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By David Futrelle
I don’t even know how to begin to summarize this very long and very creepy post from the Relationship Advice subreddit from a male boss who seems just a teensy weensy bit too “concerned” about a female employee’s relationship with her boyfriend.
So you’re going to just have to read it for yourself. But here’s a fun game you can play as you make your way through it: See how many paragraphs you can get through before your skin starts to crawl!
![Me [32M] with my coworker/friend [24/F] of one year, how do I let her know she is in an abusive relationship with her bf[24m] (self.relationship_advice) submitted 1 day ago by menumessages So a little background to start off with: I work for a nonprofit where I'm the supervisor of 10 people that work under me. Last fall a young woman, lets call her Jennifer started to work with us through an outside fellowship. Now she's the kind of person that just commands attention as soon as she walks into the room. She is very pretty but just has one of those personalities that everyone likes you know? I had to train her when she first started but was very surprised by how quickly she picked everything up. We do a lot of legal work and it's not easy for people without previous experience to learn so quickly. So this should give you a good idea of the kind of person she is. I immediately took a liking to her because of her work but also how easy she was to talk to. During our training, I would say we became pretty close. So much so that I would text her outside of work about non work related stuff. Also she sends me snapchats a lot, random stuff like shows shes watch like friends do. We even go to happy hour alone sometimes and I think I am the closest to her at work. One time she even had lunch with my mom and I when my mom was visiting town. So she is someone I consider a very good friend and want the best for her. Now here's the problem. About two months into her working with us, I found out she has a boyfriend. TO CLARIFY I DO NOT HAVE ANY ROMANTIC INTERESTS AND DO NOT CARE THAT SHE HAS A BOYFRIEND. I really don't care that she has a boyfriend but felt a little manipulated that she never mentioned him before. I am supervisor, been training her for a few months, we have been talking about a lot of stuff so it just comes off as hiding something. People who work in small offices will know what I'm talking about. It was a little hard for me to trust her after that but I kept it to myself. She was still a great employee and her having a boyfriend did not change anything because apparently she has been with this guy for 5 years now. He doesn't live in the same city and they barely see each other from what I understand. So months go by and everything is going really well. So much so that I was even thinking about recommending her for a promotion. We became even closer during this time. About two weeks ago our parent group is hosted a fundraising gala. I asked Jennifer if she wold like to go with me and she said yes. I always have a great time with her so I was really looking forward to it. The night of the gala I called to see when I should pick her up and she said her boyfriend was in town and he would drop her off so she will just meet me there. This is the first red flag I noticed. Is this guy really that insecure that he can't even let her date take her to this gala? Five years and this insecure? That's a problem. But I just agree and say okay I will meet her there. I get to the gala and start to mingle. She eventually gets there but I don't approach her. Honestly, still pretty bothered by what happened earlier so I wanted her to come to me and apologize. She came up to me and we talked but she never apologized for what she did but I ignored it. Soon we were talking just like before and honestly really enjoying each other's company. Here's when I noticed the second red flag. Jennifer and I were talking to another couple when she excused herself because she had to take a call from her boyfriend. I thought it was pretty rude and she has never done something like this before. A little later she comes back and says that her boyfriend is picking her up and she will leave early. THIRD RED FLAG. She was very much looking forward to this night and suddenly she wants to leave early? You know when you can just tell someone isn't happy in their situation? Yeah I definitely felt it right away. A little while later he gets there and I shit you not, this idiot walked into the gala wearing shorts and a t shirt. I almost wanted to laugh but I didn't want to embarrass him. Jennifer introduces me to him and I make pleasantries but I do make a joke about how must feel a little out of place. He says something like "nah, not really sticking around so not a big deal." Okay? I don't really get what that has to do with anything. My point was that he was at a black tie event dressed like he is going to the gym, I don't care if you're for five minutes or five hours, that's weird. So you can already see he is getting an attitude with me for no reason. I follow up with, "well there are some really important people here" and his response was something like, "I've met senators wearing flip flops, I think I'll be okay." Holy shit, I'm getting angry writing this. But you see what I'm talking about right? He completely rubbed me the wrong way. So anyways, as she is leaving, I tell her to let me know if she gets home okay. It gets around midnight and she hasn't sent me a single message. So I sent her a text and no reply. I sent her another around 1am saying I am worried and just to let me know if she is okay. No reply. I have a hard time sleeping that night because I am genuinely concerned. It's just the kind of person I am. I need to know my friends are okay or it bothers me. I wake up the next morning after getting really bad sleep and she still hasn't responded. This makes me upset because I can see she has uploaded pictures on facebook but yet won't respond to my text. The only explanation is that her boyfriend is the reason. She always responds to me and at most a few hours later. So Sunday night I finally send another message really detailing how upset I was with how she was treating me. Also how I think how much control I feel her boyfriend was exerting over her was really making me lose respect for her. I always thought she is this strong independent woman and suddenly this guy is controlling who she can or can't talk to. Of course I get no reply. Monday, inevitably we see each other at work and she confronts me the first thing in the morning. Before I even get a chance to speak, she says I made her uncomfortable and she wants to just finish her last two months of fellowship without any contact that is not necessary for work. This was about two weeks ago. I was really upset at first but honestly I've done a lot of reading. When you are in an abusive relationship, you stop seeing the world the way it is and only the way the abuser wants you to see. It makes me really sad that I am losing a good friend because her boyfriend has insecurity issues. So a few concerns here. She started dating him 5 years ago meaning she was only 19 and therefore this is pretty much the only adult "relationship" she knows. Also the guy is a lobbyist! She wants to work in public service, help immigrants and refugees but yet dates a lobbyist? Does she really not see the contradiction here? I think over the past five years he has done a good job gaslighting her and it's to the point where it's affecting her relationship with other people and it breaks my heart to see this happen to a good friend. My question is this: what is the best approach to let her know of these concerns I have? How can you make someone who refuses to see reality to actually see what is happening? I have spoken to my mother and we both agree it would be best that she is also there when I approach Jennifer. However, do you think it should just be me alone or it would be better having a motherly figure also there to talk about something this serious? And if we have this conversation and she still refuses to break up with her abusive boyfriend, what are the final steps that I should take? To be frank, I'm not sure I can remain friends with her if she continues to date him. I'm simply not the kind of person who will stick by someone who is willingly ruining their own life. I can't stop thinking about this and haven't gotten any work done today. I really look forward to your suggestions and thank you for all your help. For any of you that are currently in an abusive relationship, get out before it's too late. tl;dr: My pretty good friend is in an abusive relationship but won't notice it. How do I get her to notice for her own good but also the future of our friendship?](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/boss1-e1500062317524.png?ssl=1)
Yipes.
In the movie Election, the main characters periodically break frame for brief “confessionals” in which they explain what they think is going on; it doesn’t take long to figure out that, well, they have no idea what’s really going on, and their little monologues are at once self-serving and completely un-self-aware.
Boss man has outdone all of them here.
H/T — @leyawn
Well obviously, SFHC. You said “for such things as” instead of “to people who hold such positions as.” You’re just BEGGING to be misinterpreted!
@Axecalibur
You may side-eye it as you wish, however consider the following examples:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/03/13/judge-tosses-nestle-suit-over-child-slavery-in-africa/#7c40d87628d1
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/feb/01/nestle-slavery-thailand-fighting-child-labour-lawsuit-ivory-coast
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-peru-4-deaths-in-limas-recent-fire-denounced-as-modern-slavery-111912/
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/02/child-labour-on-nestle-farms-chocolate-giants-problems-continue
That’s just from a quick google search. Having grown up in a country that allows such conditions to persist and which has no qualms about children working like this, I do not think it’s an exaggeration.
@Jenora Feuer: This version. It’s like D&D but without any of the fun RP elements, haha. We put them in anyway! It’s just silly, and doesn’t need anyone to spend too much time prepping a campaign.
I also really like Betrayal, but one thing to be aware of when you play it… If one of the group that you are playing with doesn’t like to be targeted as ‘the bad person’, maybe let them know beforehand that this could happen.
One of my friends really doesn’t like to suddenly have everyone else gang up om them. Also, some of the scenarios seem really unbalanced, either for the Betrayer or for the rest of the players, so sometimes it is a little rough to play.
But I still really love the exploration mechanic! And getting the items! And the story! It’s really cool!
Has anyone recommended Dead of Winter yet? Here’s how to play. Don’t worry, you only need to watch it once. UNLESS YOU ARE THE OWNER, then you must watch it every time you bring someone in.
The game seems really complicated, but it actually plays really well. It also has the betrayer mechanic that someone (EJ?) likes. Or you can just not have that, and have it be co-op, which is my preference. Either or!
It’s a very fun game, and I’m not a huge fan of zombies. There are lots of ladies, and there are also some not-white people. Not a lot, but a few.
The art is really nice too.
There’s a big difference between saying that capitalism facilitates/accepts/encourages slavery (choose your preferred term) and saying that it is a system of slavery.
One is true, and the other minimizes the plight of actual slaves by comparing them with McDonald’s workers.
We have a house rule that you’re allowed to decline being the betrayer, especially if it’s a new player.
@Rhuu:
I played Dead of Winter at a board games party. We had to abandon the game partway through because it was just taking too long, but I really enjoyed what I saw of it. The exposure mechanic is downright inspired.
If you’re into long, complex boardgames of the sort that used to be referred to as “Ameritrash”, then may I recommend Chaos in the Old World? It manages asymmetric balance almost perfectly, which is a difficult feat in game design, and makes each of the four factions really characterful and fun.
@Policy of Madnes
Right, I just re-read that. It does sound like nonsense. Point granted.
Yeah, my first sentence is problematic and detrimental to the rest of the post. Which is that capitalism has allowed for labor in near slave-like or actual slave conditions to still exist in third world countries, as a means to preserving the quality of life in first world countries which greatly benefit from the cheap labor.
@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Thanks for clearing things up. Also:
I’m not trying to compare Brocialists to neoliberals. From my understanding, the former are [usually] White males who mistakenly believe that socialism will magically make racism, misogyny, islamophobia, transphobia, etc magically disappear, and who feel the need to belittle anyone who does not adhere to this magic vision.
Neoliberals are either misguided or deceitful fools who preach that they are socially liberal but their hard stance on Free Market economics actually results in the oppression of women and minorities, and the preservation of White supremacy.
That lies in the gap between idealized or academic free-market capitalism (which has a certain host of problems) and laissez-faire capitalism, in which the “perfect information” market requirement is not met. Few people in the US would buy slave-made goods, but they don’t know the goods are made by slaves because this is made opaque by the sellers and the consumers don’t care enough to research it. In other words, the consumers don’t have the perfect information about the goods that free-market capitalism assumes they do.
Yeah, after my morning
covfefecoffee, I’ve decided that he really was just using me as a randomly-chosen jumping-off point for his hobby horse. I could’ve posted a five-page dissertation on my favourite colour for all it matters.It’s green, for the record.
(Also, now that I’ve caffeined my head on straight, I need to point and laugh at him mansplaining objectivism to me. The one who was raised by objectivists. White men, everybody! *sarcastic applause*)
@Policy of Madness
I disagree with that perspective considering that awareness campaigns in regard to labor conditions in third world countries are constant. At this point pretty much everyone is aware of what goes on in Foxconn factories at China. Likewise, there was a massive campaign last Halloween against Nestlé for using slave child labor to harvest cacao seeds. Their profits hardly dropped.
And it’s hard to see why, taking into consideration that Nestlé does own the most popular chocolate brands in the world market. Monopolies and control of the media make it almost impossible for boycotts to succeed.
You vastly overestimate the degree to which consumers pay attention. I guarantee that if every clothing item was required to have a verified “Slave-made” or “Free-made” tag on it, the slave-made items would have piss-poor sales. Once it is in people’s faces, they make choices based on their preferences, and the preference in the US today is that slavery is bad (can’t speak for anywhere else).
@SFHC
1- I didn’t even bring up objectivism.
2- I’m Hispanic, not White.
@ POM
How much of that do you think is down to genuine ignorance and how much to just turning a blind eye? I guess people can be forgiven when they buy three t-shirts for a fiver for not considering how little must be left over for labour after the cost of raw materials, transportation, and profit for the store. But are people unaware of what’s really going on? The idea of five year olds in sweatshops is a joke in the Simpsons.
Is it just that sense of detachment that it’s happening far away? Like how we can read about a child dying for lack of fresh water; then flush enough potable water for an entire family every time we take a piss?
I kid myself I’d be one of the ones walking away from Omelas; but I know I’m just as guilty as anyone.
ETA: Ah, ninja’d and answered, cheers.
a) That’s libertarians.
b) No actual person I’ve ever seen that term applied to has even remotely fit that description.
@PoM
Indeed. Sharecropping wasn’t too much better than the system what came before it. But! Try telling a freedman that it’s the same thing. That the blood, sweat, tears, families, and lives spent getting to that point were wasted. Slavery exists today, exploited, aided, and abetted by capitalist systems. But they’re not the same thing. Hundreds of years of fight and progress means my employer doesn’t hold deed to my life as property. I tend to find that difference a crucial one
See this shit everywhere in ‘lefter than thou’ circles. Which speaks to the lack of intersectionality in said circles. The same people who said Clinton and Trump would be exactly the same. But I’m a neolib counterrevolutionary for being skeptical of such claims. Gets tiring…
@Alan
I’m not saying who is responsible for the ignorance. To some degree the sellers make this information opaque, but in many cases the information does exist out there and people just don’t bother to check. They lack perfect information and some of that is on the consumer, not on the seller. It’s the lack of perfect information that matters here, not who is responsible for it.
Ultimately one solution would be for government to mandate that all sellers mark their items as made by slaves or by free people and that this is verified in some way. But that isn’t laissez-faire.
A lot of the ills ascribed to capitalism are actually problems of laissez-faire capitalism, which is frustrating to me because it’s not like perfect capitalism would be problem-free or anything. You don’t have to say it kicks kittens to make it look bad; it would look bad anyway.
@Alan
My problem is I know very few companies which advertise paying their workers well, so I don’t have many ethical options.
(Missed further edit window)
I really see your point about explicit labelling. You’ve now got me thinking about the language. If you label something as say ‘ethically produced’ it seems to get lumped into something ‘above and beyond the call’. Like it’s an extra feature rather than a minimum standard. It’s like the exploitation manufacturing is the ‘overton’ analogous middle ground.
It’s funny how we (at least in Britain) seem more bothered about how our food animals are treated when it comes to labeling than kids and adults in far away countries.
You’ve got me pondering.
@Katz
Neoliberals and libertarians are near analogous with the difference that “libertarians” is mostly used in the US. In Latin America libertarians are more commonly referred to as neoliberals. If I’m not mistaken Chomsky was responsible for popularizing the term. Even though now purist leftist use it to throw it at anyone who does not wholly buy into their garbage.
Also, what do you mean they don’t fit that description? Or did I word it wrongly?
What I meant is libertarians/neoliberals (choose whichever term you usually apply) preach socially liberal stances (euthanasia, opposition to war, decriminalization of weed, etc).
Problem being that they place the Free Market above everything. Thus what ends up happening is the preferences of the group which holds institutional power (White males) will completely impose itself in the detriment of other groups (anyone not male or White).
@ kupo
Oh yeah, I’m certainly not going to go all holier than thou about it. It’s ok for me to say I won’t shop at Primark, I’m not trying to clothe ever growing kids on bare subsistence level income. It’s a bit like the ‘you should only eat fresh not processed food’ thing. That’s great if you don’t live in a food desert and you’ve got time to cook because you’re not knackered after pulling a double shift.
Like POM says, it’s a systematic problem, not something down to individual ‘end users’.
Can I go back to games really fast?
Does anyone here like Agricola or really silly stuff like Guillotine or Gloom?
@Skye: I really like Gloom! I love telling the story! I think I need to pick up the expansions for my room mate.
I also like Texas Zombies a lot, though we sort of play our own version of it without using teams. I also need to make about a hundred more item cards! There just aren’t enough. It’s another story telling game.
I haven’t played Agricola yet, but I hear it’s really good?
@Skye
Oh, I forgot about Guillotine. Used to play that with my team back in 1998. Good times, lovely sangria. 😀
Agricola! Gloom! yaaaaay! Much fun.
I just love games, really. The social lubricant that they provide is exactly what I need in life.
As for the “neoliberal/libertarian” thing, I’ve met and heard from self-described neoliberals who are incredibly socially conservative, and believe that the only thing keeping progressives around at all is government intervention. The “liberal”/”neoliberal” terms have become almost useless outside of context these days.
@kupo, Texas zombies looks really interesting (actually a lot of the games linked here look interesting…Dead of Winter, Skulls, etc…totally need to have another game day w/friends)
@Scildfreja,
Definitely agree