By David Futrelle
Professional “pickup artists” tend to have a thing against masturbation, largely because (one suspects) men who are not continually sexually frustrated are less receptive to their nonsense PUA teachings. And so it’s hardly surprising to find an anti-masturbation tirade on Roosh V’s crap site Return of Kings today, filled with cherry-picked science and assorted weird leaps of logic intended to prove that masturbation is very very bad for men.
Overall the post, written by a self-proclaimed “licensed personal trainer, martial artist, musician, writer, and (barely) a video reviewer and cartoonist” named Larsen Halleck, is a pretty standard example of its very particular genre.
But there’s one part of the post that strikes me as original. Seems that one of the reasons masturbation is such a bad idea for manly men is that … it makes their hands unpleasingly soft. You know, because of all the lotion.
“[W]omen are just not attracted to buttery soft, womanly hands,” Halleck declares.
In my personal experience, women love to feel the calluses upon a man’s hands, and just one lotion-soaked fap session a week will take away from the sexy, alligator-like roughness of your palms.
So fellas, forget all you’ve heard about masturbation making hair grow on your palms. Apparently it actually turns your manly man hands into lady hands.
Of course, Halleck’s advice isn’t exactly useful for those dudes whose hands have already turned “buttery soft,” and who don’t have time enough to get them all callousy before their next hot date. Luckily there is another option: stop by the local hardware store to get yourself some sandpaper-coated sanding gloves like, say, these.
Take my word for it, fellas, the ladies love to be sanded down and buffed like an old dresser you found in the alley.
@Fran:
I’ve been listening to Patrick Wyman’s amazingly good “Fall of Rome” podcast. Amongst other things, he works very hard to dispel the whole myth that the Fall of Rome was a big-bang event. You might be interested.
Alan:
Some old Labour hands still call it the “Daily Forger”, due to its publishing of the Zinoviev Letter in 1924.
I’ve sometimes felt bad about bringing up the Mail’s past support of Hitler and British fascism, but that Abu Hamza headline is pretty much an invitation to tar them with their past misdeeds.
I’m not even bothering to engage with the RoT nonsense.
On the subject of the Classical world, I read and reviewed a book earlier in the month called ‘Women at War in the Classical World’, by Paul Chrystal (Pen & Sword, ISBN: 9781473856608) if anyone wants an interesting read about the classical world.
On the subject of the Daily Fail headline, apparently they changed it to remove the bit about Abu Hamza after getting hassle online. Still reprehensible. I hope the people who were hurt get well soon.
@History Nerd
Exactly. Also if you masturbate too many times it can also become problematic. 2 times a week is the acceptable amount according to doctors, 15 times a day is not. I had a friend in highschool that was obsessed with his peepee. Not good.
@Alan oh. Does Aristotle explain how women being intemperate affected Sparta’s fall? Or is he just assuming that it was the main cause of their destruction?
@ moggie
I still bang on about how The Guardian campaigned against the introduction of the NHS on eugenic grounds; so I wouldn’t worry about it.
@ aulma
1. Women
2. Fall
It’s yer basic ‘an event preceding another event must have been the cause’. Now he might not have grasped correlation is not causation but in fairness it’s not like he was a philosopher or something…oh.
Violet: I still remember how everyone thought the Oklahoma City bombing was Muslims, and then it turned out to a corn-fed all-American former soldier.
Серьезно?? Fuck i would like sex (or relaxation*) every day at least once! 2 times a week is nothing! Doctors are just trying to stop fun. I agree 15 times a day is probably bad thing but if you have high sex drive that is not bad that you want every day. And if like me you away from your girlfriend/ boyfriend/wife/husband for work for many months what can you do if you have such high drive? You can make yourself stress and sick if you dont relax often enough….🙈
Sorry this is probably too much information…
@ Aulma:
Citation needed.
There’s a lot of harmful myth and misinformation about this topic, and I fear you’ve been taken in by some. Doctors tend to say that if you’re happy with however much you masturbate, then it’s ok. There are manners in which one can masturbate that are riskier, of course, but that has nothing to do with frequency.
Masturbation also doesn’t generally cause relationship problems, though it can happen alongside such, or be caused by such. Correlation is not causation.
@ Valentine:
You’re quite right. Different people have different sex drives. It’s not reasonable to assign some guideline for everyone when we all want and are happy with different things.
Two sexual experiences per week seems… horribly meager to me. I mean, to each their own. What I want and am happy with has no bearing on what anyone else wants and will be happy with, and vice versa.
@Alan
Yep. Exactly what I expected.
@Valentine hahahah it’s ok. Well I guess that the amount changes according to one’s sex drive, if you feel better doing it every day, then I guess that’s the best solution.
@Collateral Thought
I’ve seen this suggestion on many magazines and websites. I mentioned it because it seems like many doctors agree on it. Of course, I’m aware that a fixed number cannot work for every individual.
@Aulma
O.o
Bullshit!
CW: major sexual oversharing and teal deers
Who are these doctors? I’d like to know under what authority they’re making this pronouncement. Acceptable to whom? Cos it don’t work for me, tell ya that. What even counts as a ‘time’? Depending on the definition, I masturbate either a few times a day or once every 3 months or so
And Валя is right, ya can’t make this kinda ‘one frequency fits all’ approach when different people have different sex drives. Or, in fact, different goals. I’m quite libidonous, and taking care of myself has only enhanced my, long distance, relationship. Also, ‘relaxation’ isn’t just a euphemism. I use masturbation to destress and a number of other reasons other than simply ‘to get off’
Finally, imma also disagree with the idea that 15 times a day is wrong. What counts as too much masturbation is dependent on the person and that person alone. I’m grown, I know when to put my junk away. Just like I know when it’s time to stop eating or stop being awake. Excessive masturbation is only excessive when it negatively affects you, and no simple number is gonna tell you that. Oh, and imma chicken and egg confirmation on whether the masturbation causes the negative effects or vice versa
CW: major sexual oversharing and teal deers
ETA: tone came off a bit harsh. Aimed at the ideas, not at Aulma 🙂
Alan:
Your social life is certainly more interesting than what PUAs can report “from the field”.
EJ:
I just love this description.
Imaginary Petal:
Now you’re just massaging the count.
dreemr:
I doubt it, unless you spend a lot of time soaking your hands in pineapple juice.
@ Aulma:
Sorry, but again, citation needed.
I don’t think any significant number of actual doctors agree with anything remotely akin to that. It’s manifestly wrong.
I mean, you can find a doctor or two to say most anything (e.g. the earth is flat, and early humans tamed dinosaurs, and so on), but “many” isn’t one or two.
@Troubelle, a couple of pages back:
I get that too. Look up “psoriasis” (aka “middle-class eczema”).
@Axe, @Aulma, @Collateral Thought
Yeah I am pretty much a once a week type girl and perfectly happy with that. When I’m not on antidepressants it’s a bit more frequent, but still only three times or so which would not be anywhere near enough for a lot of people I know!
But, you know, I do it whenever I want to – I don’t feel deprived. It really is a question of everyone being different.
@Axecalibur @Collateral Thought
Wow guys, does somebody have some salt and pepper ’cause you’re roasting me! 🙂
Jokes aside I’m willing to admit I’m wrong on this and I already said it.
I can’t give you the citations you need because I don’t remember the sources and to be honest I don’t really care about it. I suggested it because I heard it enough times for it to be ingrained in my memory.
@Collateral
Most doctors, to this day, will tell you to maintain a ‘healthy BMI’, so being manifestly wrong has never stopped em before…
Also, the masturbation limits aren’t just incorrect, they’re harmful. I remember when I found out A Bad Things was gonna happen to my body if I didn’t chastise myself and stop my hedonist ways. Cos popular science (not the publication) had just accepted that 1-2x a week was ‘normal’ and that everyone else was some sorta sex addicted weirdo…
@Aulma
Teehee! Sorry about that. I guess I went a little too… ham…
Now, where’d I leave my coat…
@ Aulma:
S’all good.
I want to be clear though that I wasn’t roasting you; just disagreeing with one thing you said. We are not our arguments! I’ve often said things that I later found to be incorrect or unwise, and I always try to be open to changing my mind about my views.
That’s one reason I don’t like to say, “You’re wrong” when I disagree with what someone’s said or done. That’s a judgment about the person. Instead, I try to remember to disagree with the specific view expressed in that moment.
I pushed kinda hard on this topic because the kind of guideline you were advocating for is harmful misinformation, that leads people to think that they’re unhealthy (wanting too much or too little sex). That’s not your fault though, and I don’t for a moment believe that you intended any harm by it.
Take care!
@Axecalibur @Collateral Thought
It’s ok, I was joking. 😀
I understand your positions and your explanations, I humbly apologise for my suggestions.
That’s probably why I heard about it.
I’ll be more careful before advocating possibly harmful stuff. 🙂
@ arctic ape
I dunno; I’ll probably end up getting ‘cucked’ by that drill.
Some music for the thread. (Probably NSFW, even though there’s nothing technically explicit.)
@A. Noyd I like it! You just opened a new world for me, I didn’t know about this artist.
Valentine:
Ah, I was wondering since your vocabulary and grammar skills seemed somewhat mismatched 🙂 I thought it was a feature of “Ship English”, as you called it.
I’ve learned my English basically by reading (lots of socioeconomic privilege, free time with internet/library access), my pronunciation and hearing comprehension is totally mismatched with my grammar/vocabulary. I also use spellcheck and lots of time to carefully compose my writing.
@Noyd
Damn, that shit go!
Introduced to this one by @Dali. Wouldn’t wanna take credit for the find:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzx0d3pZbdA
^NSFW
And if you’re wondering about the name, yes it is that reference 😀
@Arctic Ape,
How the hell are you so good at punning in English, then? Wait, wait … Discworld novels, right? 🙂
Also, these absolutely killed me:
@JS
@Witch of Endor
Hopefully it’s consensual cucking 🙂 I said more interesting, not more masculine or whatever PUAs consider their life goal.
Valentine, Arctic Ape: at one time I could read and write French fairly well, but couldn’t speak or understand the spoken word much. Same thing. It’s hard to develop those skills in any language unless you can spend a good deal of time with native speakers.
When I was in Japan, at a school that emphasizes English, they told me that only about 3% of their students became fluent. Most of them use the Japanese pronunciation of English — there are only fifty-some distinct syllables in Japanese compared to about 3000 in English. The word “baseball” is written (in the Japanese syllable “alphabet”) as “bei-su-bo-ru”, which is approximately pronounced “bays-bore”. Humorously, Japanese students who spend time in English-speaking countries and learn standard English pronunciation are often criticized for not pronouncing words the Japanese way when they go back.
AA: I’m surprised a bit, because your English writing skill level is much above most native English speakers.
Mish:
I’m the bilingual bonobo, Pun puniscus 🙂
My brain just jumps into connections like that. For example, I had waited a long time looking for the right context for that Pan/Homo joke (which doesn’t rely on pronunciation), knowing that only a highly geeky audience would get it (how cool is it that the same word pair has unrelated but pair-related meanings from Greek and Latin, and also bonobos are stereotypically “pansexual” even if humans aren’t stereotypically homosexual).
BTW, it’s so great to be able to read those in two languages. The Finnish translator Mika Kivimäki obviously has to sometimes omit puns, but often the puns can be translated (thanks to loanwords and shared pop culture) or substituted (sometimes with amazing creativity).
@Arctic Ape,
Oh my god an etymology fan. I am squeeing with excitement right now.
This is now your new name.
I’m off to bed and I don’t wish to derail this thread further (like it’s not derailed already) – but I would love to hear about Finnish versions/substitutions of Discworld puns some time.
@Arctic Ape Pun puniscus <3 :-))))
@Alan
They did what?!?!?! Well, shit. Even the recent past is another country O.o
@ opposable thumbs
There was a surprising amount of opposition to the NHS from the left; for all sorts of reasons. It was by no means a universally popular idea generally. Maybe our American friends can take comfort in that? Shows how initial scepticism about state funded health care suddenly evaporates once you get used to it.
@Alan
I both really don’t and really do…
“We’re all gonna die” watch is back on, Thanks Mr. President
He can’t even cozy up to Russia properly.
@Arctic Ape
Ooh, a fellow Finnish Discworld fan! ^_^ I have to say that my favorite translated linguistic joke in Sir Terry’s oeuvre is the translation of Imp y Celyn’s name into Finnish (for context “Imp y Celyn” is actual Cymric for “Bud of the Holly”, resulting in Buddy…Celyn), which becomes Patee Mustajärvi in Finnish (for the non-Finns or non-fans of classic Finnish rock, Pate Mustajärvi is the frontman of the legendary Finnish rockband Popeda).
Also, to add my ha’p’orth to the NSWF/TMI discourse regarding…ahem…jerkin’ the gherkin, I’m “intact” and have never had any reason to use lubrication. I think I’ve mentioned it before on here, but I think it bears repeating that I’ve not participated in “the sexytimes” with another participant in over 12 years at this point, and I rarely feel the need to do any jerkin’ of my own gherkin. Take that as you will.
1. This is WHTM in a nutshell, and 2. This is why WHTM is awesome.
@Aulma
Masturbation can be problematic if you do it in place of seeking other pleasurable life activities, but the same could be said of almost anything. That sort of problem is usually related to very excessive porn use (watching porn for several hours per day). But depressed people can use porn and masturbation to try to feel good and cope with their negative emotions.
The same goes for relationship problems. When A and B are correlated, the possibilities are: 1) A causes B, 2) B causes A, 3) both A and B are caused by other factors, 4) the correlation is a coincidence, or 5) someone nefariously gave you a dataset with higher correlation than usual.
If i want one good word i take my thoughts and use translator or dictionary. Some words i will put then forget later because i just copy-paste. if i dont understand you, i copy paste back again…
You right about ship english. For example, i easily remember lots of english words like ‘requisition’ or ‘corrosion’ because this ones i need to speak. Some words like ‘travel reimbursment’ i know what it mean but if i need to say it i just say ‘money back for travel” )))
@Arctic Ape:
Theoretically. Theoretically.
Criminutley I didn’t realize people had such strong feelings about pineapples having some sort of meat tenderizing enzyme.
@ Valentine
This is my favourite travel claim; imagine that mileage.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2314016.1438699326!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/buzz5n-2-web.jpg
I don’t think Halleck has anything to worry about. All his baliset playing I’m sure has left his fingertips plenty calloused.
OHHH, wait, that’s Gurney Halleck. Dang, gonna bet Gurney’s dumber Harkonnen cousin Larsen is probably not as good a baliset player.
In the words of David Byrne:
Take a look at these hands
Take a look at these hands
The hand speaks
The hand of a government man
Valentine:
Like a century ago, when Finnish farmers sold firewood to St. Petersburg, they were said to speak “Log Haul Russian”. The more fluent ones apparently spoke it without using their hands 🙂
On the original post:
I’ve sometimes seen in historical romance novels* this trope that associated male sexiness, masculinity, European warrior class and somewhat calloused hands (from holding reins, if that’s even possible). I always thought, maybe the heroines in these stories were into rough sensations, or whatever.
*Possibly it was just one bestselling Finnish author, Kaari Utrio.
@alan
This one texas back to texas? 😁
@Alan Wow, the DM sure went downhill fast….(I admit that my info is 5 yrs old. ;))
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina (and Artic Ape) : as an example, I am currently unable to use english podcasts, and asking me to speak in english make me sweat. I guess I am a good example of how some skill don’t come if you don’t use them.
@arctic ape
Sometimes i need to draw picture, but that usually only if it is about something technical (location on board, some equipment) or if another person is not speaking english, like for stevedores. But now also everyone have a translator – in turkey i just use phone of the stevedore where he had google translate 👍
@all talking about sex drive l
Regarding what all have said about ‘relaxation’ that exactly what i mean. Honestly i dont mean as euphemism i mean really – if you have such high drive and you do not release tension then actually it can make you stress. My girlfriend say this about me 🙈 i am not complicated person – if i stress it is because i need food or sex 😂😂😂
Texas to Florida, to the moon, to the ocean, to hawaii, back to texas, yes. Note the name of the traveller on top.
TMI warning
for discussing lube use and (mostly penile) masturbation
below.
I guess for many people, a healthy amount of masturbation would be limited by how much chafing their genitals can take without being damaged. This could depend on various medical and technical factors, including things like circumcision, lube use and how soft your hands are. In other cases, a person might use unhealthy amounts of time on porn or sexual fantasies or masturbation itself, without getting physically sore.
I think the lube thing is a US cultural stereotype, maybe partly based on real practice that’s maybe associated with male circumcision. Personally I feel that using lube from a tube is just messy and inefficient, and I can pretty well manage without. (I’m intact but with very little foreskin) However, a lubed condom is useful if I want to wank hard and/or not spill anything. The lube seems to soothe my dry, exposed and frequently washed glans. My dry, frequently washed hands need their own lotion, especially during winter and when I’m planting stuff.
/TMI
Валя, Arctic Ape – I was taught Russian in the USAF (was told later by another instructor that it was specifically Soviet Russian, for what that’s worth) and so my vocabulary is still very military. non-Russian speakers are still very impressed when I tell them that I have ice on my wings in Russian, though!