s living a little longer for me because of my personal stuff.
Wow reading the last couple of comments puts life into perspective for me
At least Ill never have to worry about dating sandra:) Like is more simpler for me hahaha
@Sandra
Not much to add outside of ‘yep’ and ‘understood’. Instead, I’ll say thanks for the conversation. It’s been nice and, on my end, very thought provoking. And I’m glad things are looking up for you in so many respects. Strength, sista 🙂
@dc
Such edge -_-
The fuck. Did dcfcfan1 just imply what I think they implied?
I implied that I wont need to worry about dating and getting laid , no more, no less. At least I know I wont be mistreated (like sandra has), so if I do end up having problems, I will know its 100% my fault and no one elses.
See, there is an advantage to being unnatractive lol:)
Ok…the wording made it sound like you don’t need to worry about dating Sandra.
Also, problems don’t have to be someone’s fault. Sometimes they just are.
And I’m going to assume you’re talking about levels of attraction beyond physical, as you’ve been warned to stop with the ugly talk (and people who aren’t conventionally attractive get plenty of dates, tyvm).
I understand people here dont like the ugly talk maybe because of bad experiences, labels that they may have been called that hurts them, so I from now on, have banned myself from using THAT word
No problem Kupo, but I think its easier to pin-point a problem when there’s just you and you arent in a relationship (I wouldnt know though, just a guess)
And your assumption was wrong Kupo, I was talking about myself. Therefore, no one can get offended now:) Am I attractive enough to get a date? Hell no
But there are advantages to that. I believe you can see good things in everything/every situation if you look hard enough. Maybe its a blessing in disguise that I cant get a date? Maybe its fate, my path?
And sorry sandra, if I have offended you:)
@dcfcfan1
It’s not about the word it’s about the meaning behind it. Using different words to mean the same thing is just as bad. And even if you’re talking about yourself. Did you read the welcome package and comments policy? They explain why.