Categories
alt-lite alt-right daily stormer do you even lift empathy deficit entitled babies evil fat fatties heartiste homophobia irony alert literal nazis macho macho men men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny racism

Nazi idiots accuse CDC of lowering “normal” testosterone range in plot to turn men gay

Typical low-testosterone gay men

The Summer 2017 WHTM pledge drive is on! Donate generously to enable our continuing coverage of fat-shaming Nazi homophobes! Thanks! 

By David Futrelle

Watch out, straight dudes! The government is coming for your manhood!

Or at least that’s the accusation being leveled at internet Nazis. On neo-Nazi internet tip sheet The Daily Stormer, the writer known as Zeiger points to a six-month old Science Daily article reporting the results of a large-scale study designed to more accurately determine “normal” testosterone levels in men. Shockingly, to Zeiger at least, the study determined that the old “normal’ range was a bit high. The CDC and medical testing companies are adjusting their standards accordingly.

Zeiger is not pleased. “The chemical castration of the Western male is about to be kicked up to the next level,” he warns. “It’s a transparent push to feminize men and normalize being a low-T f*ggot.”

Zeiger warns that the new “normal” could even lead to the government trying to TERK OUR TERTOSTERONE!

[T]f this process continues, you could start seeing men with healthy testosterone begin to be seen as “pathological” because their levels are “too high” compared with the new standard. So power-lifters who watch their diets could start being prescribed drugs to lower their T levels.

First they came for the power lifters …

Over on his blog, Nazoid pickup artist James “Heartiste” Weidmann raises the alarm in even more outlandish prose.

Mother fucking yahweh, this is a declaration of war against masculinity. The ruling class wants a compliant and pacified herd of puppy dogs in place of the White men who could pose a threat to their ill-gotten and corrupted sinecures.

The soyfatted manboobed weepy feminist nümale is not a meme. It’s real! 

Hey, I think he means me!

Think about the implications. Are you a high T man who’s within the formerly normal range of male serum testosterone level? Guess what, you’re now suffering from pathologically high testosterone. Report to your nearest feminization camp for the requisite T-lowering Mazeltov cocktail of beta blockers, SSRIs, estrogen, dissolved birth control pills drawn from the local tap, and opioids.

There is a Western-wide War on Men, because the effete low T Globohomo taintlickers that have somehow wormed their way into power and laugh at the plebs assaulted by Diversity™ from behind their gated communities know…they KNOW fam…that testosterone is the elixir of the god emperors, and a million god emperors whose veins flow with the power of T and whose hearts are opened to ethereal channels of connection to their mighty warrior ancestors through their shared high T heritage are the ONLY FOE WITH THE FORCE OF WILL to oust the degenerate elite from their plush sanctums.

I think Heartiste is huffing something, but it’s not testosterone.

Pull the Goylent feeding tube from your soulgut and reclaim your rightful place in the pantheon of powerful White men as heir to a noble race of warrior poets.

Sorry dude, but making up words like “globohomo” and  “Goylant” doesn’t actually make you a poet, much less a warrior.

Our government is evil. It wants to pathologize masculine men and normalize fat women. The bureaucratic machine and its elite operators assault the very notion of Truth and Beauty, which they want replaced with Lies and Ugliness. This is our generation’s war, and I can’t think of a nobler reason to fight than the nature of our enemy…a globalist swarm of soulless atomized grubby usurers with no attachment to anything but their continued power.

So Heartiste is declaring war on … fat people? Well, if it’s on, it’s on. So, fellow fatties, if you ever run across Mr. Weidmann, I suggest you gut-check him to the ground and sit on him.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

215 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

@ Alan

My mother’s family is originally from Yorkshire, and if I’m remembering the family history correctly, the ancestor who came over was a younger son seeking his fortune in the New World.

I’m glad you liked the vid. 🙂

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Oh not Lesley bloody Garrett. She should be prevented by law from ruining popular songs.

JS
JS
3 years ago

@Falconer A SPOILER WARNING would have been nice.

Ellesar
Ellesar
3 years ago

I am happy with the casting of Jodie Whittaker as the new Dr Who, not least because it means that Kris Marshall won’t be (a view shared by many it appears)!

TBH I would have loved Tilda Swinton as the first female doctor. I haven’t seen a lot of JW .

PS – Yes, Attack The Block is well worth a watch.

CleverForAGirl
CleverForAGirl
3 years ago

Hambeast – I have an ex from HS who shows up every 5 years or so to pull shit like this, an ex husband who gaslighted the crap out of me, and probably a few friends who are on the “you’re fat b/c you’re lazy/stupid” but won’t say anything to my face. (come at me bro, I got peer reviewed studies!)

Kupo – When it gets bad and I’m thinking of doing something stupid (swallow balloons? why not? Let’s get my stomache amputated for no goddamned reason) I remind myself that the only hard part about my weight is how other people treat me, and if I won’t grow my hair, or paint my nails for them, then why the fuck would I risk permanent damage for them. Fuck them, where’s my sleeveless top and skirt!

Slightly OT – I worry about my fat posts sometimes, cause it’s like, “Oh god, clever is talking about her ass, again”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Attack The Block is well worth a watch.

Nthing the love for Attack the Block. I just wish they’d implied the estate was the Jasmine Allen so it could be a lost episode of The Bill; that would have been so perfect.

(in my head it is)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ cleverforagirl

if I won’t grow my hair

FWIW, I think you’ve got some of the coolest hair on the planet.

clever is talking about her ass, again

Well, I’m sure it’s more welcome than me constantly talking out of my ass. 🙂

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

I don’t think Alan can be impartial what with his ass sanctuary, but I love hearing about your glorious ass, Clever! (I don’t remember who had the glorious ass in that thread months ago, but I felt it fit here!) And I’m munching on chips right now straight from the bag, so I’m doing okay, I just can’t fit in some of my clothes and have been feeling bad about that. I’ll get over it. But when I see the talk of how great losing weight is it can set me back a bit.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

warrior poets

*squints into the distance*

I was on patrol with the 54th Men From Nantucket, when all of a sudden an enemy platoon ambushed our squad. As the assailants closed in, pinning us down with anapests, I lay motionless on the ground. When the smoke cleared, I tossed a sonnet into their midst and destroyed three free-verse nests before being gravely wounded by compact lyricism and the displaced grief of systemic colonialism.

When I came to, they awarded me a purple Pushcart. I keep it in a drawer with my buddy’s doggerel tags. It wasn’t anything, really. Thank God we’d all had the Goylent feeding tube pulled from our soulguts the day before.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

The “Artists’ Rifles” used to be regiment of the British army: not just warrior poets, but warrior painters, warrior cellists, warrior actors etc. I frequently walk by their former HQ:

comment image

CleverForAGirl
CleverForAGirl
3 years ago

Alan – lol TY

Kupo – I was the one with the glorious ass. And you eat those chips, in slow motion, while pretending to make eye contact with a fat shamer. If you’re in the USA hot topic and torrid both have plus size who shirts. . .and I think there’s a sale going on. . .

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Buttercup

*squints into the distance*

My cacklebox hurts 😁😁😁

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

When I was at UC Berkeley, there was a downtown fish and chips place run by a delightful old Yorkshire couple. They had, among other atmospheric decor, an illustrated poster of the Ilkla Moor lyrics.

Including a nice cartoon of the duck eating the worms.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ moggie

The “Artists’ Rifles” used to be regiment of the British army:

They still exist. They’re now “21 SAS Regiment (Artists)”

geoff f.
geoff f.
3 years ago

testosterone is the elixir of the god emperors, and a million god emperors whose veins flow with the power of T and whose hearts are opened to ethereal channels of connection to their mighty warrior ancestors through their shared high T heritage are the ONLY FOE WITH THE FORCE OF WILL to oust the degenerate elite from their plush sanctums.

Damn, that’s some bad writing…

Falconer
Falconer
3 years ago

@JS — Sorry!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Why do all of Nanny Ogg’s Bosom’s posts always show up late like they’re stuck in moderation?

Nanny, if you’re reading this, you might want to email David about it. If he never took you out of moderation, I’m sure it’s accidental or it’s a glitch or something.

Bina
3 years ago

I think Heartiste is huffing something, but it’s not testosterone.

My money’s on crystal meth.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
3 years ago

I think that whole “warrior poets” thing comes from Braveheart, at the very end. I’ve only ever heard it uttered in that movie.

Also, as always the Right wing will complain about food stamps but will not say a word about the bloated military budget. Even in the hypothetical scenario that some of the money was being wasted, it’s better to “waste” some money whilst helping keep millions afloat than it is to throw money into murder and rampant human rights violations.

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

a million god emperors whose veins flow with the power of T and whose hearts are opened to ethereal channels of connection to their mighty warrior ancestors through their shared high T heritage are the ONLY FOE WITH THE FORCE OF WILL to oust the degenerate elite from their plush sanctums.

So are the million God-Emperors not degenerate elites? Do the elites lord it over the God-Emperors? Seriously, I’m aware that the term “Emperor” has undergone inflation recently, but this is a little silly.

Protip: If degenerate elites can lord it over you, then you’re not an Emperor.

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

Also, does anyone else think that Robert E. Howard has a lot to answer for?

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

*squints into the distance*

I was on patrol with the 54th Men From Nantucket, when all of a sudden an enemy platoon ambushed our squad. As the assailants closed in, pinning us down with anapests, I lay motionless on the ground. When the smoke cleared, I tossed a sonnet into their midst and destroyed three free-verse nests before being gravely wounded by compact lyricism and the displaced grief of systemic colonialism.

When I came to, they awarded me a purple Pushcart. I keep it in a drawer with my buddy’s doggerel tags. It wasn’t anything, really. Thank God we’d all had the Goylent feeding tube pulled from our soulguts the day before.

That was amazing.

Falconer
Falconer
3 years ago

Bravo, Buttercup!

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

Buttercup Q Skullpants, you are the happiness that the world needs.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants
That was a spectacular paragraph of poetry terms.

AngryWarthogBreath
AngryWarthogBreath
3 years ago

In Katamari Damacy games, the King of All Cosmos is said to have the soul of a warrior-poet.

He frequently goes on rampages both stupid and destructive, and in so doing makes work for those around him more caring and responsible.

So, yeah, about right.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
3 years ago

This has probably been mentioned before but: David, can we PLEASE have a post about how the manosphere is freaking out over the 13th Doctor being a woman?

Twitter is a hilarious place to be right now.

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

Thought of something re ‘diet’ which may grind these peoples’ gears –

I myself got so sick of all the troll level political BS online and on TV – that I switched to cooking shows.

And carried on with reading about cooking online.

I even saw a guy’s personal ad, which instead of raging like these guys, he said something like (and it was for friends, general interest, too) – I like to watch all the PBS cooking shows, who else watches these?

Right here! Me and most people I know.

I took up an interest in cooking because of this! “Nielsen Ratings” (TV) ? – It would be interesting to see what “presidential” press conferences rate if opposite Martha or Jacques.

Or Lidia, or Steve, or the Jazzy Vegetarian – they all have plenty of great recipes to be found online too.

Side note –

We have talked our other friend into making a liquor store + Taco Bell run!!!

I do believe such is healthy as it ‘clears the system’ and what not 🙂

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

David, can we PLEASE have a post about how the manosphere is freaking out over the 13th Doctor being a woman?

Seconded

This
comment image
is Fancy Pants Alexander. She’s the only girl in this litter.
comment image
comment image
Look at her little pawsies!

Also, I made an important discovery today: There are Persians without the squished face!

Bina
3 years ago

@PaganReader:

Thumbs! SQUEEEEEEEEE! I’m the proud property of a (torbie longhair, possibly Maine Coon) thumbkitty myself. It’s like extra sweetness gets built right in along with the extra toes, eh?

Ahem. Back to topic:

warrior poets

LOLwut? Uh, NO. Anyone who writes dreck like this…

There is a Western-wide War on Men, because the effete low T Globohomo taintlickers that have somehow wormed their way into power and laugh at the plebs assaulted by Diversity™ from behind their gated communities know…they KNOW fam…that testosterone is the elixir of the god emperors, and a million god emperors whose veins flow with the power of T and whose hearts are opened to ethereal channels of connection to their mighty warrior ancestors through their shared high T heritage are the ONLY FOE WITH THE FORCE OF WILL to oust the degenerate elite from their plush sanctums.

…is most certainly NOT a poet, much less a warrior. He’s a barely sentient flying monkey who has figured out how to operate a keyboard, but not how to make a lick of sense thereon.

Or to put it as an actual warrior poet might:

I think that one can safely say
There is no poet in a PUA
Who flingeth shite against the wall
To see how much may stick or fall;
Much less in one who can’t rhapsodize
Without getting jizz in the poor reader’s eyes.

Maybe he’d be able to write better if he weren’t trying to do it one-handed.

Mattie
Mattie
3 years ago

What do high-testosterone or low-testosterone (cis) men have to do with fat women???

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@Z&T

My husband and I have been binge watching GUSTO channel. Many, many cooking shows as well as some cultural stuff.

PBS Seattle doesn’t have much in the way of cooking shows. Tends toward BBC mystery shows. (I really miss not getting PBS Detroit anymore *kicks local cable company*)

Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
3 years ago

Buttercup:

I was on patrol with the 54th Men From Nantucket, when all of a sudden an enemy platoon ambushed our squad.

Since Nantucket is in Massachusetts, this seems like a good time to link to some history on the real 54th Massachusetts, remembered for being “the first African-American regiment organized in the northern states during the Civil War.”

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

Aww, thanks everyone! My right knee still aches occasionally whenever someone reads Housman.

In all seriousness, it’s so telling that poet-warriors who actually see combat (Sassoon, Owen, Graves) tend to be very much anti-war. How could they experience the senseless horrors of the trenches and not write about them? The jingoistic macho stuff that Heartiste has in mind generally gets written by people comfortably removed from battle. Ferinstance, Owen wrote “Dulce Et Decorum Est” as a direct reponse to Jessie Pope, who was penning sentimental odes to war that were being used to lure young men to the front.

It’s a pretty straight line of descent to today’s crop of pathetic rah-rah chickenhawks still beating the drum for war: Ted Nugent, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Heartiste. Tiny little pretend god-emperors, pushing other men to make the ultimate sacrifice so they can bask in reflected glory. The old lie, indeed.

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

@ Fishy Goat,

I will have to check out this “gusto” !

Not many cooking shows on Seattle PBS? Hmmm.

We have tons here in Chicago on PBS channels. If there’s not many there, you know what that means –> OPPORTUNITY for chefs, cooking, and TV and tech people! 🙂

And OK, D Town? I just successfully choked down two TB tacos and might be hallucinating here….

I am hallucinating other foods 🙂 I remembered a recent thing because a friend of mine said some friend of hers went on vacay to MI.

HOLD ON. I seriously tried to pitch this idea too – to obtain the “Presidents Choice” Seafood Lasagna. Which is the greatest food that ever was! Jewel stores used to sell it here in Chi – but then they stopped doing biz with them.

I researched this all online. With a fever unmatched by even the most die hard Incel looking to win a free robot sex doll.

And I found it. And they’re still in biz. And still making the Seafood Lasagna. It’s a Canadian company and the closest place to get it would be right over the border from Detroit.

I told this friend: Listen, you have to tell this guy to DRIVE LIKE A BAT OUT OF HELL TO D TOWN RIGHT NOW!!! AND THEN CROSS INTO CANADA BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

PASSPORT???? FUCK PASSPORTS!!!

We can find some local streets they can get in there on, no checkpoints, hop a barge if need be. Bribe people!

I HAVE TO HAVE THIS!!! DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

And once they get some, they too will understand WHY.

Cristopher Cross is singing Ride Like The Wind, in my mind, as I type this.

“Presidents Choice” Seafood Lasagna still exists. In Canada.
And you can get it at stores right over the border from Detroit.

So close, and yet – so far….

Instead of weeping piteously and yelling WHY? WHYYY?????
I have been trying to find sim recipes online. Make my own 🙂

Some prepared foods are made well and are relatively healthy. And just when you find them they often disappear…..

Speaking of grocery stores, I nearly forgot Jo Jo….

Stumbled upon this –

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/huppke/ct-jewel-osco-mascot-jojo-huppke-20170630-story.html

Evidently the aforementioned Jewel (local large grocery chain) – decided to make themselves a mascot now. And it is, – this. Creature.
Uh, ok…..

I agree with the writer there, I think it’s going to terrify shoppers.
They did this, and they got rid of the PC Seafood Lasagna.

WHY?

WHY??????

I can make it to Canada! It’s not that far!!!

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Whenever I read anything by Weidman, I have an almost irresistable urge to send him a thousand copies of Strunk & White.

Of all the young poets who were lost in World War I, the one whose mature work I miss the most is Wilfred Owen.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@Z&T I suppose I should clarify that I miss PBS Detroit for the documentaries that I can no longer watch, but still show up on my cable provider’s channel listings. 😀

Ah, yes, the PC seafood lasagna. I know whereof you speak. 😀 Any canadian grocery store that is a loblaws, Real Canadian Superstore, or Independant will have them.

CleverForAGirl
CleverForAGirl
3 years ago

I’m addicted to food network. When I want to cook, I tend to look for info in books and online, but sometimes I just want to see alton brown squirt someone with a supersoaker while they try to make fish n chips.

Sheila Crosby
3 years ago

@Victorious Parasol
Thank you for Ilkley Moor. Got all nostalgic, I did.
Next person who gets to White Wells, throw in a penny for me.

Nanny Ogg's Bosom
Nanny Ogg's Bosom
3 years ago

@wwth

My posts have been getting stuck in moderation since I changed my nym. I’m going to email David now. My email address didn’t change (except that one time I used my phone instead of my laptop).

R.e. Ilkley Moor

I’ve been past it a few times on the way to somewhere else, but never actually been.

r.e. Fish and Chips. Everyone knows the best fish and chips comes from Grimsby/Cleethorpes and the fish has to be haddock. Cod is full of worms. 😀

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

You’re welcome, Sheila! Glad you enjoyed it.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

CleverForAGirl: my dietician (ok, actually my partner) mentions there’s increasing literature supporting a vegan Mediterranean diet helping with health outcomes.

There’s plenty of correlation between urbanization, education, and BMI. It’s pretty clear that high BMI does not directly reduce population density through antigravity. The other potential causal links are less clear, though there’s lots of just-so stories.

WWTH: you asked how people can know other people are on food stamps. My guess: they’re not waiting for some to fumble a card — they’re merely noticing the black skin.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

@GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina: Yep, me too. He was killed very close to Armistice Day. In fact, his mother was informed of his death on Armistice Day, while the church bells were ringing out in celebration. I can’t even imagine how heartbreaking that must have been.

Re: Heartiste’s tantrum, it’s pretty rich how guys who continually move the goalposts to benefit themselves suddenly get salty when reference ranges get adjusted in a direction that doesn’t favor them. (Or so they claim…as others have said, we don’t have any evidence that these supreme alphas would fall outside the new range).

These are guys who spend their days pathologizing anything remotely feminine as sick and abnormal, and they see nothing wrong or contradictory about this.

Besides the hypocrisy, more is not better when it comes to hormones. They work in tandem with each other. There’s an optimum balance. Not that you’d expect these STEMlords to understand that. All they see is “The government wants to suppress testosterone! They hate men!” Heartiste literally thinks T is divine ichor and must never, ever, be questioned or reined in.

Sweet maple Moses (to steal Scildreja’s phrase), their sacred cows practically beg to be taken down a notch (to steal Heartiste’s technique of cringy metaphors).

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

Oh good lord, On Ilkla Moor Baht ‘at.

At the Anglican church in Victoria, B.C. that my family went to we once had a Lay Canon who actually was from Yorkshire. (The church tended to end up with annoying priests who would eventually get transferred and be replaced by terrific lay readers who would be only temporary assignments before another priest came in and messed things up again.)

At the big farewell dinner before he left the church, he led the entire congregation in a rousing rendition of On Ilkla Moor Baht ‘at in exactly the same deep resonant voice he used from the pulpit. He was obviously having way too much fun.

That was the first time I’d ever heard the song. It was… surreal.

JS
JS
3 years ago

There are state EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer) cards that can be used to purchase tobacco (or anything else, since you can get cash out). These are the ones that unemployed persons get for a short time after they become unemployed for certain reasons. The funds are unrestricted use. Most people just deposit them into a bank acount, but for those who can’t, or don’t want, to get a bank account, this is an option in some states.

Just because somebody has a “food stamp card” doesn’t mean they’re actually using “food stamps”. Besides, it hasn’t been officially called food stamps for many years now. It’s WIC (Women Infants Children (male parents of young children can get benefits for them)), SNAP (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program), or TANF (Temporary Aid to Needy Families) in many states.

The idea that, “You’re poor, you don’t deserve to spend money on fun things”, is ridiculous.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

The Cornish anthem is called ‘Trelawney’, and that’s similarly rousing with a great chorus.

“And will Trelawney live,
Or will Trelawney die?
There’s 20,000 Cornishmen
Would know the reason why.”

Of course I couldn’t resist finding out more. Turns out Trelawney was a bishop caught up in a row about a new prayer book. So he went to some meeting about it. He was never actually in any danger; the worst he risked was being forced into early retirement (on a full pension).

Don’t tell Cornish nationalists that though unless you’re bored with having teeth.

CleverForAGirl
CleverForAGirl
3 years ago

numerobis – I could see how that diet could have a pretty good outcome for a lot of people, but it would kill my poor dude. We have to keep a fairly tight rein on phos, potassium, calcium, sodium, while he has to ingest massive amounts of protein b/c of the type of dialysis he’s on. I tend to make small tweaks to his diet month to month based on labs, that and the scratch cooking keeps his dietician drawing smiley faces on the labs. lol

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

He was never actually in any danger; the worst he risked was being forced into early retirement (on a full pension).

You’re kidding O.O
I always completely assumed Trelawney must have been a leader of an independence movement/an uprising/a something bold etc.
They taught us that song in school. I haz a bewilder.

Diptych
Diptych
3 years ago

So… Trelawney would definitely live, but 20,000 Cornishmen wouldn’t know the reason why? This song seems like a very unreliable source.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ opposablethumbs & diptych

‘would know the reason why’ apparently means ‘you’ll have us to answer to’. Although it seems very few people were that bothered about the affair at the time.

The song originated quite some time afterwards. The tune isn’t even original, it’s from a napoleonic war ballad.

But that’s the Cornish for you. There’s no evidence they ever engaged in wrecking until some vicar published a romantic, but apocryphal, pamphlet about it. Then they all went “that sounds brilliant!” and took it up with a vengeance.

It’s still a tradition. You probably read about how they cleaned out that container ship that ran aground. And I once went with some mates after an ASDA lorry had overturned on a hill. (left it a bit late, just got a few boxes of washing up liquid)