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The Daily Stormer praises alleged “honor killer” of London teen for “defending his race”

“Honor killing” victim Celine Dookhran (Modified photo from Twitter)

By David Futrelle

Andrew Anglin, publisher of the neo-Nazi tip sheet DailyStormer.com, doesn’t usually have many nice things to say about Muslims, especially Muslims living in the West. But he’s made an exception of two young Londoners, Mujahid Arshid, and Vincent Tappu.

What makes these two fellows “honorable,” in Anglin’s eyes? Arshid has been charged with the brutal rape and murder of 19-year-old Celine Dookhran and the kidnapping, rape and attempted murder of another young woman who survived her assault; Tappu has been charged in the kidnapping of both women. According to prosecutors, the two were enraged that Dookhram, of Indian descent, was planning to marry an Arab man.

And so, while acknowledging that the violence inflicted upon these two women was “gruesome,” Anglin actually praises the alleged killer and his accomplice for their “hardcore defense of [their] race.”

In a recent post on The Daily Stormer (archived here), Anglin declares

the men who did it were defending their race, and as extreme and gross as the act was, you have to have a little bit of respect for them.

Reveling in the bloody details of the crime, Anglin writes admiringly that

These guys kidnapped women of their own race and raped them, and after one escaped with her throat half-slit, they chopped the other up and stuffed her in a freezer.

Because the women were race-mixing.

Anglin goes on to urge white men in the west to emulate the two — at least up to a point.

So I’m just going to throw this out there: imagine if white men cared this much about their own women race-mixing. …

I’m certainly not implying White men should be kidnapping White female race-mixers, raping them and chopping them up and shoving them in freezers for fucking n***ers. Although honestly, I wouldn’t feel bad if that happened, it is more than our women would require to get back in line.

Instead of murdering “race-mixing” white women, Anglin suggests that white men simply harass them viciously in public.

If we had a movement to shame these whores, that would go a long, long way. If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

You can’t get in trouble for that. Her buck is not going to attack you in a Walmart, and if he does he’ll be arrested and it will get in the media. Which is good. They won’t print your name, because you are the victim, but they will say that you made a “racially insensitive comment about the woman’s mixed race relationship.”

You can also yell from your car. If you see women with someone of another race, slow down, roll down your window and yell: “n***er-fucking whore! What does your father think????”

Just start doing this.

Now. …

If you look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore, she will remember that for the rest of her life.

Do it.

Once again, it seems the main difference between American neo-Nazis and the Islamist fanatics they so often denounce are the colors of their respective skins.

H/T — FSTDT.com

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epitome of incomprehensibility

@Still Fiqah – Yes. This bears repeating:

The lives we could save by just divesting from the notion that women and children are property.

Apologies if a derail, but what’s the issue with Anglin having a learner’s permit? Where I live cars aren’t a huge deal, and I know many people who are trying to use them less: e.g. a friend deliberately went from having a car to car-less, just renting when needed; my parents went from gas car to electric; and I’ve been an adult for 11 years and can’t drive at all (more due to wimp-itude than environmental convictions, but anyway).

Is having a car and being able to drive usually a big deal in the US? More so in some states than others? How about in cities vs. the country? In many places it’s practically impossible to get anywhere without a car, so that could factor in. But I’m also curious about it as a whole social-status thing.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
3 years ago

If we had a movement to shame these whores, that would go a long, long way. If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?

Unfortunately they don’t apply this just to interracial couples where a White woman dates a POC. My sister has been harassed for dating a White man before.

It’s not like they could do much either because the guy was a cop. Leave it to conservatives to be disgusting people. They are one of the reasons I moved back to Peru.

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

Ugh, what do your parents think of you, Anglin? Is your mother proud to have a son who would be absolutely giddy over her being raped and murdered if it served to push forward your sexist, racist, ignorant agenda?

Fucking ghoul.

Wolverine's granddad (formerly Kevin)
Wolverine's granddad (formerly Kevin)
3 years ago

@Venice: You win the Internet today.

@WWTH: Looks like there’s some mileage in the ‘girl in every port’ reputation of sailors then…

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Is having a car and being able to drive usually a big deal in the US? More so in some states than others? How about in cities vs. the country? In many places it’s practically impossible to get anywhere without a car, so that could factor in. But I’m also curious about it as a whole social-status thing.

There are definitely places where you have to drive to get around. But yeah, it’s a social status marker in places where there is decent public transportation. In my area, the Twin Cities, Metro Transit is trying very hard to get more suburbanites to us the bus and light rail to commute. I’m not sure how successful it is outside of getting people to take the light rail to Twins games though. People really look down on public transit and those who take it. They don’t want to be associated with those people.

So yeah, if someone was mocking Anglin for not having a driving license, not cool. That has nothing to do with your worth as a person and it does splash damage to people who don’t drive because they can’t afford a car/gas or who have disabilities preventing it.

I also think the notion that you must have and drive car to adult properly harmful in other ways. More public transportation and more people using that public transportation would be better for the environment and would help the economy because building and maintaining the infrastructure around it would provide jobs and it would allow people without cars to have an easier time finding work. The attitude that if you don’t have a car you’re worthless is one of my least favorite things about this country.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@epitome of incomprehensibility, yes! The US and Canada are super weird about cars. It’s partially pragmatic, and partially very, very stupid.

The pragmatic bit is that Canada and the US are basically cities and towns separated by enormous hinterlands. They’re too spread out for trains to be economically viable (in our current hypercapitalist environment at least), and walking or biking between them is … well, it’s fun, and its exercise, but you don’t do it to go somewhere. Cars/Busses are the only real way to get around.

Even our cities are planned out to favour driving so heavily that they can be hard to get around in if you walk. Major roadways often don’t have sidewalks, and the intersections can be far apart, and the cities themselves have a major sprawl problem. It’s very hard to get a decent job without being able to drive – either commuting or needing to drive on the job. Our cities sort of suck!

And then there’s the stupid, stupid part. Being unable to drive is considered a failure. All adults are expected to be able to drive, at least in my part of the country. If you can’t drive, it’s a sign of immaturity. A lot of that is plain old machismo. Women aren’t stigmatized as heavily for being unable to drive (after all, they’re just poor simple wimmens) but men can be, quite heavily.

Public transit, of any stripe, is associated with poverty, even though our buses are as clean and modern as any, at least here they are. Even carpooling is associated with poverty. It’s – just – stupid.

North America, we’re so darn weird here!

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

In my area, the Twin Cities, Metro Transit is trying very hard to get more suburbanites to us the bus and light rail to commute. I’m not sure how successful it is outside of getting people to take the light rail to Twins games though.

hi5 @WWTH. It’s the same over here. There’s been a push in the local city here for that, and – well, whenever I go to the city I drive to the nearest park & ride and use the bus. I hate city driving, and the bus is about as fast, and cheaper than paying for parking. The park & ride lot is always full, too, so it seems to be working here! I hope it works for you guys too.

Andy Cooper
Andy Cooper
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

Hi there.

Thanks for the welcome. 🙂

Apologies if I overstepped the mark with ‘crazed’, but I’d just like to clarify that.

I’m certainly not looking to disparage people who suffer from any form of mental illness. I have a bipolar sister who suffers terribly, so knocking spots off the mentally ill is kind of a no-no for me.I used it in this context to refer to people who are ‘crazed’ with anger and venom. As many of Anglin’s followers clearly are.

Ta muchly… 🙂

Jules
Jules
3 years ago

Scildfreja is 100% correct. In my neck of the woods you MUST drive or you’re out of luck just getting to a job. Very few sidewalks and everything is sooooo spread out. Also, unlike some major cities on the coasts, things are pretty segregated by zoning, so all the restaurants and shops are in one area, residential in another, etc. It’s not mixed together very well.

I’ve heard of maybe one person who walked to work (they were poor) and they had to go FAR, and I worried about their safety. The only people who can get away with it (without stigma) are the people living and working in the heart of downtown in the two or three little cities we have (I say “little” compared to places like NYC, but where they lack forests of skyscrapers they make up for in land area – the capital here stretches into three counties!!!). But even then, without a car you’re trapped downtown – you wouldn’t even be able get to the other side of the city to visit the zoo. You could never go anywhere else because it’s just too far away and public transit, where it exists, is extremely limited (and associated with “scary homeless people”).

Problem is there are a lot of people who can’t afford a car, yet it’s vital just to live around here. Heaven help you if your car breaks down. For various reasons I didn’t get my license (or a car) until after 20 and yeah it was a source of embarrassment and feelings of inadequacy/not-adult-ness.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

In Paris, public transit is less associated to poverty, and depending on the exact social cast, a car can be a marker of poverty or of status (“I don’t even need a car !”)

Outside of Paris, cities are usually much more pedestrian-friendly, but having a car is definitely a mark of status, and knowing how to ride is considered a necessary skill. Then again, there is a lot of practical reason for that, especially in smaller communities.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

Andrew Anglin, publisher of the neo-Nazi tip sheet DailyStormer.com, doesn’t usually have many nice things to say about Muslims, especially Muslims living in the West. But he’s made an exception of two young Londoners, Mujahid Arshid, and Vincent Tappu.

So basically being a neo-nazi jackoff is only his side gig, violence-spewing misogynist is his primary occupation.

Dan Hoan
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

Oh my company is working on the expansion of the Blue Line light rail in the Twin Cities (though a coworker pointed out that it doesn’t go through some of the more ‘poor’ areas of the Cities). We’re doing some of the environmental stuff and helping with the interpretive panels.

I love public transportation, I like being able to read or do other things while on my commute, but it is definitely looked down upon in the Midwest. When I mentioned to an internship in Chicago that I would plan on taking the train down from where I lived (I was living with my parents for the summer, and it was an part-time, low paid internship – I wasn’t moving to Chicago), the interview awkwardly stopped and they never contacted me again.

When I lived in Omaha, I mentioned I would be taking the bus or walking to the office (the office was downtown and I was about a mile away), everyone was like “YOU CAN’T TAKE THE BUS!” And then I carpooled with the other intern.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Andy Cooper, no problem, my duck! We try to make WHTM a place where people with mental issues can feel safe and welcome, because there are so few places in the open internet like that which aren’t dedicated mental health forums.

We all understand why people use words like “crazy” and “madness” to refer to impulsiveness and bad behaviour. That association itself is the problem! It creates a semantic link between “mental illness” and bad behaviour, violence, and crime, which is used to both shield perpetrators of crime from consequences and to denigrate and justify discrimination against people with a mental health issue.

That’s the link we want to break! Hopefully you can see why we want to, and agree!

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
3 years ago

@weirdwood, Scildfreja and Jules

I’ll take the wide open spaces over the cramped streets here. Lima is one of the worst cities as far as traffic is concerned. I walk to work every single day, which means I spend about 2 hours every day just walking. Still it beats the headache of having to deal with traffic.

This silly notion that you must have a car in order to consider yourself a man or an adult is beyond ridiculous. Not only are cars more costly in the long run than public transportation, they are also inefficient in most cases.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Diego, North America does have a very efficient transport system, I’ll sure give it that. Designed to suit cars and trucks instead of growing overtop of older pre-automobile systems, strictly enforced traffic laws, and a population that has the basics of traffic law and safety drilled into them as part of their childhood education. In India, we could scarcely get over 50 kph because of the lack of those things; here that speed is considered annoyingly slow.

We’re good at cars, we’re just dumb with them. I’d be walking too, in your shoes – I wish could have walked to work when I worked out of the home! It’s very good for you. Well, barring the pollution from the cars beside you, but still!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Ohlmann,

I love how pedestrian friendly Paris is. My mom and I stayed in a hotel a few blocks from the Eiffel Tower and the only time we ever used a cab was to and from the airport. We walked absolutely everywhere. It was great.

Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
3 years ago

If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

Better than yours, ya filthy disgusting bigot!

If you look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore, she will remember that for the rest of her life.

lol, nope.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

Scildfreja:

They’re too spread out for trains to be economically viable

Highways are far more expensive than rail lines. Rail is so much cheaper that a lot of heavy cargo will pay the unsubsidized cost of maintaining rail lines rather than hopping onto the heavily-subsidized road.

Politics is what has us investing billions a year into maintaining highways and airports rather than passenger rail.

Oh, and:

[Walking] is very good for you. Well, barring the pollution from the cars beside you, but still!

Driving you get far more exposed to tailpipe pollution than you do walking. You can find papers on this search: https://www.google.ca/search?rls=en&q=car+passenger+cabin+pollution

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Judging from the post being discussed here, Anglin is perfectly happy to risk jail time.

Jail time for someone else, of course, but that’s a minor detail.

“Some of you will die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”

– Lord Farquahrd, in Shrek

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

If you can’t drive, it’s a sign of immaturity.

Also mental disability, lack of commitment, and insufficient sexual ability.

I know that because I can’t drive.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

If you can’t drive, it’s a sign of immaturity

Yep, and I think this is why he was being mocked for it. You’re expected to get your license as soon as you turn 16.

My city is terrible for public transportation. I live in the ‘burbs, and to get from anywhere to anywhere in the ‘burbs is going to take at least 1.5 hours and at least one transfer, which might involve switching transit companies which means paying twice, each way. To get into the city is half that, so it’s useful for that one purpose. If you don’t have a car in the ‘burbs it’s difficult to get by. Your closest grocery store will be 1-5 miles away with some roads you travel being unlit and without sidewalks. We have one light rail line, through the city proper. They tell us it will be expanded to the ‘burbs in 5 years, but we all saw how poorly managed the tunnel digger was that was to provide a replacement for a viaduct that was irreparably damaged in a 2001 quake (a fairly mild one, compared to what we’re due for). So I’m not holding my breath for that.

It’s over 4 miles from my home to where the transit lines start, so walking to the bus stop is possible but would take a lot out of me. Even back when I walked a *lot* 8 miles per day was hard and I could only handle it on good days. 5 miles was doable, but 8 was pushing it. So I don’t have much choice but to drive, even while most of my commute is by bus.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

re: driving

I’m 17, and planned to get my permit this summer. It doesn’t seem like that’s planning out. (I managed to get a job by using a State ID, which is pretty much a licence/plastic permit that just doesn’t say anything about driving and is portrait instead of landscape.)

As echoed by my compatriots, however, I’m going to need to get it soon if I want to be taken seriously and get around.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

re: the actual article

“how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

While I’m not the best of so much as emitting retorts on the fly, I hope the speaker is ready to catch hands.

Or not.

Seriously, though, they’re just flagging their own insecurity.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
3 years ago

@numerobis: I don’t have any data to back this up, but I don’t think that cargo would subsidise rail transport to the amount that it would need to be to make it feasible for most of Canada. We actually do have trains that run across the country, but they stay very close to the Canada/US border because that’s were the majority of our population is. On the other hand, there still are people who live up north, and need transportation between far flung communities.

In Manitoba they had buses that would give service to them, and they had to be subsidised I think? Here’s an older article about it. I’m not sure what the resolution of this was, so I can’t give you what it is like now because I’m in a major city and didn’t need to pay attention. Like someone who is the worst. :C

I wish we had better rail service. It’s not even a think you’d ever consider doing to get across the prairies, besides as a vacation. It’s also as expensive as flying.

Where I’m currently living, a lot of people can’t drive because there’s little point in owning a car. But when I was out west, you were expected to be taking your full driver’s test the instant you turned 16.

Viscaria the Cheese Hog
Viscaria the Cheese Hog
3 years ago

I’m 28, and though I am technically a licensed driver, I am too scared to drive. Stupid mental illness. Solidarity on the not-feeling-adult-enough comments. I feel a lot of shame, a lot of the time.

I want to get over this barrier as soon as I can. I would really love to make some tiny humans in the next few years, but I can’t do that if I can’t safely get them around in a pedestrian-hostile, cold environment. Also it will be a huge benefit professionally.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

I don’t drive and have no licence, don’t plan on getting one either, even if I wasn’t too poor to be able to afford it.

I live in walking distance to pretty much everything. One of the main bus routes is right beside my building. Groceries, about a 15min walk away, 30min if I want to walk to the store across the harbour.

I don’t think I could handle living in the ‘burbs. I love being able to walk everywhere, well…at least when I feel like I can handle being outside around people.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

“how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

As the proud owner of the penis in question, Anglin, or any other brazen troglodyte who tries to harass me and my girlfriend like this, will find themselves cordially, and with giggling mirth, invited to eat a dick. Least then his disgusting mouth will be doing summat useful. Not my dick, mind, I don’t fuck fascists. Nor anyone else’s really, wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. Hey, I wonder how flexible Andy is…

@kupo
Preach! Can’t imagine anywhere else having a transit system as bad as MARTA, but I’ll take your word that yall’s is terrible. I’m sorta lucky in that there’s a bus stop a measure of feet from my front door. Also very unlucky in that one of the major roads that’s near me, the one on which I work and which connects the downtowns of 2 cities, inexplicably doesn’t have a bus that goes end to end

But MARTA’s notoriously awful, so that doesn’t even surprise me. And I live about as far out as buses even go. Leave Fulton or DeKalb counties, and you’re fucked without a car. The reasons for which were primarily racist in origin and articulated here better than I could:
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/marta-tsplost-transportation/

@Troubelle

While I’m not the best of so much as emitting retorts on the fly, I hope the speaker is ready to catch hands

comment image

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

@Axe

I’m unsure what is meant to be communicated here, and if it’s positive or negative. I’ve heard the term, just dunno the full context here.

Pie
Pie
3 years ago

@Scildfreya

The pragmatic bit is that Canada and the US are basically cities and towns separated by enormous hinterlands. They’re too spread out for trains to be economically viable (in our current hypercapitalist environment at least),

Is this really a hypercapitalism issue? I was under the impression that a substantial chunk of the problem was a cultural one; trains are what poor people and communists use, so they should be choked of any sort of funding and treated with contempt.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
3 years ago

@Dormousing_it

Try reading what I wrote again, they were considered ‘uneducated and indolent’ by British people in India in the late eighteenth century. It’s a direct quote from a letter of the time. Pretty certain your grandmother wasn’t alive over 220 years ago. Her hard work and education are not related to the behaviour of people dead a century before she was born; apparently the Indonesian-Dutch women of the 1600 – 1800’s weren’t given much education at all, relied on slaves for everything, and their manners were considered decidedly un-European.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Troubelle
In the world of rap/organized crime, it means you’re with us (ride, referencing DMX’s Ruff Ryders) or you’re against us (die, referencing, well… ya know)

In the world of romantic relationships, it means you’re all in. Up to, but perish the thought, swinging hands at racist muffugas in a Walmart. A ride or die partner (it’s usually talking about the ‘chick’ in a hetero couple but can be, and often is, used for and by any partner) supports their SO, will fight for their SO, and, most importantly, demands the same in return. It’s absolutely seen as positive

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
3 years ago

Drat missed the Edit. Dormousing-it I meant your mother-in-law. Either way, point still stands.

@WWTH
Yes, you North Americans are strange. It amazes me that so many seem to think the entire world is like the segregated US.

According to my family stories, a ‘girl in every port’ was fairly common, as was adultery by those women, because why the hell not? My(dad’s mother’s father) great grandad was not my great grandad, that was his brother; and my (dad’s dad) grandad had some painful treatments after his three trips round the world. Sending 15 + year old boys and men to sea for long periods of time surprisingly led to a lot of sex once they reached a port. Given the questionable availability of effective contraceptives up until the 1960s, I’d have thought it was obvious that ‘mixed-race’ children would be the result.

R.e. Driving

I’m 34, I have a provisional license so that I can have driving lessons and I can, with a CBT certificate, ride a motorcycle below 125 cc. I used to actually, but then my MIs got worse and my autistic traits got less controlled so I had to give up. Still got my scooter, but I need to sell it to buy food or pay the rent. We have reasonable public transport here so I can manage quite well, but sometimes it would be nice not to share space with a load of strangers. But I do get to read while I’m travelling.

heartlanddoc
heartlanddoc
3 years ago

It’s not surprising that these cowards are only recommending that their acolytes attack women for “race-mixing”. The thought of approaching a man who is in an interracial relationship must make them wet their pants. I’m a man in an interracial marriage. If Andrew Anglin is so tough, why doesn’t he come up to me, face-to-face-man-to-man, and start some shit? We all know the answer to that.

Lisa
Lisa
3 years ago

“If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

Such tough words. I’m not usually a violent person, but if anyone said something this vile to me (whatever the equivalent is for white/East Indian couples), he’d better run. I am not “his” woman, and I won’t ever get “back in line” for racist pigs, because I don’t bow to wanna-be terrorists.

I’m half a foot taller than Anglin and at my physically strongest, I could carry him on my back (I have terrible arm strength, but I could lift weights as heavy as him on the back press), so I bet that if I ever had the misfortune of meeting him in person, he’d be too much of a coward to say anything.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

@Axe

Okay, that’s confirmed!

…I should note that I’ve established with my girl (who is white) that local relationships are OK on both sides as long as everyone’s informed. So, we’re poly, but…neither of us have really had a chance to actually do the thing. That said, that still leaves a chance for this to come into play depending on who, if anyone, I get into a local relationship with between now and the ride down. (Which is gonna be, uh…literal years. o-o)

Of course, there’s also the case of someone being casually racist or racist to someone else, which could happen anywhere the mere thought of people who aren’t white exists. Depending on the situation, it could vary from “catch hands” to “catch entire body of heavyset person”.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Similar to the driver licence obsession you talk of here, my father was obsessed with me learning to use a bike. I never really cared for it, and my poor sense of balance combined to not being interested meant I never actually succeeded in that.

Their official reason was that I was supposed to regulary bike to see friends and all, a case that never actually happened. I think nowaday that it was just because they were seeing it as a sign of “maturity” or “independance” or whatever.

The actual driver licence have gone swimmingly because, unlike a bike, a car was something I could see a use for, since the place where I studied was like 40km from my home. Still, my father insisted in my doing like 300km in a row without pause, which was completely and utterly stupid given how tiring it can be.

I did choose Paris as a city to land in because of the public transportation. In the end, the main thing my father teached me is to not trust common sense and older people wisdom. The world change too quickly to accept advices without a critical look at it.

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

One delightful thing about our older son – if my husband and I could have had a biological child, he would have looked a lot like him. Younger son looks more like my husband’s side.

Anglin is an excellent example of how the most vehement defenders of the ‘white race’ are the worst representatives of it.
“You! Where the fuck is your chin?”

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

I once had a driver’s license, now I do not. I hate driving, and am fortunate enough to live somewhere with a fairly functional transit system.

@Scildfreja

@Diego, North America does have a very efficient transport system, I’ll sure give it that.

Oh dear, is it time for the efficiency discussion again? To do something efficiently means to do it with the least expenditure of resources for the desired goal. North American (especially U.S.) transportation systems are ludicrously inefficient; it takes a fantastic amount of energy per passenger or cargo unit mile, not to mention the costs of building and maintaining the infrastructure (and indeed automobiles themselves are effectively part of our transportation infrastructure, which is left to such private resources as may be allocated there. This is a terrible way to run infrastructure, and it shows on American roads), and the knock-on costs from pollution thus generated.

The pragmatic bit is that Canada and the US are basically cities and towns separated by enormous hinterlands. They’re too spread out for trains to be economically viable (in our current hypercapitalist environment at least), and

Trains are never ‘economically viable’ on a capitalist basis. On any sensible economic measure the long distances between US or Canadian cities makes trains a better idea, not a worse one. As far as transit inside conurbations goes, you’re entirely right about the effects of suburbs on non-automotive options. This is because suburbs have no economic use or value whatsoever, and ought to be abolished as the cancers on the land that they are. The entire point and purpose of suburbs was to enable racial (and to an extent class) segregation, and all economic analyses were subordinate to that one overriding goal. This is, incidentally, also the motivation behind the crap mass transit the U.S has in general.
@Rhuu

In Manitoba they had buses that would give service to them, and they had to be subsidised I think

Of course they bloody do. Roads do too, as do railroads, airports, ports, sidewalks, and indeed every kind of transit infrastucture beyond goat paths. That’s the whole bloody point of infrastructure: the profit accrues to society generally, not to any specific body, and as such private entities can’t make a profit on it. Thus, the government, as a fiscal representative of society, pays the freight. That’s kind of the whole idea behind government and taxes in the first place.

@Pie

Is this really a hypercapitalism issue? I was under the impression that a substantial chunk of the problem was a cultural one; trains are what poor people and communists use,

Also racism. Whenever the U.S. makes a collossally dreadful policy decision, it’s pretty much always because of racism.

@Axe

In the world of rap/organized crime, it means you’re with us (ride, referencing DMX’s Ruff Ryders) or you’re against us (die, referencing, well… ya know)

Is that the original usage, do you know? Because I’ve recently encountered the other usage, and was wondering where the phrase came from.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

And owning a car, keeping it (legally) roadworthy, whatever vehicle taxes may exist where you are, plus insurance … is hella expensive. Plus parking charges. Ugh.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

No argument to any of that @Dalillama. The “Efficiency” i was talking about was comparing road-networks-for-private-automobiles, and not best-way-to-move-people-and-things. The roads in North America can handle huge volumes of traffic with relatively few accidents compared to other places. That’s all I was referring to!

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Troubelle

I should note that I’ve established with my girl (who is white) that local relationships are OK on both sides as long as everyone’s informed. So, we’re poly, but…neither of us have really had a chance to actually do the thing

Exact same. Well, she’s poly (and married, duh. But that’s from before, so I don’t really count that), but I’m totally allowed on the off chance

between now and the ride down. (Which is gonna be, uh…literal years. o-o)

We’re only dealing with a matter of months *knocks on wood* and it’s rough. Y’all have my sympathies, you poor, poor dears 🙁

Depending on the situation, it could vary from “catch hands” to “catch entire body of heavyset person”

Hey, you gotta spear somebody, you gotta spear somebody. All there is to it 😛

@Dali

Is that the original usage, do you know? Because I’ve recently encountered the other usage, and was wondering where the phrase came from

Not sure. I know the term from DMX. Or rather, I know it from Sean ‘P/Puff/Puffy Daddy/Diddy’ Combs’ Vote or Die initiative in 2000, which introduced me to the DMX song. I can’t think of or find an older usage from quickly googling, so probably. Best song to play on the relationship version of ride or die tho:

😀

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Scildfreya

The “Efficiency” i was talking about was comparing road-networks-for-private-automobiles, and not best-way-to-move-people-and-things. The roads in North America can handle huge volumes of traffic with relatively few accidents compared to other places. That’s all I was referring to!

The word you’re looking for is ‘effective’. The U.S. transportation system is remarkably effective for being such a total clusterfuck in its basic premises.

@opposablethumbs

And owning a car, keeping it (legally) roadworthy, whatever vehicle taxes may exist where you are, plus insurance … is hella expensive. Plus parking charges. Ugh.

Yuppers. And that means that if you can’t get a good job or a loan (because of, say, racism), you can’t have a functional way to get anywhere, which inhibits all kinds of social participation, especially when things are deliberately set far apart.

@Axe

Exact same. Well, she’s poly (and married, duh. But that’s from before, so I don’t really count that), but I’m totally allowed on the off chance

🙂

Y’all have my sympathies, you poor, poor dears 🙁

Seconded. Geography sucks.

Not sure. I know the term from DMX. Or rather, I know it from Sean ‘P/Puff/Puffy Daddy/Diddy’ Combs’ Vote or Die initiative in 2000, which introduced me to the DMX song. I can’t think of or find an older usage from quickly googling, so probably. Best song to play on the relationship version of ride or die tho:

Thanks

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

And that means that if you can’t get a good job or a loan (because of, say, racism), you can’t have a functional way to get anywhere, which inhibits all kinds of social participation, especially when things are deliberately set far apart.

And, of course, since 2008’s financial crisis, to a fair approximation nobody has a good job anymore. You hear the talking heads talking about a “recovery” and “low unemployment” and “high stock market” and “high GDP” as if everything’s back to the status quo ante, but the jobs lost in 2008 were mostly full-time jobs with benefits, and the jobs created since have been mostly part-time minimum wage jobs without benefits. A large fraction of people took a massive pay cut and lost benefits and never got either back. The cake is a lie.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

(1) One of the reasons that a driver’s license has been almost mandatory for teenage guys (other than the direct badge of adulthood reason), is that it has traditionally been difficult to have a girlfriend unless you could drive and had access to a car. In my generation, a LOT of people lost their virginity in a car, and a lot of us were conceived in cars. My younger son, on the other hand, only got his license at 23 when he got a job that required him to commute to a place where there was no public transportation. (He has a very high degree of immunity to peer pressure.)

(2) We go to the Orlando area every winter for a couple of weeks. Orlando has a very good, inexpensive bus system, and I discovered that you can take a one-hour $2 bus ride to downtown to get a rental car and pay about 50% what rentals cost at the airport. I have done this several times and (except for my wife) always been the only white person on the bus.

(3) I think we need an approved word for what most people really mean by “crazy” — i.e., not mentally ill, but seriously challenged in cognitive skills like critical thinking. I think “deranged” has been deemed sort of acceptable in the past, but it really isn’t a “clean” word (still has mental illness connotations).

(4) In any discussion of racial issues in the US, I think people tend to attribute racist opinions far too much to personal failures of individuals and not nearly enough to the well-organized propaganda campaign that has been carried on by the US Right Wing for over 40 years. An article in today’s Washington Post seems to me to be an excellent summary of this campaign and its effects. The Left has thought that labeling such views as “racist” should be enough, but in fact we have done a very poor job of trying to counteract the racist propaganda — we have not come close to winning the battle for people’s minds. Remember that the targets of the propaganda live in mostly non-diverse regions, so they don’t meet a lot of real non-white people who might change their views. The Right Wing has no compunctions about telling lies with a straight face if it benefits them politically and economically, but most lefties are not comfortable telling barefaced lies, so we have to take a different tack. So far we haven’t.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/02/the-trump-administration-takes-up-the-cause-of-oppressed-white-people/?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.0450a8424f9c

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

There’s a great story about how when William Faulkner was working in LA as a screenwriter, he used to go out for late night walks as he was used to doing at home in Mississippi. The police picked him up on suspicion that he was casing homes for burglars, and he barely talked himself out of it.

When I was in grad school I lived 3/4 of a mile on a fairly major highway from a convenience store. I got questioned by the police twice in a year for walking there and back.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@GOM

I think we need an approved word for what most people really mean by “crazy” — i.e., not mentally ill, but seriously challenged in cognitive skills like critical thinking. I think “deranged” has been deemed sort of acceptable in the past, but it really isn’t a “clean” word (still has mental illness connotations).

I don’t think it’s good to use a person’s cognitive skills as an insult, either. Let’s say I’m poor at spatial cognition. Is that a quality I should be mocked for?

Usually when I see the word “crazy” thrown around it means, “that person has ideas I disagree with on a fundamental level” and it’s used to dismiss the person entirely and pretend like no one would ever take what the person says seriously. It’s used as a way of steering the conversation away from a behavior, pattern, group, etc. that the person using the term is uncomfortable with and to avoid having to address a problem that person sees as a non-problem.

We see it all the time in here when sealions come in to inform us that Elam/Roosh/Anglin/Rodgers/etc. are just crazy and why even bother discussing it when there’s no way to reason with people like them.

We don’t need another word for crazy; we need to examine why we’re trying to use that word each and every time we start to do so and to address the actual problem we’re seeing rather than brushing it off as “crazy.”

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

One of the reasons that a driver’s license has been almost mandatory for teenage guys (other than the direct badge of adulthood reason), is that it has traditionally been difficult to have a girlfriend unless you could drive and had access to a car. In my generation, a LOT of people lost their virginity in a car, and a lot of us were conceived in cars.

TMI alert:

I’ve actually never even had sex in a car. Maybe because I didn’t have sex at all until college. I always wonder how much the teenagers having sex in cars thing was a pop culture myth and how much of it was reality.

I think once middle and upper class moms started working outside the home more, it was easier for teenagers to find a chaperone free house to do it in instead.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Dali

Thanks

Any reason you ask, or just curious?

@Grumpy

I think people tend to attribute racist opinions far too much to personal failures of individuals and not nearly enough to the well-organized propaganda campaign that has been carried on by the US Right Wing for over 40 years

No. If you’re convinced by propaganda to hate people cos they’re a different color than you, you’re a racist. You’re a scared, insecure shit regardless, and the propaganda just gave you an outlet. And this 40 years nonsense? As if people weren’t racist in 1967 or 57 or 47. Bullshit. Talk radio and 24hr news directed existing racism, it didn’t create any fuckin thing. But you’re right, it’s not individual failures. It’s the collective failure of white people to see anyone else as fully human for 400 years that’s the problem here /rant

Otrame
Otrame
3 years ago

@ epitome of incomprehensibility

It’s important to remember that in the US almost all cities, except those on the east coast and a scattered few elsewhere, were still quite small until after cars became available. The result is that many cities here are spread out, going horizontal instead of vertical. People here in San Antonio (which is one of the older cities in the US, 1718, but which remained quite small until after WWII, though it is now the 9th largest city in population in the country) can manage on buses, but it is an enormous hassle, involving hours of time each day. Having a car, even for quite poor people, is probably the best bet unless you live and work on the same bus route and there is a grocery store and other needed retailers nearby.

We had a friend from the UK visit a few years ago. We were going to the movies in the cool new theater. We all got in the car and drove a while, perhaps 20 minutes, and he asked, “Where are we now?” We explained that we were still in San Antonio. The place we were going was in San Antonio, but would take another half an hour to get to, due to weekend traffic. And we would not have crossed even half the city in that time. The friend was astonished. If my son and his then-wife hadn’t recently come from living at Ft. Monroe on the Chesapeake Bay, they would have thought he was nuts, but in that part of Maryland and Virginia a mix of middle-sized cities and smaller towns, have grown into border-to-border with no space between them, so they had an idea why he was confused.

Of course, in the small towns and in the country, it is almost necessary to have a car. Things are spread out, and no one has any sort of public transportation.

And yes, there is a certain amount of “adult” definition in having a car, but it is still combined with pragmatism.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

…I’m getting increasingly concerned about my chances in the overworld.