There’s nobody quite so sensitive to the subtle oppression of men in contemporary society than the guys who hang out on Involuntary Celibacy forums online. Which is perhaps why they spend so much of their time, er, consciousness raising about the critical issue of fat women who have sex.
On the Incels subreddit, the regulars return to the topic again and again in innumerable threads decrying the fat girl menace. Their central complaint: Fat women are able to have sex with pretty much any man they want, while similarly fat men lead lives of not-so-quiet celibacy.
“Must be nice being a fat woman,” writes someone called ASS_F.
Still get an enormous amount of dating options. Can still date perfectly decent looking men. Can fuck lower tier or drunk Chads. May even be able to shag a model every now and again.
Fellow Reddit incel mcfill1 agrees:
Women have the opportunity to be disgusting slobs and still date up.
Alas, the incels complain, this option is simply not available to men. As Afroaway00 puts it,
all women are attractive to at least some men. they can be midgets, obese, extremely tall, doesn’t matter. only men can truly be unattractive.
ZyrrosLooks explains the supposed SCIENCE behind this supposed fact:
The most funny thing of all is that fat levels affect much more unforgivingly men than women.
A difference between 12 and 16% bodyfat in a woman makes almost no difference in attractiveness. On a man it can be the difference between chad and under average, night and day. Men are expected to have very lean faces, and thus have much much harsher requirements on being lean than women.
So even in the ONLY thing that women require to be attractive, men have it much harsher, its ridiculous.
Indeed, ijustwantsomefriendz adds, with a dollop of transphobia on top,
All a woman needs to be fuckable is have a vagina
(We’ve met ijustwantsomefriendz before; he’s the guy whose incel subreddit “flair” declares that “females deserve the rope.”)
But even the fattest women get endless affirmations from thirsty men, incels complain. Usingthistoshitpost informs his fellow incel Redditors that
I was on meetme last night and 9 out of 10 of the girls on there were obese, disgusting slobs. And here is the kicker, the majority of them have orbiters and men telling them they are THICK and beautiful.
While most incels agree with usingthistoshitpost that these fat women are “disgusting” — and one even says that he doesn’t “consider them humans” — incels are also furious that these “disgusting,” inhuman, sex-having women don’t want to have sex with them. A fellow called DeLaNoochie indignantly reports that he
Thought it would be a piece of cake landing a porker. Boy, was I wrong. It’s unbelievable how much power they have. Everyone hates on them but plenty of guys fuck them. Hypocritical bastards. And they make it tougher for guys because apparently they’re sought after. Wtf
Gosh, who could possibly have imagined that “porkers” wouldn’t want to have anything to do with guys who call them “porkers?”
Even setting aside the horrific misogyny for a second, you may have noticed that pretty much none of these incel beliefs about fat women, fat men and sex have any basis in reality whatsoever — with the exception of the thing about fat women not wanting to date them.
Yes, fat women have sex. Sometimes they even — quelle surprise! — have sex with the sort of conventionally “hot” guys that incels would denounce as “chads.” But guess what, incel dudes, fat guys have sex too, sometimes even with the conventionally hot women you dudes call “Stacies.” (Hell, fat, broke, middle-aged blogger dudes who rarely leave their apartments have sex.)
None of this should be a revelation to anyone. Just take a look at the couples you see walking together through the nearest park; I guarantee you’ll see more than a few fat guys holding hands with women of all shapes and sizes. Most Americans, regardless of gender, are classified as overweight or obese today; the overwhelming majority of them have had sex.
The widespread manosphere belief — seemingly shared by most incels — that 80% of women are having all the sex with only 20% of men, with the rest of the men living sad, celibate lives, has absolutely no basis in reality; I don’t think I’ve ever seen any manospherian even try to provide statistics to back it up. Because those statistics don’t exist.
Incels claim that fat or otherwise less than “perfect”-looking men are treated much more harshly than women; the rest of us know that’s ridiculous. Women are fat-shamed from girlhood to old age, often when they are as far from fat as I am far from skinny. (I only started to get shit about my weight after I started writing about misogynistic men.) Women and girls are three times more likely to develop anorexia than men and boys.
Again, none of this is news to anyone who lives outside of the reality-distortion field of the incel subculture. Incel ideology is a mixture of misogyny and self-hatred that’s as toxic to believers as it is offensive to everyone outside their not-so-charmed circle.
Some man-loving women prefer dudes with chiseled bodies; others — perhaps even most of them, according to one possibly less-than-completely scientific survey — prefer their men with a bit of pudge.
But very few women are into bitter incel assholes who hate themselves nearly as much as they hate women. Most incel dudes — at least going by the pictures they sometimes post — are fairly average looking. It’s not their looks that keep them celibate; it’s the poison that fills their brains.
Wait, have we finally found a manospherian who has an ounce of self-awareness?
I’m so confused.
@dslucia
I’m half expecting it to turn out to be Mark fucking with us.
On a side note, I just need to whine about how my period came nine frigging days early and I’m dealing with cramps today as a result. /endwhine
@Troll, who decided to show up here:
Care to explain your misandry?
And if you want to know what’s making you unattractive, it’s your attitude. Nothing but. Change that, and you won’t need to hang around with the woman-haters-disguised-as-self-haters.
Sorry guys. I broke our troll before everyone got a chance to play with him.
It’s OK, the rest of us can tell: Afroaway just enjoys RPGing – as the most undesirable person in the history of the world, in this case. Finding that r/incels aren’t paying enough attention to them, they have now decided to play their persona for some attention here for a while, and they are fine-tuning it accordingly.
ETA, wwth, I’m sure they’ll be back.
@WWTH
Quite all right. I was more concerned about your analysis regarding my theory as to why Imperial Romans are always depicted in media as speaking with British accents, than messing with the troll.
It just occurred to me that it might be more accurate to have them speak with an Italian accent instead, because, of course, Roma is in Italy, which is something everyone, including myself, seems to have overlooked.
ETA:
In all actuality they should speak Latin with subtitles for us uncultured swinish barbarian louts who can’t etiam properly.
Man, incels are certainly capable of talking like people who don’t hate women with every fiber when they aren’t in their reddit, aren’t they?
Yes, it is. Giving virulent misogyny a silent pass is exactly the same as giving it a silent thumbs-up, and believe me that your misogynist friends are taking your silence as assent. That alone would make you exactly as bad as they are. You are an accomplice.
But it’s worse than that. If you weren’t a horrible human being yourself, you would not hang out with horrible human beings. I personally make it a policy to not associate with folks who cheer when there are vicious murders, because those people are shitty. Only shitty people are okay with being buddies with shitty people; hanging with murder cheerleaders is only possible for you if you are, yourself, shitty.
If you were a decent person, you would push back against that, but of course that would call down the /r/incels banhammer on you, because that reddit has an intrinsic shittiness.
Oh yes, the only true pain is man pain. Only men are truly human, capable of experiencing the full range of the human experience. Even aside from what I just said above, this right here is misogyny, so you are definitely a participant.
@Arctic Ape:
Late to the party here, but you are so damn PUNNY. Here, have a gold-plated Internets. Plus all the complimentary LOLcats you can cuddle.
> Alan Fourhands
I have nothing with Maria, but what about :
Down on the Gestapo,
Up in excelsis deo ?
As much as I’ll hate myself for it, I’m afraid my need for attention beats my pride. The subreddit is down and I still need people to talk to so I guess I didn’t leave afterall.
Ah, this I agree with. I think I was thrown off by your initial comparison because I don’t think I make myself out to be undesirable in order to feel oppressed. I don’t enjoy the little “oppression” I do experience and the feelings of being oppressed or marginalized are not something I chase. Instead, I RPG, as you put it, as undesirable because it fits my self-image. It’s internally motivated, not because I want a certain reception by others.
I think both of these quotes touch on something I use to justify my comments on r/incels, and that is that the misogyny and misandry are incidental to the expression of self-hatred. The point of the generalized statements are what they say about me, what they say about the groups featured in them isn’t really important or relevant to me. As weirwoodtreehugger already noted, a lot of us incels are very self-absorbed. Maybe even to the point of being narcissistic.
I recognize that my justifications won’t hold water for anyone though and I don’t disagree with the calling me an accomplice and shitty person. I don’t think I, or other incels like me, are as bad as the ones calling for violence or celebrating it are.
Can we just focus on this for a moment?
You agree that you’re being a shitty person. This means that you need to stop being a shitty person. Whether or not someone else is also being a shitty person is irrelevant.
Would you agree with that?
@Afroaway00
So, your username sounding suspiciously like a brand of racist insect spray: Coincidence or not?
@EJ I agree that it would be better to stop being a shitty person. And that’s completely irrelevant what other people are doing.
And @Hard Chairs my username is a portmanteau of afro and throwaway, because it’s a throwaway account on Reddit and because I’ve got an afro.
And?
This matters how?
And that justifies you making everyone else unwilling participants in your performance in what way?
Excellent.
Which actions have you taken in the last 24 hours which you feel are shitty? Could you have avoided taking those actions?
Remember that speaking to people, or posting online, is an action.
@Policy: You’re right, it doesn’t really matter. Like I said, the justification doesn’t hold water for anyone but myself. I will say that I don’t usually make others unwilling participants in my perfomance unless you count simply mentioning them as well. I usually quarantine myself to the incels subreddit.
@EJ: The subreddit has been made private today so I haven’t been able to do anything shitty yet. It’ll probably take a few days before I can go back to making shitty comments. Well, that’s if you guys don’t consider these comments shitty too. In that case I’m being shitty right now.
Others have said this before but I think it bears repeating: if you’re a shitty person and you know it, and you do nothing about it, you’re not incel. You are voluntarily celibate. Nobody wants to sleep with or have a relationship with a shithead, and “I’m not going to be a shithead anymore” is a decision entirely within your power. You choose not to take that step, voluntarily.
Stop calling yourself an incel as though you’re perfectly acceptable as a mate and the world is conspiring to keep you from relationships. The only one keeping you from relationships is you. The only barrier is your abhorrent personality.
Of course. I’m an incel in that I actively post on r/incels. It’s not like there is something debilitating, outside of myself, keeping me from relationships. And I certainly don’t believe the world or society has anything to do with my relationship-status. I don’t think many people could justifiably call themselves incels in the literal sense of the word.
@ afroaway
I regularly post here but I’m not a Mammoth, nor have I ever hunted one. We’re defined by what we do, not what label we attach to ourselves.
So here’s the question that fascinates me.
Everything you’ve written makes it sound as if you’re passively standing outside yourself, observing your own behaviour without taking ownership of it. Is this also the way you feel? Do you believe that you are able to stop being shitty, if you chose?
What a shock that he couldn’t stick to the flounce.
And who wants to bet that if I cared enough to go look through his posting history at reddit, he’d probably have some actively misogynistic comments?
Just because he’s claiming he doesn’t participate in the misogyny, doesn’t mean he’s telling the truth. Incels usually represent themselves as not misogynistic when they’re away from their little hives.
I don’t expect you to believe me on my word. I’d invite you to look over my post-history but r/incels is down at the moment and for some reason that means I can’t even see my own comments on there. I’d say that at my worst I’ve written misogynist comments along the lines of “all women like the same type of man/Chads” and “all women hate us/think we’re subhuman”. That’s definitely still misogynistic but like I said, the main purpose of those types of comments is what they say about me. “Women” or “Chad” is the stick I beat myself with. Not that I think that deserves any sympathy or justifies anything. I’m merely giving an explanation.
@EJ: learned helplessness is my middle name(s). So yeah, I do often feel like a passive observer of my own life. And it’s a feeling I quite like, as shameful as that might be. I’d make a great ghost, just looking at shit other people do. But I absolutely know that I could change if I decided to try.
Hooooo boy.
Learned helplessness sucks. I’m the child of deeply unhappy, messed-up parents and I can sympathise. You have my support here. However, it’s important to understand that your own actions are your responsibility, even if your circumstances are not.
Do you want to change? Do you want to become a non-shitty person and thus contribute to a better tomorrow? Do you want to stop being a narcissistic cockmunching turdburglar who hurts other people in the process of his self-flagellation and never stops to realise that he’s doing that?
If so, I’m not going to internet-diagnose you, but have you considered seeking professional help?
Women are people. Not your beat stick. I don’t think you really understand that. If you want to hate yourself, do so. But don’t drag women into it. You’re contributing to a culture in which we are objectified and men feel entitled to our bodies. Enabling misogyny is not some sort of consequence free thing. You are participating in a culture in which we are raped, abused or even murdered by men who feel entitled to us. That’s why we’re calling you shitty.
BTW, I’m saying this as a person with a history of depression and eating disorders. I have plenty of experience with self loathing. Yet I somehow managed to not join a hate group. Just in case you were going to try and tell yourself that we meanie pants Stacies who don’t understand your Very Important Man Pain.