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MRA grandaddy Paul Elam: Dogwhistling his way into the Alt Right?

Make Paul Elam’s Hair Combed Again

By David Futrelle

I thought I’d ease myself back into posting with a little note on a fellow we haven’t heard from in some time: Paul Elam, the celebrated founder of hate site A Voice for Men.

Elam, who announced his official “retirement” as a Men’s Rights Activist last year (it didn’t take), now presents himself as a men’s therapist of sorts, and an advocate for men’s mental health, despite having no professional training as a therapist and despite his support for Republican efforts to destroy Obamacare, which would of course deprive tens of millions of Americans (half of them, you know, men) of mental health coverage.

But the reason for this post today is the Tweet below, which was brought to my attention by the excellent @TakeDownMRAs on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/890172845770362882

So is Elam trying, somewhat belatedly, to glom onto the Alt Right, the reactionary movement that has largely left Elam’s favorite reactionary movement, the Men’s Rights movement, in the dust? I mean, he doesn’t explicitly say he’s a white nationalist here, but he’s dogwhistling so loudly that you don’t have to be a dog to hear which way the whistle blows.

Elam has recently offered other, well, hints that he is broadly sympathetic to the Alt Right. He’s retweeted promo materials for an upcoming “Make Men Great Again” event headlined by prominent “Alt Lite” dudes Joe Biggs and Kyle “Based Stickman” Chapman. Biggs, a former InfoWars “reporter” and Pizzagate conspiracy theorist, regularly jokes about date rape and punching “trannys.” The Based Stickman, meanwhile, won fame in Alt Lite and Alt Right circles for, well, hitting leftists with a stick.

And Elam continues to retweet Indian “Men’s Rights” activist Amartya Talukdar, a Holocaust denier and literal Hitler fan (who also happens to be a plagiarist and marital rape apologist). (See here for my posts on this lovely fellow, who used to be a regular contributor to AVFM,  and Elam’s unwillingness to break with him.)

He also recently posted this weirdly racialized, or perhaps simply racist, meme:

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/883394561862623232

I feel so bad for all those poor white boys whose dreams are being destroyed by black women! Or I would, were I a white supremacist.

Still, despite Elam’s earnestly expressed White Pride. he does continue to show some sympathy for individual black men:

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/878370502854692865

And despite the Alt Right dogwhistling, Elam’s central focus remains the steadfast advocacy for men he’s long been known for:

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/875529332256624647

Good old Paul Elam, forever and always a huge piece of shit!

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dashapants
dashapants
3 years ago

A nearf or men? Are those my only two choices? Depends on the nearf, I guess. Is it house-trained?

Anyway, I know how to improve that “meme” to make sense. Put parental figures surrounding the girl and transfer her thought bubble to them.

Full disclosure: my mom and dad both had fulfilling dream careers… and the whole goddamn town was trying to get her to marry him, despite the fact that she seemingly could not stand his person.

I can’t exactly complain, being the end result of that mess, but the meme is utter shite.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
3 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

When Tim Peake went into space he was acclaimed as the UK’s first astronaut. But the thing is he wasn’t. That was actually Helen Sharman.

Yes, and when the media finally caught up with how insulting (and incorrect) that was, they started referring to him as the first official British astronaut. Which was hardly any better, but did let me speculate as to whether she wasn’t officially British (has Yorkshire seceded?) or not officially an astronaut (did she sneak on by hiding in a suitcase and stowing away?).

The wonders of the casually misogynist mind!

ETA It occurred to not one of them to refer to him as Britain’s first male astronaut, which would have had the decency of being correct and hilariously subversively feminist at the same time.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

(young boy gazing wistfully into the distance)

“Sponge off wife/girlfriend. Rant on computer about gold-digging women. Neglect personal hygiene. Poop out intact peanuts.”

Keep livin’ the dream, Paulie.

(Seriously, these MRAs can’t make up their minds whether their own wretched lives are meant to be cautionary tales, or inspirational guideposts for impressionable young men. I’m betting it’s some combination of “misery loves company” and something something fools and money. Every dollar that goes to wife & kids & other constructive goals is a dollar that doesn’t go to Paul. Remove the competition, destroy young men’s’ urge to invest in people other than themselves, and cha-ching!)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I hate the assumption that only boys dream about being an astronaut. Being an astronaut was my dream when I was a girl. One of my first words was ‘moon’ and I was gazing at the night sky before I even knew what an astronaut was.

Very few people of any gender or marital status ever get to fulfill this dream though.

Also, the supportive astronaut’s wife is a big cultural trope. Did Elam really not know this? Hasn’t he at least seen Apollo 13?

Oh, an the only adventurer I’ve ever met was Ann Bancroft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Bancroft

First woman to trek to the north pole. She’s also a lesbian, so I guess that’s double the misandry!

Bina
3 years ago

@Virgin Mary, that is terrible. And sadly, everyone knows a woman who is in similar straits, I’ll bet. So much is lost to sexism that it’s not even funny.

@ Lea:

He’s telling white men who never realized their boyhood dreams to blame women and black people.

Right?

And even more stupidly hilarious, his “women dream of marriage and use it to kill boys’ dreams” bullshit meme directly contradicts the “white nationalist”/Nazi/proudboy/insert bigot group name here shibboleth that they “venerate the housewife”, or that they’re “protecting our women” with all their Nazi bang-bang guns (or in the case of Based Shitman, rather appropriately, a closet rod). Hey Paulie and all you other tin-pot “nationalists”, you can’t tell women they belong married and at home, AND still get to piss on them for marrying and staying home!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ weatherwax

The Yorkshire Post dealt the matter in typically parochial style:

BRITISH astronaut Tim Peake has boldly gone where a Yorkshirewoman went before today when he became Britain’s first male astronaut.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/lift-off-as-tim-peake-follows-yorkshire-pioneer-into-space-1-7625606

has Yorkshire seceded?

(Yorkshire does have a larger population and bigger economy than Scotland, but I suspect if we ever go down the independence route it’ll involve some sort of Anschluss on the rest of the country)

Laserqueen
Laserqueen
3 years ago

I’ve worked with engineers and scientists for about 30 years. By far the most successful ones are the successfully partnered ones. Predominantly cis het men married to cis het women, across all colors and cultures of people.

So yeah, somehow women are holding men back from their successful dreams. It’s you, Paulie, it really is you holding yourself back from being a decent human.

Dan Hoan
3 years ago

But I thought women were stealing all the jobs! I thought all I was supposed to do was want to marry and have babies!

Its almost like you have a terrible world-view with contrasting views that can’t be brought together, so you just yell gibberish into the air and hope that even a small amount sticks.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

I never dreamed of being an astronaut, but I also never dreamed of getting married and having kids.

I didn’t really think about the future much beyond “I hope I will be safe and peaceful, and have enough funds to take care of myself”. I had a – fraught childhood.

My son, though, has daydreamed about being married and having children since he was 3 or 4 years old. Even now he often talks about it with me.

Of course he has other dreams, too.

I’m old enough to remember that for many years women were not encouraged to have any dreams at all outside marriage and family.

PreuxFox
PreuxFox
3 years ago

So is he under the impression that no male astronauts, professional athletes, inventors/entrepreneurs, or uh…adventurers are married? Because this seems like a very easy thing to fact-check. Especially when it comes to astronauts and athletes, who all have Wikipedia pages.

Or is he under the impression that he, personally, would have been able to achieve one of those careers if it hadn’t been for his ex-wife? Because in that case, LOL. He lives off scamming fellow men out of their money for ‘donations’ and ‘therapy’ instead of working, in what world would he be willing to put in the time and work to be successful at any of those careers?

Ellesar
Ellesar
3 years ago

Married men enjoy better health. it has been long known and continually studied:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-health

Married men who have a career suffer no hit to their income and men are not held back because they have children – in fact it can help them:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/upshot/a-child-helps-your-career-if-youre-a-man.html

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ preuxfox

Because this seems like a very easy thing to fact-check.

Did a bit of digging around. Can’t find any breakdowns of figures, but quite a few articles suggesting marriage is pretty common for astronauts (there’s at least one astronaut couple). I don’t have the maths or sociological skills to judge whether astronauts marry more or less than the general population. Interesting BBC feature though that suggests, at least in the early days, there was pressure on astronauts to be married. So it certainly wasn’t a career impediment back then at least.

At the height of the Apollo space programme of the 1960s, many would-be astronauts aching to be picked believed that their selection was largely based upon the success of their marriages. Marriage, it seems, was one of the rules of astronaut selection.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7085003.stm

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

Don’t worry, Pauly, I’m sure you’ll be around to see Julie Payette sworn in as Governor General of Canada (speaking of astronauts).

comment image

Can’t wait! She’s gonna be great!

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
3 years ago

@Gussie: I just saw this today too! How cool!!

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

Interesting BBC feature though that suggests, at least in the early days, there was pressure on astronauts to be married. So it certainly wasn’t a career impediment back then at least.

Married men who have a career suffer no hit to their income and men are not held back because they have children – in fact it can help them

I’ve worked with engineers and scientists for about 30 years. By far the most successful ones are the successfully partnered ones. Predominantly cis het men married to cis het women, across all colors and cultures of people.

(The following should be taken with a grain of salt – i am not a sociologist!)

That’s the primary action of the Old Boys Club at work, really. As you accrue things-to-raise-in-status, you’re entitled to more rewards from your social group. A spouse, a child – they’re status-raising relationships. Single men are allowed to be single while they’re young, but failing to collect those status-tokens indicates a lower status than those who do.

Women disrupt this arrangement because they are the status-tokens, so the men in the Old Boys Club need to reduce the status of a woman in the club, to maintain the value of their own tokens. Gay men do the same by eliminating the value of those tokens. At best, women and gay men in an Old Boys’ Club group (incredibly common) can aspire to equal status to single men, but they have to constantly fight to maintain that position.

They like to think that they’re super-rational objective science-mans, but really it’s all just a thin veil over ancient instinctual patterns. Doesn’t surprise me that they’d require astronauts to be married back in the day. They’ll say things like “It shows they have emotional maturity and a reason to come home!”, as if unmarried people wouldn’t have those things. Rationalization for maintaining the psychologically reassuring structure of the Old Boys’ Club, nothing more.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

ahmigah Julie Payette will be GG?!?!

I complain about our government sometimes, because oh boy do they get things wrong a lot, but they sure do get some things right too. She’s a great choice!

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@Gussie: I just saw this today too! How cool!!

It is pretty badass. Just reviewing her Wiki page, she went to my alma mater for her Masters (Skule represent, yo!), she obtained her commercial pilot’s license and logged 1300 flight hours(!), including on the CT-114 Tutor (the Snowbirds Acrobatic Team fly those) in preparation for her time in space, and spent 25.5 days in space on two missions to the ISS.

She’s more than earned a trip to Rideau Hall.

PreuxFox
PreuxFox
3 years ago

Interesting BBC feature though that suggests, at least in the early days, there was pressure on astronauts to be married.

I’m not surprised. They’re very public figures, especially back then, and there’s a lot of expectation for ‘official’ public figures to be married and the head of a nuclear family. I feel like an unmarried candidate for presidency would face a lot of pressure, too, for example.

(ETA that was meant to be @Alan Robertshaw, oops!)

JS
JS
3 years ago

Today in White House communications director tweets:
Scaramucci complains at FBI and JusticeDepartment that a publicly available financial disclosure document was leaked.

Senate votes at 2:15 about a “single payer” amendment sponsored by a Republican who doesn’t support Single Payer, in hopes of making Democrats in jeopardy of losing seats in red states vote for it and “prove” they’re in favor of it. It’s a political stunt amendment, as the Republicans say they don’t want it. Sanders says he won’t vote for it, but who knows what will actually happen if it proceeds to the floor.

It’s a duplicate of an amendment proposed in the House by a Democrat. I think it’d be wonderful if it did happen to pass, providing a Republican “own goal” of epic proportions.

I may have done this analysis wrong.

ETA: Ah, the nuclear family, where if everyone gets together, and hugs really tight, the house explodes in a mushroom cloud! (sorry, politics is making me a bit odder than usual)

Yay for female astronauts!

JS
JS
3 years ago

And Scaramucci has deleted the tweet in question. Such transparent! Very oops!

Quoting for posterity:
In light of the leak of my financial disclosure info which is a felony. I will be contacting @FBI and the @TheJusticeDept #swamp @Reince45 10:41 PM 26 Jul 17

Sheila Crosby
3 years ago

I applied to be an astronaut years ago, to go up to the Mir space station. It was a 6-page application form and took ages to fill in. Then a month later they replied (paraphrasing here) “We’ve had 13,000 applicants and we don’t want you. P.S. Wanna buy a T shirt?”
I didn’t buy the T short, although now I rather wish I had.
Helen Sharman got the job (she was much better qualified). So yes, I got annoyed at all the media calling Tim Peake the first British astronaut.

On the subject of women doing nothing for civilization – can you imagine how far we’d get if nobody taught kids to speak? Who mostly does that?

Sister Bat'leth of Rational Discussion
Sister Bat'leth of Rational Discussion
3 years ago

It would have been nice if Tim Peake had thought fast enough to correct the error himself, as Andy Murray did not long ago.

And yes, one of the reasons that men have an advantage career-wise is that most of them have a wife to handle the Second Shift stuff, so they can focus all their time and energy on their job.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

On the subject of women doing nothing for civilization – can you imagine how far we’d get if nobody taught kids to speak? Who mostly does that?

Women have done far more than that throughout history. I still find myself watching the two seasons of Worst Jobs In History hosted by the ever-awesome Sir Tony Robinson. Women (and children) fit into a lot of the more obscure, but vital jobs that made “civilization” what it was.

Buttwhistlers like Elam seem to have this mental picture of women just lazing around the house while the men are out working some kind of skilled trade (or being rugged manly military men). It’s a very narrow and paternalistic view of history born out of a number of things, from Victorian era romanticism to the Ozzie and Harriet nuclear family bullshit, but if that wasn’t bad enough, their conception of “civilization” seems to be limited to the greatest works of human achievement, as if there weren’t people conducting the day-to-day upkeep that made society run. Bootblackers, cooks, farmers, sanitation workers, matchmakers, fullers, dyers, charcoal makers, tanners… these are just some of the unsung jobs and women are at every level of these. A working class woman even a century ago couldn’t just sit on her ass, particularly if she was a member of a poor family, and often she had a hazardous job like being a fishwife (which risked being labelled a scold) or making matches (and developing phossy jaw). Women’s boxing matches date back to Georgian times and they were bloody affairs.

I’d pay cash money to watch Elam take on one of those boxers. I don’t care how tall he is; they fought bare-knuckle and didn’t pull punches.

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

My most unrealistic youthful dream was to someday be married and live in a house with my husband and kids.

In the United States in the 1970s, that counted as VERY unrealistic, but I lived long enough for it to come true.

Our sons were familiar with some other families growing up; Darlene and her daughter, Cynthia and her daughter, and Joe and his sons. Mothers with sons and fathers with daughters must have seemed quite exotic to them.

I still remember being at the park when a very little boy needed to use the toilet and his mom took him into the women’s restroom. Our younger son was astonished – he’d never seen it happen before.

Scolar Visari
Scolar Visari
3 years ago

On the subject of Helen Sharman, I think a lot of the reason people tend to forget her 1991 voyage to Mir is because it was on Mir (which wasn’t exactly the rock star that the International Space Station is), and because it was as a private citizen. Tim Peake’s career received attention because he happened to be the first British astronaut for the ESA and not as a private citizen or working for NASA as an American citizen like Michael Foale (who also happened to be on Mir when Spektr was depressurized). Prior to Peake’s selection, the United Kingdom government’s official position was that it was not participating in manned spaceflight.

Helen Sharman unfortunately shares the same fate as female cosmonauts who came after Valentina Tereshkova, whom also tend to be forgotten in spite of their contributions; like Svetlana Savitskaya being the first woman to EVA and first human to weld things in the freaking vacuum of space.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

Sometimes I’m really proud of what Canada does, like above.

And sometimes I’m humiliated and angry.

Coerced sterilization of First Nation women.

The Director of Maternal Services in the Saskatoon Health Region said

“Every woman, regardless of race or social circumstance, should feel safe in our care. This report serves as motivation to improve our services,” Smith said in the release.

Motivation to Improve our services. I have no words, certainly none as smarmy and glib as Mrs. Leanne Smith there. They want to offer apologies and to set up a support group to assist their healing journey.

mayitotakiw

Sheila Crosby
3 years ago

@Gussie Jives Oh I know. I’m from Yorkshire, where women and kids used to work down in coal mines. Women also worked in the weaving mills, some of them in very skilled jobs.

But you’d think even Paul Elam would notice that it’s mostly women who teach children to talk and that this is really rather important.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

I was fascinated with astronomy when I was a child. I never took it so far as to want to be an astronaut, but I was enamored of everything having to do with the heavens. When I was 11 years old, I spent a week at a summer camp that had an observatory. We were able to view sunspots – through a filter, I think. I don’t remember all the details.

What finally put a damper on my enthusiasm about astronomy was learning that I’d have to study a great deal of math, if I was serious about becoming an astronomer. No, thanks.

Susan
Susan
3 years ago

@ Weirwood:

Why don’t MRA memes ever make any damn sense.

As we say around here, I think the answer to your question is in your question.

Susan
Susan
3 years ago

@dreemr: If your 3 yo child is dreaming of a home and children I suspect you are providing a lovely, loving home to him. Kids that little don’t know how to want what they don’t see.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Preux

I feel like an unmarried candidate for presidency would face a lot of pressure, too, for example

Sorta (TW: rape)

Buchanan was constantly hounded about it. Lotta people thought and think that he was gay. Speculation about which was used to make him seem a weak person and President. And he was ineffectual in office, but somehow i doubt that had anything to do with orientation

Oppo research on Clevand found that he sired a child out of wedlock. He struck back that Ms Halpin was… of questionable morality and that the baby could be anybody’s. This won over the public, cos of course (she’s a skank, so she doesn’t matter. And isn’t he honest and dignified? See: every modern Republican in a hetero sex scandal)
He did fail to mention, in his honesty, that he (allegedly, likely) raped her, had her and the child separated, and threw her in an asylum, before the smear campaign. Oddly, that part didn’t get much press. Then he got married, and that’s its own bucket of shit…

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

Motivation to Improve our services.

*clonk* *clonk* *clonk* (the sound of me hitting my head against the wall)

Disappointed, Saskatoon! Very disappointed!

And this article by Mi’kmaq professor Pamela Palmater doesn’t paint a pretty picture of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women’s Inquiry. The government didn’t extend it to looking at the police forces?! They bloody daft?!! No wonder it’s been so ineffective.

We expect better of you, Justin and Co. Do this thing right!

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Susan – awww, thank you for that very sweet and kind perspective.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

sigh.

My cousin is in law enforcement, and he spent several years working in a reserve. His dismissive attitude when First Nation issues come up makes my skin crawl. And the casual racism I see so often, from almost everyone around me, doesn’t help any. Anyone who can’t see how big an issue race is today just isn’t opening their eyes.

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

I know a number of people in astro who went in because they wanted to be astronauts when they were kids. Even though what Dormousing_it says is very common, there’s a lot of people who put up with the maths because they adore the vision of themselves travelling through space.

Lots of little girls dream of being astronauts. Some of them lose the dream; others are inspired to go into science. We need to foster those dreams and to keep them from being discouraged. The world needs more astronomers and astrophysicists, after all. We have work to do.

JoeB
JoeB
3 years ago

OT but holy shit you guys. I can’t even describe this interview Scaramucci just gave.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon

“Reince is a fucking paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac,” Scaramucci said. He channelled Priebus as he spoke: “ ‘Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the fucking thing and see if I can cock-block these people the way I cock-blocked Scaramucci for six months.’ ” (Priebus did not respond to a request for comment.)

“I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock,” he said, speaking of Trump’s chief strategist. “I’m not trying to build my own brand off the fucking strength of the President. I’m here to serve the country.” (Bannon declined to comment.)

“They’ll all be fired by me,” he said. “I fired one guy the other day. I have three to four people I’ll fire tomorrow. I’ll get to the person who leaked that to you.

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

Back women women were shut out of most careers and higher education they didn’t dream of marrying up, the were often forced to.

TW: rape, mutilation and forced marriage, homophobia, racism, ablism, suicide.
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My own great-grandmother was forced to have all her teeth pulled so dentures would give her a perfect smile and she wouldn’t cost her husband anything in the way of dental bills. She was told to marry an older (quite unattractive and unkind) man with money and on her wedding day when she tried to back out, her mother slapped her and sent her down the isle in tears.

Her father was a drunk and her mother’s antique business had kept the family fed after her dad’s business failed. They needed to marry their daughter off for the money and social standing.

Having been raped on a date with a well to do young man with the nicest horse and carriage in town (The family blamed a mysterious “migrant worker” when they couldn’t hide it. *shudder*) she was damaged goods. But she was pretty and she could cook, keep house and have babies.

She was not a happy woman. She had numerous “nervous breakdowns”. She lost her infant daughter to Scarlet Fever. Her son, my grandfather died fairly young. She married and buried a few husbands and once told me, “All my husbands were sons of bitches but I got a brand new car every time I got married.”
It gave me chills.

Yes, she was materialistic. She was made to be. They used to tell girls back then, “If you want a million dollars, you’re sitting on it.” They never said, “If you want a million dollars, stay in school.” Marrying for love during the depression was a luxury many could not afford. Families basically sold their daughters when they could.

Besides, men were expected to cheat. Marrying for love wouldn’t make a woman happy. It was said that on Sundays the men in that little Indiana town would bring their families home from church (where the KKK would occasionally have weinie roasts for the kids) and then drive straight to the local cat house.

Or they did until the cat house mysteriously burned down. Rumor had it some local wives did it. It did nothing to stop the philandering.

Similarly, secretaries “sleeping” with their employers was done out of coercion. If a woman wanted to keep her job, that’s what she had to do. Sure, the wives hated them and blamed them. They were trained to, just like they hated and blamed the sex workers.

All these stereotypes of greedy, manipulative, backstabbing women are really blaming the evil men did on the women they did it to.

All the issues the MAGA crowd pretends are new, aren’t.

I had a great uncle who remained a bachelor and always employed handsome houseboys. But he wasn’t gay! /s No one was gay. They weren’t allowed to be.

The mentally ill were quietly locked away or took their own lives and the families never spoke of them. That happened to another uncle on the other side of the family. (He had been my mother’s favorite because he wouldn’t let her mother spank her when he was home.)

Those are the good old days people want to see return when they say they want to MAGA.
There was nothing good about them unless you were a well off white man.

Paul and the manosphere/alt-right types know it too.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

Things I wanted to do/be when I grew up, when I was a kid: #1 long-distance lorry driver; #2 write for the New Scientist (I knew it must be Important because my mum and dad read it, so of course writing for it must be the best thing with words in). There were some others, but I don’t remember them.
I do neither of those things, but I do sometimes find myself translating academic articles on medical research so I suppose that puts me marginally closer to #2 …

The myth that women ruin men’s lives by crushing their childhood dreams is interestingly blinkered and more back-to-front than not; a) capitalism does a bang-up job of crushing most people’s dreams, and b) women are even more likely than men to give up ambitions to do something fulfilling in order to meet their family’s immediate needs.

It’s a nasty myth, though, and one perfectly designed to make men and women resent and despise one another. A sexism-flavoured divide-and-conquer on the micro, family-sized scale? Like racism is so useful to capitalism (it’s those evil foreigners stealing the jobs) on the divide-and-conquer class-sized scale … ? (I’m rambling on the strength of some wine, in case it wasn’t obvious)

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@JoeB

I just read that article and (as I just tweeted) it is fucking DELIGHTFUL, in a weird, end-of-days-so-I-might-as-well-laugh way.

You know what Mooch & Drumpf? You guys go right ahead. Go ahead and fire everybody and put your own people in place. DO IT! Stack the ranks with more criminals!

Because as soon as there are NO “adults” in the room, the sooner we get these assholes impeached and, hopefully, imprisoned. (THAT MEANS YOU TOO, JEFFY SESSIONS).

Buffalo Headroom (it doesn't have to make sense)

Paul Elam isn’t worth the shit in my ass crack.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

The myth that women ruin men’s lives by crushing their childhood dreams is interestingly blinkered and more back-to-front than not; a) capitalism does a bang-up job of crushing most people’s dreams, and b) women are even more likely than men to give up ambitions to do something fulfilling in order to meet their family’s immediate needs.

It’s funny how in the manuresphere, when a man gives up on a childhood career dream to take a boring but stable job to support his family, it’s all the machinations of evil wimmenz crushing the dreams of innocent menz. It’s never considered his choice at all. But when a woman gives up on pursuing her career dreams to support her family it’s because women are too lazy to pursue high powered careers. The wage gap is all women’s fault because instead of working hard, they have to cut back on their hours to take of the kids.

They can never accept the fact that capitalism forces the majority of people of all genders and races into doing what they have to do survive and perhaps have a halfway decent quality of life. That would take the wind out of the misogynist and/or libertarian sails and we can’t have that, can we?

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

But when a woman gives up on pursuing her career dreams to support her family it’s because women are too lazy to pursue high powered careers.

And if she doesn’t give up her career dreams, she’s a cold, selfish harpy who really needs a good man to settle her down.

Men, meanwhile? A man sacrificing his career for his family is a noble and loving patriarch with his heart in the right place. A man pursuing his career dreams in spite of his family is a noble and ambitious paragon.

Men can do no wrong, women can do no right.

Sorry, I’m grumpy now I guess!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

How did the good old days go for my family? Lets see.

On my mom’s side, my great aunt was raped while passed out drunk at a party when she was a teenager. She became pregnant from the rape. The rapist was from a rich family. They payed our family off to send her away to have the baby and put it up for adoption. I guess that worked out better for her than being forced to marry her rapist though.

My great-great uncle was almost certainly gay and probably on the autism spectrum (it runs in our family). He was just known as an eccentric bachelor, of course. He had a good job and made a lot of money but was probably lonely and depressed. He eventually committed suicide. He did leave my grandparents a bit of money and my grandmother had a natural talent for investing that didn’t lead anywhere because the closest she got to working in finance was working as a bank teller before she got married and became a housewife. She did invest well and make some money. In other words, it’s not a straight man that is responsible for our family having a modest sum of money that we can use in case of financial emergency.

On my dad’s side, my great grandmother died in childbirth. My grandmother and her brother grew up on my great-great grandfather’s farm because her father didn’t want to care for her and her brother after her mother died. They had a decent enough childhood. Until their grandfather died and they had to go live with the father who didn’t want them. They weren’t adequately fed and my grandmother was verbally abused by her father. He was always calling her ugly. She would also get in trouble if she took any food from the kitchen without permission.

Yeah, the good old days were just fucking fantastic.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

The polar explorer I’ve actually met is Matty McNair (friend of friends). I’ve seen but not been introduced to her daughter, who’s taken over from her retired mom.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matty_McNair

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

@ Virgin Mary,

I didn’t have the world’s best childhood either, I come from a broken home, all of my relatives are divorced. And our pal T here says “me too”.

In my case, it’s hard to put into words. Not because there was anything shocking, if anything the opposite. The banality of it all. And forget men and women – how about how quickly the children are cast aside?

I don’t trust people.

That’s not too bad of an issue, and I do have some nice friends, I have had some OK relationships with men (as a straight female), I have no desire for the ‘traditional family’ type of thing though, forget that. I’ve never seen that work out.

Well in a few instances I have, was thinking of my immediate relatives, there were two gung ho family types who did it, seemingly successfully, – these are now also getting divorced. I guess props for not deserting young kids? They did crap out also, both on the H’s end, who had a stereotypical mid life crisis.

I’m glad I took a pass on it all. You’ll get a lot of flak for it too.
And you have to be strong minded to resist it. The propaganda.
I never had any trouble resisting any “biological urges” re kids – because I don’t have any.

If you are reasonably good looking you’ll get hit on by any and all men including married men, which gives you a bad opinion. Way to disrespect your wife ASSHOLE.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Re: the women can be Lords thing.

BBC IPlayer has a great documentary about Aethelflaed. She was King Alfred’s daughter. At the time the nobility had adopted the Carolignian practice that wives of Kings/Lords (Saxon kings were referred to as Lord) could rule in their name if the King/Lord was otherwise indisposed (eg away at war or pilgrimage). And such women were referred to as Lord for the duration.

After Aethelflaed’s husband died though the Saxons were happy for her to rule in her own right (she’d pretty much been running the country anyway). To make that clear she commissioned her scribes to come up with a new term.

And thus she was the first “Lady of the Mercians”

(Her daughter succeeded her; the only time in Brit history that’s happened. Unfortunately her cousin Edward ‘disappeared’ her.)

Tov01
Tov01
3 years ago

@JoeB

That is hilarious, and also despair-inducing. Just when you thing the white house can’t be more of a clusterfuck…

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

@JoeB
Everyday I’m reminded that the Electoral College “the elites know best, for themselves specifically. You the poor, get a job” members are the ones who said “fuck popular vote, let the bigot who constantly tries to undermine the authority and integrity of the nation.

Yeah, they sure know best, after all cash is god and holiness in this country.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

There’s dog whistles and then there’s dog farts. Elam’s letting rip a couple of farts, he’s trying so hard to whistle.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 years ago

Hello.

Come on, Elam, you are not even close of a luwak… And i do not know if you are anal for men, but indeed, your scatology concur with you being an asshole…

Have a nice day.