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Tiki Nazis march against white genocide, mosquitoes: Today in Tweets Early Edition

NOTE: IN THE WAKE OF TODAY’S EVENTS — A WHITE SUPREMACIST TERRORIST ATTACK ON COUNTERPROTESTERS THAT LEFT ONE DEAD — MY ORIGINAL GRAPHIC FOR THIS POST SEEMED INAPPROPRIATE SO I HAVE REMOVED IT

NOTE 2: I regret the flippant tone of this post. Last night these guys seemed like clowns and it felt good to watch them getting a thorough mocking. They still are clowns, but unfortunately clowns can do a tremendous amount of damage, as the current inhabitant of the White House reminds us every day.

My newer post on the terrorist attack is here.

By David Futrelle

On Friday night, a couple hundred Nazis and oh-I’m-not-really-a-Nazis marched through the largely empty University of Virginia campus in Charlottesville, many of them holding cintronella tiki torches aloft in what appears to have been an attempt to simultaneously fight white genocide and banish mosquitoes.

Of course, given that gender ratio was approximately 90 pasty white dudes per one Lauren Southern wannabe, it’s a safe bet that very few marchers actually “fought white genocide” after the march, if you know what I mean and I think you do.

Anyway, so they marched. And afterwards people dunked on them mercilessly on Twitter. Here are some highlights of both events.

https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/896295016284520448

The best part about this video? The Nazis who can’t remember which arm to “sieg heil” with. (The right arm, my dudes.)

This white lady seems nice:

The marchers were quite impressed with themselves:

https://twitter.com/captured_maiden/status/896213825476841472

But Tinkerbell was not exactly correct. Lots of people are laughing.

https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/896263840857554944

https://twitter.com/1stGrumpydude/status/896279571921633280

Nonetheless there were still those who insisted that this Nazi march was not really a Nazi march, I mean, what evidence is there that any of these guys are Nazis?

https://twitter.com/DOGGEAUX/status/896229184254521344

That said, the Nazis and Friends of Nazis did indeed act like the shitheads they are.

The truly brave souls? The small number of counterprotesters who found themselves surrounded by hundreds of Nazis.

Nazi dorks, fuck off!

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mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Axe

Hey, how are you? Sorry I never got back to you before when I said it’s on white people that more don’t work on their internalized racism; I was writing fast and I think I actually meant to say “implicit racism”. It’s on white people that more don’t work on their implicit racism. Or giving this thread, their completely explicit fucking asshole racism.

“THE ANSWER IS, OF COURSE, YES, BUT THE AMOUNT OF SHIT WE SHOULD GIVE IS MASSIVELY DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE AMOUNT OF SHIT WE ARE ASKED TO GIVE.”

I could get behind that.

“The problem I, and everyone else, has with ‘economic anxiety’ is that it’s intentionally a distractionary tactic.”

Sometimes it is a distractionary tactic. Sometimes it’s a dogwhistle. Sometimes it’s a relevant and legitimate discussion of a relevant problem.

“STOP TELLING ME I NEED TO DEVOTE MY SYMPATHIES TO CLETUS’ IMPENDING FORECLOSURE WHEN DESHAWN CAN’T LEAVE THE FUCKIN HOUSE WITHOUT BEING IN DANGER OF DEATH BY COP”

If I had to devote my sympathies to either Deshawn OR Cletus, of course I would devote my sympathies towards Deshawn, since Deshawn’s well being is in more immediate danger. In much the same way that I would devote my sympathies towards Deshawn even when Emily can’t get a promotion at the computer repair shop. Not getting a promotion doesn’t endanger Emily in the same way that death endangers Deshawn. Deshawn is the most pressing problem, by far.

I just don’t understand why we can’t devote our energies towards Cetus AND Deshawn in the same way that we devote our energies towards Emily AND Deshawn. I guess most of our arguments can be boiled down to just that.

And which brings me back to this point; why are we letting Nazis co-opt this issue?

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Axe

Hey, how are you? Sorry I never got back to you before when I said it’s on white people that more don’t work on their internalized racism; I was writing fast and I think I actually meant to say “implicit racism”. It’s on white people that more don’t work on their implicit racism. Or giving this thread, their completely explicit fucking asshole racism.

“THE ANSWER IS, OF COURSE, YES, BUT THE AMOUNT OF SHIT WE SHOULD GIVE IS MASSIVELY DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE AMOUNT OF SHIT WE ARE ASKED TO GIVE.”

I could get behind that.

“The problem I, and everyone else, has with ‘economic anxiety’ is that it’s intentionally a distractionary tactic.”

Sometimes it is a distractionary tactic. Sometimes it’s a dogwhistle. Sometimes it’s a relevant and legitimate discussion of a relevant problem.

“STOP TELLING ME I NEED TO DEVOTE MY SYMPATHIES TO CLETUS’ IMPENDING FORECLOSURE WHEN DESHAWN CAN’T LEAVE THE FUCKIN HOUSE WITHOUT BEING IN DANGER OF DEATH BY COP”

If I had to devote my sympathies to either Deshawn OR Cletus, of course I would devote my sympathies towards Deshawn, since Deshawn’s well being is in more immediate danger. In much the same way that I would devote my sympathies towards Deshawn even when Emily can’t get a promotion at the computer repair shop. Not getting a promotion doesn’t endanger Emily in the same way that death endangers Deshawn. Deshawn is the most pressing problem, by far.

I just don’t understand why we can’t devote our energies towards Cetus AND Deshawn in the same way that we devote our energies towards Emily AND Deshawn. I guess most of our arguments can be boiled down to just that.

And which brings me back to this point; why are we letting Nazis co-opt this issue?

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Oogly

“If I smoked for 50 years, and did it to spite anyone who asked me to stop, even knowing that my smoking is harming others far more than it does me, and even enjoying the fact that others are harmed by my second hand smoke, and then developed Lung Cancer, I don’t think I’d have anyone else to blame but myself.”

Blame blame blame.

I guess the doctors won’t treat my lung cancer, or the lung cancer of my family members. My family shares a genetic background with me after all.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Sick of the “white economic anxiety” canard to explain why racists are racist.

If Cletis is a white supremacist, I’m going to give him the same respect as those who defend him using the “white economic anxiety” dogwhistle to make it yet again all about themselves.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@mrex,

Sometimes it is a distractionary tactic. Sometimes it’s a dogwhistle. Sometimes it’s a relevant and legitimate discussion of a relevant problem.

Which is it in the case of a discussion about Nazis taking over America?

(Answer: it’s a distraction from the topic, to cover for their coup)

And what’s the purpose of an argument about ~economic anxiety~ in the middle of a discussion about those Nazis taking over America?

(Answer: it’s a fucking diversion from the topic, covering for their coup)

Is there a discussion to be had about the economic troubles in the Rust Belt and the South, specifically on poor white people? Sure. Should we sit down in our recliners and have that discussion while the Fascists march on Charlottesville? Fuck no.

As for why we can’t care for both Cletus and Deshawn – Cletus is the one beating Deshawn on the ground with sticks in Charlottesville. You no longer have the luxury of caring for both. Pick one.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Scild

As for why we can’t care for both Cletus and Deshawn – Cletus is the one beating Deshawn on the ground with sticks in Charlottesville. You no longer have the luxury of caring for both. Pick one

comment image

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Deandre “Dre” Harris.

That’s who I care for, right now.

Know who I don’t give a flying fuck about? Dan Borden and the other two white fucks that split his head open. Fuck their “economic anxiety”.

The only thing I want to hear is all three of them being denied bail, like that asshole Field was.

How fucking dare they.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I don’t give a fuck about the economic anxieties of these people at all.

Progressives argued for increased wages, unionization, robust social safety nets, student debt relief, regulation against predatory financial institutions and universal health care.

The Cletuses called us communists and clamored for low taxes. They voted for Republicans again and again. Their economic lives continue to not get better. They continue to vote for Republicans. Despite the fact that tax cuts for the rich have never resulted in trickle down wealth for the rest of us and never, ever will.

Either they didn’t bother to look at the facts. Or they were racist all along and using tax cuts as a cover. Either way, their “economic anxiety” such that is, is their own doing. If they don’t want to be seen as racist or aren’t actually, they can renounce the Republican party and join the progressives and work for economic policies that will actually help the 99% Or they can continue to support the Republicans and get called racist. The choice is theirs. Continuing to support Republicans and getting coddled is not a choice that is on the table. Republican voters took that choice of the table themselves when they voted in an openly bigoted candidate. Trump didn’t do the dog whistles. There is no plausible deniability anymore. They knew he was a bigot. They voted for him anyway. It’s not my job to feel bad for them anymore. If they want sympathy, they have to meet the left half way. They have to be worthy of it.

No amount of concern trolling is going to change this and it is a completely dishonest to claim that the Democrats or the progressives don’t talk about economic issues. Because we do. There is no point in continuing to tell us that poor white people exist in every conversation.

I’m starting to wonder if Mrex and Andy/Shapman should get married or something. They both seem to think that if we’re not discussing their particular pet issues 24/7 that we must not care about economic justice/male abuse victims/whatever other goalpost we’re supposed to reach with every post. They would be perfect together.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

In the run up to the election I might have given some credence to the economic anxiety argument. Then Jeremy Paxman did his documentary.

He went to a rust belt town. There was a family who’d been made bankrupt and now both wife and husband had two low paying jobs each to make ends meet.

Paxman went to the small steel works where the guy worked and asked him and his co-worker friends why they were voting for Trump.

“Gays have got marriage now but they still want more”

“You cant say some words any more”

Honestly, that was it. Someone with better net skills than me can probably find the relevant clip.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

🔑🔑🔑 Some people are Racists 🔑🔑🔑

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Scild

“And what’s the purpose of an argument about ~economic anxiety~ in the middle of a discussion about those Nazis taking over America?”

To be fair, I didn’t bring it up. Although I certainly bear the responsibility of keeping it going from Axe and EJ and kupo.

“(Answer: it’s a fucking diversion from the topic, covering for their coup)”

No, it’s a way to weaken white support for civil rights and to split the left.

If we force Cletus to believe he has to choose between protesting Deshawn’s murder and eating/supporting his children, the moral thing might be to sacrifice himself and his kid’s wellbeing for Deshawn’s life, but it’s not the human thing to do.

Point is; the whole thing is a false dichotomy anyway.

“Cletus is the one beating Deshawn on the ground with sticks in Charlottesville. You no longer have the luxury of caring for both. Pick one.”

If you are going to use Cletus as a metaphor of an economically anxious white then it’s not fair to have him beating Deshawn in Charlottsville. Most economically anxious whites aren’t active Nazis. And even if you boil all economically anxious whites down into racist Nazi Cletus, Emily in that case is also most likely a racist Nazi. I’m not going to stop fighting sexism, and most likely, neither are you.

@WWTH
“it is a completely dishonest to claim that the Democrats or the progressives don’t talk about economic issues.”

We could have a discussion about how effective Democrats have been in that regard, but that’s neither here nor there.

” They both seem to think that if we’re not discussing their particular pet issues 24/7 that we must not care about economic justice”

That’s not it. It’s the hostility I see toward’s Cletus’s economic issues that’s really the issue.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

Since it would appear my comment disappeared from the face of the thread:

@mrex

I could get behind that

Progress

Sometimes it is a distractionary tactic. Sometimes it’s a dogwhistle. Sometimes it’s a relevant and legitimate discussion of a relevant problem

No, it’s never legitimate. Maybe with a spherical Murica in a vacuum, but not here and not now. ‘Economic anxiety’ isn’t about jobs or housing prices. It’s about coddling, centering, and excusing Trump voters. Context matters, and, in our context, it’s simply a euphemistic justification for white supremacy. It’s no different from ‘ethics in games journalism’. Are there issues in that field? Yes. Is that phrase meant to discuss or solve those issues? Not remotely

I just don’t understand why we can’t devote our energies towards Cetus AND Deshawn in the same way that we devote our energies towards Emily AND Deshawn

It’s not about what we can do. Again, it’s what we’re being asked to do. Reusing a rhetorical device, the equivalent is ‘what about the mens?’ Do men have problems? Yes. And we’ll get to those. Eventually. But the phrase isn’t meant to bring up legit grievances. It’s used to coddle, center, and excuse

The reason we hated, and still hate, seeing ‘economic anxiety’ all over the place is that we rarely see similar sympathetic thinkpieces on Clinton supporters. Nobody’s tryna understand our anxieties. More ink has been spilled on West Virginia alone than the entire Northeast. And when we decide, since they aren’t gonna, to talk about our issues ourselves, the same people tell us to shut up about our ‘identity politics’. To quit rocking the boat, to reach across the aisle, to coddle, center, and excuse. ‘Fuck your economic anxiety’ is marginalized folks reasserting our right to our problems and our voices

And which brings me back to this point; why are we letting Nazis co-opt this issue?

We’re trying fuckin not to! How many times have you been told that Trump didn’t win the ‘economically anxious’ vote? On this blog alone. Trump voters make more money than Clinton’s, and they rated the economy as a far less pressing issue than did Clinton voters. We go on endlessly about how communities of color are historically and systematically kept in poverty. That the policies of the Republicans are the ones that impoverish ‘the heartland’

But then ‘White Liberals’ come in, try to shut us down, and scream over us that it’s wrong to say these things about the sainted ‘White Working Class’. We’re fuckin trying, but with allies like those…

I guess the doctors won’t treat my lung cancer, or the lung cancer of my family members. My family shares a genetic background with me after all

I don’t know what the fuck you think you’re doing, but you can have a seat. As many seats as you can stretch yourself across. Your doctor is a professional who took an oath to treat you. We are not. So, you can shove that back where it came from

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

Missing the cutoff…

@Alan

“In the run up to the election I might have given some credence to the economic anxiety argument. Then Jeremy Paxman did his documentary.”

Problem is that it’s not just race/gender/sexual orientation but race/gender/sexual orientation AND economic anxiety. Read the article I linked to Valentine.

Look, I’m queer, AND a woman, AND a single parent on the dole. These people probably would love to string me up to a fence and leave me to die. I wish I could just reduct it all down to “Nazi”, but I can’t.

@Axe

“It’s not about what we can do. Again, it’s what we’re being asked to do. Reusing a rhetorical device,”

“Economic anxiety” was a thing long before this shit all went down. “States rights” and “ethics in game journalism” were not.

“I don’t know what the fuck you think you’re doing, but you can have a seat. As many seats as you can stretch yourself across.”

Fine.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

My dog’s ears are bleeding.

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

Let me restate what I said to Axe.

“Economic anxiety” was an issue long before Nazi’s co-opted it for their own use. “States rights” and “ethics in game journalism” never were real issues to begin with.

That’s the difference between co-opting something legitimate to weaken your political opponents and between just inventing some complete bullshit just to dog whistle to your fellow Nazis.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

legitimate white complaint

Say what, now?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

We could have a discussion about how effective Democrats have been in that regard, but that’s neither here nor there.

Lets see. When they discuss the facts and the numbers, they’re “pointy headed intellectuals” that “Nascar dads and Joe the Plumbers” don’t want to have a beer with.

When they use emotional language and attack the Republicans, they’re soooo meeaaaan. Even though it’s okay when Republicans do it. Because reasons.

When they go Republican-lite in an effort to not scare away the bigoted traditional family values vote, they vote R anyway because why vote for the fake Republican when they get the real thing. The one who’s dead serious about bigotry family values.

When they say “forget the angry white guy and Evangelical vote” and try to build a coalition of everyone else instead, then it’s horrible because the poor, poor white menz and the bigoted economic anxiety voter aren’t being catered to. So they vote R. That’ll show us for being so mean.

It’s almost like the media and political establishment have an interest in protecting the status quo and are going to sell the narrative that progressives are hateful and out of touch with “real” Americans no matter what we do.

Since you seem to have found the way out of this knot and know how to attract the “economic anxiety” conservatives without completely throwing every marginalized group under the bus in the process, do tell. What would be effective? Don’t just tell us. Tell the DNC and DCCC too! I’m sure they’d love to hear the one neat trick to healing the nation!

Seriously though. What’s it going to take before people who vote for the leopards eating your face party actually are held accountable for the fact that they don’t have a face? How many times are they going to vote for the rich white guy who doesn’t make their lives any better, but does make the lives of marginalized people worse before they have a light bulb moment and realize that maybe they should make a different choice?

I’m pretty fucking sick of being blamed for other people’s choosing to be useful idiots again and again and again and again. They’ll either change or they won’t .

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Sorry i will just say again – economically anxious sounds like too much bullshit.

When you poor you are anxious? When PoC same poor and same ‘anxious’ they still can see for who they must vote. They still can see who will help to them.

Simply, what i am saying – being poor is no reason any voted for trump. They vote cos they racist, they vote cos they believe scarey lies from television, they vote because brown people look different and immigrants speak with strange accents. They vote because Trump has TV programme where he says ‘youre fired’. They vote because Trump is rude and says stupid garbage without using his brain – they like that, it is funny. They think it is cool because he ‘not like politicians’.

But that is because he is not politician. He is rich, selfish and only want to be in center of everything so he can feel like he has big dick and (because he is 70 years old now and death scares him) that he will live forever.

This is about trump for tump, he cares for no one. He don’t care for you if you vote for him or not vote for him. He don’t care for me living in this country his friend Putin tries to destroy. He don’t care for Syria.

‘Have you seen alleppo? Have you seen alleppo? Just terrible’

See up^ words of complete moron who can’t find alleppo on the map. This is your president.

Economic anxiety’s is bullshit.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

I suspect that the core argument is “we should worry about ~economic anxiety~ because calling them racists and bigots just shuts down the conversation.”

People with economic anxiety come in all colours and stripes. I’ve had good conversations about it. One of them has turned out to be an increasingly virulent alt-right supporter. Nothing I say to him about economic issues has or will budge him on racism or sexism. Listening to him get angry about how high his taxes are (they aren’t) or how he isn’t paid what he should be won’t fix this. Agreeing with him that our economy’s screwed up beyond belief doesn’t change the fact that he thinks we should stop accepting immigrants, and should let the Syrians die in their own country. Or that he thinks the problem is due to “political correctness” and “hiring quotas”.

I’ve shown him studies that show that immigration improves economies, and the economic standings of those communities with immigration. How immigrants reduce relative crime rates. How lowering taxes doesn’t fix economic issues outside of specific scenarios.This isn’t an abstract problem that he can be reasoned out of. They’ve seen those arguments, and they’ve already discounted them as being products of “liberal science”.

I don’t know how to tell him that he should have empathy for other human beings. But I do know that no amount of sympathy for his economic anxiety will make him change his tune. I tried that. It doesn’t work.

It’s damage control time. Protect people getting run over, getting beaten, getting shot. Make sure everyone’s safe and aware.

Also, @mrex, best of luck to you, too. I know what being a single parent is like – my sister’s in a very similar scenario and she’s had some really rough times.

Please consider that the fact that your anxiety about money could be colouring your perspective on why they’re acting like they are! That’s a primacy effect that brains have, similar to the “projection” phenomenon. Your brain projects your feeling onto others. It’s a function of how the brain works. Please consider that this may be happening to you!

Also @Axe, thank you for your comments over the past few weeks. I feel like I’ve woken up a bit over this while, and your comments are in no small part responsible. Thank you.

🔑

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

If someone throws you out of a lifeboat and steals your place then that’s horrible but perhaps understandable.

If someone just sets fire to the lifeboat because they want to see you drown then that’s just horrible.

Especially if they weren’t even on the ship that was sinking.

(Or there was enough room in the lifeboat for both of you? Still working on the analogy.)

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@WWTH

“Since you seem to have found the way out of this knot and know how to attract the “economic anxiety” conservatives”

You say they’re “conservative” like every last one of them is not just following whatever tide benefits them most. Surely you’ve noticed how inconsistent their beliefs are. Many are opportunists, not philosophers.

“do tell. What would be effective? Don’t just tell us. Tell the DNC and DCCC too! I’m sure they’d love to hear the one neat trick to healing the nation!”

Sure!

Stop jumping into bed with the face eaters, and stop demanding cookies for not being Nazis.

Because the Republican’s aren’t the largest face eaters, the banks and coorporations behind them are. Just because the republican’s do far more damage doesn’t absolve the Dems of who their friends are.

@Valentine

Go and watch 5 seconds of conservative TV and it’s all about how Democrats are wolves. Watch liberal TV, and it’s all about how conservatives are wolves. Everyone’s convinced that they’re the sheep, and the other side is all wolves.

And meanwhile the real wolves dine from the shadows.

[Edit]

@Schild

“Please consider that the fact that your anxiety about money could be colouring your perspective on why they’re acting like they are! That’s a primacy effect that brains have, similar to the “projection” phenomenon. Your brain projects your feeling onto others. It’s a function of how the brain works. Please consider that this may be happening to you!”

Hey. Point taken.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Because the Republican’s aren’t the largest face eaters, the banks and coorporations behind them are. Just because republican’s do far more damage doesn’t absolve Dems of who their friends are.

I already explained that the Dems who speak out against banking, get called commies. Have you noticed how the right talks about Elizabeth Warren.

Republican voters aren’t actually against banks. They may have some small slight awareness that the financial industry screws them over, but every time they oppose any small attempt to regulate them. It’s communism according to them. If they had a problem with Dems being in bed with banks, they wouldn’t vote for Repubs who get exponentially more funding from that industry.

Do you think you’re the first one to ever think of telling poor and middle class white swing/Republican leaning voters that the banks are hurting them?

For all your claims that we’re the ones of touch and how you understand the “economic anxiety” Trump voter, you sure seem to have never talked politics with a Republican in your entire life.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

And meanwhile the real wolves dine from the shadows.

Oi fuck – it is not about liberal and democrat. I didn’t write that. Read again what i wrote – they make you scared of those things, or maybe already you scared and then racist politicians who already exist are solution to this things.

There are no wolves in the shadows. This is nonsense, something like i would say when i am 13years old and think there is ‘secret government’ – there is no. Government just shit and corrupted and full with greedy people.

It is obvious how they make you scared. No one scare of democrats – and i didn’t say that. No one votes for republican or trump because they scared of democrats​. You misunderstood me.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@mrex

“Economic anxiety” was a thing long before this shit all went down

It really wasn’t. I mean, if you define “this shit” as Trumpism, sure. Buy why would you? ‘Economic anxiety’ was used to elect Bush Jr. And Bush Sr. And Reagan. And Nixon. White people have always used econ to excuse their racism. Slavery, manifest destiny, the know nothings, the red scares, etc etc. “This shit” started in 1615, not 2015. This is just the most recent, ugly permutation

I wish I could just reduct it all down to “Nazi”, but I can’t

My thing tho, why is it so important to you that we accept your economic anxiety narrative? What do you want us to do with that acceptance? None of us are against progressive economic policy. We’re all in favor of improving healthcare and wages and creating infrastructure and jobs and providing robust welfare programs. I’m not saying ‘fuck the economy’, I just don’t much care for Trump voters’ feelings about the economy. It would seem to me like the least objectively important thing about Cletus’ situation is his insistence that it’s Obama’s fault. Fuck his anxiety. We’re gonna work on the issues, economic or otherwise, of the marginalized. Maybe Cletus gets to keep his house as a result. Good for him, but forgive me for not being particularly bothered either way

@Valentine

immigrants speak with strange accents

To be fair, and no offense, I can’t help reading your posts in a very stereotypical eastern European accent. It’s bad. Difference being, I understand that 1)talking weird isn’t a bad thing and 2)I probably talk weird to you 😀

@Scild

I don’t know how to tell him that he should have empathy for other human beings. But I do know that no amount of sympathy for his economic anxiety will make him change his tune. I tried that. It doesn’t work

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

thank you for your comments over the past few weeks. I feel like I’ve woken up a bit over this while, and your comments are in no small part responsible. Thank you

comment image

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

Missed the cutoff

“Also, @mrex, best of luck to you, too. I know what being a single parent is like – my sister’s in a very similar scenario and she’s had some really rough times.”

Thanks. 🙂

Things are actually going well enough for me right now financially, well I certainly feel better than a few months ago. Lot’s of people aren’t so lucky though, and lets see if I can still say that 6 months from now. 🙂

Also, I’m in therapy again thanks to you and POM. Thanks to you both for holding my feet to the fire. Actually, I should thank literally everyone here just for having to put up with me.

But enough about me. 🙂

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Axe, i read your posts and english with British accent which is even more wrong! But because most true English-speaker people i know are British. So actually i think it is funny how you hear me in your head. Sometimes if i listen too much to one person then i read and think with how that person is speaking. For example, maybe some days i will read your words how my captain speaking – he is German! 🙈 Not good when we talk about Nazis….

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Axe

Hey.

“White people have always used econ to excuse their racism. Slavery, manifest destiny, the know nothings, the red scares, etc etc. “This shit” started in 1615, not 2015. This is just the most recent, ugly permutation”

You’re right. I actually never put those things together. My two braincells have now made a connection between themselves!

“My thing tho, why is it so important to you that we accept your economic anxiety narrative?”

Let me go have a think on the above, and I’ll come back to this?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I suspect that the core argument is “we should worry about ~economic anxiety~ because calling them racists and bigots just shuts down the conversation.”

Which is funny, because in the US, progressives have mostly taken the high road and have avoided speaking so harshly about Republicans in the past. This is true of all but the far left. The anarchists, the antifa and the like. Democratic politicians, Democratic voters, progressive activists, progressives who don’t think the Dems are liberal and vote for them anyway, Green party voters, etc.

This recent turn that liberals have taken is a result of Trumpism. It has finally sunk in that taking the high road isn’t working. It’s only emboldening the right. We treated the right with humanity, they paid us back by acting like monsters while declaring that it is we who are monsters. This new anger on the left is a reaction to that.

It’s simply bizarre to me that people are reacting to that anger by suggesting that we should try being nice to Republicans. We should always reach out, no matter how many times they slap our hands away.

How do these concern trolls know that calling the right bigoted and racist won’t help? It’s only been tried for less than a year. Decades of stigmatizing smoking and making it unacceptable to do in public has caused not all smokers to stop, but it has caused many to. Perhaps several years of shaming Republican voters and tying that vote to white nationalism and misogyny will eventually get those voters who claim they are voting R for reasons other than bigotry to stop voting for the GOP.

I suspect the push back against shaming Donald Trump’s voters isn’t because people are afraid it won’t work. They’re afraid that it will. I doubt there is anything more terrifying to the status quo than a pissed off and galvanized left.

Either way, coddling them has not worked so we have no other option than to use shame.

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@WWTH

“Republican voters aren’t actually against banks. They may have some small slight awareness that the financial industry screws them over, but every time they oppose any small attempt to regulate them. It’s communism according to them. If they had a problem with Dems being in bed with banks, they wouldn’t vote for Repubs who get exponentially more funding from that industry.”

“Republican voters” are not a hive mind.

If you want to generalize about the devout Republican, I’d say they’re split on banks in the faarrr right, but pretty much all devout Repubs view individual rich people as paternal figures who’s economic fortunes influence their own. Anything that hurts the rich, hurts their own economic interests.

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

[Edit]

But to actually finish that thought, not all republican voters are that devout towards the rich/banks.

[Edit edit]

People were shaming the right long before Trump won.

I’m actually fine with shaming the right. Shaming does not mean that we become hostile to their plight, or the plights if everyone that just so happens to be next to them.

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

In other words…

@Schild

“I suspect that the core argument is “we should worry about ~economic anxiety~ because calling them racists and bigots just shuts down the conversation.””

It’s not about calling them out on their racism/sexism/ect., but about ONLY focusing on their racism/sexism/etc and shutting down the conversation about economic anxiety.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@wwth – just want to say that you’ve nailed something that’s been on my mind (again).

This recent turn that liberals have taken is a result of Trumpism. It has finally sunk in that taking the high road isn’t working. It’s only emboldening the right. We treated the right with humanity, they paid us back by acting like monsters while declaring that it is we who are monsters. This new anger on the left is a reaction to that.

It’s simply bizarre to me that people are reacting to that anger by suggesting that we should try being nice to Republicans. We should always reach out, no matter how many times they slap our hands away.

I actually have you and the other commenters here to thank for my no longer subscribing to this “Oh we have to be NICE” bs. I don’t apologize for calling out bullshit anymore, at least, not like I used to. Because fuck ’em.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

I hear @Valentine’s voice in my uncle’s voice. His family is from Ukraine, they immigrated in the late 1800’s. Ohmigosh, i want pierogi, they make fantastic homemade ones and they are delicious. Absolutely swimming in butter, too, but well. That’s how they’re done.

@mrex, it sounds like a lightbulb might have just turned on for you. Go have a think! It took me a long time to grapple with my own racism, and I still do. Don’t be afraid of embarrassment. I’m glad your financial situation’s stable and healthier now.

@Axe,

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@WWTH

The push back against shaming Donald Trump’s voters isn’t because people are afraid it won’t work. They’re afraid that it will.

I want this embroidered on a pillow <3

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Scjild, your uncle was Doukhobor Christian? But i don’t understand, if his family came in 1800, why is his accent Ukrainian? Should be Canadian, unless he is very old when you know him…

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@mrex

“Republican voters” are not a hive mind.

Republican voters put white supremacy first. All of them. Every single last one. The Republican party is the party of white supremacy, and has been since Nixon. White supremacy is all they have to offer, it is the basis for their every policy position. Yes, even the bit about taxes. So yes, I categorically condemn all Republicans. They are white supremacists, every one. So are people who make excuses for them.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

@Valentine, not Doukhobor, just Ukrainian. Canada advertised all over Europe for settlers during the 1800’s to help settle the west. There are very large Ukrainian centres all over Alberta. I mean, we have a town with one of the world’s largest pierogi:

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/NewStories-A/CanadianMiGs/MiGStory23.jpg

And the world’s largest kielbasa:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/34887009.jpg

One of the worlds’ largest pysanka:
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and our universities often feature history and cultural courses on Ukrainian heritage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Ukrainian_Canadian_Studies

So if you ever get a chance to visit, please do! You will find that you are close to our hearts out here in Canada!

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

It took me a long time to grapple with my own racism, and I still do.

This is true for me as well. It is something I have to look at daily, and I doubt I will ever be fully free of it – but I’m aware of it and working to negate its influence every day.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Scjild, i hope one day my ship will come to Canada. And i see everything is biggest there ;)))

Recently Canadian police or army came in Ukraine​. Some diplomatic visit and i think also for training ua police but i don’t know 100%. My internet is slow and also I broke my phone so no more twitter ((( i know UA and Canada have good relations but not any about Canadian history.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Racism and sexism is free. Doesn’t cost these bigots one fucking thin dime.

Excusing them because of “economic anxiety”, especially when it’s framed as “white economic anxiety” just revolts me on so many levels.

@Scildfreya,

I am so glad you told me that was a pierogi. I had no clue what that was at first, and my mind…wandered.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

OT Confederate Statue Torn down.

#BREAKING Protesters in #Durham topple confederate monument downtown
https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825
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The best part about that vid, people of all races are kicking it.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Peevee

Racism and sexism is free. Doesn’t cost these bigots one fucking thin dime.

That’s not actually true; it’s been hamstringing the national economy since forever. This has been masked at various periods by rapacious overexploitation of formerly abundant natural resources, but those are running out now. White supremacy is why we have to pay out of pocket for health care, that costs us a fortune. It’s why there’s point of use fees for every government service. It’s why we have to own cars to get anywhere, at often ruinous expense. It is, in fact, at the bottom of literally every single shitty economic move this country has ever made, and boy howdy the costs of that shit in dollars and cents adds up fast. Trouble is, white supremacists are willing to live under a bridge eating pigeons roasted on coathangers, as long as black people haven’t got a bridge or a pigeon. (not my line, I forget where I saw it)

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

@Valentine, I hope you can come visit too! If by ship you will likely come to Halifax, which is a gorgeous city and brimming over with fun. A very nice place to spend a week.

Our military is over there for something called UNIFIER. According to that page, we’ve been sending about $700M since 2014 to help with the problems you are having there. Non-lethal military equipment, explosives disposal stuff, a mobile field hospital, training teams, etc.

I know a lot of people who have whined that we shouldn’t be spending money to help other countries, but as far as I’m concerned it’s money well spent!

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

I appreciate a lot of the things you say here, too @Dalillama. You open my eyes to a lot, thank you. I completely agree with how deeply rooted the white supremacist problem is.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Dali,

I mean it does not cost any particular individual a fucking dime to have these fucking views.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Dali,

Pardon the cursing; it’s not directed at you.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
3 years ago

@Dalillama
The quotes from the right to work supporters. The attitudes about non-whites could be transplanted right to modern attitudes among racists. The economic fear people have it wrong and I would argue backwards. The racism and misogyny are more fundamental problem than economics in terms of fucked up reasoning and pervasiveness of social damage.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
3 years ago

@Dalillama
The racism and the misogyny were more important than the economics I mean. I have to practice it. And I’m sure there are more bits to remember that we are trying to coherently pull out.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Peevee
Fair point, simply holding white supremacist views requires no monetary buy in.

@Brony

The attitudes about non-whites could be transplanted right to modern attitudes among racists.

Yup, and equally well to the 19th or even 18th century as well.

The racism and the misogyny were more important than the economics I mean.

They cause pretty much all of the economic problems, yes.

And I’m sure there are more bits to remember that we are trying to coherently pull out.

On how racism and misogyny are tied to economic fuckery? I could write a fucking book. Lemme know if you want more examples.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

@WWTH:

We treated the right with humanity, they paid us back by acting like monsters while declaring that it is we who are monsters. This new anger on the left is a reaction to that.

Good.

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