By David Futrelle
Found this meme on Twitter, posted by Lauren Southern, the horrendous alt-right islamophobe antifeminist who may not technically be an MRA (I don’t know if she’s ever called herself one) but is certainly MRA adjacent. I’ve seen numerous MRAs, including some who complain endlessly that there are more women than men in college, making essentially the same argument.
I find it ironic that so many alt-right people claim to appreciate their heritage, but shit on the humanities. Oh, you’re just referring to your color group “identity”, but studying and preserving the rich cultural history of literature, art and philosophy is useless liberal crap.
A co-worker of mine went to one of the for-profit tech schools so beloved of our Sec/Education… his skillset (computer drafting) was 4 years out if date when he graduated because the school’s software hadn’t been upgraded. Luckily, my workplace hadn’t upgraded OUR software for four years….
TheKND:
I suspect you have a million stories, none of which you can tell!
Oh, and thank-you for your service.
Two things on the trades vs degree debate:. On the one hand the average salary of degrees get inflated due to being a mean (two finance fucks getting $20 mill each covers a lot of teachers earning less after five years than they did when they started). On the other, the elephant in he room for high paying trades is that it is very hard on the body and likely few could work until 62-65. With the decline of unions and their pensions who’s going to cover shortfalls in retirement and healthcare? Not that it’s the plan but I could be an accountant part-time until I’m 70 if I had to, that is an unlikely option for a trades worker.
My Dad, after years in trades, now teaches health and safety, and black trades (welding, plating, that sort of stuff – the name comes from trades that basically started out as the stuff blacksmiths did); he had to stop working on the tools in his early fifties because if the heavy wear and tear on his joints and his back is seriously messed up. He usually has three or four girls or women in a class of ten. They are chosen on their skills and drive.
He regularly tells me how proud he is of the girls, because back when he was an apprentice girls just didn’t go into the trades, and he’s seen an increase of women going into traditionally masculine trades. He says 16 year old girls are usually easier to teach and more sensible than the boys, especially around the dangerous stuff. They listen more and take notice. He was particularly proud of a ‘farmer’s daughter’ who was top of the class a couple of years ago.
I went to university before the fees got shoved up ridiculously high, I didn’t pay fees because of a low family income and got a full loan entitlement, as well as a few grants for being from a low income family. I think I’m £15,000 in debt for my BSc Natural Sciences (chemistry and earth sciences), and by the time I’m finished my MA Creative Writing it’ll be up to £25,000. Not bad for two degrees.
I’m sure these MRA twits would say I’m doing a humanities post-grad degree because I couldn’t make it in STEM. On the other hand, the truth is I’m doing my MA in creative writing because I enjoy writing. I’m broke because I’m ill and can’t work, not because I did a ‘degree in something stupid’. Ooh, I got a whole £7 in royalties for my first novel today!
Every penny spent on my education has been worth it; university is more than the time spent in lectures and seminars. It’s the first experience of living independently for a lot of people, usually away from their home environment. It’s the chance to meet people who are different from you and what you’re used to. It’s experiences from activities and the chance to grow emotionally as well as intellectually. MRAs probably wouldn’t think they are valuable because they can’t be monetised.
@Knitting Cat Lady
I’m hoping to apply to a Master’s degree in Germany next year. Not only is it much more affordable than a MBA in the States but I’d come out of it with a third language.
“Women are not made for STEM” is such bullcrap. The students who were consistently top-of-the-class when I was studying Chemical Engineering were mostly all women.
University fees in the States are punishingly high, but how do you go from there to “people who choose university must be stupid, especially women, who all study useless things”?
Also, bullet points are generally meant to be read vertically, not horizontally (in the absence of other indicators). So, since “Doesn’t give a shit” is right under “Makes $70k a year”, we can assume Mark doesn’t care about his salary. 🙂
“Got a 4-year degree in something stupid”
Only stupid people think mathematics is stupid.
So I’m currently doing a degree in Environmental Science, working full time and being a single mum to 2 boys. And every time I get a good result back on my assignments it’s going to feel even sweeter knowing that I’m misandering all over the place 😀
I’d like to see any of the MRAs juggle that much stuff. Paul Elam can’t manage one thing at a time, let alone 3.
@Nanny Oggs Bosom – this still sounds expensive to me! But your fields of study are cool (as if you needed approval from a random person, but still)!
I applied for a similar program after my undergrad – didn’t get in, but I ended up taking an MA in literature. The academic degree is needed for my current job, but a Creative Writing MA (or MFA, at is it in some programs) teaches you a lot about publishing and gives you the impetus and guidance to complete a longer work. Plus, as you said about school in general,
I miss having the writing workshops that I had in my undergrad – luckily, I found an awesome writer in my community who does non-pricey ones, and I’ve taken two of her writing classes this year.
About university costs. I’d also like them to be free, or at least affordable. You can’t solve income inequality without addressing systemic racism and education fees (thinking of you, Trump, and not in a fond way). Even if lower university costs lower the “value” of a degree in some fields, the greater access to education is more than worth it.
Luckily I was born in Quebec and did my BA here (at Concordia) – I could pay for most of it myself. I went to Ontario for my MA, and even with salary from tutoring and being a teaching assistant, I ended up owing $6,000 to my dad, which took me 2 years to pay back. Still not much compared to some student debt.
I can’t decide whether to be amused by or mad at this guy:
http://i.imgur.com/E9xSJ7E.jpg
It’s like when children complain that their sibling/friend has something they don’t, not because they like that thing, just because the others have something they don’t.
@Buttercup
Thank you. 🙂
Whenever the MRAs get all STEMlord and suchlike I always like to remind myself “Admiral Grace Hopper would fuck their shit up. With Mathematical Precision, even.”
I’m literally sitting in the middle of my university campus as I read this. Most of the ladies I know on campus are doing way more difficult degrees than me (although to be fair, I haven’t actually declared a major yet…)
MrsObedMarsh:
Holy crap, I hope that’s not real, because, damn! I’ve been holding doors for people, regardless of gender, since around the time doors were invented, and it appears there are whole areas of door-holding dynamics I was woefully unaware of. Not once have I thought that it implied some kind of power differential, or that it was an economic transaction. I have wasted my life!
Does “amousing” mean “amusing and arousing”?
Mrs Obed Marsh,
I’m going with both.
On the one hand, fuck him for getting angry at someone for being polite to him. It takes a special amount of entitlement to think women are conspiring to tear him down via door holding emasculation.
On the other hand, the irony is pretty hilarious. Anti-feminists often trade almost certainly apocryphal stories about angry feminists yelling at them for holding a door. Yet, it’s one of their fellow manospherians who is the one ranting about the horrors of having a door held for them.
Why don’t incels just become sex workers then? Doesn’t that tick all the boxes?
Hi again all 🙂
Relatively new here too and haven’t posted lately because I have been helping my sick friend. Yes the &T half of we miscreants. She’s better now.
We both did study mechanical engineering in school. This is an urban area with enough (more so then, than now) mfg. and as others said about ‘trades’, people in mfg. often wind up there due to relatives too.
Or you’re directed that way via college academic counselors.
It isn’t that difficult, don’t let people scare you away!
@ Virgin Mary –
You inspired a few thoughts too, I was remembering that you said you grew up in a (my paraphrasing) ‘conservative’ area, with a ‘religious’ family?
We here came from “conformist suburban” areas too. Might not be exact same, but from what I see you say – the attitudes are similar.
We got out 🙂
And since you mentioned music, I was thinking of one of my faves –
And for this performance, where she stood in for Kurt Cobain, the only introduction needed – was her name 🙂
Ladies and Gentlemen …..Joan Jett
This incel dangleberry wants the Canadian government to issue him with a white woman.
Wonder what the PM did with his letter?
At the risk of being all Americasplainy, I’m going to go ahead and tell him how the women of Canada and Justin Trudeau feel about this proposal
The pink pussy specification was particularly retch inducing.
Moggie: I’ve also been in the habit of holding doors for people since I was a kid.
I wonder how many people we’ve pissed off over the years.
@Virgin Mary Probably the PM’s staff had a good laugh before shredding it. 😀
I like the assumption that Megan knows who Mark even is. There’s no explanation for how they know each other. I mean, they probably didn’t go to college together. What’s the connection, and why would she be so incensed by his educational path?
@z&t
I got out, but I still get angry and upset about all the pain they put me through, even siding with my dad when he beat me because it was discipline. I’ve just found out this week my cousin has a boyfriend, and I’m happy for him even though he hasn’t spoken to me for 19 years, since he was persecuted for being gay and had to marry a woman under false pretences. The sad thing is that they had a son who he isn’t allowed to see, the whole thing would have been different if he was allowed to be honest about his sexuality in the first place. 🙁