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anti-Semitism depression incel misogyny normies reddit self-hatred stacies

Why one Incel Redditor thinks “treating incels for depression should be illegal” 

Therapy works. But incels don’t want to get better.

By David Futrelle

The “Incel” cult not only encourages so-called “involuntarily celibate” men to hate and blame women; it also teaches these men to hate themselves, obsessing endlessly over alleged physical flaws and other imaginary impediments that they think make them undateable and fundamentally unlovable.

One of the most insidious ways in which the Incel cult harms those in it is by discouraging clearly depressed men from seeking the psychological and psychiatric help it is clear so many of them desperately need.

Some incels dismiss therapy and medication as frauds, convinced that nothing will work for them. This is self-defeating but at least understandable. Therapy is hard work, and meds. while generally effective in helping most people, aren’t a panacea, and when you’re deeply depressed it’s hard to believe anything will help.

But there are plenty of incels who reject therapy and meds not because they think they won’t work, but because they’re afraid they will. These deeply miserable men don’t want to be cured of their misery because they don’t believe they deserve to be happy. Or even to live.

In a recent post on the Incels subreddit, someone calling himself StarvedOfHumanTouch argues bluntly that “[t]reating incels for depression should be illegal.”

“Some anti depressants and anti psychotics are too fucking effective,” he writes.

They have the ability to turn even the most suicidally depressed men into tax contributing good goys.

So far, if we ignore the not-too-subtle hint of anti-Semitism at the end there, StarvedOfHumanTouch is rehashing an old and silly argument put forth by some social critics who wrongly think that antidepressants turn everyone into “shiny happy” conformists. But his argument quickly gets much darker.

Depression like all other state of minds has a purpose. It is meant to hurt, weaken, and ultimately kill you. Trimming the fat from society so to speak. It is in the benefit of all to let the weak and disabled die off.

He’s including himself in this group.

So why keep us around? Is it compassion? Sadism? Or are we just a buffer to keep around to take the blow when shit hits the fan in society every other decade?

As far as I can figure out the logic here, StarvedOfHumanTouch apparently think that “normies” conspire to keep incels and other alleged “undesirables” around as, I guess, designated sufferers when crises roll around. It doesn’t make much sense to me either.

But StarvedOfHumanTouch’s fellow incels seem to have little trouble understanding what he’s getting at.

“[W]e subhumans exist so chads and staceys can feel better about themselves that they arent subhuman like us,” writes PM_ME_STRIPPERS.

“Yes, and conning them into “therapy” should also be a stoneable offense,” adds Thizizwhyimincel,” whose flair for the subreddit suggests that his “[m]other deserves to be raped by ISIS.”

Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.

3K-caloriespurple-pilled non-incel is of the opinion that”letting people suffer is [un]acceptable.” But instead of suggesting that sufferers get treatment to ease their suffering, he thinks that “euthanasia should be legalized for people with severe depression or mental issues.”

As someone who has struggled with depression for decades now, I can tell you that this sort of bullshit is the last thing any depressed person needs to hear. Treatment is available; meds help. Incel is, as I’ve said many times before, poison. It makes everyone it touches worse off. It’s suicide fuel.

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THE_SAMURAI
THE_SAMURAI
4 years ago

As somone who suffers from suicidal ideation and depression, this is a sad, sad man. This rhetoric is incredibly dangerous in a society that discourages therapy, and the expression of any emotion that isn’t happiness. He needs to seek therapy himself.

I’m also a bit peeved that he says that the “sick and depressed should die off”

Many historical figures had depression and other mental illnesses. I guess he wants Van Gogh to die off too.

Sidenote: It’s very obvious that he hates himself, leading him to write this sad, sad post.

P:S: If you didn’t catch the sarcasm when I repeated sad twice, look again. On a second note, this disturbs me. Dude seriously needs help.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

IgnoreSandra,

Well, tbh, I’d prolly not be able to stay up until midnight anymore, anyhow. I haven’t in years, lol.

But I cannot think if a better way to spend a “Christmas” than to take in a Halloween show with y’all. I want.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

Gonna second this. I can’t and won’t be emotionally available for everyone, especially folks who think they have nothing to work on

Yep! And, at least in my case, that thing to work on is letting go. It took me years cooped up inside to figure out that, if I’m gonna be alone, might as well get to know myself a little better. Didn’t become ‘objectively’ less ugly than before, but, turns out, I can be damn charming and rather adorable when I stop hating myself 😀

It really is. I hate me and wanna break mirrors, then I think I look fucking cute

I’m way more into the ‘think I look fucking cute’ end of things these days, but that’s mainly @Dali regulating my self esteem <3

I kinda googled, but I didn’t get a convincing definition for aspec. Asexual spectrum? Autistic spectrum? I’m on both of them

Aspec means ace/aro spectrum. Some people (bigoted assholes) invented the idea that it was stolen from autistic people. In the real world, ace folks started using ‘on the spectrum’, which is not cool, and autistics actually suggested we use aspec instead. TLDR, it’s a whole thing. On the other spec, I’ve been told I might be autistic. Not sure myself, but I’m, for shameful lack of a better turn of phrase, entertaining the possibility. Also, hey, soul sista! The more a folks the merrier

not because I actually wanted a relationship. Because I felt like I had to be in one to be valid in my existence, that relationships and children were the only point to life. I no longer consider that true

Absolutely. Never actually wanted sex or a romantic partner, but everyone has to, right? Even now I’ve got a girlfriend, the expectations don’t go away or hurt less…

I stared into the abyss, saw it for what it was, and stepped back. I’ve done this a thousand times on a thousand topics, this one was just a lot more painful than others, and echoes of it keeps carrying forward

*hugs aplenty*

Because effectively what he’s saying is that people who don’t date don’t do so because they look bad, and I know that isn’t true. I’m 6’6, with makeup and the right clothes I could compete with literal fucking models. But I was mostly single in the past because of my social issues, which included learned abusive behavior and misogyny, not because there was anything wrong with the way I looked. Same is true for the “incels”

People tell me I’m handsome. I hate it, but they do it anyway 😛 And, yeah, I’m glad I didn’t date when I was younger. I was definitely not ready for it, barely am now. Incels are like every evil villain in every fantasy movie. Obsessed with a power, an object, a desire they can’t possibly control. And they think the answer to that is to up the control. To tighten their grip on the mcguffin, instead of reevaluating the obsession itself. And it’s so tiring to be subjected to it. And make no mistake, incels, calling my orientation ‘ugly’ is subjecting me to your bullshit 😠

They’re voluntarily celibate, because maintaining that kind of loathesome personality without it collapsing on itself is a choice

I like to think of them as having already collapsed in on themselves and are now a screaming black hole from which no light escapes

Feline
Feline
4 years ago

I have never attacked someone intentionally for their appearance

http://i.imgur.com/3Af5hBB.jpg

Rocky Horror was a big thing with the theatre nerd subset of the nerds I associated with on the Internet in the early 2000nds. It seemed to be fun for them, but there always seemed, to me, to be certain undercurrents of expectations and status-seeking that made me uncomfortable, back then.

CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
4 years ago

I sometimes wonder why the self loathing doesn’t make them want to change. I’ve heard people say, “What if the meds turn me into a different person?” Well, if you hate yourself, maybe the person they turn you into will suck less?

Zack
Zack
4 years ago

To be fair, one of the nefarious features of depression as I experienced it was to convince you that the entire world was against you and that there was no point. If that holds true then by the same twisted logic, what is the point of changing yourself and trying to get better? If the world hates you then you get stuck either hating yourself or hating the world back. Go with either long enough and the likelihood of getting better becomes more and more slight. You either destroy yourself or destroy the world.

IgnoreSandra
4 years ago

I can be damn charming and rather adorable when I stop hating myself

Me too. The cat who I’ve really known for less than three days is already showing her belly to me. Animals can generally sense who to trust, and people are the same way.

Some folks can hide being a bad idea to interact with, but most people tell you who they are in one way or another, and someone who hates themself is eventually gonna lash out at others.

I have many things I need to work on, and some things – paranoia, anxiety – that have progressed too far to truly fix. One of my bigger issues is that I simply can’t forgive or forget. It just isn’t in my nature anymore.

Aspec means ace/aro spectrum. Some people (bigoted assholes) invented the idea that it was stolen from autistic people.

Ah. I’m in the demi part of the ace/aro spectrum. I haven’t sorted out if that’s my natural state, it’s the result of my traumas, or its being influenced by my hormones. Either way, when I was asked to introduce myself to the new people who are joining the rocky cast, I told them my sign was “No Soliciting”.

Never actually wanted sex or a romantic partner, but everyone has to, right?

Ehh. I have felt desire for sex and romance, with specific people in specific situations. But not the generalized desire for all women I felt was expected of me, with commitment to a single woman for an abominable period of time dealing with children. The expectation does come back around and smack me sometimes, too.

yeah, I’m glad I didn’t date when I was younger. I was definitely not ready for it, barely am now.

Honestly, I feel like I’m still a teenager. That those years have continued into my 20s. I wasn’t really me when I was 15 and 16, you know? So now I’m dealing with the stuff I didn’t deal with then. And that includes not being ready for any sort of thing, and a bunch of stuff women my age usually had a chance to address in high school.

Obsessed with a power, an object, a desire they can’t possibly control. And they think the answer to that is to up the control.

Sounds like every abusive relationship I’ve ever been in. Tighten your grip, but I am the dragon. And one day I will swallow you whole.

That’s movies and media, but media influences how we think, and there’s truth to the idea that the people will only put up with so much.

I like to think of them as having already collapsed in on themselves and are now a screaming black hole from which no light escapes

But that darkness still reaches out and affects the world around it. It can’t have completely collapsed. It still needs a good swift kick to help it along.

CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
4 years ago

Zack, for me it was more, “I suck, maybe the world won’t hate me if I suck less.”

Of course the reality for me was, I didn’t change, I was still weird, introverted, and out of place in the world, I was just able to function better with all of that.

I also don’t think fixing incel depression would fix incels. There was a study I read like a hundred years ago when I was in college. People were given an easy logic puzzle and after solving it asked to record their feelings. Women tended to talk about how the puzzle was easy, men talked about how great and smart they were for solving the puzzle. Next they were given and extremely difficult puzzle and then asked their feelings about it. Women talked about how they sucked and that’s why they struggled, men tended to talk about how the puzzle was too hard. It’s the way we socialize men that leads to bullshit like this, women are taught that if we fail it’s because we suck, men are taught that if they fail it’s because the system is rigged. Given male privilege and entitlement coupled with teaching men that if they fail it’s not them seems like the perfect storm to create incels.

All that being said, I’m not reaching out to those toxic shits, I am not the med-fairy *or* the goddess of unconditional positive regard.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Sorry if my comments were out of line and if I offended you guys

Reading the posters comments on here, wow, some of the stuff that you guys had to go through

Makes these INCELS more annoying, when they think not getting your dick wet is like the worst thing in the world. News for them, it isnt.

Respect to people here for being open about their situation and past and seeking help

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

Animals can generally sense who to trust, and people are the same way

Animals just think I’m weird…

Some folks can hide being a bad idea to interact with, but most people tell you who they are in one way or another, and someone who hates themself is eventually gonna lash out at others

Troof!

I have many things I need to work on, and some things – paranoia, anxiety – that have progressed too far to truly fix. One of my bigger issues is that I simply can’t forgive or forget. It just isn’t in my nature anymore

Trying to do things, positive things, outside of your nature is noble but can be damaging. Doesn’t make ‘doing the (nebulously) good thing’ less attractive. I forgive and forget too easy. It’s a problem. I can laugh and joke and be intimate (general sense of the term) with people I actively hate, cos the rage leaves in the moment. Then I feel bad about not telling em to fuck off. See: my family. Fuck, I need outta this house 😛

Ah. I’m in the demi part of the ace/aro spectrum. I haven’t sorted out if that’s my natural state, it’s the result of my traumas, or its being influenced by my hormones

All equally valid! And I’m demi(ish) too. I’m pretty sure I’ve always been aspec, but I’m equally sure I used to be more white side than I am now. I’m less likely to be attracted to people (equally able to find people attractive) than before, and my sex aversion/repulsion is relatively new. Probably my puberty hormone soup evening out or something

Either way, when I was asked to introduce myself to the new people who are joining the rocky cast, I told them my sign was “No Soliciting”

*cackles*

Ehh. I have felt desire for sex and romance, with specific people in specific situations. But not the generalized desire for all women I felt was expected of me, with commitment to a single woman for an abominable period of time dealing with children. The expectation does come back around and smack me sometimes, too

I feel that. I’ve been sexually attracted to 3 people in my young life. Lotta pretty people, but I need significantly more than that, you understand. And commitment, don’t get me started. So, one of my 1st, unheeded, clues that I’m aspec was that, as a kid, I literally couldn’t imagine myself in a monogamous relationship. Either my partner was poly (didn’t have the word at the time) or we were broken up. I only need or want 1 person, but I can’t be with someone who only wants to be with me. A case of romance aversion, I reckon. And, yeah, no kids. Kids definitely like me, but I’m good, thanks

Honestly, I feel like I’m still a teenager. That those years have continued into my 20s. I wasn’t really me when I was 15 and 16, you know? So now I’m dealing with the stuff I didn’t deal with then. And that includes not being ready for any sort of thing, and a bunch of stuff women my age usually had a chance to address in high school

Maybe you’ve seen it, but there’s a tweet meme thing going around that gay/queer/trans culture is teenagerdom for people who were never allowed to be teenagers. Read this if you’ve the time, I imagine you’ll have a lotta ‘^THIS’ while you do 🙂
https://mobile.twitter.com/AnaMardoll/status/904359192898785280

Sounds like every abusive relationship I’ve ever been in. Tighten your grip, but I am the dragon. And one day I will swallow you whole. That’s movies and media, but media influences how we think, and there’s truth to the idea that the people will only put up with so much

Know thyself <3

But that darkness still reaches out and affects the world around it. It can’t have completely collapsed. It still needs a good swift kick to help it along

Deep as fuuuck!

I like you, this is fun!!! 😀

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

And my link won’t post and my comment disappears. One more time, and I’m giving up

Animals can generally sense who to trust, and people are the same way

Animals just think I’m weird…

Some folks can hide being a bad idea to interact with, but most people tell you who they are in one way or another, and someone who hates themself is eventually gonna lash out at others

Troof!

I have many things I need to work on, and some things – paranoia, anxiety – that have progressed too far to truly fix. One of my bigger issues is that I simply can’t forgive or forget. It just isn’t in my nature anymore

Trying to do things, positive things, outside of your nature is noble but can be damaging. Doesn’t make ‘doing the (nebulously) good thing’ less attractive. I forgive and forget too easy. It’s a problem. I can laugh and joke and be intimate (general sense of the term) with people I actively hate, cos the rage leaves in the moment. Then I feel bad about not telling em to fuck off. See: my family. Fuck, I need outta this house 😛

Ah. I’m in the demi part of the ace/aro spectrum. I haven’t sorted out if that’s my natural state, it’s the result of my traumas, or its being influenced by my hormones

All equally valid! And I’m demi(ish) too. I’m pretty sure I’ve always been aspec, but I’m equally sure I used to be more white side than I am now. I’m less likely to be attracted to people (equally able to find people attractive) than before, and my sex aversion/repulsion is relatively new. Probably my puberty hormone soup evening out or something

Either way, when I was asked to introduce myself to the new people who are joining the rocky cast, I told them my sign was “No Soliciting”

*cackles*

Ehh. I have felt desire for sex and romance, with specific people in specific situations. But not the generalized desire for all women I felt was expected of me, with commitment to a single woman for an abominable period of time dealing with children. The expectation does come back around and smack me sometimes, too

I feel that. I’ve been sexually attracted to 3 people in my young life. Lotta pretty people, but I need significantly more than that, you understand. And commitment, don’t get me started. So, one of my 1st, unheeded, clues that I’m aspec was that, as a kid, I literally couldn’t imagine myself in a monogamous relationship. Either my partner was poly (didn’t have the word at the time) or we were broken up. I only need or want 1 person, but I can’t be with someone who only wants to be with me. A case of romance aversion, I reckon. And, yeah, no kids. Kids definitely like me, but I’m good, thanks

Honestly, I feel like I’m still a teenager. That those years have continued into my 20s. I wasn’t really me when I was 15 and 16, you know? So now I’m dealing with the stuff I didn’t deal with then. And that includes not being ready for any sort of thing, and a bunch of stuff women my age usually had a chance to address in high school

Maybe you’ve seen it, but there’s a tweet meme thing going around that gay/queer/trans culture is teenagerdom for people who were never allowed to be teenagers. Read this if you’ve the time, I imagine you’ll have a lotta ‘^THIS’ while you do 🙂
https://mobile.twitter.com/AnaMardoll/status/904359192898785280

Sounds like every abusive relationship I’ve ever been in. Tighten your grip, but I am the dragon. And one day I will swallow you whole. That’s movies and media, but media influences how we think, and there’s truth to the idea that the people will only put up with so much

Know thyself <3

But that darkness still reaches out and affects the world around it. It can’t have completely collapsed. It still needs a good swift kick to help it along

Deep as fuuuck!

I like you, this is fun!!! 😀

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
4 years ago

I was introduced to RHPS in the summer of 1978, before my senior year of high school, through the LGB* youth group I was in. Introduced my younger sister to it a few months later.
She ran with it – introduced her school friends, organized a shadowcast, even got a Time Warp act into the school talent show. In retrospect, it really helped her let her freak flag fly. I was mainstream in comparison, despite being the first out student in school history.

*This was before the T was added.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
4 years ago

I haven’t sorted out if that’s my natural state, it’s the result of my traumas, or its being influenced by my hormones. Either way, when I was asked to introduce myself to the new people who are joining the rocky cast, I told them my sign was “No Soliciting”.

There is no “natural state”, my duck. You are exactly the person you are right now. It’s turtles, all the way down <3

IgnoreSandra
4 years ago

@Axecalibur

I can laugh and joke and be intimate (general sense of the term) with people I actively hate, cos the rage leaves in the moment.

I’m the opposite. I haven’t spoken with my brother in six years because he was an abusive jackass to me and came back with a fake apology. “I’m sorry if you were offended” is not an apology. So I refused to accept it, and though he’s tried to speak with me since I simply don’t speak with him, and won’t until he has a genuine apology for me, something that makes me think there’s at least a 1% chance he won’t go right back to being a narcissistic abuser.

Probably my puberty hormone soup evening out or something

When I was 15 – 17, I could want to be with someone so badly it would hurt, though I never quite knew what being in a relationship would mean or what people in relationships even do. I honestly had a lot of the same questions about friendships.

That was my autism acting, needing a routine to understand, a code to operate by and being unable to contemplate not having a set of personal rules to govern my actions. I still can’t deal with that. Doing new things is always really hard for me for that reason. The first few times I went to parties were simply hellish, especially since I’d often get overstimulated.

I’ve been sexually attracted to 3 people in my young life.

I’ve been attracted to more people than that. But for me it’s always been, I start thinking of a person as a friend and only then do I want to bone them. I’m still like that. At any given time, I have a few dozen people I low-key want to have sex with, but at the same time the concept of sex terrifies me because it’s not something you can have codes of conduct for and because intimacy and vulnerability are close enough to the same thing.

Maybe you’ve seen it

I hadn’t seen it! Though I had seen the tweet where the guy was talking about gay teenage years are in their thirties. That’s definitely happening with me. I’m trying to sort out my style and stuff.

Deep as fuuuck!

I like you, this is fun!!!

Um, please don’t say that like that. One of my abusers used to say that when I got a little fighty.

@Robert Walker-Smith

I think I said earlier that I’m using RHPS to work on my body issues, but I didn’t join a shadowcast for that reason. I joined a shadowcast because I went to something like 15 shows in increasingly beautiful dresses and some of the cast members engaged me and chatted with me and eventually shoved an application in my hand. So I panicked, tried to tally reasons for and not to, panicked again, and flipped a coin.

So I joined a shadowcast, and it has been infuriating and glorious at the same time.

@Scildfreja

There is no “natural state”, my duck.

And even if there was, what matters is who I am now.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Sandra

That was my autism acting, needing a routine to understand, a code to operate by and being unable to contemplate not having a set of personal rules to govern my actions. I still can’t deal with that. Doing new things is always really hard for me for that reason. The first few times I went to parties were simply hellish, especially since I’d often get overstimulated.

I hear you so much on this.

Even my cast doesnt do midnight screenings anymore. Just on halloween for that. It’s kind of our christmas.

We have a local theater that does them every Friday.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@Sandra

I haven’t spoken with my brother in six years because he was an abusive jackass to me and came back with a fake apology. “I’m sorry if you were offended” is not an apology. So I refused to accept it,

I admire that strength in people. Thing is, my brother’s the only local ‘friend’ I have. So, if I want the basest of human interaction, it’s him and/or mom. Whom I’ve recently come to utterly despise. But, while I’m stuck under the same roof, coping mechanisms…

I never quite knew what being in a relationship would mean or what people in relationships even do

I still don’t know. Dali had to explain to me what dating is and that we’d been doing it for weeks up to that point 😀

Doing new things is always really hard for me for that reason

Fear of physical pain, rejection, or failure. Keeps me in my sheltered, ascetic bubble. For me, doing the thing is almost never that bad, contemplating the thing is always far worse. Never been to a real party, likely never will

it’s always been, I start thinking of a person as a friend and only then do I want to bone them

Yep! But also only after they’ve made moves. Then it clicks, ah ha moment, and I’m twiterpated 🙂

At any given time, I have a few dozen people I low-key want to have sex with

I don’t know a few dozen people 😛

the concept of sex terrifies me because it’s not something you can have codes of conduct for and because intimacy and vulnerability are close enough to the same thing

Right? I mean, we do have some explicit codes of confuct in my relationship, but you can’t account for everything and it’s still scary

Um, please don’t say that like that. One of my abusers used to say that when I got a little fighty

Ah! My mistake. I’m sorry. For everything, ya know? Sympathies…

IgnoreSandra
4 years ago

@Dalillama

We have a local theater that does them every Friday.

We do like 11 pm every other Friday, and bar shows some saturdays a little earlier. Close to midnight, but not quite.

@Axecalibur

So, if I want the basest of human interaction, it’s him and/or mom.

It was like that for me for years. My family lives in the ass-end of nowhere, and it’s half an hour or longer to anywhere worth being. So I could talk to my mom, brother, dad, or possibly my sisters if they were around.

I was incredibly fortunate enough to be able to go away to college at age 20. I basically had to work through my social issues really quickly.

One of my bigger issues with being abused and neglected and mistreated by many different people through my life is that I’ve developed a bit of paranoia. Except it doesn’t feel like paranoia. Paranoia is when you’re overly concerned about hostile action, but it feels like I’m appropriately concerned about hostile action but that doesn’t stop me from refusing to consider re-learning forgiveness or forgetfulness.

I still don’t know. Dali had to explain to me what dating is and that we’d been doing it for weeks up to that point

I’m totally clueless. Maybe I’ll just stay away from stuff like that forever or so.

For me, doing the thing is almost never that bad, contemplating the thing is always far worse.

I see. Sometimes your own anxieties are a problem. I deal with that to some degree, but for me the worst time is always the first one. It gets easier once I can start to deconstruct what’s going on and remind myself of all the individual components. That’s one of the reasons I completely freeze when someone’s injured. I have problems processing that in a problem-resolution way.

I party with my rocky cast fairly frequently. First ten or so times were half the worst thing ever and half pretty nice, and now it’s pretty much just good. I look forward to them now.

we do have some explicit codes of confuct in my relationship, but you can’t account for everything and it’s still scary

Of course there are explicit codes of conduct. About respecting consent, and certain people have things they either love or hate, but there’s a difference between talking about the rules that apply, and actually understanding the situation enough to know the rules.

Frankly, I still get really antsy when people who I don’t mind touching me actually touch me. Having been groped and sexually assaulted is not a helpful past experience in that regard, and frankly I think it’s living a little longer for me because of my personal stuff.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Wow reading the last couple of comments puts life into perspective for me

At least Ill never have to worry about dating sandra:) Like is more simpler for me hahaha

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@Sandra
Not much to add outside of ‘yep’ and ‘understood’. Instead, I’ll say thanks for the conversation. It’s been nice and, on my end, very thought provoking. And I’m glad things are looking up for you in so many respects. Strength, sista 🙂

@dc

At least Ill never have to worry about dating sandra:) Like is more simpler for me

comment image
Such edge -_-

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

The fuck. Did dcfcfan1 just imply what I think they implied?

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

I implied that I wont need to worry about dating and getting laid , no more, no less. At least I know I wont be mistreated (like sandra has), so if I do end up having problems, I will know its 100% my fault and no one elses.

See, there is an advantage to being unnatractive lol:)

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Ok…the wording made it sound like you don’t need to worry about dating Sandra.

Also, problems don’t have to be someone’s fault. Sometimes they just are.

And I’m going to assume you’re talking about levels of attraction beyond physical, as you’ve been warned to stop with the ugly talk (and people who aren’t conventionally attractive get plenty of dates, tyvm).

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

I understand people here dont like the ugly talk maybe because of bad experiences, labels that they may have been called that hurts them, so I from now on, have banned myself from using THAT word

No problem Kupo, but I think its easier to pin-point a problem when there’s just you and you arent in a relationship (I wouldnt know though, just a guess)

And your assumption was wrong Kupo, I was talking about myself. Therefore, no one can get offended now:) Am I attractive enough to get a date? Hell no

But there are advantages to that. I believe you can see good things in everything/every situation if you look hard enough. Maybe its a blessing in disguise that I cant get a date? Maybe its fate, my path?

And sorry sandra, if I have offended you:)

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@dcfcfan1
It’s not about the word it’s about the meaning behind it. Using different words to mean the same thing is just as bad. And even if you’re talking about yourself. Did you read the welcome package and comments policy? They explain why.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’m seeing lots of “sorry you were offended” notpologies and still smelling sock odors all over this thread.

Paradoxical Intention - Leader of the Deathclaw Damsels

IgnoreSandra | September 3, 2017 at 7:24 pm
And Clue sometimes.

CLUUUEEEEE!

Gods above, that’s such a wonderful movie (I’m not 100% of a fan of the way they treat the one homosexual character, but the humor and pacing is great). I recently watched it with Jackie, who had never seen it.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

WWTH: Afroaway, perhaps?

IgnoreSandra
4 years ago

@dcf

At least Ill never have to worry about dating sandra:) Like is more simpler for me hahaha

Of course right after I say that I neither forgive or forget, someone comes along demanding I prove that. Fuck the fuck off, you bastard. You don’t deserve anyone as good as me on my good days.

And sorry sandra, if I have offended you:)

What did I literally just say was NOT AN APOLOGY? No reason for me to stop considering you a deserving target of whatever wrath I can spare at the moment, then. Fuck off.

@Axecalibur

Really nice talking with you too 🙂

@Kupo

Also, problems don’t have to be someone’s fault. Sometimes they just are.

Hell yes to that. I didn’t ask to be autistic. It’s nobody’s fault. It’s not even a problem. It’s just a difference neurotypicals make a point of disrespecting.

It’s not about the word it’s about the meaning behind it. Using different words to mean the same thing is just as bad.

Boosting this because it’s 100% right.

@Paradoxical

Gods above, that’s such a wonderful movie (I’m not 100% of a fan of the way they treat the one homosexual character, but the humor and pacing is great). I recently watched it with Jackie, who had never seen it.

I love that movie so much omg. I like the multiple endings, the pacing, the jokes, I used to watch it several times a day just cause. Tim Curry’s a real treat in it. How they treat Mr. Green is kinda bad and I don’t really have a defense for that.

I also genuinely like Shock Treatment, although I can see why a lot of folks don’t.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Peevee,
That’s what I posited earlier in the thread. He did say that he kept posting here for the attention and like MRAL before him, had to ask for a ban. I was pretty sure he’d wind up socking sooner or later.

The “I’m not an angry misogynist but …” and then proceeding to make everything about his sad boner and ugliness seems pretty similar to me.

Then again, the dudes who come on here to wank about their loneliness or awkwardness all sound the same.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Misoginist is someone who hates women and blames all their problems on women. Where have you seen me do that?

Im not lonly by the way, I have plenty of friends , as I am only young at the age of 23. There will become a time where everyone will get married or engaged, which means I will have more time to myself (age 27-28 Id imagine|), which I will embrace

And sandra, that came out wrong, I wasnt talking about dating you. And Kupo, facts are facts. Im good at some things, not good at others (Dating). Thats the way of life

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

You may not be at the horror levels of the people mocked on this site. But you’ve talked about women like we’re interchangeable and there to validate men and you’re constantly bringing every damn thing back to your supposed ugliness. It kind of seems like you’re out to use this place as some sort of free therapy or something.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Therapy for what? Not being able to get a date…pur-leaseeeee

There are plenty of people out there with depression, PST, Bipolar issues, traumatic childhood who actually NEED therapy

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Yes. We’re all very impressed that you deal with not being able to get dates so well. It’s not like you even bring it up eleven billion times a day. Here’s a cookie

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/3455427220_8814c9f421_m_3750.jpg

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

In addition to what WWTH said, you’re blaming your lack of dates on your physical appearance, which is both a way of deflecting from having to introspect and find which flaws might be driving people away, but also of shifting the blame onto women for not being attracted to you. You’re not actually acknowledging that it’s your problem like you claim, but blaming it on something you have no control over.

Ellesar
Ellesar
4 years ago

I understand people here dont like the ugly talk maybe because of bad experiences, labels that they may have been called that hurts them, so I from now on, have banned myself from using THAT word

dcfcfan1:

You are missing something important here and you are young so that is OK, but I think you have a lot to learn about what is being said about you calling the incels ugly. Yes, using ugly as an insult is hurtful but it isn’t just about that. You could have used the word ‘fat’ and people will still be angry. Just about ANY word can be turned into an insult depending on culture and context.

Generally *here* (but also IRL for most of the people who like this blog) we try to reject judging people on their appearance and equating value and worth with it. We do not want to decide how we feel about anyone based on anything but their character. So YOUR appearance MY appearance, and anyone else’s is irrelevant.

We don’t not CARE what the incels LOOK like. What makes us angry/ sad/ exasperated is their adherence to vicious and dangerous attitudes and ideas. This goes for anyone else. This is why people will not agree with you and say it is OK.

And yes, ugly is a completely subjective word. Someone mentioned Richard Boone earlier, calling him ‘objectively ugly’. As a younger man he actually fulfils traditional criteria for being a ‘handsome’ man (imo!)! But again, that is really not the point. Not one of us will totally agree about what someone’s physical appearance is, meaning that it can NEVER be objective.

Edit: I have just seen you are 23 – so not as young as you come across. Maybe read more and blab less?

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

WWTH, oh, I missed that, sorry!

In any case, dcfcfan1and his need for attention is grating on my nerves, and your cookie looks delish, so I’m off to the bakery.

Chris
Chris
4 years ago

TL;DR: Therapy doesn’t fix most “incels”, it just sedates them. Quite a lot of them end up committing suicide or worse.

Therapy doesn’t work for a lot of people because most of it is based on either (1) missing (or insufficient) chemicals (good therapy) or (2) sedation (not so good therapy).
Sedation will help some become *tolerable* to be around but it won’t fix their *actual* problem.
Many women won’t admit to this out of politeness or because they don’t realize but, in fact, whatever it is a lot of these “incel” men suffer from makes women instinctively *scared* of them.

The increasing number of “incel” men should worry us all.
It might be one of nature’s ways of population control or something else.
In time, we may see a large number of “incel” women as well.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

mmmmmm that cookie 🙂

And KUPO, I dont make fucking excuses. End of the day Im not good enough. No moaning, whinging or begging for pity. I move on. I certainly do not blame women.

I have had friends who act like “nice guys” and show their true colours when they get rejected. I had to weed them out over the last few years

Ellesar, thanks for your post, I have understood this community a lot more reading this and I will respect the rules

CMH
CMH
4 years ago

@Chris

The increasing number of “incel” men should worry us all.

Why, because they’re going to snap and kill us if they don’t get what they want? That sounds like a familiar strategy, who else makes threats like that? Who could it be?……..

In time, we may see a large number of “incel” women as well.

There’s probably a good number of “incel” women already, maybe even a comparable number to that of men. But society doesn’t tell women they deserve a hot guy just because, so we don’t complain about it as much.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Chris,

I must’ve missed the psych research suggesting that incel is a medical condition. Care to cite?

DCFC,

You’re being creepy.

IgnoreSandra
4 years ago

@WWTH

Wasn’t he always being creepy, when he wasn’t being misogynistic, rude, and entitled?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Yeah, but the smiley emoji in response to my obviously sarcastic post adds extra squick.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Wow, suggesting that his attempt to blame his lack of success on his physical appearance seems to have touched a nerve. Sorry, doll, but facts are facts, and saying you’re unsuccessful in dating because of your appearance is an excuse.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
4 years ago

Perhaps this will help you understand why the claim of “I’m too ugly to date” sets our teeth on edge.

Lots of people who are conventionally ugly get dates, get married, have kids, etc. Lots of people who are conventionally attractive don’t get dates, get married, have kids, etc. I have a friend who is not at all conventionally attractive; she’s been described as ugly (by terrible people, each and every one of them). She’s a sweetheart and has three wonderful children.

In parallel, the “I’m too ugly to get a date” theme is common with MGTOW. It turns out that many of them aren’t unattractive – many of them look incredibly average, as I’ve seen. On the other hand, they’re incredibly picky about women’s looks, and refuse to consider dating anyone beneath their ridiculous standards.

Almost like they’re scared of rejection and failure, and have set up as many excuses as possible to let them avoid trying. Their desire to date twists into anger at rejections they set up for themselves. “I’m too ugly” “She’s too ugly” “Women are sluts these days” “Women are just gold-diggers.” They’re all just excuses to avoid doing the hard work of figuring themselves out.

You don’t have to date, you don’t have to do any of that. Society pushes us all to get married and have kids, but you really don’t have to. If that’s your preference, that’s great! But if you do want to date, have relationships, etc, being conventionally ugly is no barrier! You can do it! You just have to overcome those things inside of you that are keeping you back. Identify them, beat them or turn them to useful purposes, and get out there.

You can do it!

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Thanks to the poster above, but to be honest I have killed off my desire to date and be with someone. And Kupo, we will just have to agree to disagree. I aint ever going on a date or getting laid. Its me, and my path is set. Ive learned to embrace it. Hardest part will be getting my closest friends and family to accept that when the inevitable questions come out when In closer to 30. Thats my barrier now.

And I understand that rejection is natural and I recommend every guy to get out there at the age of 19/20 and try to get a date. Why? Because you learn two things if anything. To get out your comfort zone and to learn to handle rejection with dignity. Key to be successful in life. I have asked lots if girls out, made lots of female friends (still have some of them) and been on 4 dating sites for 2 years. It hasnt worked out.

I dont regret trying, because its made me a better person. Rejection has made me stronger, made me not take criticism personally and its made me more mature. However, towards the end, I started to obsess over “getting a date” and started to feel like a failure. Now I know that ISNT HEALTHY. So it had to stop. It was like I was trying too hard because I was scared of not getting married or never getting intimate. Now Ive embraced it. Im travelling, reading, graduated with a 1st class degree, Im enjoying life more.

Best of luck to the people who have managed to find someone, but for me, my path is set.

I think to label me as “creepy” is unfair. But do what suits you I guess. And those MGTOW quotations from the poster above is an absolute disgrace, They need educating.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Sorry, but I don’t agree to disagree on topics that have been thoroughly studied. There are multiple facets to attraction and physical appearance is just one of them. It will never be the sole factor in someone else deciding whether to date you. I reject your proposal and do not agree to disagree. I will continue to point out the wrongness of statements regardless of whether that is uncomfortable for you. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Fair enough Kupo but there is nothing left for me to say with regards to me and dating. It hasnt and wont work. To no fault of women as well (for the 10000th time). Im just not good enough and made to date I guess. The end

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

dc tried really damned hard to make this thread all about himself and has finally succeeded.

Dude, stfu for a while, and when you post again, do it about something other than yourself. I realize that you’re the protagonist in your own story, but you’re not the protagonist in our stories, and we don’t care about you as much as you assume.

You want to think that you’re super-evolved in having made peace with your datelessness, but the fact that you talk about it con-stant-ly tells me that you’re actually not over it at all and you haven’t made peace with it even slightly. That’s for you to work on, yourself, somewhere outside this forum. We don’t care about your attitude toward dating. We just don’t. So fucking shut up about it.