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'bating gender policing mansplaining men who should not ever be with women ever PUA return of kings sex

Guys! Stop ‘bating because it will make your hands soft and ladylike, Return of Kings warns

Turns out that hairy palms are the least of your worries, guys!

By David Futrelle

Professional “pickup artists” tend to have a thing against masturbation, largely because (one suspects) men who are not continually sexually frustrated are less receptive to their nonsense PUA teachings. And so it’s hardly surprising to find an anti-masturbation tirade on Roosh V’s crap site Return of Kings today, filled with cherry-picked science and assorted weird leaps of logic intended to prove that masturbation is very very bad for men.

Overall the post, written by a self-proclaimed “licensed personal trainer, martial artist, musician, writer, and (barely) a video reviewer and cartoonist” named Larsen Halleck, is a pretty standard example of its very particular genre.

But there’s one part of the post that strikes me as original. Seems that one of the reasons masturbation is such a bad idea for manly men is that … it makes their hands unpleasingly soft. You know, because of all the lotion.

“[W]omen are just not attracted to buttery soft, womanly hands,” Halleck declares.

In my personal experience, women love to feel the calluses upon a man’s hands, and just one lotion-soaked fap session a week will take away from the sexy, alligator-like roughness of your palms.

So fellas, forget all you’ve heard about masturbation making hair grow on your palms. Apparently it actually turns your manly man hands into lady hands.

Of course, Halleck’s advice isn’t exactly useful for those dudes whose hands have already turned “buttery soft,” and who don’t have time enough to get them all callousy before their next hot date. Luckily there is another option: stop by the local hardware store to get yourself some sandpaper-coated sanding gloves like, say, these.

Take my word for it, fellas, the ladies love to be sanded down and buffed like an old dresser you found in the alley.

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EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

@Fran:
I’ve been listening to Patrick Wyman’s amazingly good “Fall of Rome” podcast. Amongst other things, he works very hard to dispel the whole myth that the Fall of Rome was a big-bang event. You might be interested.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Alan:

We prefer “Daily Heil”.

Some old Labour hands still call it the “Daily Forger”, due to its publishing of the Zinoviev Letter in 1924.

I’ve sometimes felt bad about bringing up the Mail’s past support of Hitler and British fascism, but that Abu Hamza headline is pretty much an invitation to tar them with their past misdeeds.

Nanny Ogg's Bosom (Formerly LostInLindsey)
Nanny Ogg's Bosom (Formerly LostInLindsey)
3 years ago

I’m not even bothering to engage with the RoT nonsense.

On the subject of the Classical world, I read and reviewed a book earlier in the month called ‘Women at War in the Classical World’, by Paul Chrystal (Pen & Sword, ISBN: 9781473856608) if anyone wants an interesting read about the classical world.

On the subject of the Daily Fail headline, apparently they changed it to remove the bit about Abu Hamza after getting hassle online. Still reprehensible. I hope the people who were hurt get well soon.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@History Nerd

The people who end up with problems are the ones who have maybe 10 browser tabs open to different porn at once and they need to constantly switch tabs to get off. Needing that level of novelty can make it hard to be satisfied in an actual relationship.

Exactly. Also if you masturbate too many times it can also become problematic. 2 times a week is the acceptable amount according to doctors, 15 times a day is not. I had a friend in highschool that was obsessed with his peepee. Not good.

@Alan oh. Does Aristotle explain how women being intemperate affected Sparta’s fall? Or is he just assuming that it was the main cause of their destruction?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ moggie

I’ve sometimes felt bad about bringing up the Mail’s past support of Hitler and British fascism

I still bang on about how The Guardian campaigned against the introduction of the NHS on eugenic grounds; so I wouldn’t worry about it.

@ aulma

Does Aristotle explain how women being intemperate affected Sparta’s fall?

1. Women
2. Fall

It’s yer basic ‘an event preceding another event must have been the cause’. Now he might not have grasped correlation is not causation but in fairness it’s not like he was a philosopher or something…oh.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Violet: I still remember how everyone thought the Oklahoma City bombing was Muslims, and then it turned out to a corn-fed all-American former soldier.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Exactly. Also if you masturbate too many times it can also become problematic. 2 times a week is the acceptable amount according to doctors, 15 times a day is not.

Серьезно?? Fuck i would like sex (or relaxation*) every day at least once! 2 times a week is nothing! Doctors are just trying to stop fun. I agree 15 times a day is probably bad thing but if you have high sex drive that is not bad that you want every day. And if like me you away from your girlfriend/ boyfriend/wife/husband for work for many months what can you do if you have such high drive? You can make yourself stress and sick if you dont relax often enough….🙈

Sorry this is probably too much information…

Collateral Thought
Collateral Thought
3 years ago

@ Aulma:

Also if you masturbate too many times it can also become problematic. 2 times a week is the acceptable amount according to doctors

Citation needed.

There’s a lot of harmful myth and misinformation about this topic, and I fear you’ve been taken in by some. Doctors tend to say that if you’re happy with however much you masturbate, then it’s ok. There are manners in which one can masturbate that are riskier, of course, but that has nothing to do with frequency.

Masturbation also doesn’t generally cause relationship problems, though it can happen alongside such, or be caused by such. Correlation is not causation.

@ Valentine:

You’re quite right. Different people have different sex drives. It’s not reasonable to assign some guideline for everyone when we all want and are happy with different things.

Two sexual experiences per week seems… horribly meager to me. I mean, to each their own. What I want and am happy with has no bearing on what anyone else wants and will be happy with, and vice versa.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Alan

1. Women
2. Fall

It’s yer basic ‘an event preceding another event must have been the cause’. Now he might not have grasped correlation is not causation but in fairness it’s not like he was a philosopher or something…oh.

Yep. Exactly what I expected.

@Valentine hahahah it’s ok. Well I guess that the amount changes according to one’s sex drive, if you feel better doing it every day, then I guess that’s the best solution.

@Collateral Thought

Citation needed.

There’s a lot of harmful myth and misinformation about this topic, and I fear you’ve been taken in by som

I’ve seen this suggestion on many magazines and websites. I mentioned it because it seems like many doctors agree on it. Of course, I’m aware that a fixed number cannot work for every individual.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Aulma

2 times a week is the acceptable amount according to doctors

O.o
Bullshit!

CW: major sexual oversharing and teal deers
Who are these doctors? I’d like to know under what authority they’re making this pronouncement. Acceptable to whom? Cos it don’t work for me, tell ya that. What even counts as a ‘time’? Depending on the definition, I masturbate either a few times a day or once every 3 months or so

And Валя is right, ya can’t make this kinda ‘one frequency fits all’ approach when different people have different sex drives. Or, in fact, different goals. I’m quite libidonous, and taking care of myself has only enhanced my, long distance, relationship. Also, ‘relaxation’ isn’t just a euphemism. I use masturbation to destress and a number of other reasons other than simply ‘to get off’

Finally, imma also disagree with the idea that 15 times a day is wrong. What counts as too much masturbation is dependent on the person and that person alone. I’m grown, I know when to put my junk away. Just like I know when it’s time to stop eating or stop being awake. Excessive masturbation is only excessive when it negatively affects you, and no simple number is gonna tell you that. Oh, and imma chicken and egg confirmation on whether the masturbation causes the negative effects or vice versa
CW: major sexual oversharing and teal deers

ETA: tone came off a bit harsh. Aimed at the ideas, not at Aulma 🙂

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Alan:

I’ve got a fluffy attachment thing for my drill and we’ve found that does give pretty good results in getting her nice and shiny again.

Your social life is certainly more interesting than what PUAs can report “from the field”.
EJ:

His last audience were those people who think that dirty casuals are ruining their video games, and they weren’t dumb enough for him. Before that he was attempting to sell traditionalist Christianity to fedoras on Reddit, and they weren’t dumb enough for him. Before that he was attempting to persuade creepy guys that the way to sleep with women was to be even creepier, and let’s be frank here: that’s pretty fucking dumb.

I just love this description.

Imaginary Petal:

I will resist the urge to use up one of my three annually permitted cunnilingus references. (This does not count as a reference.)

Now you’re just massaging the count.

dreemr:

pineapple has some sort of meat tenderizer-like protein in it, so I guess theoretically it could tenderize your fingerprints clean off.

I doubt it, unless you spend a lot of time soaking your hands in pineapple juice.

Collateral Thought
Collateral Thought
3 years ago

@ Aulma:

I’ve seen this suggestion on many magazines and websites. I mentioned it because it seems like many doctors agree on it.

Sorry, but again, citation needed.

I don’t think any significant number of actual doctors agree with anything remotely akin to that. It’s manifestly wrong.

I mean, you can find a doctor or two to say most anything (e.g. the earth is flat, and early humans tamed dinosaurs, and so on), but “many” isn’t one or two.

Newt
Newt
3 years ago

@Troubelle, a couple of pages back:

My biggest problem is chronically dry, scaly, and occasionally bleedy elbows…Why those, nobody knows.

I get that too. Look up “psoriasis” (aka “middle-class eczema”).

Violet the Vile
Violet the Vile
3 years ago

@Axe, @Aulma, @Collateral Thought

Yeah I am pretty much a once a week type girl and perfectly happy with that. When I’m not on antidepressants it’s a bit more frequent, but still only three times or so which would not be anywhere near enough for a lot of people I know!

But, you know, I do it whenever I want to – I don’t feel deprived. It really is a question of everyone being different.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Axecalibur @Collateral Thought
Wow guys, does somebody have some salt and pepper ’cause you’re roasting me! 🙂
Jokes aside I’m willing to admit I’m wrong on this and I already said it.
I can’t give you the citations you need because I don’t remember the sources and to be honest I don’t really care about it. I suggested it because I heard it enough times for it to be ingrained in my memory.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Collateral

I don’t think any significant number of actual doctors agree with anything remotely akin to that. It’s manifestly wrong

Most doctors, to this day, will tell you to maintain a ‘healthy BMI’, so being manifestly wrong has never stopped em before…

Also, the masturbation limits aren’t just incorrect, they’re harmful. I remember when I found out A Bad Things was gonna happen to my body if I didn’t chastise myself and stop my hedonist ways. Cos popular science (not the publication) had just accepted that 1-2x a week was ‘normal’ and that everyone else was some sorta sex addicted weirdo…

@Aulma

Wow guys, does somebody have some salt and pepper ’cause you’re roasting me!

Teehee! Sorry about that. I guess I went a little too… ham…

Now, where’d I leave my coat…

Collateral Thought
Collateral Thought
3 years ago

@ Aulma:

S’all good.

I want to be clear though that I wasn’t roasting you; just disagreeing with one thing you said. We are not our arguments! I’ve often said things that I later found to be incorrect or unwise, and I always try to be open to changing my mind about my views.

That’s one reason I don’t like to say, “You’re wrong” when I disagree with what someone’s said or done. That’s a judgment about the person. Instead, I try to remember to disagree with the specific view expressed in that moment.

I pushed kinda hard on this topic because the kind of guideline you were advocating for is harmful misinformation, that leads people to think that they’re unhealthy (wanting too much or too little sex). That’s not your fault though, and I don’t for a moment believe that you intended any harm by it.

Take care!

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Axecalibur @Collateral Thought
It’s ok, I was joking. 😀
I understand your positions and your explanations, I humbly apologise for my suggestions.

Cos popular science (not the publication) had just accepted that 1-2x a week was ‘normal’ and that everyone else was some sorta sex addicted weirdo…

That’s probably why I heard about it.
I’ll be more careful before advocating possibly harmful stuff. 🙂

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ arctic ape

Your social life is certainly more interesting than what PUAs can report “from the field”.

I dunno; I’ll probably end up getting ‘cucked’ by that drill.

A. Noyd
A. Noyd
3 years ago

Some music for the thread. (Probably NSFW, even though there’s nothing technically explicit.)

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@A. Noyd I like it! You just opened a new world for me, I didn’t know about this artist.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Valentine:

Grumpy, i am much better writing than speaking, because i have interpreter/translator, dictonary and my english keyboard fills in what i want to say)))) so basically i am cheating

Ah, I was wondering since your vocabulary and grammar skills seemed somewhat mismatched 🙂 I thought it was a feature of “Ship English”, as you called it.

I’ve learned my English basically by reading (lots of socioeconomic privilege, free time with internet/library access), my pronunciation and hearing comprehension is totally mismatched with my grammar/vocabulary. I also use spellcheck and lots of time to carefully compose my writing.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Noyd
Damn, that shit go!

Introduced to this one by @Dali. Wouldn’t wanna take credit for the find:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzx0d3pZbdA
^NSFW
And if you’re wondering about the name, yes it is that reference 😀

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@Arctic Ape,

How the hell are you so good at punning in English, then? Wait, wait … Discworld novels, right? 🙂

Also, these absolutely killed me:
@JS

And that’s the first time I’ve mentioned ISIL and penises in the same post.

@Witch of Endor

I know how I work. I would stick that penis-person in my mouth and start biting it absentmindedly, while people looked on, horrified.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

I dunno; I’ll probably end up getting ‘cucked’ by that drill.

Hopefully it’s consensual cucking 🙂 I said more interesting, not more masculine or whatever PUAs consider their life goal.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Valentine, Arctic Ape: at one time I could read and write French fairly well, but couldn’t speak or understand the spoken word much. Same thing. It’s hard to develop those skills in any language unless you can spend a good deal of time with native speakers.

When I was in Japan, at a school that emphasizes English, they told me that only about 3% of their students became fluent. Most of them use the Japanese pronunciation of English — there are only fifty-some distinct syllables in Japanese compared to about 3000 in English. The word “baseball” is written (in the Japanese syllable “alphabet”) as “bei-su-bo-ru”, which is approximately pronounced “bays-bore”. Humorously, Japanese students who spend time in English-speaking countries and learn standard English pronunciation are often criticized for not pronouncing words the Japanese way when they go back.

AA: I’m surprised a bit, because your English writing skill level is much above most native English speakers.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Mish:

How the hell are you so good at punning in English, then?

I’m the bilingual bonobo, Pun puniscus 🙂

My brain just jumps into connections like that. For example, I had waited a long time looking for the right context for that Pan/Homo joke (which doesn’t rely on pronunciation), knowing that only a highly geeky audience would get it (how cool is it that the same word pair has unrelated but pair-related meanings from Greek and Latin, and also bonobos are stereotypically “pansexual” even if humans aren’t stereotypically homosexual).

Discworld novels, right?

BTW, it’s so great to be able to read those in two languages. The Finnish translator Mika Kivimäki obviously has to sometimes omit puns, but often the puns can be translated (thanks to loanwords and shared pop culture) or substituted (sometimes with amazing creativity).

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@Arctic Ape,

Oh my god an etymology fan. I am squeeing with excitement right now.

I’m the bilingual bonobo, Pun puniscus 🙂

This is now your new name.
I’m off to bed and I don’t wish to derail this thread further (like it’s not derailed already) – but I would love to hear about Finnish versions/substitutions of Discworld puns some time.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

@Arctic Ape Pun puniscus <3 :-))))

@Alan

The Guardian campaigned against the introduction of the NHS on eugenic grounds

They did what?!?!?! Well, shit. Even the recent past is another country O.o

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ opposable thumbs

“The state provision of healthcare will eliminate selective elimination and lead to an increase of congenitally deformed and feckless people.”

There was a surprising amount of opposition to the NHS from the left; for all sorts of reasons. It was by no means a universally popular idea generally. Maybe our American friends can take comfort in that? Shows how initial scepticism about state funded health care suddenly evaporates once you get used to it.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Alan

Maybe our American friends can take comfort in that

I both really don’t and really do…

JoeB
JoeB
3 years ago

“We’re all gonna die” watch is back on, Thanks Mr. President

@AP
BREAKING: Russia says it will treat US-led coalition planes in Syria, west of the Euphrates, as targets after US downed Syrian jet.

He can’t even cozy up to Russia properly.

Monzach
Monzach
3 years ago

@Arctic Ape

Ooh, a fellow Finnish Discworld fan! ^_^ I have to say that my favorite translated linguistic joke in Sir Terry’s oeuvre is the translation of Imp y Celyn’s name into Finnish (for context “Imp y Celyn” is actual Cymric for “Bud of the Holly”, resulting in Buddy…Celyn), which becomes Patee Mustajärvi in Finnish (for the non-Finns or non-fans of classic Finnish rock, Pate Mustajärvi is the frontman of the legendary Finnish rockband Popeda).

Also, to add my ha’p’orth to the NSWF/TMI discourse regarding…ahem…jerkin’ the gherkin, I’m “intact” and have never had any reason to use lubrication. I think I’ve mentioned it before on here, but I think it bears repeating that I’ve not participated in “the sexytimes” with another participant in over 12 years at this point, and I rarely feel the need to do any jerkin’ of my own gherkin. Take that as you will.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
3 years ago

Ooh, a fellow Finnish Discworld fan! ^_^

1. This is WHTM in a nutshell, and 2. This is why WHTM is awesome.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

@Aulma

Masturbation can be problematic if you do it in place of seeking other pleasurable life activities, but the same could be said of almost anything. That sort of problem is usually related to very excessive porn use (watching porn for several hours per day). But depressed people can use porn and masturbation to try to feel good and cope with their negative emotions.

The same goes for relationship problems. When A and B are correlated, the possibilities are: 1) A causes B, 2) B causes A, 3) both A and B are caused by other factors, 4) the correlation is a coincidence, or 5) someone nefariously gave you a dataset with higher correlation than usual.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Ah, I was wondering since your vocabulary and grammar skills seemed somewhat mismatched 🙂 I thought it was a feature of “Ship English”, as you called it.

If i want one good word i take my thoughts and use translator or dictionary. Some words i will put then forget later because i just copy-paste. if i dont understand you, i copy paste back again…
You right about ship english. For example, i easily remember lots of english words like ‘requisition’ or ‘corrosion’ because this ones i need to speak. Some words like ‘travel reimbursment’ i know what it mean but if i need to say it i just say ‘money back for travel” )))

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Arctic Ape:

Theoretically. Theoretically.

Criminutley I didn’t realize people had such strong feelings about pineapples having some sort of meat tenderizing enzyme.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Valentine

‘travel reimbursement’

This is my favourite travel claim; imagine that mileage.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2314016.1438699326!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/buzz5n-2-web.jpg

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

I don’t think Halleck has anything to worry about. All his baliset playing I’m sure has left his fingertips plenty calloused.

comment image

OHHH, wait, that’s Gurney Halleck. Dang, gonna bet Gurney’s dumber Harkonnen cousin Larsen is probably not as good a baliset player.

Cohen the Librarian
Cohen the Librarian
3 years ago

In the words of David Byrne:

Take a look at these hands
Take a look at these hands
The hand speaks
The hand of a government man

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Valentine:

You right about ship english. For example, i easily remember lots of english words like ‘requisition’ or ‘corrosion’ because this ones i need to speak. Some words like ‘travel reimbursment’ i know what it mean but if i need to say it i just say ‘money back for travel” )))

Like a century ago, when Finnish farmers sold firewood to St. Petersburg, they were said to speak “Log Haul Russian”. The more fluent ones apparently spoke it without using their hands 🙂

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

On the original post:

I’ve sometimes seen in historical romance novels* this trope that associated male sexiness, masculinity, European warrior class and somewhat calloused hands (from holding reins, if that’s even possible). I always thought, maybe the heroines in these stories were into rough sensations, or whatever.

*Possibly it was just one bestselling Finnish author, Kaari Utrio.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@alan

This one texas back to texas? 😁

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@Alan Wow, the DM sure went downhill fast….(I admit that my info is 5 yrs old. ;))

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina (and Artic Ape) : as an example, I am currently unable to use english podcasts, and asking me to speak in english make me sweat. I guess I am a good example of how some skill don’t come if you don’t use them.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@arctic ape

Sometimes i need to draw picture, but that usually only if it is about something technical (location on board, some equipment) or if another person is not speaking english, like for stevedores. But now also everyone have a translator – in turkey i just use phone of the stevedore where he had google translate 👍

@all talking about sex drive l

Regarding what all have said about ‘relaxation’ that exactly what i mean. Honestly i dont mean as euphemism i mean really – if you have such high drive and you do not release tension then actually it can make you stress. My girlfriend say this about me 🙈 i am not complicated person – if i stress it is because i need food or sex 😂😂😂

JS
JS
3 years ago

Texas to Florida, to the moon, to the ocean, to hawaii, back to texas, yes. Note the name of the traveller on top.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

TMI warning

for discussing lube use and (mostly penile) masturbation

below.

I guess for many people, a healthy amount of masturbation would be limited by how much chafing their genitals can take without being damaged. This could depend on various medical and technical factors, including things like circumcision, lube use and how soft your hands are. In other cases, a person might use unhealthy amounts of time on porn or sexual fantasies or masturbation itself, without getting physically sore.

I think the lube thing is a US cultural stereotype, maybe partly based on real practice that’s maybe associated with male circumcision. Personally I feel that using lube from a tube is just messy and inefficient, and I can pretty well manage without. (I’m intact but with very little foreskin) However, a lubed condom is useful if I want to wank hard and/or not spill anything. The lube seems to soothe my dry, exposed and frequently washed glans. My dry, frequently washed hands need their own lotion, especially during winter and when I’m planting stuff.

/TMI

Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
3 years ago

Валя, Arctic Ape – I was taught Russian in the USAF (was told later by another instructor that it was specifically Soviet Russian, for what that’s worth) and so my vocabulary is still very military. non-Russian speakers are still very impressed when I tell them that I have ice on my wings in Russian, though!