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By David Futrelle
I don’t even know how to begin to summarize this very long and very creepy post from the Relationship Advice subreddit from a male boss who seems just a teensy weensy bit too “concerned” about a female employee’s relationship with her boyfriend.
So you’re going to just have to read it for yourself. But here’s a fun game you can play as you make your way through it: See how many paragraphs you can get through before your skin starts to crawl!
![Me [32M] with my coworker/friend [24/F] of one year, how do I let her know she is in an abusive relationship with her bf[24m] (self.relationship_advice) submitted 1 day ago by menumessages So a little background to start off with: I work for a nonprofit where I'm the supervisor of 10 people that work under me. Last fall a young woman, lets call her Jennifer started to work with us through an outside fellowship. Now she's the kind of person that just commands attention as soon as she walks into the room. She is very pretty but just has one of those personalities that everyone likes you know? I had to train her when she first started but was very surprised by how quickly she picked everything up. We do a lot of legal work and it's not easy for people without previous experience to learn so quickly. So this should give you a good idea of the kind of person she is. I immediately took a liking to her because of her work but also how easy she was to talk to. During our training, I would say we became pretty close. So much so that I would text her outside of work about non work related stuff. Also she sends me snapchats a lot, random stuff like shows shes watch like friends do. We even go to happy hour alone sometimes and I think I am the closest to her at work. One time she even had lunch with my mom and I when my mom was visiting town. So she is someone I consider a very good friend and want the best for her. Now here's the problem. About two months into her working with us, I found out she has a boyfriend. TO CLARIFY I DO NOT HAVE ANY ROMANTIC INTERESTS AND DO NOT CARE THAT SHE HAS A BOYFRIEND. I really don't care that she has a boyfriend but felt a little manipulated that she never mentioned him before. I am supervisor, been training her for a few months, we have been talking about a lot of stuff so it just comes off as hiding something. People who work in small offices will know what I'm talking about. It was a little hard for me to trust her after that but I kept it to myself. She was still a great employee and her having a boyfriend did not change anything because apparently she has been with this guy for 5 years now. He doesn't live in the same city and they barely see each other from what I understand. So months go by and everything is going really well. So much so that I was even thinking about recommending her for a promotion. We became even closer during this time. About two weeks ago our parent group is hosted a fundraising gala. I asked Jennifer if she wold like to go with me and she said yes. I always have a great time with her so I was really looking forward to it. The night of the gala I called to see when I should pick her up and she said her boyfriend was in town and he would drop her off so she will just meet me there. This is the first red flag I noticed. Is this guy really that insecure that he can't even let her date take her to this gala? Five years and this insecure? That's a problem. But I just agree and say okay I will meet her there. I get to the gala and start to mingle. She eventually gets there but I don't approach her. Honestly, still pretty bothered by what happened earlier so I wanted her to come to me and apologize. She came up to me and we talked but she never apologized for what she did but I ignored it. Soon we were talking just like before and honestly really enjoying each other's company. Here's when I noticed the second red flag. Jennifer and I were talking to another couple when she excused herself because she had to take a call from her boyfriend. I thought it was pretty rude and she has never done something like this before. A little later she comes back and says that her boyfriend is picking her up and she will leave early. THIRD RED FLAG. She was very much looking forward to this night and suddenly she wants to leave early? You know when you can just tell someone isn't happy in their situation? Yeah I definitely felt it right away. A little while later he gets there and I shit you not, this idiot walked into the gala wearing shorts and a t shirt. I almost wanted to laugh but I didn't want to embarrass him. Jennifer introduces me to him and I make pleasantries but I do make a joke about how must feel a little out of place. He says something like "nah, not really sticking around so not a big deal." Okay? I don't really get what that has to do with anything. My point was that he was at a black tie event dressed like he is going to the gym, I don't care if you're for five minutes or five hours, that's weird. So you can already see he is getting an attitude with me for no reason. I follow up with, "well there are some really important people here" and his response was something like, "I've met senators wearing flip flops, I think I'll be okay." Holy shit, I'm getting angry writing this. But you see what I'm talking about right? He completely rubbed me the wrong way. So anyways, as she is leaving, I tell her to let me know if she gets home okay. It gets around midnight and she hasn't sent me a single message. So I sent her a text and no reply. I sent her another around 1am saying I am worried and just to let me know if she is okay. No reply. I have a hard time sleeping that night because I am genuinely concerned. It's just the kind of person I am. I need to know my friends are okay or it bothers me. I wake up the next morning after getting really bad sleep and she still hasn't responded. This makes me upset because I can see she has uploaded pictures on facebook but yet won't respond to my text. The only explanation is that her boyfriend is the reason. She always responds to me and at most a few hours later. So Sunday night I finally send another message really detailing how upset I was with how she was treating me. Also how I think how much control I feel her boyfriend was exerting over her was really making me lose respect for her. I always thought she is this strong independent woman and suddenly this guy is controlling who she can or can't talk to. Of course I get no reply. Monday, inevitably we see each other at work and she confronts me the first thing in the morning. Before I even get a chance to speak, she says I made her uncomfortable and she wants to just finish her last two months of fellowship without any contact that is not necessary for work. This was about two weeks ago. I was really upset at first but honestly I've done a lot of reading. When you are in an abusive relationship, you stop seeing the world the way it is and only the way the abuser wants you to see. It makes me really sad that I am losing a good friend because her boyfriend has insecurity issues. So a few concerns here. She started dating him 5 years ago meaning she was only 19 and therefore this is pretty much the only adult "relationship" she knows. Also the guy is a lobbyist! She wants to work in public service, help immigrants and refugees but yet dates a lobbyist? Does she really not see the contradiction here? I think over the past five years he has done a good job gaslighting her and it's to the point where it's affecting her relationship with other people and it breaks my heart to see this happen to a good friend. My question is this: what is the best approach to let her know of these concerns I have? How can you make someone who refuses to see reality to actually see what is happening? I have spoken to my mother and we both agree it would be best that she is also there when I approach Jennifer. However, do you think it should just be me alone or it would be better having a motherly figure also there to talk about something this serious? And if we have this conversation and she still refuses to break up with her abusive boyfriend, what are the final steps that I should take? To be frank, I'm not sure I can remain friends with her if she continues to date him. I'm simply not the kind of person who will stick by someone who is willingly ruining their own life. I can't stop thinking about this and haven't gotten any work done today. I really look forward to your suggestions and thank you for all your help. For any of you that are currently in an abusive relationship, get out before it's too late. tl;dr: My pretty good friend is in an abusive relationship but won't notice it. How do I get her to notice for her own good but also the future of our friendship?](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/boss1-e1500062317524.png?ssl=1)
Yipes.
In the movie Election, the main characters periodically break frame for brief “confessionals” in which they explain what they think is going on; it doesn’t take long to figure out that, well, they have no idea what’s really going on, and their little monologues are at once self-serving and completely un-self-aware.
Boss man has outdone all of them here.
H/T — @leyawn
@Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Wait a minute.. those gold curls, that pony tail, those wing collars, that’s Giorno Giovanna!
Wow, this thread started up again….and now the conversation is about boardgames.
I don’t suppose anyone will care about the old “hex map and cardboard counter” historical wargames? (Back in the ’70s and ’80s with SPI, Avalon Hill, etc. many weren’t that well researched I think but some were OK.
By the way, hello again everyone. Been away getting ready to teach my history class this fall.
As for meeting potential significant others, in my single days I never “hit on” anyone in person … didn’t seem right [by the way, I dislike that colloquialism “to hit on”. I don’t like the violent reference of hit].
I made a profile on a dating site and put up my handsomest picture (no, I’m not modest ;)) and wrote the most honest and forthright profile I could.
Then one day she who is now Ms. Pavlov’s House saw my profile and said my photo was handsome (yay!) and that I sounded fascinating. Her pictures captured her beauty 100% and I loved LOVED her courageous assertiveness in messaging me first. Then she was so intelligent and soulful in her messages. So we met and went to a yoga class together (which is an amazing first date idea) and then a museum….and then….
🙂
My husband’s a big fan! We have Flat Top and various others in the closet.
By the way, does anybody who knows more about Twitter than me know how to mute a keyword from only one person? Either through the official muting thing or through a plugin, whatever does the job.
@Scented Hard Fucking Chairs and Axelcalibur
Absurd accusations thrown to people you don’t like aside (which DOES happen a lot in political bouts) neoliberalism isn’t so much associated with hard right conservatism. It is mostly defined by economic policy. In essence it’s more of the old “laissez-faire” style capitalism. Neoliberalism is more closely associated with libertarianism or classic liberals (people who follow Austrian economics).
Granted it shouldn’t be thrown to everybody you don’t like, without second thought, because it devalues the word and its meaning; but neoliberal policies are hardly something to scoff at.
I know, but I’m not seeing how it’s not hard-right (economic) conservatism.
@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
I’m not contesting it being conservative economics. Thing is conservatism can be defined by two factors at the very least: free market economics and social conservatism. Conservatives like the free market but are also big regarding taking an active role in preserving tradition and [racist and misogynist] cultural norms.
Neoliberals are more socially liberal but free market fanatics, nevertheless. That would be the only difference between them both. Neoliberals almost exclusively allign with conservatives because of free market policies.
Ran out the edit timer: I think you might’ve missed our point; we’re talking about the recent trend of people hurling the word around for such things as “Health care is one of the most important issues in the country, but we won’t be able to get anywhere on it until Trump, McConnell and Ryan are out of power, which means dealing with Trump-Russia ASAP,” “I agree that America needs a stronger welfare system, but it also needs a stronger focus on women’s, PoC’s and LGBT+ rights, so I prefer Hillary’s intersectionality over Bernie’s brogressivism” and “You know that Hillary won the popular vote, right?” Those are all real examples.
Or am I just being mansplained to.
I’ve seen modern liberalism described as “the belief that gay people should have an equal right to trade on the free market.”
This can also be rendered more bleakly, as “the belief that gay people should have an equal right to starve under an overpass.”
(Full disclosure: I identify as liberal.)
@Katz
That’s cool! Flat Top is a real classic (never played it but have seen it, and know it’s a classic). The ones I loved were a series of World War II operational-level games called “Europa”; one for each major campaign in the war. You were supposed to be able to link them all together but the publisher never finished the series
These are not two separate things. These are the same thing. “Free market economics” (which is not actually what economic conservatives want, it’s only what they say they want) serves to maintain the social order. It’s why when people say they are fiscally conservative but socially liberal, they are telling a lie that comes from not really thinking their economic policies all the way through.
@pom
Agreed. The creed of capitalism in the USA, is the outcome of Dutch Calvinist Protestantism, and their idea of the work ethic. The two can’t be excised from one another.
POM beat me to it.
I’m pretty much done with letting people get away with describing themselves as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Until the “free market” stops being white supremacist and male supremacist (spoiler alert: it won’t) fiscal conservatism is inherently socially conservative.
@ Scented Hard Fucking Chairs
I’m having somewhat of a hard time understanding the point you’re trying to make taken into account the quotations in this paragraph. Correct me if I’m wrong but my perception from what you’re trying to say is that you dislike how people hurl the word towards anyone who will not agree with them in economic matters, yet are shortsighted and do not agree on the approach towards LGBT, POC and women rights, is that it?
Granted that is a big concern and brocialists are short-sighted for thinking that brocialism alone will automatically advance the rights of minorities. That isn’t the case, as pretty much everyone not White and male knows. The reason identity politics separated from socialism is because socialism refused to include oppressed groups into the narrative in the first place. We are in agreement on that.
However, just as there are brocialists, there are neoliberals among the democrats. People who insist on defending intersectionality and favor passing anti-discrimination laws and programs for women and minorities, and yet are as pro-capitalist as they come.
@Policy of Madness
Granted. That is the problem I have with libertarians, which I find to be closer to fascism than even conservatives. The very idea that “liberty” and “MUH FREEDOM” will somehow advance the rights of minorities when White male christians hold all the institutional power in the US is absolutely ludicrous.
Case in point: the Emancipation Proclamation was passed in 1863 and yet the “Free Market” didn’t punish any of the racist businesses and landlords who denied service and goods to African Americans. No, the Civil Rights Act had to be passed over a hundred year later for African Americans to somehow reach a semblance of equality.
I’m in entire agreement with you that their position is entirely disingenuous but I find the need to distinguish between both conservatives and libertarians/neoliberals/classic liberals because the latter are wolves in sheeps clothing. They surprisingly enjoy more acceptance and tolerance than the former precisely because their platform is entirely disingenuous towards their implied goal: White male supremacy.
@Virgin Mary
Capitalism in and of itself is nothing more than a modern system of slavery. Even the term “laissez faire, laissez passer” can be traced back to Vincent De Gourdnay, as he tried to justify non-intervention of the government during the Translatlantic Slave Trade.
America never abolished slavery, it just legalized it through the 13th amendment (forced labor in prison) and also concealed it abroad, where they maintained it through colonialism and imperialism. American capitalism is only allowed to exist in all its lavishness thanks to the cheap labor in near-slave, or actual slave-like, conditions in third world countries. It’s kind of why the US has been so active in the past two centuries overthrowing socialist leaders around the world, and installing or otherwise backing dictators. The latest example being Honduras.
Capitalism is inherently racist.
Ummmmmm …
…
Is this the blog equivalent of one of those hidden camera prank shows?
Or do I have to break out the fuckspleening flash cards?
THAT IS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF MY POINT, YOU IDIOT. My problem is with people who hurl the word towards anyone who DOES agree with them on economic matters BUT ALSO cares about Trump-Russia and/or doesn’t worship Bernie as a god. Like I said the first bloody time. Read for comprehension, not for whatever gives you a platform to rant about your irrelevant hobby horses.
Seriously, is anybody else having trouble with my wording, or is this guy just really dumb/doing it on purpose to annoy me?
@Rhuu:
Which HeroQuest? There have been at least a couple of games using that name. (There was a trademark dispute between the RuneQuest/Hero Wars/Glorantha people and an older board game over that name.)
@kupo:
Almost worked, got the fixed-width font, but need to put in rather than spaces at the front of the lines.
@Alan:
Well, Credo is much more of a card game than a board game. There is a small board to lay out the tableau where you build the Creed, but the original game was all just thin cardboard cards you had to manually cut apart the first time you wanted to play. It was one of those games released in a Zip-loc bag.
It also suffers from one of those situations where all the people playtesting knew how the game worked, so there are a couple of rules that aren’t necessarily clear to everybody else.
@EJ:
A friend of mine has the same complaint about Pandemic, in that it can often end up with one person running it and everybody else along for the ride. It definitely depends on who you’re playing with, but it can make Pandemic a bit problematic for pick-up games where some people know the game and some don’t.
Yeah, Betrayal at the House on the Hill is fun, and it’s good that they went to some effort to maintain replayability by having so many different possible end-game scenarios. Which also means that expansion packs for the game should be easy to slot in.
@Scented Hard Fucking Chairs
Okay listen here asshole it’s not my fault you worded it in a difficult to understand manner. Literally what you wrote:
How the fuck am I supposed to take away from that that people are using that word to define people who do not worship Bernie as a god??? Nowhere in that paragraph do you establish a clear connection in between the use of the word and the quotes you randomly threw around.
It’s not like you explicitly said “we’re talking about the recent trend of people hurling the word around to people who hold such positions as”
The way in which you worded it makes it confusing and it’s certainly not my fault I’m having trouble understanding it when you phrased it that way. Which is why I fucking asked in a polite fucking manner whether I had gotten it right and why I said I had trouble understanding. English is not my first fucking language, it’s actually my third, I hardly see how not understanding something right off the bat makes me dumb.
It’s not just you. As with most people who use the word “neoliberal,” it essentially doesn’t matter what actual words you say to him.
@SFHC + Diego
O.o Uh huh… Dip!
@PoM + Diego
Yeah, I’m side eying that shit hard. Few people around here are gonna sing the praises of capitalism, but anyone who says it’s just like literal slavery needs some fuckin learnin…
<3 Diego, SFHC,
You're both using some pretty dense paragraphs and big words right now. And you're both talking well past each other. I suspect that it's a simple misunderstanding of intent here. As far as I can tell you both agree on the main points, but are getting caught up in different definitions for words. Yaay, semantics.
Diego, your division of “Brocialists” from “Neoliberals” isn’t clearly defined (or, more properly, the division you’re using may not be a common one); that might be a source of the problem.
You’re also using the proper, specific form of “neoliberal”, whereas its current use in common discourse is quickly shifting. This isn’t a mistake or anything wrong on your part, but it’s probably a source of confusion.
Language is fun!