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The Daily Stormer praises alleged “honor killer” of London teen for “defending his race”

“Honor killing” victim Celine Dookhran (Modified photo from Twitter)

By David Futrelle

Andrew Anglin, publisher of the neo-Nazi tip sheet DailyStormer.com, doesn’t usually have many nice things to say about Muslims, especially Muslims living in the West. But he’s made an exception of two young Londoners, Mujahid Arshid, and Vincent Tappu.

What makes these two fellows “honorable,” in Anglin’s eyes? Arshid has been charged with the brutal rape and murder of 19-year-old Celine Dookhran and the kidnapping, rape and attempted murder of another young woman who survived her assault; Tappu has been charged in the kidnapping of both women. According to prosecutors, the two were enraged that Dookhram, of Indian descent, was planning to marry an Arab man.

And so, while acknowledging that the violence inflicted upon these two women was “gruesome,” Anglin actually praises the alleged killer and his accomplice for their “hardcore defense of [their] race.”

In a recent post on The Daily Stormer (archived here), Anglin declares

the men who did it were defending their race, and as extreme and gross as the act was, you have to have a little bit of respect for them.

Reveling in the bloody details of the crime, Anglin writes admiringly that

These guys kidnapped women of their own race and raped them, and after one escaped with her throat half-slit, they chopped the other up and stuffed her in a freezer.

Because the women were race-mixing.

Anglin goes on to urge white men in the west to emulate the two — at least up to a point.

So I’m just going to throw this out there: imagine if white men cared this much about their own women race-mixing. …

I’m certainly not implying White men should be kidnapping White female race-mixers, raping them and chopping them up and shoving them in freezers for fucking n***ers. Although honestly, I wouldn’t feel bad if that happened, it is more than our women would require to get back in line.

Instead of murdering “race-mixing” white women, Anglin suggests that white men simply harass them viciously in public.

If we had a movement to shame these whores, that would go a long, long way. If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

You can’t get in trouble for that. Her buck is not going to attack you in a Walmart, and if he does he’ll be arrested and it will get in the media. Which is good. They won’t print your name, because you are the victim, but they will say that you made a “racially insensitive comment about the woman’s mixed race relationship.”

You can also yell from your car. If you see women with someone of another race, slow down, roll down your window and yell: “n***er-fucking whore! What does your father think????”

Just start doing this.

Now. …

If you look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore, she will remember that for the rest of her life.

Do it.

Once again, it seems the main difference between American neo-Nazis and the Islamist fanatics they so often denounce are the colors of their respective skins.

H/T — FSTDT.com

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Alex
Alex
3 years ago

Last paragraph is bang on – two sides of the same shitty extremist coin

CriticalDragon1177
3 years ago

David Futrelle,

Once again, it seems the main difference between American neo-Nazis and the Islamist fanatics they so often denounce are the colors of their respective skins.

Also the degree to which they are willing to risk jail time “defending” their backwards ideology. Thankfully no matter how much Anglin tries to harass white women into staying with their “race” it won’t work.

Too bad Celine Dookhran’s attackers did more than just assault her with their words. Hopefully they’ll be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

MexicanHotChocolate
MexicanHotChocolate
3 years ago

Yes, childish name calling That’ll show ’em. What makes Anglin think the black boyfriend in this scenario won’t punch him in Walmart? I’ve seen fights breakout in Walmart over for less significant things than calling someone’s girlfriend a whore. I dare Anglin to try that shit anywhere near Oakland and see what happens.

CriticalDragon1177
3 years ago

Alex

Last paragraph is bang on – two sides of the same shitty extremist coin

Both ideologies need to be rejected, for the backwards, hate filled anti enlightenment things that they are.

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

My Sister is engaged to some some who could be considered not of her ‘race’. The idea that she might harassed or even assaulted for that sickens me.

CriticalDragon1177
3 years ago

@MexicanHotChocolate

Yes, childish name calling That’ll show ’em. What makes Anglin think the black boyfriend in this scenario won’t punch him in Walmart? I’ve seen fights breakout in Walmart over for less significant things than calling someone’s girlfriend a whore. I dare Anglin to try that shit anywhere near Oakland and see what happens.

We know that Anglin would love to do more, but thankfully he’s too scared of the law to actually try to enforce his anti “race mixing” rule. He and most of his other Nazi buddies probably won’t even try shouting insults at women, since they know that the store managers would kick them out for doing so. Our anti discrimination laws do not include being a bigot as something that isn’t okay to use as grounds not to serve someone.

CriticalDragon1177
3 years ago

@Fabe

My Sister is engaged to some some who could be considered not of her ‘race’. The idea that she might harassed or even assaulted for that sickens me.

That sickens just about anyone who isn’t a disgusting racist loser like Anglin.

Otrame
Otrame
3 years ago

*sigh* Does this ridiculous larva actually think he invented that sort of thing?

When I was a freshman they finally desegregated the school I was going to–8 years after Brown vs. Board of Education–after the Air Force told them they had to take all our dependent children or they would get none of them. Since the military pays for each kid in public schools and schools get kind of addicted to that, they gave in. One of the first few black kids was in my homeroom and we became friends.

So I’ve been hearing that shit since I was 14. That was more than 50 years ago, folks. The last time I got it right in the face was when a man looked up at me as I carried my beautiful 6 month old grandson out of a MacDonalds. He said, “Fucking nigger lover. Race traitor.”

I’ve had practice so I smiled sweetly at him and said, “What a nice thing to say. Thank you.” and left without looking back.

I do believe I heard a few giggles behind me.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
3 years ago

Uhm, why does Anglin think an assault* victim’s name wouldn’t be published by the papers? At the very least both attacker and atackee are going to be named in the police blotter, and those are pretty wide-read. Folks the hypothetical name-caller knows are going to find out what he did, and react accordingly to him. Whether he likes it or not.

*Rape/sexual assault being the obvious exception(s) here.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Although honestly, I wouldn’t feel bad if that happened, it is more than our women would require to get back in line.

So his reason for not endorsing such behavior is not because it’s wrong but because it’s more work than required.

Just kidding! He’s endorsing it, but just in the *wink-wink* *nod-nod* kind of way that isn’t legally incitement.

@CriticalDragon1177

Also the degree to which they are willing to risk jail time “defending” their backwards ideology.

That’s quite the broad brush you’re using. Might I suggest a finer detail brush? Don’t forget that alt-right dudes sometimes also rape and murder women for sleeping with men of other races.

Bina
3 years ago

it is more than our women would require to get back in line.

“Your” women, Anglin? No. You don’t own them. Nobody owns a woman, asshole.

And no, this sort of shit would NOT make me “get back in line”, if I became involved with someone non-white. It would make me do exactly what I’d do anyway: get up a gang of like-minded “race-mixers” to fight back against fascism in any way necessary until you Nazis all get back in line and crawl back under your rocks.

Preferably permanently, this time.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

If we had a movement to shame these whores, that would go a long, long way. If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

It takes such bravery to say such hateful words, and then never do that in real life.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

Don’t know whether to rage or laugh. Both? Yeah, both
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/112010/1290165886_rsd4rn.gif

Unless you and your partner are both cis, hetero, white, and Christian, there will be people, somehow and angrily, more invested in your own relationship than you

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

The yelling at women from cars thing is just silly. At my last job, I would sometimes walk and talk to the bus stop with my coworker who is a black man. I wasn’t fucking him. So if some angry white dude had yelled “n****r fucking whore” at me for walking with him, I probably would have just shrugged and laughed. Actually I probably would do that if he had been my partner too, but the point is, just because someone is walking down the street with someone, doesn’t mean that they are fucking them. It’s a weird assumption to make that two people of opposite genders can’t walk together unless they’re romantically and/or sexually involved.

Bina
3 years ago

Also, for those who needed a reminder, here’s the big tough guy who thinks anyone will believe him when he claims that women need to be harassed to “keep them in line”:

comment image

Pretty sure that an average-sized woman could easily take him on…if she’s not too busy laughing.

brian
brian
3 years ago

yeah this sounds *real* fucking effective! [sarcastic eyeroll]
what does he imagine the woman’s response to this would be? “oh my gosh, you’re SO right, sir! I’m leaving my non-white partner this second! will YOU be my abusive husband-slash-master now?”?

CriticalDragon1177
3 years ago

@kupo

@CriticalDragon1177

Also the degree to which they are willing to risk jail time “defending” their backwards ideology.

That’s quite the broad brush you’re using. Might I suggest a finer detail brush? Don’t forget that alt-right dudes sometimes also rape and murder women for sleeping with men of other races.

Great point, I should have specified that I was talking about this specific instance. Racists do indeed murder so called “race traitors” as well.

IgnoreSandra
3 years ago

@WWTH

It’s a silly assumption, but people make it.

I remember one time I was walking near a woman I didn’t know, and some guy assumed we were a couple and tried to sell “us” things. He at least had the decency to be embarrassed when he was corrected. People need to stop assuming such things. It’s none of their fucking business either way.

I am trying not to deal with the article right now. It reminds me of the way men murder women like me for no reason at all. The way it’s even legal. It’s the same kind of honor killing – this is a person who’s deviant, they deserve to be destroyed. Ugh.

Wanda
Wanda
3 years ago

White dudes don’t do this sort of thing unless there are a few of them together, picking on one person (because they’re cowards). This is why I’m more scared of men in groups than a single man who has decided to talk to me on the street (whyyyyyyyyy do they do this). The single dude is not threatening, usually, and I can brush him off. But I’m scared of men when they gather in numbers, and they know it.

So no, Anglin wouldn’t try this shit in Wal-Mart when it’s just him and a black guy, because like most racists, he’s afraid of black men, and that’s why he feels so threatened by them. Also, he’d probably get thrown out of Wal-Mart for yelling slurs and then scurry on home to write 20 posts on his blog moaning about his rights or whatever.

I think it’s more likely if he and a bunch of his buds were in a truck harassing black people at a child’s birthday party. I wonder how that turned out for the white folk.

tim gueguen
3 years ago

Anglin probably loves this story just as much for the fact that someone non-white was murdered as anything else.

LaterSpaceCowboy
LaterSpaceCowboy
3 years ago

What a bilious and craven man Andrew Anglin is. He’s literally encouraging his klan (oh, I know I spelled it with a k) of basement-dwelling followers to act like the cowardly little shit stains they are: hooting jeers and racial epithets from speeding trucks (that no doubt have Confederate flag vanity plates). What a class act.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

As always, when I read something by this reprehensible little shit: ಠ_ಠ

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

I’m a “race-mixer” – past relationships with ATSI people, and my current partner is a Sikh from Punjab. My son is therefore “mixed race”. And absolutely gorgeous (no bias here, nope)
My question: why does Anglin think this is a novel suggestion for white people?
A good bit of the violence and abuse in my life has come from exactly this type of stupid attitude – “races” shouldn’t mix and white women belong to white men.
It’s old, it’s unoriginal, it’s tired and we’re all fucking over it.
White genocide FTW 😀😊

JS
JS
3 years ago

In fanbaby news: DC responds to Marvel unofficial milkshake pic with a picture of many of the women who work at DC. Marvel responds with picture of milkshake with 2 straws. *tiny fanbaby minds blown*

YES!

Still Fiqah
Still Fiqah
3 years ago

@Otrame: Thank you for sharing this. I think young folks who weren’t around for the mess of the Civil Rights Era need to understand that none of this stuff is even a little new. My mom and dad grew up ass-deep in Jim Crow, with my dad being part of a wave of school integration that was so traumatic it took him 30 years to even tell his children about it. This ugly is older than America.

Also seconding @Bina and others re: “our” women. I’ve said for years that, at least in hetero situations, patriarchy and misogyny drive the racism and vitriol. More than anything else, it’s the idea that women of a group collectively belong to ALLLLLL the men in said group. In every way. And it’s everywhere, even in places you wouldn’t think. (I KNOW this b/c I’ve been harassed by Black men in public while just talking with non-Black male friends and co-workers; it’s nowhere near the horror of this tragic and heartbreaking story. I’d posit that it’s all varying degrees of the same toxic, violent bullshit.) My heart goes out to these poor young women. The lives we could save by just divesting from the notion that women and children are property.

ALSO: What @Axecalibur said. Alluhvit.

I’m resisting the urge to snark about angry, angry, angry, tiny, tiny, tiny, TINY little cowardly men who can’t drive without a licensed grown-up in the car or after daylight hours. Because that is petty. And below us all. High road.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
3 years ago

@Bina

First thought: Ohio actually issues plastic cards to learners? Back when I had my learner’s permit in California, we just had a printed half-sheet of paper stapled to a few other half-sheets listing all the restrictions on them, including NOT VALID FOR IDENTIFICATION in all caps.

Second thought: Depending on when he first entered the BMV system, those height and weight figures could be up to a decade out of date. If Ohio works the same way as California, they might not necessarily update height and weight when documents are issued or renewed (CA didn’t when I got my license renewed, and I’d gotten substantially heavier since it was first issued).

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
3 years ago

@KindaSortaHarmless,

I think all states nowadays have gone to the plastic Learners Permit cards. Easier to take care of than paper, and they can be used as a legal ID for getting Baby’s First Job(s).

About whether this particular Ohio ID haas current info, I have no clue.

Nentuaby
Nentuaby
3 years ago

@KindaSortaHarmless

Funny story about plastic permits…

My wife got her permit in Georgia. When she moved out to CA, she took it with her to the DMV to get it transferred to this state.

So the DMV clerk read the info off her card and started to get her set up with a CA… License. She dutifully pointed out that the original document was in fact a permit, but because it was plastic, the clerk REFUSED to believe this.

It quickly escalated to a supervisor, and then a supervisor’s supervisor. Every one of them condescendingly explained to her that no, it was a license see, because it’s on plastic. If it was a permit it would be on paper, because obviously no other DMV could have different rules!

Eventually, she gave up and let them bully her into leaving with a full-fledged license she never tested or finished the experience requirements for.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Beccaf03
Beccaf03
3 years ago

Ok, I’ve been lurking since the whole Elliot Rodgers thing. (I was really perplexed as to how this mindset is formed. [no good answer as of yet]). I honestly can’t fathom how a person gets to the point of encouraging hate and violence as an answer to anything.

I really want to believe that these opinions are a result of internet anonymity and would never be voiced or acted upon IRL, barring severe mental instability. Is there any hope that I am right? Is it really that naive to believe that IRL people tend to act in ways that protect human rights?

After all, I’ve never met anyone who openly admitted to any of the disgusting beliefs I’ve read about online.

Jimbtho
Jimbtho
3 years ago

What if her answer to ‘how does it taste?’ was ‘pretty good, actually, probably better than yours?’

Tosca; Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca; Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
3 years ago

This POS is overlooking one very obvious point. It wasn’t white women who were the first “race traitors”, taking their all-important White DNA outside the glorious (and fragile) White Master Race.

That would be white men, raping the local women in the lands they colonised.

For some reason this one really pushed my buttons. Fuck this creep.

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
3 years ago

@Jimbtho

I was thinking something similar, but with an “why, do you want to taste it?”

MissEB47 (Resident Rainbow Lorikeet and Beak Typist)
MissEB47 (Resident Rainbow Lorikeet and Beak Typist)
3 years ago

Andrew Anglin is such an arsehole. Why is it that women are always blamed for a man’s actions, even when she is was murdered horribly by a man?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@Beccaf03 : I love your optimism, but it’s misplaced. People say and do that all the time.

The proportion of people who think that but isn’t ready to act is mercifully pretty high. But it can change, for example if it’s better socially accepted. That’s why thoses bozos are so dangerous..

Venice
Venice
3 years ago

“how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

are… are you coming onto my bf? you cant have it

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

Okay, this is fucking it. I literally don’t know what to say, mostly because I no longer have anything to say about Anglin that doesn’t breach the comments policy one way or another.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
3 years ago

Only tangentially related because my brain isn’t coping with the vileness of the rapists/murders, and Andrew Anglin;

The following doesn’t change the fact that imperialism is a horrible institution and there were a lot of abuses under the various European empires. Some relationships were not consensual but that wasn’t always the case.

I’m reading a book at the moment called ‘Ribbons among the Rajahs’ about European women in India before the Raj, so from 1700 to the First War of Independence. There weren’t many British women in India although numbers increased over the 150 years. As a result there were a lot of marriages between Indian women and British men, that were long-lasting and loving. Grave stones and letters attest to the length and strength of the marriages. There were several cases of what could be described as initially ‘diplomatic marriages’ between HEIC officers and the daughters of high ranking Indians, that turned into life-long and highly loving marriages, resulting in a generation of Anglo-Indian ‘mixed race’ children.

People were a bit embarrassed during the Raj that they might have had a ‘mixed-race’ ancestor, but by then the interaction between Indians and British was a lot more restricted. In the early years, a lot of Britons sent to India ‘went native’, converting to Hinduism or Islam, learning the local languages, and studying the local cultures to the extent that they were considered experts in Europe, coming home with a ship full of zoological samples, furniture and an Indian wife, who had to acclimatise to British culture and climate.

Long before, when the Dutch and Portuguese were building their empires in India and Indonesia, it was perfectly normal for there to be intermarriage, although later British commentators complained that the Dutch-Indian women were indolent and uneducated. Going even further back, there were marriages all around the Mediterranean during the Ancient Greek and Roman Empires.

‘Race-mixing’ has always happened, it’s normal. People love and lust after who they love and lust after. Andrew Anglin and the fascists he’s encouraging are ignorant of history, human nature and biology.

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

It’s just astonishing that he thinks he came up with this idea.

My extended family is racially diverse in ways that show as well as in ways that don’t. We’ve most of us had some kind of abuse in public at some time or another when we’ve been walking with relatives we don’t seem to “match” – in the eyes of repugnant fools. I was out with the grandsprogs, whose heritage includes Kenyan as well as English, Scots, Irish, German, Spanish and Jewish, and got yelled at not long ago.

The daftest example came from my husband’s auntie by (first) marriage. She and her sister used to walk around arm in arm in London in the 70s and 80s. One of them is very dark and the other very light and they used to get a lot of homophobic and racist abuse from horrible, horrible people.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Bina

I was going to bring up that same point about Anglin. I remembered that photo with him and his DL. I’ve got a half-inch on him😀.

The rules against abelist language don’t permit me to make the statements I want to make about his physical size, and his probable attitude towards it.

Andy Cooper
Andy Cooper
3 years ago

Sooner or later, Anglin will get his. Guaranteed. A misanthropic, attention-addicted internet tough guy who has carried that to it’s logical end point.

I look forward to whatever unpleasantness awaits him.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Andy : I very much fear that he will kill or maim one or more people the day he snap.

Jeroen
Jeroen
3 years ago

What a moron.

If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

Response: “Looks like you’re eager to find out, but this one is taken.”

Might be a bit dangerous to call out a Nazi like that, though.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Nanny Oggs Bosom

My mother-in-law is one of those Dutch-Indonesian women. Indolent and uneducated? Nothing could be further than the truth. She’s in her 90s now, and an invalid, but she was a teacher, married a Dutchman 7 years her junior, and went on to have 7 children. She’s half Dutch and half Indonesian.

BTW, Celine Dookhran, the poor victimized woman in the photo, is beautiful.

Andy Cooper
Andy Cooper
3 years ago

@Ohlmann: I think the damage he will do is mostly going to be internet-based. Some of his crazed followers will probably read his insanity and act out in real life.

But Anglin himself? I just don’t see it. He prefers not getting his hands dirty.

He’s storing up a while heap of trouble for himself, and if the law doesn’t bring him down, something else is going to come long and completely destroy his life.

I see Alex Jones ending up the same way, personally.

kiki
kiki
3 years ago

Also the degree to which they are willing to risk jail time “defending” their backwards ideology.

Judging from the post being discussed here, Anglin is perfectly happy to risk jail time.

Jail time for someone else, of course, but that’s a minor detail.

Blue Jean
Blue Jean
3 years ago

Her buck? Is she leading a male reindeer on a leash around Walmart or something’s? I think there are laws against that.

Seriously, Anglin, if you’re that concerned about sexual relationships of total strangers, why don’t you give them your name, address, and phone number when you make these little….observations. I’m sure they’d be happy to talk to you about it up close and personally.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Anglin, hisssssssssssss

@beccaf03, welcome! You have been lurking awhile then, thank you for saying hello! I really do wish that your hope was true, but I’ve met people with pretty nasty opinions. Have even had a close friend recently reveal some of those terrible opinions to me. More than one friend even. It’s traumatic! We assume a lot about the people we know, but lots can remain unspoken and assumed. (I also live in a pretty conservative area. Your mileage may vary!)

@Andy Cooper,

Some of his crazed followers will probably read his insanity and act out in real life

Hello! I don’t know if I’ve seen you before, welcome. I think you’re right that he’s just sort of pushing this onto his listeners/followers, but, well. Please read over the comments policy on diagnosing people as crazy over the internet! You’re sort of insulting and smearing people with actual mental issues, who are in general sweeties who don’t want to hurt anyone, and are much more likely to be the victims of violence and not the perpetrators!

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

Also the degree to which they are willing to risk jail time “defending” their backwards ideology.

This. Soooo much this. Having hyped the threat to the point of “white genocide”, proclaiming that the solution is to hurl mean words at women sounds a little pithy, doesn’t it? I mean, all the rank and file racists were coming in expecting to live out their Turner Diaries fantasies, right? “Oh, pffft, nah, we don’t want to actually risk our freedom and safety or anything. Just yell out ‘coal-burner’ at passing women and go home proud that you’ve defended the white race.”

Losers. Just effin’ losers.

Anarchonist
3 years ago

I’m certainly not implying White men should be (doing several horrible, disgusting, graphically described, violent things)

Wait, I thought unironically starting your sentences with “I’m not implying that…” but still implying exactly that is for cowards. Own up to your horrid beliefs, you absolute toilet stain.

Oh wait, my bad, he is a coward. Never mind.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

‘Race-mixing’ has always happened, it’s normal. People love and lust after who they love and lust after. Andrew Anglin and the fascists he’s encouraging are ignorant of history, human nature and biology.

I’ve read that Europeans in coastal areas are more likely to have traces of African DNA than inland Europeans and Africans in coastal areas are more likely to have traces of European DNA than inland Africans. This suggests that traders would meet and have romantic relationships or short term sexual relationships in the places their ships went and some of these relationships resulted in babies.

In the US it is so common for white people to get DNA tests and find black or Native American ancestry they never knew they had.

This idea that people were hermetically sealed on their own continents until the US came into existence and even then races kept entirely separate until the past few decades when interracial marriage became legal is just baffling. A really, really basic history reading will tell you that.

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