MGTOW Saturday continues with an exciting new evo-psych explanation as to why women, who are so evil, are also so appealing to most men. Because they’re basically giant, sexy Big Macs, at least according to this evo-psychologist wannabe posting in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit.
And now I’m hungry again.
@Oogly-senpai
Ah, I see you’re abreast of the hot new icon of our movement.
I saw someone dressed up as a female version of the Babadook and now I am jellymad I can’t do it without seeming unoriginal now.
Maybe…maybe I’ll do an anime style Monster Musume version instead.
@Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Hmm, female babadook…
/ googles rule 63 babadook and female babadook
It’s only jojo/undertale rule 63 and generic cosplay of the babadook. That’s disappoint.
Oh noes a trans black woman is cosplaying muh hentai monster girl anime HERESY HERESY EVERYWHERE!!!!1111!1
In all seriousness though that sounds like a pretty neat idea. Oh imagine in another universe this event happens but the media was Monster Musume, I can’t even begin to think what the anime nazis would say.
@everyone
It also just occurred to me no one ever said it would be anti-feminist to submit to women, which I have also done(I’m bi) it’s just wrong if I submit to men which seems like a silly argument
@Fran
I read your response to the long comment I wrote in the other thread and I’m really sorry about your father and I can’t think of a way to help I can just offer internet hugs if you want them but I have an idea if I’m not being rude to suggest something about your mom. If your dad has been physically, verbally and emotionally abusive to your mother for a long time she might have at least mild PTSD, and her lying to you about ridiculous things that are obviously lies might just be a defense mechanism. Maybe if you sat her down and explained to her calmly you are nothing like your father and will never respond like him could help(if you haven’t tried that already) she may know it logically but not know it viscerally and maybe it could help if you discussed it. Just a suggestion, I do not know your mother so I have no idea if this is a good idea or not, it’s just an idea. Just trying to help if possible.
Also I’m perfectly happy to exchange emails or do Skype(I don’t know what the last thing you mentioned is because I’m computer illiterate) I only know Skype because my brother showed me how to do it so I could see and talk to my niece on it. I’m a touch old fashioned because I started hanging out and making friends before internet was ubiquitous so I still give people my phone number if I want to talk to them. I know that’s considered strange and/or dangerous nowadays and I almost never give it out to people I just met but if I’ve been getting along with someone(I also seem to be a pretty good judge of character, out of everyone I’ve ever given my phone number to, I’ve only had to block 4 of them and that was after either a bad breakup or betrayal of some sort)for a little while, talking on the phone is just so much easier to me than emails cause it’s what I’m used to. From the beginning emails have just seemed so impersonal to me, like something you’d use for work not for friends. I’ve only recently got accustomed to it)But Skype is cool, especially cuz you can actually see the person(to me that still seems like magic?)Whichever communication method you prefer and makes you most comfortable is fine with me.(I also totally get the not being allowed to have people over. I’m also living with my mom at the moment and I can have a few people over but only people she’s known for over a decade. Pretty much only people I went to high school with)
I hope things are going well for you for the moment at least and I’m sure we’ll figure something out eventually. I hope you had a lovely weekend and enjoyed the weather. Long Island does seem far away to someone who lives in Manhattan(but not quite here be dragons territory like you joked before, that would be New Jersey?)but I’m still pretty sure we have the same weather and it was finally warm and gorgeous for a few days in a row. I hope everyone else in the NYC area also got to enjoy the warm weather we finally got this weekend.
@Grumpy: Forgive me if it was covered in another thread, but what was it you were imprisoned for? If it’s actually not something you want to talk about, I understand, but the way you mentioned it seemed to indicate it was for a cause, so I thought you’d probably be willing to share.
Also, Off-topic for thread, on-topic for site:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-and-maryland-to-sue-president-trump-alleging-breach-of-constitutional-oath/2017/06/11/0059e1f0-4f19-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html?utm_term=.b18ea32395ea
FINALLY.
@ Oogly and Francesca
I’ve been pretty confused about the sudden Babadook thing. Where the heck did that come from?
Edit: never mind, I just looked it up. Lol!
@KK
Not all that silly, IMO. I mean, anyone saying it’s “wrong” is a shithole of the highest order. There’s still the issue of historical, social power dynamics tho. The situations are different depending on the genders of the people taking which role. Women were literally the property of their dads/husbands not too long ago in ‘the west’. That shit still influences society today. So, the actual oppression and dominance of women by men in the culture can’t be entirely separated from the performed oppression and dominance of a woman by a man in the bedroom. Or vice versa. See what I’m saying?
@Axe
I guess I see where you’re coming from in the sense that yes women have to deal with systemically male dominated society, and that sucks. I just don’t get the mindset that jumps from there to what I do in the privacy of my own bedroom. I just don’t see how my bedroom habits are relevant in any way shape or form to my activism, views and/or politics and I especially don’t see how they can have an effect on anyone else. Like how do my bedroom habits disgrace the feminist movement? (that’s a quote, by the way)Or make other women look bad? that is what truly bothers me most about the argument.
So I guess you’re right, if you’re thinking BDSM is “anti-feminist” already, thinking it’s worse for me to submit to men isn’t silly but what makes people think that way in the first place is what I don’t understand. Because maybe I’m being naive but I do feel it’s completely different because I’m being dominated by a man (or a woman)but since it’s my own choice the performed dominance in the bedroom doesn’t seem anything like the actual oppression of women and/or the systemic sexism that runs rampant through our society. I didn’t choose those.
Then there’s also the fact that in BDSM technically the sub is truly the one in charge because you can safe word at any moment and the scene ends. Full stop. There’s no safe word to stop sexism or misogyny or rape culture in everyday society so to me it really does seem very different. If this is naive or ignorant in some way please tell me. I will not be offended cause I know I’m somewhat new to this(maybe not feminism 101 but I definitely don’t have a degree yet?)
@Katie
Other folks have said a lot of what I would have, including Ohlmann, Axe, Paradoxy,
The short of it is basically yes, they were being assholes.
I lean towards ‘feeling good about yourself. ‘Course, I have additional reasons for performing femininity very strongly.
Discord is a kinda group chat type of thing. It’s got private messages and probably private chats but I don’t know a lot about the details yet.
In the interest of keeping up with this sort of thing, and because Fran suggested it a while back, I’ve started one for the Mammoth, as a place to take OT discussions when the original thread peters out, or when they’re scattered over a bunch of threads, or when someone doesn’t want to hear about it anymore or whatever.
This should take you to a way to sign up for the app.
@Sally
Some of the men I work with would be utterly amazed to learn that taking off their clothes for money contributes to the objectification of women as a group. Given that they’re men and all, I’m not really seeing how they do either. Maybe give me a hint?
@Axe
Sounds about right to me.
@Sandra
This
@GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
There’s a lot to unpack right here. For starters, the assumption that sex work is intrinsically more exploitative than any other contract labour. A lot of sex workers are in exploitative situations, to be sure, but so are a lot of farm and factory workers; nobody says that sweatshops are a reason factories should be prohibited, though. Abolition of slavery wasn’t the same thing as abolition of farm work nor domestic services.
@Fran
It sure boosted my mood.
They look like having a pretty good thing going from where I stand. Which, admittedly, is very far away.
There’s a lot of legitimate comparisons that can be made.
@ChimericMind
He was a draft resister. IIRC it was mentioned in another recent thread, can’t recall which.
Re BDSM. KatieKitten420 said
It is absolutely not naive or ignorant. In case my comment earlier wasn’t clear enough: there is nothing inherently unfeminist or antifeminist about BDSM. No matter if you’re a sub or a dom; no matter if you’re sub to a guy or not.
There’s nothing inherently feminist about it, either, in case that needs clarifying.
Having a degree in a related subject isn’t necessary (just look at what Paradoxical Intention has said about being a sub – fucking eloquent and on point). However, fwiw, I have a PhD in gender studies/feminist theory. I’ve done a great deal of research and writing on BDSM. I’ve also been personally involved with it. And it is no more or no less feminist than any other sexual practice/identity.
@mish
The degree thing was a joke. People are always saying “we’re not here to teach you feminism 101, you can Google that shit” if it wasn’t clear what I meant. I meant I’ve just recently maybe the last five years seeing myself as a feminist and I do not know a lot of the nuances and different beliefs and different factions, etc.
But thank you very much for making me feel better about the topic. It’s something that I’m insecure about and hearing you talk so definitively makes me feel good.
@KatieKitten420
I figured the degree comment was a joke, yes – but you often under-sell yourself (in your comments here, I mean, as that’s all I have to go on). So I thought I’d throw some academic credibility around in support of your view (like I said, very much fwiw).
@KK
I don’t see how it wouldn’t be relevant. IME, nobody is as good at compartmentalizing stuff as they think they are. Perspective matters, experience matters. How you see the world is gonna be, even slightly, different to how a more vanilla person sees it. And that’s great!
Well, in your anecdote and right now, you’re literally talking about it with other people, so your bedroom habits do strictly have an effect on other people. But I catch your point 🙂
Again, *hugs*, cos that’s some fuckery right there. The only way for someone to think badly of women in response to something you do, is for them to have already had some shit views about women from the get go
You didn’t choose those, they were chosen for you. And that, as you so eloquently put it, sucks ? Still, they do look similar, don’t they? They do present with similar trappings, right? Like, there’s a reason that male subs are often subject to emasculating play while female subs aren’t as often defeminized. Cos femininity is culturally coded weaker and more passive. And that comes from the culture. No, it’s not remotely the same. But “doesn’t seem anything like”? I dunno about all that…
Yo, I’m both brand ass new and not a woman. So I’ve been in ‘remedial feminism’ for, like, 2 years now, and I’ll probably stay here indefinitely ?
@Dali
Then I’ll trust your judgement ?
RE: Sex work
So, my new job is storing crap in a giant warehouse for a ten hour shift, with items weighing up to 30 lbs because fuck the clearly superior metric system. The warehouse is approximately the size of manhattan, or it feels like, cause it takes between three and seven minutes to get from the workspace to the bathrooms, break rooms, or time clocks depending on where and what floor you’re working. Additionally, the system dings you if you take too much time doing things.
Even if it’s not your fault, like the fact that the warehouse is already at 105% capacity.
I’ve completed four days of that so far. My feet hurt like hell, as did my arms and wrists, plus a persistent headache and swelling in various areas. Oh, and my typical wide spectrum of psychological problems manifesting after ten hour shifts free from my coping mechanisms, talismans, or anything like that.
To be brutally honest, I am directly trading my physical and mental well-being for money. That is exactly what performing the work feels like.
If you consider this valid and acceptable but have problems with strippers or sex workers, that’s really on you. For not drawing the appropriate parallels. Under capitalism, workers all sell our physical and mental health for the chance to live one more day.
RE: Feminine presentation
I do what I can to present in a very feminine way. It makes me feel better. Long hair, painted nails, sometimes makeup and lipstick, shaved legs, skirts, sometimes high heels…the works. I still feel like a swamp witch, but it helps me assert my femininity.
How I feel feminine, even if it is technically absorbing bullshit ideas about what it is to be feminine (For the longest time, being harassed by men helped reinforce my femininity. Glad I grew past that.), does not affect or alter my actions or commitment to ending the patriarchy and everything that supports it.
@Katie, Fran
Speaking of OT, I posted in the last open thread which seems to be defunct about having finished a short story that I’m gonna submit to a thing; I think/hope it’d be y’all’s tastes, and I’d like a few more sets of eyes on it before I actually send it in. It’s got my real name attached, so I’m leery of posting a link here, but if either of you’s interested, you can PM me on discord or email at my nym at gmx.us.
@Sandra: I really hope you’re not wearing those high heels while doing that work! You have my deepest sympathies– warehouse work ground down my uncle years ago, and I’m certain contributed to his death.
Here’s the main concern for me if people are singling out women who sub to male doms: if you insist that there’s something inherently patriarchal or problematic about it, you need to explain how all other forms of hetero sex are different.
Clue: they’re not. They’re just as culturally shaped and implicated.
Hence, again: none of these sexual practices are more or less feminist than the others. The logic that some are got feminism to a very bad place, way back in the ‘second wave’.
@ChimericMind
I actually lie about who I am to work. I use my deadname, still my legal name, and dress hyper-masculine for that. That’s one of the reasons work is so taxing for me mentally.
@Sandra
You’re into fantasy too, yes? I couldn’t recall; same goes for you if so.
I can highly recommend Dalillama’s story; especially to Mammotheers who like history and fantasy. Also the characters have cool names.
@ ignoresandra
Just stick the Ark of the Covenant on Ebay and you’ll never have to work again.
Random thought on the ridiculousness of “X is True Feminist Approved™, Y is not” – what about both X and Y? What about a switch*, or a woman who shaves her underarms but not her legs, or a woman who plays shooty-bang-bang video games but takes the occasional break from de-braining enemies to decorate her in-game son’s bedroom and wow it’s really obvious that I’m talking about myself here.
Point is. Do I get only get half True Feminist™ points, or is this an all-or-nothing deal, or what?
*Let’s just take a moment to giggle like schoolkids about Pokemon S&M and the Nintendo Switch. Those names were not focus tested and the world is greater for it.
On the topic of choices feminists make, I haven’t seen anyone share this. I found the “currents” analogy really helpful in thinking my way through it.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/choices-not-always-feminist/
@Chimeric Mind
I LOVE YOU FOREVER. Just for this statement alone. I know some of these insufferable types, and I keep struggling to find the right words to describe why they annoy me so much, and you have described them perfectly. 🙂 Thank you.
We should all register and make a game of writing dumber and dumberer allegories.
In fact I’m convinced someone’s already doing this – after all Conservapedia is full of trolls like that.