There’s nobody quite so sensitive to the subtle oppression of men in contemporary society than the guys who hang out on Involuntary Celibacy forums online. Which is perhaps why they spend so much of their time, er, consciousness raising about the critical issue of fat women who have sex.
On the Incels subreddit, the regulars return to the topic again and again in innumerable threads decrying the fat girl menace. Their central complaint: Fat women are able to have sex with pretty much any man they want, while similarly fat men lead lives of not-so-quiet celibacy.
“Must be nice being a fat woman,” writes someone called ASS_F.
Still get an enormous amount of dating options. Can still date perfectly decent looking men. Can fuck lower tier or drunk Chads. May even be able to shag a model every now and again.
Fellow Reddit incel mcfill1 agrees:
Women have the opportunity to be disgusting slobs and still date up.
Alas, the incels complain, this option is simply not available to men. As Afroaway00 puts it,
all women are attractive to at least some men. they can be midgets, obese, extremely tall, doesn’t matter. only men can truly be unattractive.
ZyrrosLooks explains the supposed SCIENCE behind this supposed fact:
The most funny thing of all is that fat levels affect much more unforgivingly men than women.
A difference between 12 and 16% bodyfat in a woman makes almost no difference in attractiveness. On a man it can be the difference between chad and under average, night and day. Men are expected to have very lean faces, and thus have much much harsher requirements on being lean than women.
So even in the ONLY thing that women require to be attractive, men have it much harsher, its ridiculous.
Indeed, ijustwantsomefriendz adds, with a dollop of transphobia on top,
All a woman needs to be fuckable is have a vagina
(We’ve met ijustwantsomefriendz before; he’s the guy whose incel subreddit “flair” declares that “females deserve the rope.”)
But even the fattest women get endless affirmations from thirsty men, incels complain. Usingthistoshitpost informs his fellow incel Redditors that
I was on meetme last night and 9 out of 10 of the girls on there were obese, disgusting slobs. And here is the kicker, the majority of them have orbiters and men telling them they are THICK and beautiful.
While most incels agree with usingthistoshitpost that these fat women are “disgusting” — and one even says that he doesn’t “consider them humans” — incels are also furious that these “disgusting,” inhuman, sex-having women don’t want to have sex with them. A fellow called DeLaNoochie indignantly reports that he
Thought it would be a piece of cake landing a porker. Boy, was I wrong. It’s unbelievable how much power they have. Everyone hates on them but plenty of guys fuck them. Hypocritical bastards. And they make it tougher for guys because apparently they’re sought after. Wtf
Gosh, who could possibly have imagined that “porkers” wouldn’t want to have anything to do with guys who call them “porkers?”
Even setting aside the horrific misogyny for a second, you may have noticed that pretty much none of these incel beliefs about fat women, fat men and sex have any basis in reality whatsoever — with the exception of the thing about fat women not wanting to date them.
Yes, fat women have sex. Sometimes they even — quelle surprise! — have sex with the sort of conventionally “hot” guys that incels would denounce as “chads.” But guess what, incel dudes, fat guys have sex too, sometimes even with the conventionally hot women you dudes call “Stacies.” (Hell, fat, broke, middle-aged blogger dudes who rarely leave their apartments have sex.)
None of this should be a revelation to anyone. Just take a look at the couples you see walking together through the nearest park; I guarantee you’ll see more than a few fat guys holding hands with women of all shapes and sizes. Most Americans, regardless of gender, are classified as overweight or obese today; the overwhelming majority of them have had sex.
The widespread manosphere belief — seemingly shared by most incels — that 80% of women are having all the sex with only 20% of men, with the rest of the men living sad, celibate lives, has absolutely no basis in reality; I don’t think I’ve ever seen any manospherian even try to provide statistics to back it up. Because those statistics don’t exist.
Incels claim that fat or otherwise less than “perfect”-looking men are treated much more harshly than women; the rest of us know that’s ridiculous. Women are fat-shamed from girlhood to old age, often when they are as far from fat as I am far from skinny. (I only started to get shit about my weight after I started writing about misogynistic men.) Women and girls are three times more likely to develop anorexia than men and boys.
Again, none of this is news to anyone who lives outside of the reality-distortion field of the incel subculture. Incel ideology is a mixture of misogyny and self-hatred that’s as toxic to believers as it is offensive to everyone outside their not-so-charmed circle.
Some man-loving women prefer dudes with chiseled bodies; others — perhaps even most of them, according to one possibly less-than-completely scientific survey — prefer their men with a bit of pudge.
But very few women are into bitter incel assholes who hate themselves nearly as much as they hate women. Most incel dudes — at least going by the pictures they sometimes post — are fairly average looking. It’s not their looks that keep them celibate; it’s the poison that fills their brains.
Incel rhetoric, as always, would be hilarious if it wasn’t so terrifying, but I will say that I appreciate the header image, and wish to subscribe to its magazine.
I once dated a bigger guy.
He later told me that he didn’t want to date any “fatties” after I gained weight and was continually flustered that hot college women didn’t “jump on his dick.”
Yeah.
Isn’t “creepy incels” a tautology?
Imagine that, women showing an overwhelming preference for sleeping with the men who desire them over the men who hate them.
I’m AFAB. And fat. I also have a buzzcut. Undyed. And a feminist!
I’m the quintessential personification of all they hate.
I’m also asexual, so I’m not fucking anybody. No matter their gender or looks.
Fun fact: I’m agender and dress pretty androgynously. I get addressed as male despite my mahoosive boobs.
I also get a lot less stick for being fat than most women I know.
I wouldn’t be too surprised at people being politer to me because I can be mistaken for a man.
I am thoroughly creeped by thoses incels.
Seriously, if one population need a defanatization process, it’s them. They are able to whip themselve into a frenzy over trivial matter. Even taking into account that they are likely exagerating their hatred, it’s very concerning.
OT : that being said, I am relieved to see that, as usual, the avowed far-right main party of France have very lousy success on non-presidential election.
Back when I was on dating sites it was extremely common for guys to get angry if I turned them down or didn’t respond to them and inform me that I’m fat and no one is going to want me. So this whole “omg porkers have standards?!” thing has already been realized at me countless times. Actually just go on http://straightwhiteboystexting.org and you’ll see some of that behavior, though that site focuses more on the sudden mentions of sex.
But anyway, a bunch of guys felt the need to inform me that they lowered their standards when contacting me and so they were horribly offended that they didn’t meet my standards, like it’s some kind of single-axis, objective measurement and if you fall at a 6.2 and a 7.3 demeans themselves by contacting you, you should be eternally grateful.
Incels: “FAT WOMEN! You have too much self confidence, wear revealing clothes, and have too much sex with good looking men! Put on this burlap sack and be ashamed of yourself! You should only come out at night, when you will not offend my eyes!”
Woman: “No. I’m not ashamed of myself and I like wearing pretty clothes and having sex with good looking men. What are you going to do about it?”
Incels: “We won’t have sex with you! BURN!”
Woman: “….OK?”
Incels: Women, who we really hate, despite wanting to have sex with them, won’t have sex with us!
Women: Not wanting sex with you guys seems reasonable to us.
Incels: {repeat above message ad infinitum}
[unintelligible screaming]
They seem angry that supposedly undesirable women still have enough options open to NOT have to put up with guys like them. They see it as a personal insult: they think they deserve a “10” (much as I loathe to use their 10-point scale, even to mock them), and find that even a “4” won’t have them.
But as Mr. Futrelle says, ultimately it’s not about looks.
Where do these guys come from, anyway? Were they raised in an empty room with nothing but a TV and a whole box of teen comedies? Have they never interacted with real people?
They claim to hate all that shallow “Chad and Stacy culture”, which isn’t even a thing because even the most stereotypical New Jersey gym bro or Taylor Swift fan has hidden depths and isn’t defined solely by how they look, what they wear and who they fuck. Yet those same incels who revolt against this imagined culture work tirelessly to enforce it: in fact their “red pill” philosophy is all about accepting that the real world actually works that way. They’re not really against that culture: they’re just angry that they can’t be part of it. They hate Chad and want to be him. They hate Stacy and want to be with her.
Do you know how many fat dudes I see with attractive women?
It’s practically a trope in society, for crying out loud. Comedy shows actually make fun of this thing.
Citation: Homer Simpson/Marge, Peter Griffin/Lois, and the original Fat Man With Attractive Wife; Ralph Kramden and Alice.
Trump and Melange.
Some of the stupidity comes from immaturity, other parts from failing to recognize that repeating the same action and expecting different results is useless.
Woman doesn’t want to be around men who call her a “porker”? Answer is clearly to call more women “porker”s… *sigh*
My wife is magnificently curvaceous, and she’s entirely relaxed about not attracting any of these goons.
From women who like men: “I like big teddy bears I can cuddle with” and “I want some meat to hang on to while we do it”.
From men who like men: The entire bear subculture, chubs, daddies, etc.
Right now is a great time to be a big guy in terms of finding available partners who think you’re physically attractive. Yes, fat-phobia is still overwhelmingly prevalent in society and the media, but it doesn’t feel so monolithic now when you can get on the internet and find that folks don’t all agree with what the TV and the magazines at the supermarket say.
Like David said, it’s not that you’re fat, so-called incels. It’s that you’re horrible people.
Quick story time:
When I was a small child I was fat for a while and my dad, who as you all know is an abusive asshole, made life utterly unbearable for myself and my mother.
He would do all sorts of shit: jogging even though he had a manual labor job that would ensure he’d never put on much weight, barely eat food, loudly comment on how much food we ate, scream at my mother about how she made me this way, etc.
So for a while as an teenager I became an asshole and started working out and lost weight and so on, and adopted asshole attitudes and thought bodyshaming was cool.
However, I realized later on when I grew up and became an adult that this sort of thing is asshole behavior, and mostly stopped. I’m still trying to rid myself of the last bits of asshole behavior in this regard
Please, do not be like me. Caring about weight a lot is asshole behavior. Please don’t. Don’t, please. I am not a good role model in this regard and I realize that entirely.
I still work out and care about my weight a lot, but that is because I am insecure and hate myself, not because I am a Good Person.
I don’t think anyone in the manosphere actually believes in the theory that 20% of men are sleeping with 80% women and the rest of the men are doomed. Because even if you don’t look at the data for the CDC or the Kinsey Institute or whatever, all you have to do is look around and see men who aren’t chiseled Adonises who are partnered. Even if they don’t get out much, they must at least have male family members with wives and girlfriends.
The whining about how non-Chad men can’t get dates or sex is just one of the ways they justify what they’re really angry about. That women are allowed to say no to men. They’re not pissed off that fat women have sex. They’re pissed off that fat women can and do say no to them. They’re pissed off that thin women can and do say no to them. They’re pissed that virgins can and do say no to them. They’re pissed that sexually experienced women can and do say no to them.
Misogynists are angry that women have agency. They hope that fat women are a loophole because contrary to what they say, they know that women are subjected to a whole lot of hatred for being fat and they believe they’ll be desperate enough to at least pretend like they don’t have agency and say yes to anyone who comes along. When they find out that fat women also make choices about they do and do not have sex with, it’s just the last straw.
The years I’ve spent reading this site have really convinced me that the entire manosphere, no matter what branch really just boils down to anger that they aren’t allowed to force women into sex.
Still Standing, According to Jim, King of Queens, and on Seinfeld, George dated lots of thin women.
Etc. Etc.
Yet on the few comedies that star fat women, they mostly have equally fat husbands. The only exception I can think of right now is Living Single. Queen Latifah’s character dated conventionally attractive men all the time.
Can’t relate. ?
@Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Can’t relate to what?
Bitter incels getting upset because other people are happy, what are the odds?
*shakes her fat white ass up and down while humming “can’t touch this”*
These guys continue to remind me of a guy I went to school with who always bemoaned how women wouldn’t date him because he was ugly.
He wasn’t, like at all. He had sparkly blue eyes that crinkled adorably when he smiled, a sexy voice, thick dark hair, clear skin and cheekbones for miles. If Archer and Benedict Cumberbatch had a baby, it would look like him.
He was unattractive because if Archer and Benedict Cumberbatch had a baby and that baby had no self-esteem, it would act like him.
He hit on anything that moved, talked down to everyone, was rude, rarely bathed or brushed his teeth (he said he didn’t bother because he was ugly anyway.), always looked like he had pulled 3 all nighters in a row, had the same bad haircut for years and wore wrinkly clothes that weren’t very fresh smelling.
Of course, he wanted a hot, thin but with big titties, smart, preferably red headed, preferably Russian girlfriend who didn’t expect much in the way of emotional labor from him.
When I’d try to tell him he was a cutie, he’d just say, “If you really thought that you’d have gone out with me when you were single.”
(We went waaay back.)
But that isn’t how that works.
He whined about how women all only wanted to be his friend because they were so shallow. He had no idea how many of those women tolerated him because they pitied him or how many stopped a guy from beating the tar out of him when he insulted that guy or got handsy and gross with a woman in front of him.
My dad came really close once.
He could be very sweet, generous to a fault, funny and even charming. Despite his issues with women, I really thought he was a good person underneath. He just overcompensated for his lack of self-esteem by being shitty.
If he hadn’t been such a an unwashed, creep half the time, he’d have had women lining up to date him. I heard a few women remark that they had come close to getting the hots for him and then he’d do or say something shitty or turn up smelling like old garbage and they cooled right back down.
The good news is he did eventually grow out of most of the bad crap, but kept the good.
He looks back now and cringes. I think part of what helped was he got a female best friend who spoke very plainly to him, but also clearly loved him like a brother. He traveled. He went into the military and found a job he was good at and enjoyed. He found cool hobbies and made lots of friends who shared his interests. I think he just finally liked himself and liked being someone he liked.
Last I saw he had gotten married, had a beautiful son that he and his very cool wife fawn all over. He told me he wishes he’d done alot of things differently in his twenties.
I don’t know if he ever realized he was a good looking guy or not, but he seems happy now regardless.
I said all that to say this:
If the cult of incels had been around back then to feed into his issues and convince him women were evil and he’d never be happy, he might never have gotten to where he is now.
Instead of growing and learning and enjoying his life, he might have grown into a bitter, angry shithead with no one to talk to but other bitter, angry shitheads.
I wonder how many lives these incels are ruining? How many young men will never progress past their pubescent self-pity and learn to make themselves happy because they’ve gotten caught up in this hate group?
It’s a sad thought.
@kupo
To the whole “fat women have it good and get plenty of dick”. I’m fat, have been like this for 10 years now and I never received any “good” attention from men. Maybe it’s because where I live young fat people are rare, most of them are 50+ years old. I don’t know how the dating world is where these guys live so my comment might be out of place.
@WWTH
It doesn’t really fit the conditions, but if you watch some black comedians doing their routines, they will joke a lot about how fat white women are stealing all the attractive black men.
I’m not sure if this trope has been codified into movies and TV shows yet. Maybe Donald Glover will do an episode of Atlanta about it? Perhaps Black-ish did an episode about it? I dunno.