There’s nobody quite so sensitive to the subtle oppression of men in contemporary society than the guys who hang out on Involuntary Celibacy forums online. Which is perhaps why they spend so much of their time, er, consciousness raising about the critical issue of fat women who have sex.
On the Incels subreddit, the regulars return to the topic again and again in innumerable threads decrying the fat girl menace. Their central complaint: Fat women are able to have sex with pretty much any man they want, while similarly fat men lead lives of not-so-quiet celibacy.
“Must be nice being a fat woman,” writes someone called ASS_F.
Still get an enormous amount of dating options. Can still date perfectly decent looking men. Can fuck lower tier or drunk Chads. May even be able to shag a model every now and again.
Fellow Reddit incel mcfill1 agrees:
Women have the opportunity to be disgusting slobs and still date up.
Alas, the incels complain, this option is simply not available to men. As Afroaway00 puts it,
all women are attractive to at least some men. they can be midgets, obese, extremely tall, doesn’t matter. only men can truly be unattractive.
ZyrrosLooks explains the supposed SCIENCE behind this supposed fact:
The most funny thing of all is that fat levels affect much more unforgivingly men than women.
A difference between 12 and 16% bodyfat in a woman makes almost no difference in attractiveness. On a man it can be the difference between chad and under average, night and day. Men are expected to have very lean faces, and thus have much much harsher requirements on being lean than women.
So even in the ONLY thing that women require to be attractive, men have it much harsher, its ridiculous.
Indeed, ijustwantsomefriendz adds, with a dollop of transphobia on top,
All a woman needs to be fuckable is have a vagina
(We’ve met ijustwantsomefriendz before; he’s the guy whose incel subreddit “flair” declares that “females deserve the rope.”)
But even the fattest women get endless affirmations from thirsty men, incels complain. Usingthistoshitpost informs his fellow incel Redditors that
I was on meetme last night and 9 out of 10 of the girls on there were obese, disgusting slobs. And here is the kicker, the majority of them have orbiters and men telling them they are THICK and beautiful.
While most incels agree with usingthistoshitpost that these fat women are “disgusting” — and one even says that he doesn’t “consider them humans” — incels are also furious that these “disgusting,” inhuman, sex-having women don’t want to have sex with them. A fellow called DeLaNoochie indignantly reports that he
Thought it would be a piece of cake landing a porker. Boy, was I wrong. It’s unbelievable how much power they have. Everyone hates on them but plenty of guys fuck them. Hypocritical bastards. And they make it tougher for guys because apparently they’re sought after. Wtf
Gosh, who could possibly have imagined that “porkers” wouldn’t want to have anything to do with guys who call them “porkers?”
Even setting aside the horrific misogyny for a second, you may have noticed that pretty much none of these incel beliefs about fat women, fat men and sex have any basis in reality whatsoever — with the exception of the thing about fat women not wanting to date them.
Yes, fat women have sex. Sometimes they even — quelle surprise! — have sex with the sort of conventionally “hot” guys that incels would denounce as “chads.” But guess what, incel dudes, fat guys have sex too, sometimes even with the conventionally hot women you dudes call “Stacies.” (Hell, fat, broke, middle-aged blogger dudes who rarely leave their apartments have sex.)
None of this should be a revelation to anyone. Just take a look at the couples you see walking together through the nearest park; I guarantee you’ll see more than a few fat guys holding hands with women of all shapes and sizes. Most Americans, regardless of gender, are classified as overweight or obese today; the overwhelming majority of them have had sex.
The widespread manosphere belief — seemingly shared by most incels — that 80% of women are having all the sex with only 20% of men, with the rest of the men living sad, celibate lives, has absolutely no basis in reality; I don’t think I’ve ever seen any manospherian even try to provide statistics to back it up. Because those statistics don’t exist.
Incels claim that fat or otherwise less than “perfect”-looking men are treated much more harshly than women; the rest of us know that’s ridiculous. Women are fat-shamed from girlhood to old age, often when they are as far from fat as I am far from skinny. (I only started to get shit about my weight after I started writing about misogynistic men.) Women and girls are three times more likely to develop anorexia than men and boys.
Again, none of this is news to anyone who lives outside of the reality-distortion field of the incel subculture. Incel ideology is a mixture of misogyny and self-hatred that’s as toxic to believers as it is offensive to everyone outside their not-so-charmed circle.
Some man-loving women prefer dudes with chiseled bodies; others — perhaps even most of them, according to one possibly less-than-completely scientific survey — prefer their men with a bit of pudge.
But very few women are into bitter incel assholes who hate themselves nearly as much as they hate women. Most incel dudes — at least going by the pictures they sometimes post — are fairly average looking. It’s not their looks that keep them celibate; it’s the poison that fills their brains.
@thread: I just want to clarify that I never experienced physical violence from my partner. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t misrepresenting myself as any kind of expert on DV.
@black-cat-inc, what you’ve said is harmful for these reasons.
You’re saying that people who experience abuse who don’t meet your criteria are not victims. So what are they? Complicit? At fault?
You think you know what an “extreme case” is. You are declaring, wrongly, that in the majority of abusive situations it is safer short-term to leave than to stay.
You’re talking about abuse like it’s something people deliberately seek out. Like abusers have big ol’ blinking signs that say “date me to relive your childhood trauma!” You’re saying the victim is the one reenacting a pattern, like abuse is an action that the victim takes and not the abuser.
And yet when you’re called out by multiple people for your victim-blaming, your response is to deny that you did it, rather than to learn more. Yep, you’re definitely the knowledge seeker.
You do that.
If blackcat knew how “sensitive” the some of commenters are, then why didn’t they tread carefully through a new social setting? Why did they double down and get hostile, even to widdle ole me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OE7hb4WqPA
@blackcat
it was good of you to flounce before the rest of the commenters came in and tore your argument to shreds. ya know, being utterly facetious while being the new person in ANY social setting is poor judgement, some people might call it a poor CHOICE.
@ viscaria
First of all, hugs and sympathy, but you bring up an interesting point.
*warning for DV*
For the last few years we’ve been helping a friend, as best we can, in dealing with her abusive husband. I won’t go into the details, suffice to say it’s an all too familiar pattern ticking everyone of the standard red flags. The irony of the situation? Our friend is a lawyer who specialises in DV cases. She is as near as you get to being an expert.
In her ‘lucid’ moments especially, she knows exactly what’s going on and has a completely realistic assessment of the situation. She even recognises that, intellectually, she knows exactly what she needs to do and the factors why she keeps giving him ‘just one more chance’. But for all sorts of reasons (which she totally recognises and acknowledges as such) the cycle continues.
Ugh, I don’t even like talking about it, but I guess the point I’m.trying to make (and I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I guess you’re not the primary audience I’m aiming for) is that when people say “Why don’t they just leave?”, well, it’s far from that simple, for all sorts of reasons.
@Alan
Thanks for that. It’s really not as straightforward as choosing to leave. Hell, I made that choice at least a dozen times and it was always re-made for me in the most manipulative ways possible. I’m glad she’s been candid with you about it. That was something I could never do.
Sorry. Some baby animals to make up for it:
http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uuuploads/cute-baby-animals/cute-baby-animals-13.jpg
http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uuuploads/cute-baby-animals/cute-baby-animals-10.jpg
http://cdn.salemweb.net/godvine/pics/Baby-Animals/Baby%20Seal.jpg
[TW: Domestic violence, sexual violence; this whole comment]
Isn’t it interesting how the (known) pattern of victims of abuse subsequently winding up in abusive relationships is always explained as the victims choosing it, and people never ask whether there are tells of theirs that abusers are familiar with and would lead to them being intentionally targeted.
To put it another way: We know that abused people tend to be serially abused, and we (societal we, here) keep on asking why they keep seeking out abusers. But seldom do we ask whether abusers seek them out, and try to fix that issue instead.
We know that many sexual predators are not opportunistic, but attack people unlikely to be believed, people unlikely to report (e.g. because of previous experiences) et cetera. Why would we think that perpetrators of domestic violence are less calculating than that? Especially since we know that domestic violence is often committed in cold blood.
@black-cat-inc
This
violates this portion of the comments policy (IMHO)
(victim blaming, abuse apologia).
Are you aware that ~75% of women killed by their abusive partners are killed after they leave?
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/oct/20/domestic-private-violence-women-men-abuse-hbo-ray-rice
That article’s from 2014, the exact percentage might have changed.
Bull. See the first bit I quoted from you.
Republicans and Trumplethinskin voters think they’re not bad people either.
I suspect I borked a tag somewhere.fixed itQFT
Of *course* abusers target a certain type of person. My ex used to tell me that he targeted women with low self esteem and mental illness, with youth being a bonus.
Read The Stranger Beside Me. Ted Bundy fully admitted he targeted more defenseless women and even made himself look helpless (he liked to use a cast or sling, iirc) to draw them in. If a woman seemed strong or self-assured he moved on to the next target.
Lots of people ask why a battered woman stays.
Nobody asks why the batterer stays.
@David Futrelle
Braggart.
Tsk.
More attempts at dehumanizing women. We never suffer according to them. Speaking as an overweight woman who gained weight from a thyroid issue and who used to be skinny, the difference is night and day. I’m invisible to most people. I never get guys asking me out like before. Guys don’t even want to be friends with me let alone date me. I don’t get mean comments; I just get nothing: no smiles, no holding doors open, etc. I have seen firsthand both sides and it is not fun. It’s totally delusional to think fat discrimination doesn’t happen to all people, including women.
I’m sure the vast majority of regulars here are fully aware of the awesome captain awkward advice blog. As a woman over 50 who’s struggled for many years with multiple issues (including autism, OCPD, bipolar, being married to a cheating, lying, narcissistic, manipulative, borderline psychopath AND online dating issues), her excellent advice helped me through some tough times. Here is her excellent advice about fat acceptance and online dating for fat girls which helped me:
https://captainawkward.com/category/captain-awkwards-dating-guide-for-geeks/
https://captainawkward.com/2017/05/22/968-how-can-i-stop-fat-shaming-myself-and-enjoy-my-life/
It applies to everyone, not just fat girls.
I managed to meet someone who totally helped me overcome a lot of my issues. I’m not even sure if the relationship is still on right now, I kinda developed the self-esteem and boundary-setting that she advocates so well to enforce solid boundaries and, most importantly, be prepared to end it when they were overstepped.
But, even if it does end, which I think is likely, it has helped with developing the self-confidence that I so sorely lacked before over my weight and other issues that negatively impacted on my online dating experiences.
It’s great that you found something that works for you. However, as you probably already know, different bodies work differently. Me? I’m losing weight pretty steadily yet rapidly due to switching from Concerta to Adderall. When I was on Concerta and GAINING, it was because that crap suppressed my appetite all too well during the day and it wouldn’t wear off until the wee hours (by which time, needless to say, I was freaking *starving*). All that to say, I definitely need breakfast.
@Everyone else: As for attention from guys, even at my peak weight, I still got more than enough. Granted, I was never *truly* fat but if that pisses off those sad, strange little men–all the better!
Also, nthing the statement about the reason “incels” (what a bullshit word!) don’t get any. It’s got exactly *makes a show of doing a complex math problem* fuck-all to do with their looks (or their income level) and a lot (if not everything) to do with their horribad attitudes which are invariably a disgusting combination of entitlement and self-pity.
“The widespread manosphere belief — seemingly shared by most incels — that 80% of women are having all the sex with only 20% of men, with the rest of the men living sad, celibate lives, has absolutely no basis in reality; I don’t think I’ve ever seen any manospherian even try to provide statistics to back it up. Because those statistics don’t exist.”
Actually they do, tho not exactly in those terms.
But it’s a well known fact that ~80% of women are into ~20%. Though most settle lower. OKCupid stats show that for instance
See here:
@Mike
Jordan Peterson is a grade A, antifeminist shitgibbon. Anything not from him? And more rigorous than a discount TedTalk with an unrepresentative thumbnail?
The fact that women might select men with certain features as the most attractive, does not mean that’s the only type of man she has sex with. I could list 25 male celebrities I find hot easily. I’ve never had sex with any of them. I only once had sex with someone who liked one of them. A Christian Bale look a like. Misandry! And I digress…
So what if only a small minority of men get most of the messages on a dating site? That doesn’t mean the other men never get laid.
This is an ironic necro troll though. Considering that our most recent thread is about an MGTOW whining about the horrors of 40 year old women with dyed hair.
And why are so many trolls name Mike or Mark? I feel bad for all the decent guys who bear that name.
@WWTH
American Psycho or American Hustle? The amount of misandry is dependent on which ?
Lol.
Whenever you see someone claim “80% of X relates to 20% of Y” you can throw it out, it’s just someone talking about a general trend that they didn’t actually analyse. 80-20 just a Pareto distribution that’s snappy and easy to remember. It’s used in economics as the Pareto Principle, so no wonder the MRA sexual-market-value douchebags think it’s all that. Also used in computer science for gauging the fitness of unit test sets, in engineering, in statistical estimation… 80% of population X affects 20% of population Y is a cognitive shorthand for “I don’t really know the relationship here so Im’a just assume an exponential distribution, but I don’t wanna clean the data and do the math and Pareto’s close enough.”
Here’s a hint for you: the “80% affects 20%” doesn’t have to add up to 100, because you’re measuring the relationship between two independent populations. Actually adding up to 100% is quite unlikely. If that dorkus actually did his f’n homework, you’d see something like 80-10 or 70-40 or something. But he wanted something snappy and sounds’-right’ey, so he drew on his economics-and-STEM background, yanked the Pareto Principle out of his butt, and splatted it onto his TED Talk.
Learn to math before you try to pose as a STEMlord.
80% of misandry is due to 20% of Christian Bale, donchakno.
Axe,
American Psycho. What can I say. We wimmenz just love thugs and bad boys!
The Incel post mentions that women can have sex at between 11% and 16% fat and the difference doesn’t cause discrimination. Aside from his other total inaccuracies, I would like to point out that 11% to 16% fat is pathologically low for women. Healthy women should be about 23%-33% body fat (higher end for swimmers, a bit lower for runners). Healthy men, it’s 11% to 19%, higher than this idiot knows.
At below 22% women stop having periods. Not only is this guy fat phobic and badly misinformed, if he thinks a man being over 16% body fat is too fat to date, he has serious body image problems!