There’s nobody quite so sensitive to the subtle oppression of men in contemporary society than the guys who hang out on Involuntary Celibacy forums online. Which is perhaps why they spend so much of their time, er, consciousness raising about the critical issue of fat women who have sex.
On the Incels subreddit, the regulars return to the topic again and again in innumerable threads decrying the fat girl menace. Their central complaint: Fat women are able to have sex with pretty much any man they want, while similarly fat men lead lives of not-so-quiet celibacy.
“Must be nice being a fat woman,” writes someone called ASS_F.
Still get an enormous amount of dating options. Can still date perfectly decent looking men. Can fuck lower tier or drunk Chads. May even be able to shag a model every now and again.
Fellow Reddit incel mcfill1 agrees:
Women have the opportunity to be disgusting slobs and still date up.
Alas, the incels complain, this option is simply not available to men. As Afroaway00 puts it,
all women are attractive to at least some men. they can be midgets, obese, extremely tall, doesn’t matter. only men can truly be unattractive.
ZyrrosLooks explains the supposed SCIENCE behind this supposed fact:
The most funny thing of all is that fat levels affect much more unforgivingly men than women.
A difference between 12 and 16% bodyfat in a woman makes almost no difference in attractiveness. On a man it can be the difference between chad and under average, night and day. Men are expected to have very lean faces, and thus have much much harsher requirements on being lean than women.
So even in the ONLY thing that women require to be attractive, men have it much harsher, its ridiculous.
Indeed, ijustwantsomefriendz adds, with a dollop of transphobia on top,
All a woman needs to be fuckable is have a vagina
(We’ve met ijustwantsomefriendz before; he’s the guy whose incel subreddit “flair” declares that “females deserve the rope.”)
But even the fattest women get endless affirmations from thirsty men, incels complain. Usingthistoshitpost informs his fellow incel Redditors that
I was on meetme last night and 9 out of 10 of the girls on there were obese, disgusting slobs. And here is the kicker, the majority of them have orbiters and men telling them they are THICK and beautiful.
While most incels agree with usingthistoshitpost that these fat women are “disgusting” — and one even says that he doesn’t “consider them humans” — incels are also furious that these “disgusting,” inhuman, sex-having women don’t want to have sex with them. A fellow called DeLaNoochie indignantly reports that he
Thought it would be a piece of cake landing a porker. Boy, was I wrong. It’s unbelievable how much power they have. Everyone hates on them but plenty of guys fuck them. Hypocritical bastards. And they make it tougher for guys because apparently they’re sought after. Wtf
Gosh, who could possibly have imagined that “porkers” wouldn’t want to have anything to do with guys who call them “porkers?”
Even setting aside the horrific misogyny for a second, you may have noticed that pretty much none of these incel beliefs about fat women, fat men and sex have any basis in reality whatsoever — with the exception of the thing about fat women not wanting to date them.
Yes, fat women have sex. Sometimes they even — quelle surprise! — have sex with the sort of conventionally “hot” guys that incels would denounce as “chads.” But guess what, incel dudes, fat guys have sex too, sometimes even with the conventionally hot women you dudes call “Stacies.” (Hell, fat, broke, middle-aged blogger dudes who rarely leave their apartments have sex.)
None of this should be a revelation to anyone. Just take a look at the couples you see walking together through the nearest park; I guarantee you’ll see more than a few fat guys holding hands with women of all shapes and sizes. Most Americans, regardless of gender, are classified as overweight or obese today; the overwhelming majority of them have had sex.
The widespread manosphere belief — seemingly shared by most incels — that 80% of women are having all the sex with only 20% of men, with the rest of the men living sad, celibate lives, has absolutely no basis in reality; I don’t think I’ve ever seen any manospherian even try to provide statistics to back it up. Because those statistics don’t exist.
Incels claim that fat or otherwise less than “perfect”-looking men are treated much more harshly than women; the rest of us know that’s ridiculous. Women are fat-shamed from girlhood to old age, often when they are as far from fat as I am far from skinny. (I only started to get shit about my weight after I started writing about misogynistic men.) Women and girls are three times more likely to develop anorexia than men and boys.
Again, none of this is news to anyone who lives outside of the reality-distortion field of the incel subculture. Incel ideology is a mixture of misogyny and self-hatred that’s as toxic to believers as it is offensive to everyone outside their not-so-charmed circle.
Some man-loving women prefer dudes with chiseled bodies; others — perhaps even most of them, according to one possibly less-than-completely scientific survey — prefer their men with a bit of pudge.
But very few women are into bitter incel assholes who hate themselves nearly as much as they hate women. Most incel dudes — at least going by the pictures they sometimes post — are fairly average looking. It’s not their looks that keep them celibate; it’s the poison that fills their brains.
This. Oh, so much this.
I’m convinced the way to be beautiful is to hang out with people who love you, whom you love.
ETA: Damn, the top of a new page. Insecurities highlighted for the world. Oh well, not a bad message.
It seems odd to get upset about the sex lives of non-humans. Did this guy get turned down by a bonobo or something?
Magnets are cool, but liquid magnets are even cooler.
I think it’s worth parsing this response, because it comes the closest to revealing that true desire lurking just under the self-pitying surface. Their entitlement is so all-encompassing that it actually causes them disbelief that the women they devote so much energy to tearing down and making feel unworthy of their very attentions are not as meek and dispirited as they expect. They have actual power, when generations of disrespect were meant to keep their self-esteem as low as these men’s perceive theirs to be.
There is some deep-seated unspoken just-world rationalization going on deep in the subconscious of a quote-unquote “incel.” It’s more than just wanting to be “Chad,” it’s like they feel deep down that the Chads should be with the Staceys for their world to make any sense.
@Otrame
When I was in my deepest point of grieving I joined an online group for cancer widows because there are certain things it’s easier if the person you’re talking to has been through it. I was assuming it would be like other online friendships I had made, where people would be supportive and helpful, comfort each other when needed, etc. But it turns out they all wanted to suffer and wallow in that suffering. And if anyone shared any of their experience, the dark shit you can’t go into with non-widows because they don’t want you hear it and they say all the wrong things, someone else would always try to one-up them. “Oh, you think it’s bad your in-laws tried to get your power of attorney removed? Well mine wouldn’t let me go to the funeral!” – that kind of thing. (BTW, everyone, know that you have way less rights than you think you do after a partner/spouse dies, even if you have all the legal paperwork. See a lawyer if your significant other gets sick, even if you think your in-laws like you.) Anyway, I left very quickly when I realized what kind of group that was, but not everyone realizes what those kinds of groups can do to you, and they find some comfort in it, and hold onto it without realizing that it’s toxic.
@Gussie Jives
Yeah, possibly, but good luck getting any incel to admit to that feeling. They’re not quite self-aware enough for that admission, because if they were, I suspect they wouldn’t be incels.
Yeah, it’s soooo easy being fat and AFAB. (Much sarcasm included)
30 years of being told I’m worthless and if I just lost weight everything would magically get better. I’m shocked when people find me attractive, or even like me in any way whatsoever because of the fat = bad = worthless bombardment I’ve received from family/friends/media/doctors/school all my life.
Dating sites are hell, I either get insulted right from the start because apparently a fat woman wanting a sexual relationship is wrong, or get messages from the BBW chasers who aren’t interested in my personality. Attempting to socialise isn’t much better, there’s always some immature idiot (of any sex) willing to be horrible to fat people. Most of the attention I get from people is negative, including from doctors who are convinced I’m diabetic and have high cholesterol even when multiple blood tests show otherwise and demand to know about my relatively healthy diet as though I’m living on take-aways and ice cream (like I can afford that!).
The house I’m living in is being sold and on Friday the estate agent brought a potential buyer round; he felt it necessary to comment in surprise on my diet – I was making displacement activity homemade pizza, all veggy, would have been vegan except cheese is life and I will fight you for it. I’m not sure how my diet is in any way relevant to selling the house or how it’s anyone’s business except my own. But the intrusions and assumptions are considered acceptable because I’m fat.
These things make me angry and incels claiming women don’t have to deal with fatphobia are aggravating in their unempathic ignorance.
Happier thoughts: my mum and her partner are both big people, and they are adorable together. And relatively happy. As happy as anyone can expect to be in life.
These incels aren’t getting laid because they’re vile people, not because they’re ‘ugly’ or ‘fat’.
Ohhh, this is my first time posting here instead of just lurking!
This feeling…I have UNLIMITED POWER!
Now seriously, this is disgusting. Only an incel could find so much hatred to throw at people.
“I thought you guys were pansexual”
“Yes, we’re attracted to all genders within the genus Pan, but not all individuals and also no Homo”
Great, the republicans are about to do something really stupid and deadly to me and I feel like I can’t do anything. Republicans have been trying for a bit now to secretly pass their ACA repeal. Problem for me is I live in Utah which means I get Hatch who has already shown himself to be one of Trump’s lapdogs and Mike Lee who I don’t even know much about but it leans towards him just bending over for Trump. If I lose my healthcare that’s it the medication I need to live is expensive and what I have counts as a pre-existing condition. I just don’t know what to do.
Bingo. That’s actually a pretty profound statement to make on any number of reactionary positions. They’re so internally contradictory and demand such constant reinforcement that self-awareness becomes anathema to them. No wonder these communities become so insular and reliant on common language and shibboleths.
Those magnet images are amazing, especially the liquid ones. Reminds me of non-Newtonian fluids.
They can do all that, turn non magnets into magnets, and point North. I’m surprised they don’t feature more in religions. When were they discovered? I know lodestones have been around for a bit, but when did their general properties become understood?
ETA: a sciency friend tells me anything can be a magnet if it’s cold enough but he may just have been trying to get me off the phone.
My wife’s grandma messaged us, saying: “My friend says there are no-go zones in Sweden. Is that true?”
I wanted to reply with a google maps link to the coordinates showing the giant fucking police station situated right in the center of the right’s favorite so called no-go zone. My wife, who is a bit more diplomatic than me, just replied “no, that’s not true”.
If these guys don’t want to sleep with fat women, then why do they get angry that fat women are having sex with other guys? (I know why; it’s because they hate all women as much as they love self-pity and whining. And because other commenters have said, they HATE that women can make sexual choices at all. They hate that they can’t go around freely raping women without any consequences.)
“Women are fat-shamed from girlhood to old age, often when they are as far from fat as I am far from skinny.”
The difference for me between being called anorexic and a twig and being called fat was only 10 pounds. TEN POUNDS, to go from classmates fussing over my eating habits to having girls snicker at me and stage-whisper behind my back, “I don’t know how she can dress like that in public, I wouldn’t wear a tank top if I had arms like that”. Thankfully I’m an adult now and I don’t hear that sort of shit anymore, nor would I have to put up with it if I did hear it.
I know, right? They’re shocked every time they take my blood pressure because it’s always on the low side of normal (I understand this is common for people with thyroid issues), they insist I need to eat less and exercise more before asking how much I do (and didn’t believe me when told them I was walking 8 miles a day and eating 1400-1800 calories per day), they insist on cholesterol and blood sugar tests but refuse to run thyroid tests even though I’ve been diagnosed with a thyroid disorder and they don’t believe me when I describe my symptoms to them, or that I feel worse when I exercise (sure, regular exercise is supposed to improve a lot of my symptoms, but it aggrivates them and I’m tired of listening to people who won’t even hear my symptoms and have started listening to my body instead).
Arctic Ape – that was quite amusing.
Imaginary Petal – in a FB thread recently, some cholmondeley tried to claim that Sweden and Germany were preparing to legalize rape for the comfort and convenience of their immigrant population.
I pointed out that InfoWar and Return of Kings do not constitute citations.
@Iseult: I don’t think it’s an oxymoron as that would require terms that contradict each other, like “pleasant incel”.
I’m reminded of a quote from one of my friend Thomas Wilde’s Mage: The Ascension chronicles, wherein the cabal in general are famously told, “You guys are apparently very proper people.” The speaker turns to the cabal’s Etherite* and says “Except you. You were apparently raised by mechanical wolves at Disneyland.” What can I say? There’s a reason the chronicle’s quotes page was called “Dingoes Ate My Plotline.”
(* Short form for those who don’t speak World of Darkness: mad scientist with a steampunk/dieselpunk/general pulp-punk aesthetic.)
I thought “celibate” literally means zero sexual activity, including solo and pr0n. So the “in” part of “incel” escapes me.
Plus, I’ve never seen anything suggesting that being a single guy is, by itself, a causal factor in depression.
The problem is it turns me off when someone deliberately targets me because they think I have a low self esteem.
This is f****** ridiculous. I’m one of those people that’s “lucky”genetically and doesn’t really gain weight no matter what I eat and I don’t have to exercise matter of fact I’m a downright lazy pothead. But when I was in high school that was the height of the heroin chic fashion movement, the most famous model of the time was Kate Moss so I thought I was too fat at 5-4 and 120 lbs.( because of society magazines and some people said so) I became anorexic and somewhat bulimic my lowest weight was 92 lbs( I think I may have had body dysmorphia although I didn’t know what that was then. I would look in the mirror and literally see fat that didn’t exist) and no one ever said a word about me being too thin but when I was 120 I was called chubby. I’ve gotten over it somewhat but I still feel uncomfortable weighing more than 110 lb even though I know it’s ridiculous. Our society really fucks peoples minds up about body image. And it was only the women who were expected to be that skinny, never the men
I’m tall and thin and relatively attractive.
Men still give you all kinds of shit.
@ArcticApe:
You win the internetz. Take them. Please.
@OP:
Says the guy hating on “them” but trying really hard to fuck “them”.
Self Awareness; That’s gotta be a thing, ri… Oh, hey, is that peanut butter?
Also, it seems much more common from my high school years to now for conventionally attractive women to be with fat guys then for a conventionally attractive man to be with a fat woman. And when I say fat I don’t mean 120 pounds like the ridiculous people.
When I weighed 100lb(for the longest time I thought that was the ideal weight even though I wasn’t anorexic or bulimic anymore. I have a very tiny frame bone structure wise so when I’m a hundred pounds or 110 like now I still have some curves, and body shaming was drilled into my head during my formative years so I can’t feel comfortable with my own body when it’s above a certain weight, which is horrendous and not how it should be but I can’t help it) my wonderful brilliant boyfriend at the time(I was 16 when we started dating and 19 when we broke up)was 6-1 and 300 lb at least, when we started dating. That is something I see pretty regularly, but I almost never see a 300 pound woman with a six foot tall conventionally attractive man with shiny hair, perfect cheekbones and a six pack.
They are so totally full of shit and it bothers me more than other topics because like Fran says I was susceptible to this myself because of my own insecurities so I felt I needed to lose weight but honestly I admired people who were confident enough to just like how they look and not be influenced by magazines and society and other people.
I never body shamed anyone else but I very well might have if I hadn’t been bullied all the way from elementary through Junior High School just for wanting to read books all the time and not play games and stuff, it made me disinclined to bully others
That’s the part that made me fucking ugly laugh. These Nazi assholes claiming they’re “fans” of the series and then acting all shocked that they’re the cannon fodder of the series that has always been about killing nazis.
L-O-Fucking-L. I can’t wait for them to play 90% of the war games that have come out within the last 20 years. Boy oh boy, they’re gonna be in for a shock.