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By David Futrelle
I don’t even know how to begin to summarize this very long and very creepy post from the Relationship Advice subreddit from a male boss who seems just a teensy weensy bit too “concerned” about a female employee’s relationship with her boyfriend.
So you’re going to just have to read it for yourself. But here’s a fun game you can play as you make your way through it: See how many paragraphs you can get through before your skin starts to crawl!
![Me [32M] with my coworker/friend [24/F] of one year, how do I let her know she is in an abusive relationship with her bf[24m] (self.relationship_advice) submitted 1 day ago by menumessages So a little background to start off with: I work for a nonprofit where I'm the supervisor of 10 people that work under me. Last fall a young woman, lets call her Jennifer started to work with us through an outside fellowship. Now she's the kind of person that just commands attention as soon as she walks into the room. She is very pretty but just has one of those personalities that everyone likes you know? I had to train her when she first started but was very surprised by how quickly she picked everything up. We do a lot of legal work and it's not easy for people without previous experience to learn so quickly. So this should give you a good idea of the kind of person she is. I immediately took a liking to her because of her work but also how easy she was to talk to. During our training, I would say we became pretty close. So much so that I would text her outside of work about non work related stuff. Also she sends me snapchats a lot, random stuff like shows shes watch like friends do. We even go to happy hour alone sometimes and I think I am the closest to her at work. One time she even had lunch with my mom and I when my mom was visiting town. So she is someone I consider a very good friend and want the best for her. Now here's the problem. About two months into her working with us, I found out she has a boyfriend. TO CLARIFY I DO NOT HAVE ANY ROMANTIC INTERESTS AND DO NOT CARE THAT SHE HAS A BOYFRIEND. I really don't care that she has a boyfriend but felt a little manipulated that she never mentioned him before. I am supervisor, been training her for a few months, we have been talking about a lot of stuff so it just comes off as hiding something. People who work in small offices will know what I'm talking about. It was a little hard for me to trust her after that but I kept it to myself. She was still a great employee and her having a boyfriend did not change anything because apparently she has been with this guy for 5 years now. He doesn't live in the same city and they barely see each other from what I understand. So months go by and everything is going really well. So much so that I was even thinking about recommending her for a promotion. We became even closer during this time. About two weeks ago our parent group is hosted a fundraising gala. I asked Jennifer if she wold like to go with me and she said yes. I always have a great time with her so I was really looking forward to it. The night of the gala I called to see when I should pick her up and she said her boyfriend was in town and he would drop her off so she will just meet me there. This is the first red flag I noticed. Is this guy really that insecure that he can't even let her date take her to this gala? Five years and this insecure? That's a problem. But I just agree and say okay I will meet her there. I get to the gala and start to mingle. She eventually gets there but I don't approach her. Honestly, still pretty bothered by what happened earlier so I wanted her to come to me and apologize. She came up to me and we talked but she never apologized for what she did but I ignored it. Soon we were talking just like before and honestly really enjoying each other's company. Here's when I noticed the second red flag. Jennifer and I were talking to another couple when she excused herself because she had to take a call from her boyfriend. I thought it was pretty rude and she has never done something like this before. A little later she comes back and says that her boyfriend is picking her up and she will leave early. THIRD RED FLAG. She was very much looking forward to this night and suddenly she wants to leave early? You know when you can just tell someone isn't happy in their situation? Yeah I definitely felt it right away. A little while later he gets there and I shit you not, this idiot walked into the gala wearing shorts and a t shirt. I almost wanted to laugh but I didn't want to embarrass him. Jennifer introduces me to him and I make pleasantries but I do make a joke about how must feel a little out of place. He says something like "nah, not really sticking around so not a big deal." Okay? I don't really get what that has to do with anything. My point was that he was at a black tie event dressed like he is going to the gym, I don't care if you're for five minutes or five hours, that's weird. So you can already see he is getting an attitude with me for no reason. I follow up with, "well there are some really important people here" and his response was something like, "I've met senators wearing flip flops, I think I'll be okay." Holy shit, I'm getting angry writing this. But you see what I'm talking about right? He completely rubbed me the wrong way. So anyways, as she is leaving, I tell her to let me know if she gets home okay. It gets around midnight and she hasn't sent me a single message. So I sent her a text and no reply. I sent her another around 1am saying I am worried and just to let me know if she is okay. No reply. I have a hard time sleeping that night because I am genuinely concerned. It's just the kind of person I am. I need to know my friends are okay or it bothers me. I wake up the next morning after getting really bad sleep and she still hasn't responded. This makes me upset because I can see she has uploaded pictures on facebook but yet won't respond to my text. The only explanation is that her boyfriend is the reason. She always responds to me and at most a few hours later. So Sunday night I finally send another message really detailing how upset I was with how she was treating me. Also how I think how much control I feel her boyfriend was exerting over her was really making me lose respect for her. I always thought she is this strong independent woman and suddenly this guy is controlling who she can or can't talk to. Of course I get no reply. Monday, inevitably we see each other at work and she confronts me the first thing in the morning. Before I even get a chance to speak, she says I made her uncomfortable and she wants to just finish her last two months of fellowship without any contact that is not necessary for work. This was about two weeks ago. I was really upset at first but honestly I've done a lot of reading. When you are in an abusive relationship, you stop seeing the world the way it is and only the way the abuser wants you to see. It makes me really sad that I am losing a good friend because her boyfriend has insecurity issues. So a few concerns here. She started dating him 5 years ago meaning she was only 19 and therefore this is pretty much the only adult "relationship" she knows. Also the guy is a lobbyist! She wants to work in public service, help immigrants and refugees but yet dates a lobbyist? Does she really not see the contradiction here? I think over the past five years he has done a good job gaslighting her and it's to the point where it's affecting her relationship with other people and it breaks my heart to see this happen to a good friend. My question is this: what is the best approach to let her know of these concerns I have? How can you make someone who refuses to see reality to actually see what is happening? I have spoken to my mother and we both agree it would be best that she is also there when I approach Jennifer. However, do you think it should just be me alone or it would be better having a motherly figure also there to talk about something this serious? And if we have this conversation and she still refuses to break up with her abusive boyfriend, what are the final steps that I should take? To be frank, I'm not sure I can remain friends with her if she continues to date him. I'm simply not the kind of person who will stick by someone who is willingly ruining their own life. I can't stop thinking about this and haven't gotten any work done today. I really look forward to your suggestions and thank you for all your help. For any of you that are currently in an abusive relationship, get out before it's too late. tl;dr: My pretty good friend is in an abusive relationship but won't notice it. How do I get her to notice for her own good but also the future of our friendship?](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/boss1-e1500062317524.png?ssl=1)
Yipes.
In the movie Election, the main characters periodically break frame for brief “confessionals” in which they explain what they think is going on; it doesn’t take long to figure out that, well, they have no idea what’s really going on, and their little monologues are at once self-serving and completely un-self-aware.
Boss man has outdone all of them here.
H/T — @leyawn
@kypo
Looks like he makes a excuse – for why she does not act how he wants. I think it is not possible that he can be friends with someone. Maybe even with anyone. Looks like he gets so upset when they behave not like he wants.
Also, my other comment missing this quote:
So a few concerns here. She started dating him 5 years ago meaning she was only 19 and therefore this is pretty much the only adult “relationship” she knows
Oh my god this was physically painful to read. Wow. Just…… please tell me the commenters called him out on this massive bullshit.
Luckily, most of the redditors on r/relationships called him out hard enough to get him to post this in multiple versions, all of which had everyone going “Dude, no.”
He kept repeating himself for a while.
Repeating himself for a while, then saying “Well, forget her, I’ll laugh when she comes back to me, having learned her lesson”, or something close to that.
Totally disconnected from the feelings of his
dateharrassed employee.I’m not entirely Reddit savvy, but it appears that he’s deleted the account/screen name he was using.
Unfortunately, that probably means that he just created a new one in hopes of getting his desired response.
Nah, he didn’t delete the name, but he does have a habit of deleting comments when he gets a lot of negative responses. In fact, he left this on AskReddit a couple of days ago:
It’s now deleted after 20 people reminded him that he was the guy creeping on a younger employee.
A lot of people here have said that it’s easy to come down hard on people who make a mistake, more than necessary since everybody has to get in on it with their own version of what you did and why it was terrible, but this dude just refuses to admit he did a single thing wrong.
@Angel
This gon be good…
What makes you think he’s inexperienced? And inexperienced in what? Oh, but let’s not be too hard on the wee nite. He’s too naive to know better *eyes roll into space*
No, he wants to abuse her himself, and he’s salty cos he imagines that someone else got to her first
Important enough for you to mention, apropos of nothing. You ain’t slick, slick…
If treating women as sub sentient numbers is the only way for you not to creep on them, you’ve got way more issues than I’m qualified to tackle
Are… Are you ‘other fish in the see’ing this dude?
*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*
Incorrect
Cos she totally woulda hopped his bone if he was suave, right? If only he’d kept frame or whatever PUA nonsense you’re on about
If none of the rest outed you as a poorly disguised manosphere shithole, the alien talk is a dead giveaway
No misandrist like a misogynist
The lack of trust here was, ofc, all due to timing. Not that he’s an abusive shit entirely undeserving of such trust
Angel, I’m not sure if you’re trolling or just very, very clueless. If it’s the latter, I encourage you to read the whole comment thread and look at all the other shady things he’s done.
Not a bad person? His behavior is textbook abuser. He’s not even in a relationship with Jennifer and he’s trying to control her life. Imagine what he’d be like in a relationship. He’s also trying to gaslight her into believing that her relationship is abusive and he’s trying to enlist other people in his efforts to control her. He’s asking for legal advice on how he could use the court system to declare her mentally incompetent and so she’s forced to break up with her boyfriend.
That’s not a decent person who’s socially inept. That’s abusive. And considering that he’s 32 years old and in a management position where he trains new employees as part of his duties, there’s no reason to believe that he is too socially inept to behave in a creepy way.
You’re also making it seem like he’s not really creepy, he’s just being unfairly perceived as that and you’re making it seem like it’s a mistake on Jennifer’s to see him as anything but harmless and you seem to be implying that it’s unfair of women in general to steer clear of men who violate our boundaries. That’s kind of fucked up. I mean, even redditors realized he’s being a gross stalker and acting completely inappropriately.
Attractive female? I think you meant attractive woman?
In any case, it’s not only conventionally attractive women who are the subject of unwanted attention from men. I got it as an awkward, scrawny and flat chested adolescent. I get it now as a chubby 37 year old. What Jennifer looks like is so besides the point. Again you sound victim blamey, like she’s asking for it by being so pretty. Fucked up again.
Axe, you wiley scamp! I thought I was the first to spot Angel and you beat me to it!
@WWTH
*hides from rage, peers from around corner*
To be fair, deep dives with personal anecdotes and meaningful perspective take a lot longer to type than faffing about with snarky, single line responses 🙂
Is the naive, inexperienced 32-year-old boss like Don Jr., the 39-year-old “kid?”
Women, on the other hand, are completely unable to perceive beauty.
…be worth many bars of gold-pressed Latinum?
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b5/b5c427033abd4d4e55072c70963e032fc84cddb6fad357ceab7be61014d6ec02.jpg
Now this is how I’m going to picture the creepy boss of the year guy
Ew.
I’m going to play Devil’s Avocado for a second and say that, even if you think that the boyfriend is a bit of a neanderthal for turning up to a black-tie event in shorts and a tee (unless he was circling the block the whole time, which he probably way), that’s simply indicative of a certain lack of either (a) social skills or (b) giving a damn what other people think. It doesn’t make him some sort of controlling, manipulative, creepy monster (you know… like the boss actually is).
SpleenyBadger – there’s textual evidence supporting (b). The long distance boyfriend was challenged by creeper boss, and responded coolly, “I’ve met senators in my flip-flops, this won’t be a problem.” That exact attitude was part of what C.B. found objectionable, it appears.
@Angel
Comments Policy, Friendjamen.
As someone who is mentally suffering, quite a lot in fact, I’d thank ye kindly to think about this kind of thing before you post it.
Dear fellow bosses,
What the fuck is wrong with you? You set the bar so low for me, I’d need an excavator to find it. How hard is it not to creep on your employees?
Boyfriend-dude wasn’t signalling appropriate deference to noble protagonist boss-man. Was specifically signalling dismissal – this is a signal used to suggest equality between social participants. This stimulates threat assessment in both parties when used outside of an established social context, with boyfriend dude having undertaken threat assessment first while (or before) formulating the signal. The signal reception stimulates threat assessment in boss-man. Both parties experience an increase in stress hormones and autonomic arousal from the interaction.
Chances are high that boss-man has a very easily stimulated threat assessment system. It’s what’s motivating his drive to “protect,” which is in evidence throughout his description of the story. Suggests that his D(def) is historically poorly rewarded. Gosh, I wonder why.
why no i am not a robot disguised as a human. i don’t know where you would ever get that impression.
I know there are rules against internet psychoanalysis, and I’m not sure if this sort applies. I’m not suggesting that he’s got some sort of psychological problem or mental illness! He’s got perfectly normal brain hardware. Perfectly normal brain hardware can fail in so many gloriously awful ways. This is one.
@Sailor LeadDragonite
Hugs if you want them.
Scildfreja – your analysis of social dynamics among certain primates seems quite plausible.
So much of routine human interaction is intended to enable us to engage safely with other humans outside our Dunbar’s number limit, it can be disturbing when it breaks down (or is broken down).
Thank you! Reading my own stuff there though I made a mistake, and you pointed it out – the increase in stress and autonomic response has nothing to do with the fact that they don’t know one another. That happens to us whenever someone is dismissive of our signalled status. The same would happen if they knew one another and boss-man had habitually projected a “protective” signal as he was doing.
I’m really not sure how much of our social structure has come about in order to deal with outsiders; I think the majority of it is for dealing with insiders. The same mechanisms are co-opted in external threat assessment, I think. I’m way out of my wheelhouse, though, so this is all just blabber.
Speaking of horrible bosses:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/the-internet-is-mad-we-work-too-hard-at-barstool-sports/
I like all the bragging at how successful the site is. Maybe it is successful, but I’ve never heard of it.