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Alt-right fractures as former allies accuse leaders of sexually exploiting teen boys

Matt Forney: The alt-right is “aiding and abetting sodomites who groom teenage boys”

By David Futrelle

White supremacist blogger Matt Forney certainly picked a dramatic way to announce he would no longer be affiliating with the alt-right. In a Facebook posting several days ago, which he subsequently deleted, Forney declared that the internet-enabled fascist movement had become “a coven for homosexual pedophiles.”

Repeating accusations from a podcast that he said had been proven “100 percent true,” Forney charged that self-declared “fashy faggots” associated with the website The Right Stuff were

using … pool parties (IRL meetups) to groom teenage boys into sleeping with them, which [one alt-rightist named] Ghoul did to a 17-year old … at the Chicago pool party. Oh, and Ghoul had been grooming this poor kid since he was 15. 

Forney said that others associated with The Right Stuff “knew what Ghoul was doing but didn’t say or do anything.”

Meanwhile, Lucian B. Wintrich of the far-right Gateway Pundit blog has been using Twitter to publicly question alt-right celebrity Richard Spencer about his alleged “degeneracy” — seemingly basing his “reporting” on DMs from second-hand anonymous sources.

In other tweets Wintrich gives up the pretense that he is practicing journalism entirely:

It’s worth pointing out that the “evidence” here is vague and second-hand, and that even if these charges are true it’s not clear that the accused have broken any laws. We don’t know the ages of the “younger men” referred to by Wintrich’s source. As for the “pool party” referred to by Forney, the age of consent in Illinois is 17, so Ghoul’s alleged sexual encounter would have been legal — if skeezy as hell.

It’s clear that both Wintrich and Forney expect others on the far-right to be at least as outraged by the idea that prominent alt-rightists have been having gay sex as by the possibility that they have committed statutory rape. In his deleted Facebook post, Forney repeatedly refers to allegedly gay alt-righists as “sodomites” and “homos,” and indignantly complains that

the people who freaked out about me living in the Phillipines and sleeping with non-white women were aiding and abetting sodomites who groomed teenage boys into sex. They’re worse than the left. …

If the alt-right is unwilling to expose, denounce, and cast out the homosexuals within its midst, then I am an enemy of the alt-right and I will work from this day forward to destroy it.

Forney and Wintrich’s accusations have been met with a good deal of skepticism amongst alt-rightists, most of whom seem far more concerned by other, more public, signs that their movement in on the verge of a virtual civil war.

Spencer, for his part, has devoted much of his time in recent days to attacking “alt-lite” troll Jack Posobiec and Rebel Media’s Laura Loomer for their instantly infamous disruption of a performance of Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar.

In other tweets, Spencer has kept the feud running, calling Posobiec “an outright liar and hypocrite,” “Cuck Posobiec,” and “Crooked Jack Posobiec, lion of the Fake Right.”

Posobiec has responded by signal-boosting the accusations against Spencer and The Right Stuff.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/876511244945117186

Spencer and other alt-rightists have been organizing for a “Free Speech Rally” in Washington on June 25th. Originally, both Posobiec and Loomer were scheduled to speak. Both have bowed out because of Spencer’s attacks.

Now Posobiec has decided to organize a competing rally — also on the 25th, also in Washington — to protest “Political Violence.” Both Loomer and Wintrich are scheduled to attend.

The dueling rallies neatly symbolize the current state of animosity between the alt-right and the alt-lite. Forney and Wintrich’s accusations didn’t create these divisions, but have certainly helped to cement them.

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MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
3 years ago

@Redsilkphoenix

It’s mostly a series of one-off/short stories. There are many recurring characters (my favorite is probably Kronar, the hyper-masculine, misogynistic, strictly homosexual barbarian), and a lot of strips (especially early on) focus on the hapless sorcerer’s apprentice Ivan and his experiences at his sadistic Mistress’s court, but there’s not a ton of continuity. I still recommend reading it all the way through, though.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@PeeVee
Yeah, sucks he lost. But my vote wasn’t wasted. From a 23+ point lead to less than 6 in half a year? If that kinda swing, or even a quarter of it, is indicative of 2018… I’m keeping hope alive 🙂

JS
JS
3 years ago

5% is basically a natural 20, so it’s a possible swing for next year, too. Ridiculous in some ways that they spent $50 million or so on it, but it wasn’t just Democrat spending that that number counts.

From the NY Times, Ossoff and others spent $39.2m, and the Republicans spent $24.8m.

Most of the money funding the incumbent came from groups outside of Georgia. Most of the money for Ossoff came from individual and campaign contributors.

Still, that’s the closest Georgia 6 has been to Democratic representation in many years.

Guess who lost Georgia 6 to Democrat John J. Flynt Jr. in 1974… Everyone’s favorite Republican… Newt Gingrich.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
3 years ago

@Fabe, @PeeVee, @MrsObedMarsh,

Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that. The one time I tried to go back to the beginning on that strip, I went to a page where a noble guy on trial was making excuses about how he had no choice about being an asshole, cause then he’d be a hypocrite if he acted polite. (Said trial ended with him convicted and the people happily hauling the asshole away to be hung.) And I thought that that page surely wasn’t the first strip in the series, and since my brain wasn’t up to braining that day, didn’t look further. I’ll have another go at it when I get a chance to do so.

Thanks. 🙂

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

The current alt-right has raised eyebrows among more traditional Nazis for including gay men and Jewish people (of course, Benito Mussolini probably wouldn’t care if a fascist was gay or Jewish).

Though people with legit Nazi “movement” creds did far worse than grooming teenage boys and the far right forgave them: http://www.readthehook.com/74679/neighborhood-watch-kiddie-porn-possessor-be-released

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

Strom pleaded guilty to possessing child porn, which he claims he downloaded accidentally.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@History Nerd

Remember that time a gay man commanded Hitler’s SA? His name was Ernst Röhm.

Hitler destroyed him when he felt he could no longer overlook his sexuality.

These Pepe-posting altreich fuccbois really seem to have their hearts set on imitating their grandsires all the way down to the smallest detail.

JS
JS
3 years ago

I really wish Scott Adams wasn’t the “I like Trump” cartoonist. I’d like to work out some way to get back the money I spent on his books and cartoons back when he was at least somewhat fun to read. Ten or twenty years ago, maybe?

This week, Russia hacked the election because they knew Hillary would have been terrible for the whole world.

I wouldn’t trust Adams’s “sniff test” to tell the difference between crap and roses. Also, if sniffing something is required to determine whether it’s logical… YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG.

Most recent Dilbert today, apparently Dilbert is a stand-in for Trump. That explains a lot.

Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
3 years ago

Like others, I hope there aren’t any actual underage rape victims. But it would not surprise me.

Otherwise, Team No One.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Russia hacked the election in part because Putin hates having to deal with strong women.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

@Axe

Late as usual, but that song’s A++.

I sorta picked up the term thanks to a long-seated fascination with the once crowd-pleasing Maxwell of Don’t Starve, but…this is good material, man.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Troubelle
I kinda assumed you based your verses on that song. Similar flow in my mind. Ladies and Gentlemen was the jam back in the day. And on trailers for everything. A bit before your time, I suppose. But great musical minds think alike, I guess 😀

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

@Axe

Will admit: never heard it before.

[adds it to “game?” list]

ChimericMind
ChimericMind
3 years ago

@JS: It was my understanding that there was no “incumbent” in the race, as it was to replace Tom Price’s vacated seat. Handel may have been a long-time GOP hack who apparently is inordinately proud of her “tentacles” (!?!?!?!?), but she wasn’t actually holding the seat going into the election and therefore doesn’t count as incumbent.

Katz
3 years ago

5% is basically a natural 20

I thought you automatically won if you got a natural 20.

Andy Cooper
Andy Cooper
3 years ago

Extremism, and infighting go together like adolescent Nazis and anime. It’s certainly been the case as long as I’ve been aware of political extremes. A lot of the time, it’s what keeps extreme movements from cohering effectively, which is something I’ve been very grateful for. Political/religious extremes tend to attract people who are (not to put too fine a point on it) rather dysfunctional. Here in the UK, groups like the EDL are brimming over with young men, who have trouble holding down jobs, maintaining relationships, etc. They tend to lash out at any given opportunity, and whichever ‘organisation’ they happen to be affiliated with suffers from feuds, drama and perpetual turmoil as a result.

Radical Islam in the 20th century suffered from the same issues, and would likely have been much more successful, if all the various groups, sub-groups and factions hadn’t been devoting so much of their time to scratching each other’s eyes out.

JS
JS
3 years ago

@Chimeric, not actual incumbent, yes. I was more thinking of “same party as incumbent” but didn’t spell it out when I was writing that.

It really would have been wonderfully ironic if it went Democrat because Trump chose the previous rep for executive branch. Whoooops!

However, a woman did win, so… um, half-a-yay maybe.

Wait… “tremendous tentacles”? She even talks like the Orange one who must not be named 3 times lest he appear out of the strange angles of non-euclidean geometry.

I just wish people would stop saying, “Oh, it’s a very slight majority, so we have a mandate from the people, and we must not compromise anything.”

Drain the swamp by rerouting the Potomac into the Capitol.

tim gueguen
3 years ago

History Nerd, this post reminded me of Strom even before you brought him up. I used to run into Strom on Usenet in the late ’90s. He was a major player in the late William Pierce’s National Alliance, and announcer on the NA’s radio show American Dissident Voices. Like most of the extreme right Pierce and Strom were big believers in the idea that Jews were trying to pervert white children into being “anti-white,” gay, etc.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

“Russia hacked the election in part because Putin hates having to deal with strong women.”

If you want to know what russia do to strong women – read what they done to Nadia Savchenko. She is racist and antisemetic and no hero of mine, but trust, putin does not care for very much at all. Merkel is strong and putin doesn’t fucking care. Whoever leads whichever country, russian government needs no permission. They march into ukraine shameless and free…

misophistry
misophistry
3 years ago

Wankers on the internet are always accusing their enemies of child abuse. Its the only thing that shocks or shames them anymore as they’ve already self-justified all the other shocking shameful things they do.

Not to say that it isn’t true, but I have no reason to believe or not believe matt forney. Hope they all get locked away for their various crimes whatever they happen to be.

kiki
kiki
3 years ago

Extremism, and infighting go together like adolescent Nazis and anime. … A lot of the time, it’s what keeps extreme movements from cohering effectively, which is something I’ve been very grateful for.

Have you ever seen Mr Freedom? It’s a satirical movie from the late 60s about a fascist American superhero. It’s got Donald Pleasance in it, and Serge Gainsbourg appears in a minor role. Anyway, at one point the titular character goes to inspect his “Freedom troops”, ordinary men and women who’ve joined him in his fight for star-spangled freedom, during a “training” session. But instead of regimented rows of identically dressed, disciplined ubermenschen marching in formation, what we see looks more like a mosh pit. There are no uniforms, and many of the participants are shirtless. Some are beating each other up. Others are dancing wildly or throwing punches at the air. Others are just running in circles or primal-screaming. I may be remembering it wrong, but I think some are smeared in a substance that I’m pretty sure we’re meant to assume is poo.

It’s not the most subtle visual metaphor, but I think it gets the point across.

kiki
kiki
3 years ago

Or to put it another way, and to borrow a phrase from Someone On The Internet a few years ago, fascism has no “solid core of normalcy” around which to coalesce, so it starts to break apart whenever it gains any momentum. Here’s hoping, anyway.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Francesca

Remember that time a gay man commanded Hitler’s SA? His name was Ernst Röhm.

Hitler destroyed him when he felt he could no longer overlook his sexuality.

These Pepe-posting altreich fuccbois really seem to have their hearts set on imitating their grandsires all the way down to the smallest detail.

Yup, same thing they did with Milo. Tolerated him for a while, then kicked him off when they couldn’t stand him anymore.

Cinimon Danger (It's not my real name!)
Cinimon Danger (It's not my real name!)
3 years ago

They want to bring Ivich back, but say it would be a multi page comic, and don’t have the time to put it together right now.

The cum sprites were great.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

Come, family… let us gather around this marvelous GIF that our good friend Sarah Nyberg created of Mr. Forney at his truly alpha-est moment:

https://twitter.com/srhbutts/status/800132088053764096?lang=en

I wish I had a YT or actually image link, but Twitter doesn’t embed gifs. Still, watch and enjoy.

As a side note… Forney really needs orthotics. Badly.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Gussie
But is it ethical for nazis to punch themselves?

Susan
Susan
3 years ago

@bina
@Alan

I am so OT here, but you have stumbled into my wheelhouse!

About Coriolanus:
“Martin Brunkhorst in Shakespeare’s Coriolanus in Deutscher Bearbeitung claims that Coriolanus was in German schoolbooks throughout the 1930s. According to the nazi gloss of the play, Martius is the figure who hopes to lead the people from a false democracy to a true one ‘As Adolph Hitler in our days wishes to lead our beloved German fatherland’ (William Shakespeare, Coriolanus, London & NY: Routlege, 1976 ed. Philip Brockbank, 86). The
play was banned by American occupying forces and performed again only in 1953 in the adaptation by Brecht.”

A 1933-34 adaptation of the play in Paris at the state theater was in the background of a fascist attempted coup in February of 1934. People were upset about a lot of things, economic crisis, government scandals, etc., and they were coming to the play and using the play as a sort of rallying point. Eventually, the fascists organized some marches and attempted a coup but it failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_February_1934_crisis
The play was discontinued and I don’t think the state theater has performed it since, although there is no official ban.

I could go on about Julius Caesar, but have nerded out enough, I think.

Bina
3 years ago

Currently listening to an Irish audioplay of Coriolanus. Meanwhile, speaking of cultural barbarians trashing Shakespearean plays, guess what? Those bozos were paid to do it. Because the far-right does nothing without a well-greased palm in advance…and our ol’ buddy Juicebro is one of the greasers, apparently.

These clowns keep accusing the left of doing just what they themselves do. Very telling!

ETA: Oops, didn’t mean to trip up on you, Susan. Thanks!

@Gussie: Heartily seconding the orthotics bit. Forney’s gait is so unmenacing that it’s downright comical.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ susan

I am so OT here

I have an almost Pavlovian response to that phrase; it usually means I’m about to learn something interesting.

Martin Brunkhorst in Shakespeare’s Coriolanus in Deutscher Bearbeitung…

And I wasn’t wrong.

I think one thing that really makes the play compelling is that all the arguments and counter-arguments are presented in the strongest way. There’s no strawmanning or ‘designated villain’ type stuff. So you’re left to your own view.

I am surprised though that Nazis would wish to associate Hitler with Martius. He’s almost a lesson in hubris and what can go wrong if you think you’re infallible. Although, then again, his downfall is because he’s ‘betrayed’ by the political class. So I can see how that might resonate with the Nazi WW1 mythology. Heh, now I’m pondering again. That is why it’s so good.

@ bina

Can’t wait to hear what you think about all this. Am I reading too much into it when I see Aufidius and Volscia as Putin and Russia?

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@Bina Definitely. I’m sure other flat-footed Mammotheers had similar experiences as I did: the podiatrist was another doctor you had to see, taking those plaster molds of your feet and then getting to choose what colour your inserts were. But I am sooo glad I did because there’s a lot to be said for proper gait and posture.

For an “alpha pickup artist”, I’m kinda surprised Forney hasn’t taken some time out of his busy schedule of hating people on Twitter to have that addressed. Granted, it’s possible he can’t afford it (I don’t think the appliances are covered in Canada, let alone the US), but he’s in for possible joint pain and arthritis down the road if he keeps up that duck walk.

Just on the topic of posture problems, I found this documentary fascinating. Remember how they found the remains of King Richard III in that car park a few years ago? Well a team of experts actually found a guy with almost the exact scoliosis that Richard had and trained him in 15th Century arms to see if he was able to fight as well as history records Richard being able to.

Turns out, yes he could! He absolutely could! Not only did the old-style saddles actually brace his back to alleviate any discomfort, but in full plate mail, the test subject Dominic had no problem wielding a lance or a sword. The only issues they found was that the scoliosis affected the expansion of Dominic’s ribcage, so a lot of intense physical activity lead to breathing issues.

I just found it neat that they actually found a guy who could test this all out.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDHDvnnK4nI?ecver=1&w=560&h=315%5D

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

@Axe ‘Danger’ Calibur:

Ugh. I recently had to deal once more with the “BUT THE LEFT SHOULDNT PUNCH NAZIS” gamerbros, and I’m so sick and tired of that “argument”.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

@tim

Extremism researchers considered The National Alliance under William Pierce the group closest to being an authentic revolutionary Nazi organization in the United States. In 1983, Strom apparently started a pirate radio station called Voice of Tomorrow that broadcast National Alliance propaganda. He started the “legitimate” American Dissident Voices radio program in 1991 when more generally far right radio stations agreed to carry it. So Strom is a seasoned veteran of the far right and the Nazi movement, not some bloke living off his parents like Richard Spencer (not that there’s anything wrong with living off your parents, but Spencer quit school in the middle of a Ph.D. program at Duke University after his parents had essentially paid all his educational expenses up to that point).

@JS

Scott Adams is the pointy-haired boss. He promotes faddish Trump-like business success crap. Writing pro-Trump blog posts effectively ruined his career because nobody wanted to host a speaker associated with far right politics. Now he’s bitter and blaming everyone except himself and the far right.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ gussie

Mr. Forney at his truly alpha-est moment:</blockquote>

Worst. Goosestep. Ever.

He's not even going the right way.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ gussie

Mr. Forney at his truly alpha-est moment:

Worst. Goosestep. Ever.

He’s not even going the right way.

Katz
3 years ago

Man, pro-fascist interpretations of Coriolanus seem so bizarre to me. I mean, the lead fails at being a democratic leader because he can’t pretend to be nice to normal people for five seconds. That hardly seems like a rousing endorsement of fascism.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@dslucia
comment image

JS
JS
3 years ago

Current business success fad of the month:
Using NLP to persuade.
Creating cognitive dissonance in others as a method of “proof” that your point is correct.

Bina
3 years ago

Now that I’ve had a chance to reflect on Coriolanus for a bit (the play is long and involved, but Act I seems to lay out the basic premises well enough), yeah, I can see how it would be “adapted” to fascist ends by Hitler & Co. Ironically, though, by that token, they would be creating Entartete Kunst — degenerate art — because they didn’t stay true to the original, and perverted it for a distinctly (and hideously) modern end. Coriolanus as a putschist upstart against a political establishment — and a fascist one, at that? Maybe so. But Adolf Hitler was no Coriolanus, far from it. He was a lowly Gefreiter — Private First Class — at most. He was not a war hero. He was one of these bitter wannabe boys that I see so many of among the PUAs, the “alt”-right, and the MGTOWs. The only thing that sets him apart from them is that he had some organizational skill and some backroom leverage that enabled him to seize power from the old German elites he hated almost as much as he despised the common people (whom the elites looked down upon as well, as Menentius makes clear early on in the play). In that, I suppose, he’s something like Coriolanus.

But that’s where the similarities end. Coriolanus is something common enough in Shakespeare: a tragic hero who oversteps his rightful place in the scheme of things, and is punished for it by fate (and other people, who are fate’s instruments). Macbeth is one, and so is King Lear. And so is Brutus in Julius Caesar, who is another putschist who does not live long to repent his back-stabbing crime. Hitler may be a tragic figure, but he’s no hero. He was a “stronsmosity” — a mixed-up monstrosity — that somehow took root and grew, like a cancer. The wonder is that his reign lasted 12 years. (He was going for a thousand — ha, dream on. Cancers tend to kill their hosts unless they themselves are put out of their misery first.)

Anyhow, I’ve often heard it said that the real Shakespearean tragic figure who best approximates Donnie Drumpf is King Lear, the old ruler who demands to be flattered in order to determine who is worthiest to inherit his realm, and who exiles his youngest daughter — who loves him the best — for not dishonestly doing so, as her two treacherous elder sisters do. Obviously, Ivanka is no Cordelia. Whether there even IS one in real life here is hard to say. Does anyone seriously love this fucking buffoon?

@Gussie:

For an “alpha pickup artist”, I’m kinda surprised Forney hasn’t taken some time out of his busy schedule of hating people on Twitter to have that addressed. Granted, it’s possible he can’t afford it (I don’t think the appliances are covered in Canada, let alone the US), but he’s in for possible joint pain and arthritis down the road if he keeps up that duck walk.

To my understanding, they’re not. If they were, there are an awful lot of seniors here who wouldn’t be hobbling along on canes and walkers, or in mobility scooters, just because they couldn’t afford to have their feet non-surgically repaired. Apparently OHIP (my provincial health insurance plan) doesn’t think orthotics as much worth covering as hip and knee joint replacements. Which is just bass-ackwards. (I prefer the Cuban approach, which stresses prevention. Canada, sadly, is inching toward the mess of the US, where most people — even insured ones — can’t get even to see a doctor until it’s an emergency situation.)

What you said about Richard III is interesting, though. He did die in battle — at Bosworth Field, if I recall correctly. So it stands to reason that he was able to fight quite competently, but his successor, who won the crown by killing him, did so even better. And that too stands to reason: Henry wasn’t hampered by a bad case of scoliosis.

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

@Axe ‘Danger’ Calibur:

It’s sad how true that is of how they act. “Why won’t you tolerate my intolerance?!” is one of the quickest ways to really trip my anger switch these days, because that’s just not how things work. It’s like, m8, I know violence isn’t always the answer, but you really shouldn’t be throwing your flag up on that hill because you’re defending Nazis.

Hu's On First
Hu's On First
3 years ago

If these accusations are true, there are going to be a lot of moms and dads out there who will want to punch Richard Spencer, too!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ bina

Ooh thank you for taking the trouble to both read the thing, and especially for your thoughts. You’ve given me a lot to mull over and process. Knew you would. 🙂

@ dslucia

Maybe suggest they read a bit of Popper and/or Orwell?

comment image

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

Cinimon Danger (It’s not my real name!)

Correct. Danger is my name 😁

@dslucia

I know violence isn’t always the answer

That’s what gets me most about these bros. First of all, in the case of nazis, there’s good, historical evidence to suggest that violence might, indeed, be the answer

Secondly tho, this framing suggests that the ‘so called tolerant left’ is inherently violent and the fascists aren’t. That we specifically hafta be told that violence isn’t always the answer. We’re just as bad as literal nazis for not wringing our hands in solidarity with Richard Spencer, but they were awfully silent in November when the aforemetioned literal nazis were breaking hate crime records. Or they were talking but it was a steady stream of ‘Bernie Woulda Won’ or ‘MAGA’

you really shouldn’t be throwing your flag up on that hill because you’re defending Nazis

There you go. Tsk tsk tsk. Something something economic anxiety, blah blah calling anyone who disagrees with you a nazi, yadda yadda free speech!!1!!

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
3 years ago

Hey, who wants to see my new favourite t-shirt?

http://i.imgur.com/HYEMtz8.jpg

(From here, if anybody wants to join me in wearing our opinions on our sleeves chests.)

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

@Axe ‘Danger’ Calibur:

they were awfully silent in November when the aforemetioned literal nazis were breaking hate crime records.

Yeah, one of the things I said in response to the gamerbros was that I find it hard to feel bad about one Nazi being punched when Nazis as a whole are a far more fucking violent group of people who actively act on their horrible opinions.

Much like how the manosphere only cares about men who aren’t white in the situations where it allows them to hate on women, “anti-violence” GorbleGrips mysteriously only care about political violence when it’s aimed at reactionaries. Curious, that. See also: Reasons I can’t do anything but laugh when a gamerbro who complains about “SJWs” claims to be left-wing or liberal in any fashion.

@Alan:

Unfortunately I’m pretty sure that most of Orwell’s writings would go completely over their heads.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

Adams is a certified hypnotist, so I wouldn’t doubt he’s into NLP. Warren Farrell’s work has been getting more popular among business success people, career coaches, and the New Age movement recently. The New Age movement is more fascist now than in the 1980’s and 1990’s when it was more left-wing, though Blavatsky was more or less a proto-fascist.

Laugher at Bigots, Low-T Inbetweener Weener

@dslucia:

Also, how their misogyny mysteriously disappears whenever they feel like hating on Muslims.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@Bina Yeah, I’m in Ontario too, and I remember my mom having to pay out the nose for orthodontics and orthotics and all sorts of things that keep me walkin’ and chewin’ straight. 😛

This stuff really does need to be standard. I mean, from a pain prevention angle alone, these measures can save a ton of money down the road.

You’re right, Richard III died in battle, but not for failure on his part, either as a warrior or tactician. He was clad head to toe in heavy plated armour as knights and nobles in those days were; the doc makes it clear that the plates can absorb a lot of sword blows. He managed to nearly kill Henry Tudor himself before his own (probably biased) historian records him being surrounded by his erstwhile ally Sir William Stanley’s men, having his helmet knocked off and having a halberd brought down on the back of his skull. So even with scoliosis as severe as his, he basically had to be beaten down into submission by turncoats before finally being killed.

Of course, it’s possible this isn’t true, but the remains line up with historical record. I’m just fascinated with the story of his discovery. Certainly makes for interesting drama.

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

@Laughter at Bigots:

I wouldn’t say that their misogyny disappears, just that they have a hierarchy of bigotry, which roughly equates to brown people — trans people — women — black men — Asian men — other white men. And everyone else basically doesn’t exist.

Their panic about refugees is still heavily steeped in misogyny, after all.

Off-topic, I just found out my name was put on the Arts and Social Sciences Dean’s List this year, so that happened.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

The Orwell quote points out a dilemma for pacifists like myself. As I’ve said many times, I went to prison as a Conscientious Objector to the Vietnam War. Under the law at the time, to be an official CO you had to be opposed to “war in any form,” and your objection had to be based “on religious training and belief” — not merely a moral or rational belief. The courts, based on the Establishment clause in the Constitution, ruled that the religious test was uncontitutional and that any person who had a quasi-religious objection — in plainer words, felt that he was under compulsion from an unspecified external Higher Power not to participate in war — would be eligible for CO status. But since my beliefs were purely (I hope) moral and rational — based on the TEACHINGS of Jesus but not FAITH in Jesus — I was not eligible. (This was the so-called Seager decision, for anyone who is into that stuff.)

In the end, my case was decided on technical grounds: I did not return my CO form to the draft board in the required 30 days, because it asked me to describe religious training and belief which I did not have*. The appeals court denied my appeal on rather silly grounds — that I was really only trying to delay my induction, not reject it entirely. (This was silly because the authorities never prosecuted anyone who agreed to report for induction after being charged.) The Supreme Court then declined to hear my appeal, with only Justice William Douglas voting to hear it.

In retrospect I’m glad I didn’t get CO status, because I’ve come to regard it as mainly a loophole that allowed the warmongers to avoid throwing in prison well-educated articulate upper-middle-class young men like myself, while they shipped the working class and brown kids off to the jungles of ‘Nam to kill yellow people. If they are going to start wars, they should have to send their own kids into battle or off to prison.

But the dilemma is: if I had been of World War II age, what would I have done? I do have a visceral as well as philosophical hatred of violence, and I also believe as a practical matter that wars are the result of stupidity. We all understand now, for example, that diplomatic failures such as the punitive treatment of Germany after World War I, and then the lack of effective action against German re-armament, contributed to the rise of Hitler and World War II. On the other hand, Naziism was clear evil, and all you have to do is imagine the world with Hitler in control of Europe and with the nuclear weapons he would have inevitably developed given enough time. That thought should scare even the most dedicated pacifist. And thus, to some extent, opposing World War II WOULD have been objectively pro-Nazi whether one likies it or not. With the wisdom that time to reflect on the matter has granted me, I’ve decided that I would have been willing to participate in World War II in an indirect manner such as helping to write anti-Nazi propaganda — but I can’t say what I would have actually done as a 19-year-old during the actual war. Life is not very good at giving people easy, simple choices. It IS, all too often, a matter of the lesser of two evils.

Another big issue for pacifists is the extent to which it is just to counsel oppressed people to not resis their oppression violently. You could write volumes about that issue.

* My draft board chose to interpret the law to mean that you had to belong to a total pacifist religious group from birth — there could be no element of choice in your beliefs.