By David Futrelle
Pretty much any time a dude says anything vaguely positive about feminism, or women, or a particular woman online, some idiot will pop up to accuse him of being a “white knight” who’s only pretending to be feminist in order to get laid.
And while, yes, there is a certain subset of skeezy dudes who do pull this crap (Lush’s Ladykillers video skewers them expertly) this accusation is mostly just a way for antifeminists to put feminist dudes on the defensive — and to keep from acknowledging that, yes, lots of people, including men, actually support feminism on its merits.
This early 20th century anti-Suffrage postcard reminds us again just how hackneyed the cries of “white knight” really are.
To put this postcard in a little context, here are some other anti-suffrage postcards from around the same time. You may notice that some of their “arguments” are similar to those of 21st century antifeminists as well.
@ amy
I hope you don’t kill yourself. I’ve been there. To echo the slogan, “It gets better.” Please feel free to lean on the community here.
@amy
One more thing I want to add: if you’re anything like me, you’ll feel awkward/self-conscious about posting again after posting that. It’s okay. We won’t judge you. Don’t feel weird. <3
@amy it really wasn’t that long ago – the beginning part of 2017 – that I felt fairly similar , including unspecified suicidal ideation, but I got some help and I’m feeling a million times better. My life is changing. I found someone really cool who I really, really, really like and he makes me really happy*. I feel more on top of things and I’m enjoying life again and the things that make me happy – including rugby, friends, going out, art, etc. And I’m remaking my garden – which is the number 1 indicator of depression for me – happy mentally healthy me – beautiful garden, mentally unwell me, neglected garden.
The key for me was finding the right medication, which I’m not gonna lie, wasn’t easy and MAY also be linked to appropriate levels of thyroid medication, too (i.e. checking out and treating any underlying physical illness which can manifest mental illness – I’ve recently had the best levels of thyroid hormone since being diagnosed).
The way women are treated still makes me angry but it doesn’t make me despondent.
I know that what I’m describing probably feels 100% unobtainable for you right now with the way you’re feeling, but you CAN enjoy life again, I promise. I won’t promise you that it’s an easy ride to getting there.
____
* a romantic relationship is NOT the cure for depression, but I firmly believe that I could not have pursued this relationship if I’d been as depressed when I met him as I had been.
Anna:
My not very expert interpretation:
Many toxic asshole type guys tend to think that any mainstream type decency towards women constitutes “white knight” or “mangina” behavior. (They might not call it feminism because stereotypically only women are feminists.) They think decency towards women isn’t naturally easy for men, therefore it must be strategic behavior.
As a man, being a feminist or just decent person will not get me laid – but it probably gives me better chances than being a toxic asshole would. Toxic assholes tend to deny this, thinking any decency is wasted on women.
They might think I’m being a sleazebag when I “strategically” treat women as people. However, this presumed sleaziness is not why they scorn “white knight” behavior. Rather, they think I’m a fool because I’m still not getting laid.
I posted that last night after midnight sometime so I’m sorry if I left anyone hanging. I’m in Canada.
This morning I woke up feeling a bit better, and you’re right, I may have posted about these feelings here before. It feels safe.
It wasn’t this article or the comments that made me feel bad. I came here specifically because it was the best place I could think of to come online to talk about it. You seem to know how to not take the abuse personally and I want to learn that skill.
I’ve been in a suicide dilemma that lasted about 5 months through the winter and has been surfacing every few weeks this summer. I’ve been hospitalized twice for it over the year and am currently receiving some treatment. Every few weeks I feel internal pressure to kill myself. Usually, these feelings occur after the hours the stores are closed and therefore I lack tools, although I have tried stuffing things into my tailpipe and turning on the engine with the fan on, which doesn’t work.
The feelings are usually about being inadequate for being female or insulted by the media and things online. It seems like there are so many people who want to hurt women and it makes me feel both scared and victimized. I also struggle with a lack of support in my life. My two best friends both suffer from mental illness and I’m seen as the strong one. It can be difficult to know who to reach out to because one of them is very used to relying on my emotional support and not vice versa, while the other sometimes may become offended by my perspective and my attempt to reach out can turn into an argument.
Sometimes when I go online it seems like an evil force has come into my room to taunt me and dare me to hurt myself. The evil force consists of all these men and (some) women who spend their energy denying inequality while simultaneously perpetuating it. Combined with that are news articles about missing women and sexual violence and murder. It feels so heavy. I am still grieving over losing a family member to violence. I am confused by the intention of some of the news articles that seem to glorify the violence with perverse enjoyment, including the news articles written about my lost family member and the way she was brought out of the world.
I’m okay right now. I don’t feel like killing myself this moment, but I expect I will again. Life is something I seem to have to survive these days and I didn’t expect life to be like this. It’s very disappointing for me.
Thank you for the support you have given. I don’t mean to worry anyone or to take up too much attention. I know if I call a help line they will send the police to my door. Last time I was locked in an empty room with a camera on me for three days and it’s very embarrassing. They took away my bed sheets and got mad at me for sleeping with a shirt over my face. (maybe they thought I was trying to suffocate myself?) I felt like I was a child to them and they seemed kind of aggressive.
@amy–echoing everyone else’s good wishes. Take good care, and call on this group for assistance–they are good folks.
The expression on the fifty-year-old suffragette with the hatchet makes me laugh and laugh. That’s how I often feel by the end of the day. Hatchet and all.
@amy
Ah, that is a difficult skill to learn. What helps me is to focus on breathing slowly (this helps keep the heart rate down, which helps you control some of the automatic panic response your body is getting into) and repeat to myself, “this isn’t about me.” Those MRAs aren’t angry at me, even when they come on here and target me specifically. They’re angry at society for the way it taught them to feel entitled to things they can’t have. They’re angry at themselves for not meeting their own expectations. They’re angry at their ex-partners for not being what they wanted them to be. They’re angry at any number of things. But they’re not angry at me.
It’s a little more difficult when they seem like they’re directly angry at me. Especially when it’s in person. But that’s not my problem. That’s their problem. And I just have to remind myself that it’s on them.
I’m sorry about your experience when calling a help line. I don’t know if that’s a typical experience and don’t feel comfortable giving any advice around that. I just want you to know that it sucks that you were treated that way.
And don’t worry about taking up too much attention or worrying us. I know with friends it’s hard because they start to get worn out if you lean on them too heavily. They even start to call you too dramatic if you lean on them too much, or assume you’re “just doing it for attention” (whatever the hell that means; of *course* you need attention if you’re hurting, and if they give a damn they’ll give it to you). The great thing about this community is that there are so many of us. If one of us gets fatigued there are three more to jump in and offer whatever support we’re able. Don’t feel guilty about taking advantage of that.
@amy – I’m so, so sorry about your lost family member. And I’m sorry that you’re hurting. The media does sensationalize these incidents, mainly for ratings, without thinking about the real human lives behind their headlines. Clickbait has turned journalism into a race to the bottom. I wish the MSM would take responsibility for connecting the dots on the stories they report, and place them in a larger societal context. We’ve had way too many “lone wolf” right-wing mass shooters in the last several years.
I’m sorry, too, that sometimes these guys get inside your head and assume the shape of your worst fears. They’re Boggarts. If you remember your Harry Potter, the most effective spell against them is “Riddikulus!” (aka “women are afraid men will kill them, men are afraid women will laugh at them”. At least our weapon doesn’t require a permit, and is only harmful to those who deserve it.) Behind every one of these sneering online bullies, I guarantee you, there’s an angry man who’s feeling insecure about his own attractiveness and sexual flaws. Like Harry Potter, you can take back power and reduce their scariness by picturing them any way you want to: eating Cheetos, wearing boxers covered with little hearts, being told to take out the trash by their mom. This is the internet, after all.
It’s hard not to get sucked in and feel overwhelmed sometimes. Despite the absurdity of the sad sacks who strut around flaunting it, misogyny is very real, and has the potential to be lethal. We do need to stay vigilant and not dismiss it as a joke.
I hope you can find the support you need. WHTM is a safe place, full of good, caring people. Sending you virtual warm fuzzies, and hugs if wanted.
@Amy
I’m so glad your okay. You do have value and worth, and I hope you can remember that. I’ll just echo what everyone else has said though and Internet hugs if you want them.
amy, thank you so much for coming back again today! š
I feel like kupo said about the sheer number of good people around here, sometimes it’s just good to drop by and read and enjoy the feeling of being in a place where people are decent (and funny and smart and all those other things too). for rl, I don’t know anything about how this works in Canada but maybe others here know more about how to find support that’s actually supportive and not just about calling the police :-((((( I’m sorry that was all they felt they could do/were legally obliged to do š
Amy,
So glad to hear back from you, and glad you’re feeling a bit better. We’re all on your side.
Like opposibletumbs I’m wondering if there are any Canadians here who know about numbers to call or other support services that won’t mean police coming to your door.
Glad you’re feeling better, Amy.
I can share my coping mechanism but I don’t know how useful it would be to anyone else.
I watch a lot of horror movies and read or watch other things with dark subject matter. It allows me let out my negative feelings in a controlled way where I keep some distance from it because it’s fiction. For whatever reason, it makes compartmentalizing a lot easier for me.
But I’m not sure if that’s a thing for other people. Maybe I’m just a weirdo.
@amy: Hi I’m also a depressed person who is slowly sliding into numb emotional nihilism right about now with the current world climate.
Now, I had to do a whole fucking life reset (the anniversary of which is coming up soon!) by moving across the continent, but before that, I would reach out to people, like you’re doing now, and ask them for help! You’re very brace for asking for help beating back the darkness, even if all one could provide is a metaphorical stick.
So, here’s a stick that might work for you: write down all the things you would miss if you died. I personally did this when I couldn’t get a hold of a friend.
It can be anything, “smallness” doesn’t matter. I wrote down things like “I would miss new Monster High dolls”, or “I wouldn’t get to see the Deadpool movie” or “I wouldn’t get to adopt a cat who needs a loving home”.
And the more I wrote, the better I felt. Because I then had things to look forward to.
And those little things, those little sticks, all bundle together into a great big bludgeon to beat back the dark with.
EDIT: Glad to hear you’re feeling better!
@wwth
I sometimes use dark movies/TV shows to cope. Or super fantasy/sci-fi ones that let me escape into another world. One of my favorites for dealing with grief is Stay. It has Ewan McGregor, so that’s always a plus, the subject matter is dark, and it’s disjointed and has little details scattered throughout to the point where I pick up something new each time I watch it. I get really obsessive over it when I’m in a dark place.
@Paradoxy
That’s an excellent idea, I may try that next time it hits me.
I’m glad you are feeling better Cindy!
@wwth: You are not alone. I watch horror films when I am miserable. last year when I was going through a prolonged bout of severe depression caused by circumstances beyond my control I watched every single Nightmare on elm Street, Halloween, Hellraiser and Texas Chainsaw movies. Old and reboots. It really helped me through that period. Also one particularly bad saturday I watched all seven Saw films in one long marathon.
@Amy and other fellow Canadians
Something that’s been very helpful that’s been coming out these past few years is the concept of the “Warm Line” – a pre-crisis line to talk to people when you’re pre-crisis (or even in crisis, they have training to help in both to my knowledge because often one may turn into the other), or just need someone to talk to. There are different lines depending on what part of Canada you live in. One even has a website with the ability to do online chatting instead of over the phone.
http://www.warmline.ca/
The Northern Ontario Warm Line run by NISA – 1-866-856-9276(WARM)
Toronto Mental Health Helpline/Warmline – 416-960-9276
Ontario Free Mental Health Services information line – 1-866-531-2600
And here’s a website with a comprehensive list of crisis lines for various countries, and it starts with Canadian ones by province – http://www.yourlifecounts.org/need-help/crisis-lines
On a personal note, my heart goes out to you Amy. Like others, I’ve been there. Sometimes it’s so hard to see past the pain, and when I was at my worst, seeing that far ahead just felt too overwhelming because EVERYTHING felt overwhelming and I couldn’t handle it. Sometimes, all you can do is take it baby steps. Make it through ten minutes. Then make it half an hour. Then an hour. Then half a day. Then a day. Add more time when you feel better about coping a short time. Something else I’ve had to do at times is unplug, at least from websites that I found triggering. Not permanently, just for a while until I had the spoons to come back. But that’s me, everyone has things that work for them and not for others.
Good luck *hugs*
I’d like to repeat my usual recommendation of “Staplerfahrer Klaus” as a wonderful safety video/horror movie hybrid. It’s originally in German, but I think there’s a few subtitled/redubbed versions.
Starts out with new forklift driver Klaus getting his approval license to drive a forklift. There’s a voice over giving safety tips to new drivers, complete with examples of what might happen if you forget to follow them.
By the end, well, I don’t want to give too many spoilers, but it’s extremely gory for a “safety video”. It might even help a forklift driver remember to follow the safety requirements.
Funnily enough I do have a weight exactly like that (when I moved into my flat in 2000 there was weight to anchor the ladder that was in a cupboard up through which there was a way onto the roof), and I HAVE dropped it on my foot! Fortunately it wasn’t a direct hit,but it still left it very bruised and painful.
I was called a White Knight when I left a couple of unflattering comments on the Incel subreddit. They immediately blocked me too. My name on Reddit is Shelob which I thought was a clear indication that I am (likely to be) a woman I was surprised, can women be White Knights?
I AM a lesbian, so maybe I ‘defend’ other women so that I can have sex with them! Those random women that I will never meet and do not know the sexual orientations of!
I wasn’t even defending women – I just told them that they were absurdly self pitying and that I hoped that one day they would be thoroughly embarrassed.
Back on the original topic, I just noticed how the second-to-last one (with the woman reading the sports section of the newspaper and smoking a stogie while the man minds the baby and darns the stockings) is essentially illustrating that men were afraid that if women got the vote they would treat men the way that men treated women. Funny that.
I am so sorry Amy! I have trouble with my phone switching words, and names aparently. I am glad you are feeling better! I need to get into better editing habits.
@amy
That was probably a painful thing to see after the way you have been feeling. I know I can’t take it back but I wanted you to know that I’m trying to take a lesson from this and put a better apology on the screen after thinking about what happened. I am so sorry. If I can do something to help I will. But if not that’s the last I’ll say.
@Brony
Speaking of phones, I did try the adblock browser again and it seems to have resolved most of my issues, so you may want to try it.
@kupo
That’s not the only one that shows what men really fear.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1284759/thumbs/o-ANTISUFFRAGIST-570.jpg