By David Futrelle
Today’s MGTOW of the Day, fresh from the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, has a rather unique perspective on the relative values of men and women. As he sees it, women are vastly inferior creatures whose only value stems from the fact that they can er, carry seed.
Men, by contrast, are … buses.
I’m not sure MGTOWs have quite mastered the fine art of the metaphor yet.
Shiya,
Did you happen to read the thread where Afroaway00 made his debut? He is one of the quoted comments in the article, and he then made an appearance in the comment section.
This may give you a better understanding of the reception he is receiving here on this thread.
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2017/06/12/fat-women-who-have-sex-the-ultimate-oppressors-of-men-creepy-incels-say-yes/#more-27893
JS: I would disagree. The definition of concern troll varies, but typically what is shared in those definitions is that the concern expressed is disingenuous, aka insincere, and only used to accomplish some other goal which is the actual sincere goal. I am super sincere, and you can either believe that or not, but it doesn’t change my opinion.
Since childhood, I’ve used analogies to express myself. I apologize if you find my use of analogies offensive or if you feel like they subtract from my point; I just always thought that, if the point ALONE was convincing, there wouldn’t be an argument, so phrasing the point around something more commonly relatable could help clarify my opinion. Additionally, “no true Scotsman” is literally the logical fallacy Afro was using with #notallincels, as kupo is calling it. I don’t apologize for my use of that term.
If you don’t think I’m taking/making this argument in good faith, that is entirely up to you. I cannot convince you by continuing to make what I believe to be a good faith argument, haha.
kupo: Sure. But this is literally a public comment section about the manosphere, and Afro originally came in to comment about how stupid the poster quoted was, and then was later called out for being an incel; he was not originally trying to use anyone as a stick for beating himself with. He did, admittedly, use no true Scotsman/#notallincels super inappropriately, I agree. But he wasn’t defending the guy’s misogynistic remarks, but rather trying to distance his group from that person and his remarks. Neither is good, but one is more correctable, IMO.
So, a more realistic analogy would be having a public forum in a Starbucks about dentistry and how there are unlicensed people running around making unfounded dental diagnoses, and a guy in dental school coming in and commenting on the discussion. Though, we’re going pretty deep down the analogy rabbit hole here even for me, so I definitely will readily admit to this analogy potentially having some inconsistencies. My brain hurts. 🙂
@ shiya
I kinda did exactly that; albeit in my usual rambling way.
Your concern does you credit; but I’m afraid it’s wasted on incels. There’s a wonderfully compassionste person who used to post here. She tried to help incels out of genuine concern. All she got for her troubles was “show us your tits or gtfo”.
It may be there’s the one genuine black swan incel out there; but based on people’s experience on here it’s reasonable for them to be sceptical I suggest.
@Shiya
I am taking you at face value. If I weren’t, anyone here can tell you that you would be getting a very different reception from me.
However, you have a wall-of-text problem and it’s exhausting me. So I might come back to this tomorrow when I have more spoons, or I may not. In the interim, some advice: be succinct.
Yes he was. Read the other thread that PeeVee posted. Also your analogies are distracting from your point and don’t work.
Um. Yeahhhhhh.
This is starting to sound like miss manners. Miss manners shit that makes CORNYCHIPS TURN INTO FULL BLOWN TORTILLACHIPS RAWWWRRRR!!!!!
hahaha
@shiya
I see your point. We all see your point. Trust us. You’ve doubled, tripled down explaining yourself.
@alan
I miss Schaedfreja (I can’t remember her spelling). She is such an inspiration. Her brilliance shines.
Alan,
I miss Scildfreja.
The beautiful Fluttershy.
Ninja’d by corneychips.
@kupo: Well, let me rephrase, then: whatever it is that you would refer to that dynamic as being, which I have termed “shaming” to some disagreement, is what has gone on. If you have problems with the term “shaming” that’s a-okay, so just sub out my word “shaming” for “person A expressing the opinion that someone else’s continued presence is uncomfortable, potentially causing people who like person A to not feel comfortable continuing to interact with the cause of that uncomfortableness because it will solicit the continuation of their presence.” 🙂
A bartender would never kick someone out because “well one time he made non-violent, non-aggressive, but demeaning statements about women and is trying to apologize and isn’t doing a super good job of it, but regardless I don’t want to hear it so kick him out.” And that’s all I’m trying to say here.
@PeeVee: My statements are limited to this comment thread alone, I’ll have to give that one a read!
@cornychips
Is that who he was referencing? I miss her, too. I hope she’s doing well.
@Shiya
False equivalence. That’s not what happened here. I’m done.
So do I, very much (especially when anything viking warrior woman crops up); although I was thinking about Chiomara. She actually ventured into r/Incels. But yeah, Scildfreja too.
ETA: it says a lot about a person that they’re whom everyone instantly thinks of on hearing the word ‘compassionate’ 🙂
What is it about this guy that encourages completely innapropriate analogies from other people? Truly, a mystery.
@Shiya, firstly, I am a woman and I use she/her pronouns, but thank you for not assuming. Secondly,
Would you like to know how many misognists are in my back yard? It’s a lot! And I put up with them because, jeez, this is my friend’s party, and shucks, this may be an important work contact for my fiancé, and gosh, he clearly means well, and golly, he did ask me that totally offensive question so nicely. But I don’t have to do it here! We don’t have to be sweet to people who don’t respect us all the time.
More to the point, I considered his posting here (given his history) to be, in and of itself, a misogynistic act, and so I felt comfortable responding to it as such.
Oh, sweet Chiomara!
She’s a darling person, too. I hope she’s doing okay!
I miss Chio, too. You’re giving me the sads, Alan!
@shiya is starting to seem a little sock-puppety. i didn’t waste my life on the full text walls but i caught the phrase “as a woman and a feminist” and it just feels very much like… “be nicer to men blah blah blah they are trying blah blah also i am a woman btw”
really though, if you’re real: you can be as nice as you please to misogynists. you can give them every opportunity and help them learn wherever you can. but you can’t expect all of us to always do the same. there’s no reason we should have to.
@Alan: That’s super disappointing and I’m sorry she no longer posts here; hopefully exhaustion with the incel group wasn’t a big contributor to why she no longer does! And maybe my feelings are just wide-eyed naivete, but I know there’s some people that are (at least, without a significant attitude shift) irredeemable but it doesn’t stop me from hoping! Similarly, it doesn’t stop me from saying, “Well, if it was me, and I actually WAS trying to improve, I wouldn’t want to be discounted because of the inauthentic actions of others.”
@Policy: Oh MAN if I had a single wish it would be knowing ‘how to sum up.’ I’m ridiculously sorry, I wish I knew how, I understand your exhaustion, have a wonderful evening. I apologize about taking so many of your spoons for dumb internet things.
@kupo: Yeah, I really do need to go read that other comment section. I was saying that entirely based off of this one. And, I dunno, my overall (maybe not in this thread, but in general) success rate with analogies is typically pretty good. I do apologize if they’ve been exhausting to deal with here.
@cornychips: OH GOSH RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIVES
Really, it’s just a way out of control interpretation of the golden rule. Maybe some people don’t deserve the golden rule, but they have to exhaustively and individually prove that for me to act like they don’t. And uh… yeah, I kind of have exhaustively explained myself, and I have to drive home from work now, besides.
So uhm… love ya’ll! I’ll probably go back to being a lurker after this (hey, you don’t have to say “thank God” OUT LOUD, guys) so, sincerely thank you all for the discussion. I’m not sure any of us have budged on our feelings, and that’s fine. 🙂 I’m just glad to have the chance to even talk to a bunch of wonderful people on the internet! I hope you all have a wonderful weekend, and I apologize if I hurt any feelings or caused any discomfort in any of my posts. Even the couple of people I ‘called out,’ I think you’re amazing wonderful people and I don’t intend at all to say that your discomfort is invalid or inappropriate or that I don’t understand your actions, I 100% do.
Signing off of this last wall of text. 🙂
I must say, since Afroaway00 freely admitted to seeking attention of any sort, he’d be overjoyed at the turn this thread has taken.
I miss Scildfreja and Troubelle.
Troubelle in particular because I had taken her under my wing as my new little sister and was going to teach her how to swim.
@cat
After afroaway recused himself and was banned, I was literally thinking “i wonder how soon a sock is gonna appear and give us a not-all-incels spiel?” I was close!
Chiomara of course! awwww; gettin all nostalgic.
Practice makes perfect. Use fewer words, elaborate less, stop with the silly analogies. Most of what you’ve said is just needless repetition of your core point. It sometimes helps to drill an argument down to its basic premises, especially the ones that otherwise go unspoken. Good luck with it going forward, but the first step is to try.
@Shiya, this is not feminism 101. This is the place where misogyny is tracked and mocked.
Afro made me *Extremely* uncomfortable. He was clearly having a self loathing wank all over the place and expected us to fill in the roles of domme/audience.
And if anyone here wants to expend the emotional labor to coddle/educate people, that should be seen as a fucking *gift* I am so sick of the assumption that 1. emotional labor has no value and 2. women should be glad to give it since our time has no value. Fuck. That.
Once more for the people in the back.
I AM NOT THE ASSHOLE WHISPERER
And not to do further walls of text, but to reassure any sockpuppetry concerns:
http://imgur.com/IgYmBwY
My hair is no longer brown (rainbows!) but that’s me in my profile pic square, also. 🙂 OKAY BYE FOR REALS it’s already wayyyy past quittin’ time.
@Clever
Thank you, I was feeling much the same.
*right-clicks Shiya’s avatar*
*clicks “Search Google for this image”*
Spoiler alert: Stolen from a random Facebook marketing company’s LinkedIn page. We’ve got a proper #NotYourShield on our hands.
@ cleverforagirl
You do make me smile; you have such a wonderful turn of phrase. And I can hear the (righteous) exasperation 8,000 miles away. 🙂
Ohmigosh, because I can’t POSSIBLY actually BE that person? Thanks for the attempted dox though, love. 🙂 Now I have to go change my LinkedIn profile picture. But go ahead, message that linkedin account. Say, “Are you Shiya from WHTM?” and I will say, “Yes, yes I am.” Or, just wait for my profile picture to disappear while I find another one. Holy cow, people these days.