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Nazi trolls launch fake #PunchANazi campaign to smear AntiFa as domestic abusers

4channers launch a false flag campaign, apparently forgetting that we can see what they post

UPDATE: See update at the end of this post. It’s kind of funny.

By David Futrelle

On Monday, I published a post devoted to the proposition that Alt-rightists and their ideological kin lie about everything — usually badly. As if to prove my point, right-wing trolls from 4chan and Gab have launched a false flag “meme campaign” designed to smear AntiFa activists as supporters of domestic violence against women and children.

The campaign seems to have originated at 4chan — see the graphic at the top of this post — where it was quickly taken up by some of the resident anons. (Click for full-sized graphic; I’ve censored the graphic depictions of bruises.)

The idea quickly found its way to Gab — the famously “censorship-free” Twitter alternative, positively overflowing with Nazis and shitlords — where an alt-right Gabber called @Sperg quickly assembled a vast library of grotesque memes.

ᴄʀʏᴘᴛᴡᴀʀᴢPRO · @cryptwarz 🏛 Politics · 5 hours · edited Steps to Ostracize Antifa and all Communists: 1.) Go to @Sperg on Gab 2.) Download Images or Copy Image Links 3.) Go To Twitter and Hashtag #PunchANazi 4.) Show your "Righteous Indignation" at the depravity of Antifa and demand the media and the Left Denouce this vile hatred. 5.) Sit Back

Here are a few of the tamer ones, lightly censored to obscure graphic depictions of bruises and other injuries — though they’re still pretty disturbing.

I’ve taken the liberty of writing FAKE on each in big red letters.

Many of the memes were so over-the-top that they could only fool the most gullible — like those advocating the beating of children and elderly women.

It wasn’t long before these memes began popping up on Twitter — some of them posted by alt-rightists and Trump fans, others posted by clearly fake AntiFa accounts. (Or at least clearly fake to you and me, not necessarily to your typical Trump fan.)

 

It seems incredible to think that anyone could be fooled by such obviously fake memes — particularly since the evidence that this is a false flag is being spread around the hashtag by leftists trying to correct the record. But smear campaigns like this work even if only a small number of those seeing the fake memes think they’re true; they further poison an already poisoned well.

Dirty tricks have always been a part of politics. But for many in and around the alt-right today, politics has become almost nothing but dirty tricks. We need to remember that these are people who lie as casually and compulsively as their hero Donald Trump — and call their hoaxes out every time we spot them.

UPDATE: Naturally, 4chan anons are mad that they’ve been found out, as Robyn Pennacchia details in a lovely post on Wonkette. 

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ weird eddie

Thank you for that. How the techniques are still big used today is one area I want to look at.

What I’m especially after is any commentary about how women are portrayed in the manual; do any of the scenarios sound familiar; is it anachronistic or would it still stand up as a contemporary release? All that sort of contextual stuff.

Moggie
Moggie
4 years ago

Fishy Goat:

There’s been an awful lot of WW2 docs on American Heroes Channel (used to be the Military Channel). Some have been very good (The World At War, the Final Solution) and some not so much (shows with Nazis + UFO’s and/or zombies in the titles makes me weep for their quality).

The World at War? The British docu series from the early 70s? Bloody hell, I remember watching that in 73-74. Haven’t thought of it in years, but I’m glad to hear it’s still shown, because I remember it as very good. Thanks for reminding me: I’ll get a boxset!

This and The Ascent of Man were pretty much the pinnacle of British TV docus in the 1970s.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

@wwth;

There’s not much acknowledgement that the USSR was a huge part of things and not much about the women and people of color who fought.

One of the best sources of “Military Channel”-ish info about the USSR in WW2 is a series called “Soviet Storm: WW2 In The East”. It’s a Russian TV series using Soviet footage from the War. It’s available on DVD but I’ve never found it on “U.S. coded” media. I’m not adverse to hacking a foreign coded copy… I just don’t have that skillset. 🙁

It is available on Yoo-Toob, tho.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ weird eddie

Thanks for that. How the techniques are still used today is one area I want to cover.

I’m especially interested in things like: the depiction of women in the manual; does the manual seem anachronistic or would it still feel contemporary if released today; are any of the scenarios familiar?

That sort of contextual stuff as much as the practical content.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Re: proving the past

Hugh Trevor-Roper’s book “The Last Days of Hitler” is interesting in this regard. It’s best known as a, if not the, definitive account as to what happened in the Fuhrerbunker. However the book also explains why Roper was asked to investigate that, and how he went about it.

The Western allies were concerned to stamp out any Hitler or Nazi mythologising right from the start. They didn’t want a neo Nazi resurgence in 20 years time with people suggesting that Hitler had been literally or metaphorically stabbed in the back by the generals, or that he was secretly alive somewhere, ready to return like a fascist Mahdi.

So it was vital to establish exactly what had transpired, and just as importantly demonstrate the reliability of the evidence for that conclusion.

Roper’s job was made a lot more interesting when Stalin suddenly decided it would suit his purposes to suggest the Western allies had rescued Hitler and he was secretly working for them on planning a second Barbarossa.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
4 years ago

@Moggie That’s the one. 🙂 There’s also a colourized version, now. Still better than most that gets shown.

@WWTH I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just the fact that they changed the name from ‘Military Channel’ to ‘American Heroes Channel’ was worthy of a big side eye. 😛

But, god, it’s Nazis all the time there, it seems.

Fabe
Fabe
4 years ago

Holly shit I just stumbled across some trying to use this

https://twitter.com/fatlise/status/900098880880168961

its in the comments by some guy calling them self ‘antifaLA’

Bina
4 years ago

*sees Canadian flag on post*

*promptly runs out to strangle a telephone pole in disgust*

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

@ Alan;

My school sponsored a self-defense training course aimed at people who had little or no interest in Martial Arts, but wanted to learn a few techniques which could help them in a dangerous situation. Scenarios such as those in the pamphlet were reenacted, with a context such as “barroom bully”, “overaggressive date”, “street mugger”, etc. The process taught situational awareness, rapid decision making, rapid response and effective technique. The aim of the course was to give the student the tools to escape a situation by discouraging the attacker from continuing.

My function was to act as the attacker, and I can attest, these techniques have lost NONE of their effectiveness! I can also attest that, using properly applied techniques, a 55lb high school freshman can effectively “reason with” a 205lb 3rd year karate student. Perhaps the most difficult part is getting the person to apply the technique like their safety depended on it.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
4 years ago

The first image is of a British actress named Anna Friel. This was a picture taken to publicise a domestic violence awareness campaign.

In Britain, Friel is best known for being one half of British soap’s first lesbian kiss (the character also stabbed her abusive father, and buried him under the patio). So, no, I don’t think she’s a Trump voter (she’s been doing a lot of work in the States recently, so I suppose it’s not beyond credibility that she might have taken citizenship – but, no).

These people really are disgusting.

In other news, the Daily Mail has discovered MGTOWs (non-DM link).
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/zmmqzj/the-problem-with-women-today?utm_campaign=global&utm_source=vicefbuk

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
4 years ago

Something went weirdly wrong with my connection for a while today; I tried to post a comment on Alan’s text a little while back – then everything disappeared – then it reappeared – and now it’s suddenly popped up one page back (it was before you mentioned the question of contemporary-or-not, Alan, but I did slightly mention that by accident anyway). (I recognise one hold-breaking thing from lessons, too)

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

@ opposablethumbs

re: the gent in the self-defense pamphlet, this is, indeed the esteemable Major Fairbairn

also, regarding the “knee to the pit of the stomach”, I had the same thought.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

55lb high school freshman

Wut.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

@ wwth;

that was supposed to be 85lb…

Molloy, Moran, Malone
Molloy, Moran, Malone
4 years ago

Alan–

The efforts made in the final stages of the war and immediately thereafter were undeniably of paramount importance. There’s no telling how different things could have turned out had any of it been carried out sloppily. The Nazis had set about attempting to destroy much of the evidence, but there’s just no way they could have made all those corpses, bones, piles of shoes, just disappear, no matter how motivated they were. Still, evidence is worthless unless it’s collected and put in context.

That’s not to say it went off without a hitch. It’s an unspeakable shame that members of the French Prefecture of Police intentionally destroyed virtually the entire archive of arrests and deportations of Jews that transpired under the Vichy government. As in, all of the records, from all of France, from the beginning of the Vichy period, as I understand it. It seems like you probably know more on this subject than I, please, correct me if I’m wrong. Think of the information, the evidence, the closure, that was robbed from so many people. Despicable.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
4 years ago

@ Weird Eddie, ha, yes, one cannot be a-mentioning of the unmentionables :-s

I do like the way it is so down-to-earth and unflappable.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ opposablethumbs

Thank you ever so much for that. That’s the sort of thing I’m very much after.

that makes it feel all the more perfectly normal that of course any woman might make use of the techniques depicted

I find it interesting that in the “wandering hands” section there’s no suggestion a woman should put up with it or that it’s no big deal. It’s just ‘If someone touches you without your consent you’ll no doubt want to remove their teeth. Here’s how.” Be interested to hear what the women here think.

take measures to prevent subsequent reprisals.

That is covered in the umbrella bit.

I really want to grasp how and why the Matchbox Defense works

Holding the matchbox means you can strike at full power with less risk of damaging your own hand. Modern MMA gloves have a bar across the palm for the same reason. Disposable lighters are a good substitute for the original technique.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

ETA: The Commando manual is equally coy. That uses “fork of the legs”. They do say groin (and even testacles!) in the formerly top secret training films though. Which interestingly are narrated by a young David Niven (uncredited).

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

that was supposed to be 85lb…

Even that’s way too light. I was a late bloomer puberty-wise and was still tiny and young looking my freshman year. I weighed about 115.

Sorry to seem all nitpicky about it. It’s just that there’s a lot of underestimation of what typical body weight for women and girls is supposed to be and it can be dangerous. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read books in which female characters are described as 110 pounds. When I was in my lead up years towards having an eating disorder, I would feel like there was something wrong with me and I must be so fat because I weighed more than that. Even though I was athletic and fairly thin in my late teens, the 140-150 range I hovered in seemed like it had to be fat because the numbers were too high.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

I do like the way it is so down-to-earth and unflappable.

the epitome of “British reserve”

Major Fairbairn* was also half the development team for the Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife… a grim tool with a grim job.

*I referred to Major Fairbairn as “esteemable”; this was premature, I know nothing about him except his profession… and given that profession, that may be an ill-advised term to throw out blindly….

peep
peep
4 years ago

Sorry if I’ve already been ninja’d, but I believe the reason they used a white woman instead of a white man in the “meme” is that they want to make anti-fascists seem like they only care about women insofar as they adhere to leftist beliefs and that they, the Nazis, are women’s true allies. Which we all know is 100% projection.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Re: W E Fairbairn

http://ejmas.com/jnc/miscjnc02/Fairbairn1.jpg

(Apologies for the WW2 era language)

http://ejmas.com/jnc/miscjnc02/Fairbairn2.jpg

also half the development team for the Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife

Technically he was one third. Americans, correctly, refer to it as the Fairbairn-Applegate-Sykes knife; but you know how parochial we are (Rex Applegate was an OSS operative who came to Camp X to study Fairbairn’s techniques.)

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

Sorry to seem all nitpicky about it. It’s just that there’s a lot of underestimation of what typical body weight for women and girls is supposed to be and it can be dangerous.

No problem, I understand. I wrestled at 118 lbs my sophomore year, and probably would have had to take a deep drink before weigh-in to get there. The youth in question did, indeed weigh 85 lbs, though, as we weighed in before training. They were just extremely slender. I remember this, as they were chosen for the demo specifically due to that weight differential, to illustrate that the weight had less significance than would be expected.

After I grabbed the person’s shirt, a middle finger was sunk an inch into my hand between my first and second metacarpal, then somehow my elbow was bent back way farther than it was designed to bend, and I was on a one-way trip to the floor. As I indicated, convincing the student to APPLY the technique was the hardest part. I had convinced our young Jedi that they weren’t going to hurt me… I was wrong!!

DannyBoy
DannyBoy
4 years ago

Jeez, just when I thought the alt-Reich couldn’t get any stupider…

That part where the guy accuses antifascists of beating women and children on the vague suspicion that they might be Nazis and then says “We could’ve saved the six GoRillion if we killed baby Hitler” is perhaps the stupidest of all. These are people who regularly deny the Holocaust, use Nazi slogans and gestures, rally under modified Nazi war signs, constantly talk about “preserving the white race” or whatever, and fantasize about starting another Christian crusade… and then in the same breath have the gall to say “oh we’re not really Nazis you’re just an SJW” I swear, these people are the ones keeping me up at night…

Danger Noodlet
Danger Noodlet
4 years ago

This faked-up flyer was posted at altright.com months ago, and apparently shared through PEGIDA Canada before that.

I only bothered to image-search for its origins when I witnessed an acquaintance or two who were apparently willing to take the flyer as genuine after having it shared with them after Charlottesville. My acquaintances agreed on the tells of fakery once I pointed some tells out to them, but what if no one had pointed any out?

Sheila Crosby
4 years ago

@Dormousing-it Yes, I think that’s the main problem. Remember being 14 and thinking that 25 was really OLD? And nobody over 40 knew anything.

I grew up hearing about world war II. It always seemed plenty real to me. I don’t think it’s nearly so real to my son.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
4 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

RE: Brochure

P. 25. Defense from an overenthusiastic handshake. I wish I’d known about that move years ago. Someone I met damn near broke my fingers once. I think he didn’t really intend to hurt me; he was a big young dude who’d probably been told to shake hands “firmly”. So, that’s what he did!

Page 33. Theater groper. I’d shout, ” Get your hands OFF me!”, before I touched the person.

P. 39. Who picks up a hitchhiker these days? Especially a woman driving a car alone. It’s been years since I’ve seen any.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

It’s just that there’s a lot of underestimation of what typical body weight for women and girls is supposed to be and it can be dangerous. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read books in which female characters are described as 110 pounds. When I was in my lead up years towards having an eating disorder, I would feel like there was something wrong with me and I must be so fat because I weighed more than that.

This. So much this. I remember when I was a kid I absorbed all of this, and especially so when my mom and doctor told me I was overweight and put me on a weight loss diet, around when I was 10. I remember watching Batman and he asks Vicki Vale how much she weighs and she tells him 108. After the action scene he calls her out on this as being inaccurate. I knew that women lied about their weight because being fat is a bad thing. So I took that in as 108 is an acceptable weight, but more than that us fat. I held that belief for a very, very long time, that 108 was this ideal weight. I was always more than that, so I was clearly fat. Plus my mom and doctor said I was fat; so fat I wasn’t allowed to eat the same foods as my siblings. I developed an eating disorder as a result of this, with that one weight joke in that one movie being a ridiculously large factor.

@Weird Eddie
Your comment made it sound like this was a generic, rather than specific example. You could probably avoid giving false impressions by clarifying that you’re referring to a specific person in the future if you make similar comments. Just a suggestion.

misophistry
misophistry
4 years ago

I enjoyed the self-defence manual Alan. I don’t suffer from any huge disadvantage in height (5’6″)or weight (150lbs)compared to an average man, but I see a lot of huge gym-beasts I would need to use those techniques on, and I know a lot of apparently smaller men are stronger than me. I took wing-Chung for a few years and a lot of this seems familiar.

I was once grabbed from behind by the hair in a car park at night and used that very method to twist round and jab him in the eyes. Unfortunately he had a friend who came in from the side and split my eyebrow open somehow. Thankfully I had a half dozen friends who appeared at this moment in my defense. I have no idea what happened next but apparently it was all good. Sometimes this is what it comes down to, how many friends you have. I had a lot of friends to spar with back then and it really does make a difference to have practiced a lot. I think I could have taken them both if I hadn’t been blind drunk. Maybe.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

@ Kupo;

Thanx, that makes good sense.

@ wwth;

annnnd… after checking the archive of the story about the class, my memory is definitely shot. The person weighed 96lbs. Still quite impressive given the better than 100% weight difference…

The effectiveness of most of these techniques, indeed of most of self-defense, is to turn the attacker’s reflexes and movements into advantages for you.

misophistry
misophistry
4 years ago

In a way being trashed helped me take the first guy out as I was so full of bravado and ready for anything. But I think it blinded me to the presence of the other attacker.

The next time I saw the guy he had fingernail shaped scars on the whites of his eyes! Nasty. It was a tense confrontation and he threatened more violence but once again I had many friends to cover for me.

This was many years ago and I still live in the same town. Haven’t seen him for a while though.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
4 years ago

@Sheila Crosby

Yup. I figured, when I turned 25, I’d have life all figured out. Heh. I’d just started to live, when I was 25.

Molloy, Moran, Malone
Molloy, Moran, Malone
4 years ago

Misophistry: I can’t imagine being able to go on living in the same town as my attackers, let alone having the misfortune to come face to face with one of them so soon afterwards. This probably sounds cliche, but I admire your strength.

For good measure, I’ll throw a TW here for speaking very elliptically about rape, sexual violence, etc.

Hell, even after six years, even knowing they’re literally on the opposite side of the planet, even if it’s broad daylight and I’m sober and I don’t make any of the “mistakes” I made that night, I STILL have substantial difficulty leaving my apartment. Just knowing what happens, what happened, what could happen again…

Not to minimize what I’m sure was traumatic for you, but thank god you had friends within earshot, and the skills to fend them off, even in the state you were in. Sounds like you’ve got mad skills.

misophistry
misophistry
4 years ago

@Molloy, Moran, Malone I think I’ve been very lucky. As for trauma I did jump at every loud noise for months after.

I’m not leaving town. The ex-friend that molested me still lives here too. But fuck it I’m still not leaving town. All the friends who stuck up for me live here too.

I didn’t want to leave my flat for a while but ten years has passed and my job in retail means I look everyone in this town in the eyes everyday and brightly greet them. I am on anti-anxiety meds unsurprisingly.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ misophistry

Thanks for sharing that; it’s much appreciated.

I was once grabbed from behind by the hair in a car park at night and used that very method

Yeah, that’s still the standard technique. It’s also now taught as a hijab grab defence.

he had a friend who came in from the side

The techniques haven’t evolved much; but decent self defence training does now emphasise situational awareness a lot more. It’s generally “Defend, neutralise, scan for the next threat”. The manual doesn’t really cover that. But it was meant to keep things very simple.

It’s actually pretty much just an abridged copy of the Commando manual. The illustrations are almost identical, but with army uniforms rather than that rather nice frock.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
4 years ago

Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them project this hard. This is what happens when the useful idiots forget the big lie is the big lie. Suddenly the very thing that think believe women deserve is the thing that their ideological opponents do.

“No false flag, no false flag! You’re the false flag!”

Bobbie Loblaw
Bobbie Loblaw
4 years ago

Sadly, I expect this to be very successful. It’s an appeal to emotion, not to intellect.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ malloy & misophistry

We do a bit of work with some women’s aid groups. There’s obviously a few survivors of things like DV and assaults. One thing we’ve noticed, and there’s a bit of literature on this, is that as well as the practical benefits of SD training, there’s also a therapeutic effect. It can alleviate symptoms of PTSD because it mitigates the ‘helplessness’ component.

Usual caveat about there being no obligation to learn SD, but it can be useful in that regard.

misophistry
misophistry
4 years ago

Thanks Alan you’re a rock. It still gives me butterflies in my stomach thinking about it. My town is a bit rough under the quaint exterior.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

It’s weird

a man who can’t conceive of the existance of women has a female “spiritual adviser”… almost as weird as evangelical xians supporting a man who is literally the physical embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins….

If trump were a Democrat, they would be railing, fucking foaming in their denouncement of him….

[Paula] White said, Trump is a come-from-nowhere figure elevated to leadership against all odds in order to do God’s will. She described Trump as a generous, humble man of “character and integrity” and vouched repeatedly for the state of his soul.

… horse pee….

Capra
Capra
4 years ago

Alan,

The self defense book seems pretty good, and I would have loved to have known the “Being Strangled (One Hand)” defense about 25 years ago.

The “you’ve picked up a hitchhiker” scenario is pretty dated though, and I think most women might need a scenario where the attacker is in the driver’s seat rather than her. Most of time, it seems like dudes insist on being behind the wheel. I also have a hard time following the bit about keeping your arm against your left side and twisting and having the reach to be able to hit someone in the passenger seat of a modern vehicle. I think the book assumes a bench seat with the attacker in the middle, whereas my car has bucket seats with a large console.

I feel like more attention needs to be paid to the aftermath. It shows the attacker bent over, but not how incapacitated they will be. Are these all “do it, and run like the wind,” or “do it, and for gods’ sakes, don’t let up till help arrives” – I’m assuming run like the wind, but if I don’t know how quick he gets up, that’s scary, turning your back on a now-angry dude to run.

Molloy, Moran, Malone
Molloy, Moran, Malone
4 years ago

Again, I can’t imagine…makes the fact that I avoid my hometown seem, ah, petty, to say the least. You may attribute it to luck, but it sounds like you’re an admirably strong person. Again, I ask you to pardon how cliche that must sound, but it’s true. And what’s more, you have what sounds like people that you can rely on in times of trouble. I’m happy just knowing that you feel secure and safe.

I could never work in retail. At least not as a cashier/greeter/etc. That much is absolutely certain; no quantity of anxiolytics could possibly flip that switch. Doubly so while I’m in the process of transitioning. (M->F). The thought of working at the Target in my hometown and giving all the peoplewho bullied me as a kid such a perfect opportunity for cruelty…yeesh, here’s hoping I won’t remember that thought later, when I’m trying to fall asleep.

I, too, have a job. I work in a lab. It’s significantly lower level than the job I had before I got doxxed. But It’s quiet, and I rarely interact with people. And anyway, you can’t just lock yourself inside your apartment for two and a half years, incapable of using a phone or writing an email without having severe panic attacks, and expect to pick up where you left off as if nothing happened. It’s good, though. It’s doable. I’m doing it. And that sure isn’t nothing.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
4 years ago

@Molloy, Moran, Malone

It’s good, though. It’s doable. I’m doing it. And that sure isn’t nothing.

Exactly. <3

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
4 years ago

feel like more attention needs to be paid to the aftermath. It shows the attacker bent over, but not how incapacitated they will be.

@ Capra;

You make a very good point. Most of the techniques illustrated here assume that getting out of the attacker’s grip means the end of the attack, which is decidedly NOT the case (and wasn’t when Fairbairn wrote the primer, either)

misophistry
misophistry
4 years ago

@Molloy, Moran, Malone

It sounds like you and me have a lot in common.

I wish I worked in a lab. But being seen and approved of in the community gives me a kind of strength. Whenever a customer says something nice to me I feel stronger. When a new customer comes in with kids and says to them “take your sweets to the nice till lady” I know I’m safely passing. I assume that some people have long enough memories to remember that I wasn’t always a nice till lady!

@Capra, yes the aftermath. I read a much longer book about SD once that went into detail. It’s all about the individual circumstance and location. If you felt like you wouldn’t be able to run to safety it suggested (amongst other things) stamping on their knee first.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
4 years ago

@MMM (is that an okay abbreviation?)

Well, it seems we’re unlocking your tragic backstory. That said, I’m glad that you live on in confidence.

Also, I’m starting to realize just how many trans women there are on here. Which is a lot. And I’m glad y’all came here!

AngryWarthogBreath
AngryWarthogBreath
4 years ago

@kupo

“I remember watching Batman and he asks Vicki Vale how much she weighs and she tells him 108. After the action scene he calls her out on this as being inaccurate. I knew that women lied about their weight because being fat is a bad thing. So I took that in as 108 is an acceptable weight, but more than that us fat.”

I was just thinking of that! It seriously rankles with me – “those silly women, they’ll lie about being an acceptable weight even when it REALLY MATTERS”. Apparently she actually weighs 121 lb, which… you’d have to be VERY DEDICATED to very harmful weight ideas to think that 121 lb is a horrifying amount of weight. (And there’s the standard point about how a lot of these men want women to weigh 108 lb AND have at least D-cup breasts, which… is possible, I suppose, but vanishingly unlikely, and probably quite bad for you.)

@Weird Eddie

“She described Trump as a generous, humble man of “character and integrity” and vouched repeatedly for the state of his soul.”

Oh, I can see how you get there easily. You can get character for $250,000, integrity for $300,000, or both for the discount price of $500,000. I wouldn’t expect that generous, humble man to actually end up paying the money, though.

@Molloy, Moran, Malone

“It’s good, though. It’s doable. I’m doing it. And that sure isn’t nothing.”

Absolutely agreed and much respect.

@Original Post

Maybe it’s the fact that they so rarely seem to want to apply empathy? But I’m always shocked at these SECRET RAID IDEA masters… they seem not to have learned the very basic idea of “I can hear it when you talk”. Quite apart from, yes, “I can’t stop lying about the Holocaust even when I’m pretending to be someone who cares.”

Capra
Capra
4 years ago

@ Weird Eddie:

You make a very good point. Most of the techniques illustrated here assume that getting out of the attacker’s grip means the end of the attack, which is decidedly NOT the case (and wasn’t when Fairbairn wrote the primer, either)

Thanks, you managed to make it much more succinctly than I did!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ misophistry

It seems a bit counter intuitive, but being told that there was nothing that a person could have done also helps. We’ve had that with some of the army blokes teaching. Unfortunately it’s not uncommon for victims to blame themselves somehow and keep thinking they should have done something or been more successful. But if some H2H expert Commando goes “Nah, I’d have been stuffed too, there’s no way out of that” it can alleviate that “What if…?” burden.

@ capra

I’ll try to avoid turning this into a seminar, but you’re very right about the aftermath. The preferred model now is one of total incapacitation. That’s not always an option of course; sometimes your best choice might just be to do a quick escape and scarper. There are some relatively quick ways of at least partially debilitating an attacker though. Side kicks to the knees can slow someone down, and there are a few techniques for breaking ankles, knees, or feet.

Leo
Leo
4 years ago

@Alan
Thanks for posting the manual.. : )

I’m interested that it says that it goes without saying that women should always know how to protect themselves. It goes somewhat against gendered expectations in suggesting that as an option (and the manual isn’t messing about, it’s pretty matter-of-fact), but also plays into them in suggesting that this is just the way things are and always will be. The obvious question is, who from? (and ‘why?’) The manual does know who, the assailant is ‘he’, and a male in the photographs. It’s apparently doubly necessary in wartime. Will she be defending herself from other women, I wonder? Hmm… I’m assuming they’re not expecting it to get to the point of invasion, and those aren’t the types of scenario focused on. It seems more as though she needs to defend herself, because less of the men of her country are around to do it, with it not quite fully sinking in for the writer that those men are who she’s protecting herself from and that maybe she’s safer with less men around.

I’d be worried that reacting like that to an unwanted hand on the knee (cinema more likely today than theatre, or perhaps public transport) would be perceived as an overreaction by most, and would be more likely to say something (Hands off?) first, if I didn’t freeze up. I wonder if it’s an attitude change, that back then there were maybe the hostile sexists who expected women to put up and shut up, and the benevolent ones who thought of course she had a right to defend her virtue (though ideally a man should do it for her). I’m disabled, might be able to pull off the umbrella techniques with my stick, but generally not optimistic about my chances in a confrontation physically, especially getting away. In any case, I’d be very doubtful I had the strength to stop an opponent for long even if I wasn’t disabled. A modern addition might be to use an alarm to facilitate escape?

No way would I pick up a hitchhiker, even if I could drive. The thing that really bugs me is getting taxis, especially late at night. I don’t like to worry too much, it’s not high probability, but a couple of drivers have hit on me, which was a bit weird.

The Orientalism in the bio is quite noticeable.