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anti-Semitism depression incel misogyny normies reddit self-hatred stacies

Why one Incel Redditor thinks “treating incels for depression should be illegal” 

Therapy works. But incels don’t want to get better.

By David Futrelle

The “Incel” cult not only encourages so-called “involuntarily celibate” men to hate and blame women; it also teaches these men to hate themselves, obsessing endlessly over alleged physical flaws and other imaginary impediments that they think make them undateable and fundamentally unlovable.

One of the most insidious ways in which the Incel cult harms those in it is by discouraging clearly depressed men from seeking the psychological and psychiatric help it is clear so many of them desperately need.

Some incels dismiss therapy and medication as frauds, convinced that nothing will work for them. This is self-defeating but at least understandable. Therapy is hard work, and meds. while generally effective in helping most people, aren’t a panacea, and when you’re deeply depressed it’s hard to believe anything will help.

But there are plenty of incels who reject therapy and meds not because they think they won’t work, but because they’re afraid they will. These deeply miserable men don’t want to be cured of their misery because they don’t believe they deserve to be happy. Or even to live.

In a recent post on the Incels subreddit, someone calling himself StarvedOfHumanTouch argues bluntly that “[t]reating incels for depression should be illegal.”

“Some anti depressants and anti psychotics are too fucking effective,” he writes.

They have the ability to turn even the most suicidally depressed men into tax contributing good goys.

So far, if we ignore the not-too-subtle hint of anti-Semitism at the end there, StarvedOfHumanTouch is rehashing an old and silly argument put forth by some social critics who wrongly think that antidepressants turn everyone into “shiny happy” conformists. But his argument quickly gets much darker.

Depression like all other state of minds has a purpose. It is meant to hurt, weaken, and ultimately kill you. Trimming the fat from society so to speak. It is in the benefit of all to let the weak and disabled die off.

He’s including himself in this group.

So why keep us around? Is it compassion? Sadism? Or are we just a buffer to keep around to take the blow when shit hits the fan in society every other decade?

As far as I can figure out the logic here, StarvedOfHumanTouch apparently think that “normies” conspire to keep incels and other alleged “undesirables” around as, I guess, designated sufferers when crises roll around. It doesn’t make much sense to me either.

But StarvedOfHumanTouch’s fellow incels seem to have little trouble understanding what he’s getting at.

“[W]e subhumans exist so chads and staceys can feel better about themselves that they arent subhuman like us,” writes PM_ME_STRIPPERS.

“Yes, and conning them into “therapy” should also be a stoneable offense,” adds Thizizwhyimincel,” whose flair for the subreddit suggests that his “[m]other deserves to be raped by ISIS.”

Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.

3K-caloriespurple-pilled non-incel is of the opinion that”letting people suffer is [un]acceptable.” But instead of suggesting that sufferers get treatment to ease their suffering, he thinks that “euthanasia should be legalized for people with severe depression or mental issues.”

As someone who has struggled with depression for decades now, I can tell you that this sort of bullshit is the last thing any depressed person needs to hear. Treatment is available; meds help. Incel is, as I’ve said many times before, poison. It makes everyone it touches worse off. It’s suicide fuel.

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Bobbie Loblaw
Bobbie Loblaw
4 years ago

“Good Goys”?

If therapy’s off the table, may I suggest dick-punching?

Austin Loomis
4 years ago

In 2003, I finally got on an SSRI, after five years with constant low-level electrical activity in my brain that had my temper on a hair-trigger. The difference was day and night, like somebody unlocked the phone booth after the angry bees got out of the storage bag. I also got into therapy, which has helped nearly as much as the meds. I would invite StarvedOfHumanTouch to end his starvation by sucking all my dicks, especially the three prehensile ones, except that most of them are in the fourth dimension.

EDIT: Or Bobbie’s idea about dick-punching works too. Whatever they’d enjoy more.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

I know of some people who think assisted suicide is the solution to all of society’s problems and they have extreme disdain for anyone with mental or physical disabilities or issues. It’s a really poisonous mindset.

Assisted suicide for terminally illness is complex and I’m undecided at this point, but those people want assisted suicide to be legal for anyone with a disability or serious life problem.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
4 years ago

Reminder: These people hate women, but they definitely hate men too, judging from how they consistently want men to suffer.

I have a little nephew and I worry a lot about this toxic masculinity garbage. If he stays a gentle and rather sweet-tempered person, I want him to be able to be himself and be happy without being policed for it.

Meanwhile, I want to be able to clearly express anger (politely) without being policed for it. And I want people to stop telling me to smile, and that all my problems are imaginary.

Gijoel
Gijoel
4 years ago

Incel is, as I’ve said many times before, poison. It makes everyone it touches worse off. It’s suicide fuel.

Murder/suicide fuel. FTFY. After all they’re usually dizzy with glee whenever a incel linked mass shooting occurs.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

At first glance this just seems to be another manifestation of the Incel ‘bucket of crabs’ mentality.

However I’m not entirely convinced by their claims of depression anyway. I don’t wish to sound unsympathetic to genuine sufferers of mental illness; but it’s a pretty standard tactic of incels to appropriate things like Aspergers and social anxiety as both a justification for their vile behaviour, and to elicit sympathy. But of course they don’t actually want sympathy; they just want the opportunity to enjoy rejecting it in the most vicious way. It’s the same with any offers of help generally.

It’s all a game to them. It’s rather like their bizarre claims that incels have it worse than holocaust victims. They claim the status of the ultimate underdog, but spurn any attempt at help, because they don’t want help.

The last thing an incel wants to do is change, because being a vile person is not a symptom or by-product of some underlying condition; it’s their entire raison d’etre.

To be honest, personally I don’t just think compassion is wasted on them, it seems almost insulting to people who are actually suffering.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
4 years ago

I lost two male friends to suicide in their thirties, so I am absolutely disgusted at these Incel shit nuggets. 🙁

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
4 years ago

I have a…certain borrowed character with several elements of this mindset brewing in him by default, save the various bigotries.

I immediately thought of the fellow upon reading this. Quite sad, if you ask me.

On a lighter note.

@Austin Loomis

I would invite StarvedOfHumanTouch to end his starvation by sucking all my dicks, especially the three prehensile ones, except that most of them are in the fourth dimension.

I’m going to have to borrow and slightly alter that one (lacking a dongus).

Angi
Angi
4 years ago

As i see it selfhate and the pain they feel are the substance of being an Incel. If Incels stopped with this shit, their justification to hate and hurt others would be lost.

They rather want to stay miserable than to stop hating other people. It’s such toxic bullshit, their philosophy has to die.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

How does it benefit all to let people with mental illnesses suffer untreated? Even if you set aside empathy and compassion, I can’t think of a single societal benefit. Mental illness puts strain on the entire family of the person suffering. People with untreated mental illness often self medicate with narcotics or alcohol so there’s a public health and safety component to making treatment accessible even beyond what benefits the mentally ill person. People with untreated mental illness are less productive at their jobs or are unable to work at all so it’s better for the economy to provide treatment.

Seriously, what exactly is the benefit to denying treatment for mental illness?

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

Incels hate themselves and other people. Their ideology is really fertile for murder-suicide.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
4 years ago
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
4 years ago

Redditor incels are desperate for attention. The only reliable way they know to get it is to be more disgusting than the guy who posted before them. Good going, guys!

They are also — to steal a term from Keeping Up Appearances bone-idle. They can’t be bothered to do any work to bring about changes in their lives. No, they’ll stick with moaning, complaining, and viciousness.

I’m having a hard time feeling bad for them.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

They are too ugly to get laid.. so take out their hate on everyone else.. no sympathy

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ kat

to steal a term from Keeping Up Appearances — bone-idle

Were you not familiar with the term before? It’s a pretty standard northern one. Brings back happy memories of schooldays.

On a related note, there’s an area in my home town called Idle. Which results in this nice bit of irony.

comment image

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
4 years ago

@History Nerd

This somewhat off topic but assisted suicide for *anyone* regardless of physical, medical , or social standing should be legal. The only controls needed are standards that the person seeking assisted suicide is rational and undertaking the action voluntarily. It’s complex but if you favor the non-substantial bodily autonomy (the requirements of respecting it are desire neutral and choice conditions are checked against formal benchmarks) that most feminist ultimately favor that’s the only logically tolerable position.

I don’t have any major medical issues. I’m still going to die by my own hand at some point because of my philosophical commitment to having my death on my own terms. This is, hopefully, many years off through.

dcfcfan1
dcfcfan1
4 years ago

Ill admit, I am a male who cant get laid to save his life, but fuckkkk me, these incel guys are in a mess. I just accept it and get on with it, after all., Im healthy, have nice friends and family, is it that important that Im not good enough to “get” a girl to want to have sex with me?

I just dont see why you would label yourself with something you dont like about yourself, seems barmy. And it really isnt the end of the world if you cant have sex. It really isnt

Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
4 years ago

‘So why keep us around?”

Because we don’t live in a nazi fucking country, you shrivelled-up angry fucking goblin!

Amnesia
Amnesia
4 years ago

The last time I got off my meds, after a job/insurance loss, I had to constantly remind myself that I really didn’t want to die. Some days, I compromised by picking something that would kill me eventually, but only if I stuck with it, like staying outside in freezing weather.

So, basically, fuck these guys.

Moggie
Moggie
4 years ago

As a life-long sufferer from depression, I wanted to feel empathy here, but… no.

Depression lies. It tells you you’re worthless. It tells you that nothing will help. It tells you that you don’t deserve happiness anyway, you piece of shit. And if you make the mistake of entertaining the possibility that treatment might help, it points out that this could only be true if treatment changed you so much that you were effectively a different person, which is a kind of death, so why not speed things up and kill yourself anyway?

Depression makes you hate yourself, but it doesn’t, in my experience, make you hate other people, least of all the towering, incandescent rage that these guys exhibit for a large fraction of the human race. And it doesn’t encourage you to indulge in a circle jerk of competitive violent fantasies. Shit, some days I barely have the energy to properly hate myself; these guys are the Energizer Bunnies of loathing. They appear to live in a spoon-rich environment.

If they’re hurting, and that’s not an act, yeah, I feel sorry for them about that. But hurting doesn’t justify wanting to hurt others. Being a jerk is not a mental illness.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
4 years ago

@Alan

to steal a term from Keeping Up Appearances — bone-idle

Were you not familiar with the term before? It’s a pretty standard northern one.

No, I had never heard of “bone idle” before — but I figured it was a British expression. I hadn’t guessed that it was a Northern British expression.

Around my house, we’re pretty amused by the term.

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

People with mental illnesses are not weak.
People are not only worth what they can do or provide.

That said, his logic is entirely circular.
If the weak shouldn’t survive because they cannot endure and be of benefit to society then how is becoming healthy enough to endure and contribute wrong? If contributions to society are wrong, then why shouldn’t people who don’t contribute survive and thrive too? He fails to be even slightly cogent.

Why is their answer to everything to murder somone? Seems to me these guys are more dedicated to looking for an excuse to kill than anything else. Lack of access to women’s bodies and what it represents for them: success, status, and dominance are just excuses for what they really want. They want an excuse to kill. They’re after what they see as the ultimate power trip. They all sound way too much like Richard Ramirez to me.

bluecat
bluecat
4 years ago

It’s frightening to think that people who are suffering from depression, anxiety, or feelings of pointlessness and low self-worth might find themselves turning for advice to this nest of … turds.

(Was going to say vipers, but snakes are awesome).

Advice seems to be:

“Absolutely don’t try to get help whatever you do.”

“Anyone who offers or advises you to seek help is out to get you and can’t be trusted at all.”

and “Hey, violence is a great option. Turn it on others or turn it on yourself – yay!”

I’ve struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts since I was small, but have only recently been able to talk about it with anyone, let alone seek any help for it.

Well, it fluctuates (not bad right now), but there have certainly been times in my life when getting that kind of support and validation of all the worst possible feelings in my repertoire would have been absolutely the most dangerous thing I could possibly have encountered.

And then – I’m not armed, and know of no way I could arm myself if I wanted to. The incels, on the other hand, may be.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ kat

This would suggest it’s not exclusively Northern; or at least there’s an East Anglian variant.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bone-idle.html

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

@Mike Smith

States like Oregon where assisted suicide is legal limit it to terminally ill people to try to prevent abuse. The issue of whether a socially disadvantaged person can truly make voluntary choices is really thorny.

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

I think “bone idle” is Appalachian too. It goes with being “no account”.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
4 years ago

@Bluecat

Hey, turds can be useful! I’ve played enough Don’t Starve to know not to pass up perfectly good fertilizer!

…That said, I’m glad you’re able to get help now. My dad “is on anti-depressants,” and I take after the man. I think I feel it lurking, sometimes…and I wonder how things would be better if it turns out there was something to take for what seems like little (if incredibly aggravating) things to me.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Lea

Appalachian

Isn’t there some northern Britain/Scotland cultural connection to Appalachia? Seem to recall that from a documentary about folk music.

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
4 years ago

As someone who’s just now returning to get treatment for anxiety (first time to therapy since 2007) these guys can seriously go screw. I’m not going to be ableist or anything but isn’t it kinda truly evil to tell people to ignore medication and mental health? It’s not just the person that they’re telling to do something bad but also that person’s family and friends who rnd up seeing them suffer.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
4 years ago

Most of these Incel types are not the hideous monsters they belive themselves to be, but just ordinary common or garden variety teenagers. Eliot Rodger and Dylan Roofe included. Not deformed monstrosities, except in their heads.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

Yes, a lot of Scots came over and settled in Appalachia. I want to say that they were mostly Borderers, but memory is dim, so if anyone else can confirm, feel free.

brian
brian
4 years ago

of we want to read charitably, I’d like to point out that “good goys” COULD just be “good boys” with a typo. ‘g’ and ‘b’ are quite close on the keyboard.

my general response: JFC. get help. it helps.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

Depression is probably one of the most treatable serious illnesses we know about. There’s no panacea, but the vast majority of depressed people get better with treatment. Telling people not to seek treatment and to stay miserable is evil, by most definitions of the term “evil.”

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Alan
The short answer is yes. The long answer involves iterated colonialism, attempted genocide, and Ulster still being part of the UK.

Bina
4 years ago

Depression like all other state of minds has a purpose. It is meant to hurt, weaken, and ultimately kill you. Trimming the fat from society so to speak. It is in the benefit of all to let the weak and disabled die off.

As someone who has suffered from major depression in the past, and fears nothing so much as that she will again — FUCK YOU, NAZI BOY. If you want to kill yourself, I ain’t stopping you, but I’m damn well going to LIVE. And I refuse to let your eugenics-based argument (bad science if ever there was any) convince me otherwise. If I ever get sick again (heaven forfend) — I’m damn well taking my meds. And if society don’t like it, society can fuck the hell off along with you.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

There’s the ideology that traditionally privileged or wealthy groups are now oppressed by leftist government policies and social attitudes, successful disadvantaged people must unjustly benefit (to a lesser or greater degree) from that oppression and they’re “not suited” to that type of success, etc. Incel ideology is just a much more radical and extremist version of that, going up to supporting violence and terrorism to create social change.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

This is the part that gets me:

Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.

Even the suggestion of help is treated with disdain; as if the mere thought of not wallowing in their own victimhood is a valid reason to visit violence on somebody.

Leo
Leo
4 years ago

I have help at present, but treatment just hasn’t worked for me so far. It’s not always treatable.

@Alan Robertshaw
That’s about the most sympathetic thing you could say, actually. These guys are not depressed, they are just hateful. To them, it’s another ploy for sympathy.

My depression does not make me hate other people. Even when it would be quite justifiable it’s difficult, and I hate myself most – I can’t even hate these guys for being horrendously misogynistic as much as I hate myself for failing to stop them (which I should be able to, because Everything Is My Fault, obviously), or as much as I hate myself for feeling like I should (because although it is All My Fault, isn’t that arrogant? And it’s still pathetic that I can’t, and I’m pathetic for thinking that, and urgh…).

Depression also does not distort my view of external reality in quite this specific way. Sometimes it brings it into crystal-clear unbearable focus. It could not make me think that women were all [insert their horrible claims about women here], because I can at least see that isn’t true. Depression doesn’t make me totally impervious to reason, either.

They also seem to have a lot of energy for this, more than I could manage.

@weirwoodtreehugger
I think if the economy was perceived as needing us, we might be more likely to get help. We’re not seen as worth it, and given many people have the same qualifications as me (highest is degree, English), maybe that’s understandable. I don’t think my perception of not being needed is actually off.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I think if the economy was perceived as needing us, we might be more likely to get help. We’re not seen as worth it, and given many people have the same qualifications as me (highest is degree, English), maybe that’s understandable. I don’t think my perception of not being needed is actually off.

Well yeah, in capitalism, workers are commodities and are all considered replaceable. No one individual is going to be treated as needed whether or not they have any mental illnesses. Not saying I personally agree with that, of course. Sadly it is the present condition in the US at least. Speaking from personal experience, that’s hell on someone with depressive tendencies. But in the aggregate, enough of the population suffers from mood disorders that if treatment for depression and anxiety ceased to exist, we’d most likely see negative effects on the economy.

Scarlett Athena
Scarlett Athena
4 years ago

I am a little perplexed by the question of why society keeps them around as if everyone in society gets together and makes decisions about what to do with everyone. You know, incels, you’re not the center of the universe. We’re not all thinking about you and what your life is like.

You should want help so you can get some enjoyment from this life. And working is not just about paying taxes. It’s about getting money to do things you enjoy doing.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

It’s eyeroll inducing how objectively important these people think they are. Everything is about their ‘pain’. The rest of us only exist to further and exacerbate it. Just cos y’all only think about genitals don’t mean we only think about your genitals

D
D
4 years ago

@ Alan Robertshaw

The Scots-Irish/Ulster Scots were the dominant group in the earliest colonial settlement of Appalachia. A lot of Appalachian culture is traceable to that source. Maybe the best-known book about it is Albion’s Seed by David Hackett Fischer, which describes the four main segments of British society that settled in colonial America and shaped its culture.

Mattie
Mattie
4 years ago

Speaking as a lifelong disabled person, abled people don’t want us as a “buffer.” They occasionally want us for “inspiration” or subminimum-wage labor, but generally, they’d love to get rid of us (hence the various eugenics campaigns in history). They’ve written pages of economic and political and philosophical theory on why we’re society’s burdens.

Staying alive and trying to get the care we need is, therefore, the most radical act we can do. I wish someone could make these incels believe that. This is really sad.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
4 years ago

One of the most irritating aspects of these incel comments is the bizarre mix of self-loathing and the conviction that they are superior to the rest of us. Usually I have immediate empathy for people who feel socially excluded. It’s horrible. But it doesn’t make you A Special Person Who Sees The Truth and it certainly doesn’t justify wishing violence on everyone.

@Moggie,

Depression makes you hate yourself, but it doesn’t, in my experience, make you hate other people, least of all the towering, incandescent rage that these guys exhibit for a large fraction of the human race.

Seconding this, with feeling. I appreciate how you articulated it. This is only anecdata, but: I’ve hated myself, and hurt myself, because of depression, but it’s never taken other people as its object. Never blamed others, either.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

About the only reason I wouldn’t want to see one of those chucklefucks commit suicide is because they’d probably try the suicide-by-cop method, which tends to produce collateral damage.

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

Alan,
Yes, there is.

Hypatia's Daughter
Hypatia's Daughter
4 years ago

Any normie, or whore, who recommends therapy for an incel, is intentionally trying to steal money from an inferior man. They absolutely deserve the rope for even suggesting this.

I know these guys are obsessed with gold digging womenz who are only interested in them for their money, but isn’t this is taking it to a really weird extreme?
To believe that it is better to suffer severe emotional pain and possibly self destructive or suicidal behavior than to spend money on treating & healing yourself. It’s like they believe that money is some precious commodity, that is so valuable in its own right that it must be hoarded at all costs.
What is the money you earn for, if not to spend on yourself & make your life better?

Giant Stone Head
Giant Stone Head
4 years ago

Whooo boy.

I have to admit that the posts on incels are the most fascinating to me, in large part because if I had discovered Reddit or 4chan when I was a kid, I likely would have taken the Black Pill and become an embittered asshole filled with self loathing. As a disclaimer, I’m in therapy and on medications. Now anyway. Took awhile.

I disagree with some commenters who say these guys aren’t depressed. When my depression works its way up to the surface, I do get angry and embittered. When my thinking gets warped and thoughts similar to Red Pill thinking start to slip in, eventually leading to suicidal thoughts. I think holding onto bitterness and anger can lead a person to depression, or perhaps some people with the disorder are more prone to it being expressed in a more angry way. And I get where they’re coming from being actively against those trying to help. I spent years resisting getting help, determined to do it on my own. I don’ t know how many long winded conversations I’ve had with people, complaining and bemoaning my life.

Not sure where I’m going with this, other than deciding to chime in as someone who could have become an incel had circumstances been different.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Giant Stone Head
Being an asshole isn’t a mental disorder. Please read the comments policy. And please, for the love of FSM, don’t sympathize with misogynists in here.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
4 years ago

@Giant Stone Head,

I apologise if my comment was one of those you’re referring to – I should have worded it more clearly. I definitely didn’t mean to imply that depression does not do “X” and therefore these ppl are not really depressed.
The one constant about depression is that its experience varies enormously. I meant to align my own experience with what Moggie said. Sorry if I suggested a One True Depression! 😀

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