MGTOW Friday continues with this lovely meme, found in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit.
You’ll be happy to learn that most of the MGTOWs commenting on the meme do in fact believe that women are human, and possibly even deserving of some of the same rights as men.
“Women are human and have certain human rights,” says someone calling himself Whiskeybandit67. “They are assholes, but human.”
Ayy-Mayy-ZoSuperwoah, meanwhile, thinks it’s “twisted” to say that women aren’t human.
Yeah women don’t really contribute much value to humanity, but that doesn’t make them less than human. Whoever wrote this is deranged. Deprive them of the right to vote maybe, and maybe to work some jobs, in other words, strip some circumstantial privileges, but to strip them of human rights? Like what, exactly?
I guess this is what passes for a voice of reason on the MGTOW subreddit, huh?
My sympathy to all englishmen.
Doubly so in that I fear it will help May stay in power, even tho she is likely the least able people in all England to defeat terrorism.
“Transracial” ?
What the shit ?
Okay, that happened while I was sleeping, and I’m glad he got banned before I woke up. Anyways, while I’d never heard of “transracial” before (some of you sound like you have, is it some talking point I’ve somehow missed ?) the whole thing sounded really fucking familiar.
That was Mick Dash/Euroguy, wasn’t it ?
On a lighter note, my skin’s pretty white but my genealogy screams the opposite like I’m Jim Crow’s nightmare in camouflage whiteface. Does that make me “transracial” ? If so, from what did I transition and to what ? Also, there’s some Jewish ancestry not too far up the tree, does that change anything ?
Oh yeah, and of course the whole male-presenting agender business. Does that interact in any way with the transracial thing ?
SO MANY QUESTIONS that will never be answered, and that’s for the best.
@Fran
Hai there, I replied to you on page 9 but you probably missed it what with the speed this thread’s going, like I’d missed your previous reply until I went back and caught up.
Also
I don’t find it too hard to imagine they’d go the classic TERF route, especially since they love TERFs as they are the only feminists they don’t have to strawman too much to even start forming an argument.
@Sinkable John,
TERF was exactly what came to mind when I thought about this, too. MRAs could maybe accept transmen, as long as (or especially if) they lined up with the rhetoric, but not MGTOWs, imho 🙂
@Empress Fran,
Nothing in particular, just <3 <3 <3
@Valentine
Re: “A hand over the mouth inside my brain”. That is a strong image, beautifully worded. I expect that when you write, it’s very good. Like a lot of others here, I really liked your expression “releasing excitement”. You said something about putting the Russian expression into English. I come from a Ukrainian-speaking family (not me, wasn’t allowed, long story) and with one stellar exception, none of them have ever said anything half so charming in English. You have a gift.
I’m sorry for the bad thing that happened to you in 2015. I look forward to reading here, one day, that you have been writing more.
@KatieKitten420
I remember experiencing similar bi erasure 20 odd years ago. I’m sad but not surprised that it still happens. Internet hugs if you’d like them.
@Arctic Ape
Excellent use of quote.
GNU Terry Pratchett
@Everyone else
Much love and thoughts to London Mammotheers, from 50 miles south.
@ weatherwax
At first I thought that put you in the Channel, so I was “cool, an actual mermaid!”. But after a quick recalculation I’m guessing Brighton (or “Hove-Actually”). But it resonates a bit because I do associate London Bridge with day trips down there.
Sad day for me – I live less than 2 miles from where the latest terrorist attack in London has happened. I keep crying.
@ ellesar
Hugs if you need them.
Just when you think Trump can’t sink any lower, he’s now using last night’s attack to run the ‘if you have gun control they’ll only use knives’ argument. And slagging off our mayor generally.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/trump-berates-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-terror-attacks
Says a lot that this is the second time Sadiq Khan has had to say I’m too busy doing useful things to respond to Trump’.
Although this is true, I’m pretty sure the body count would have been higher if they’d had guns instead of knives.
@Francesca
HALT YOUR ENGINES. LOWER YOUR SHIELDS. WE WILL HAVE QUICK, CONSENSUAL, SEX. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE unless you use the safe word, WHICH IS PINEAPPLE. WE ARE THE TRANSWOMEN.
Transmen and transwomen:
I hadn’t thought of it that way. It makes sense though that trans men would get more respect. I have an old saying that I think applies to this… “When a woman imitates a man, her status goes up. When a man imitates a woman, his status goes down.” Setting aside for a second that trans folk are not imitators, this does point at what’s going on – that person looks like a man, so they get respect under patriarchy. That person looks like a woman, so they don’t get respect. And of course, a woman becoming a man is admirable because men are worthy of respect, but a man becoming a woman is not.
That trans men are women. There’s a venn diagram with 100% overlap between migtoes and white supremacists, plus the whole “There are only two genders” nonsense they often spout.
That said, trans men don’t have to worry about being beaten in the street. So I do envy their position.
@KatieKitten
I’ve seen it before. I just don’t have a reason why people would do it. Like so many other things, bisexual erasure makes no sense, and it’s hard for me to track and identify things that make no sense.
@Policy of Madness
The “Criminals will just use other weapons” form of non-arguing against gun control depends on willfully assigning no value to the fact that if the criminals were using almost any weapon aside from firearms, injuries and deaths would decrease dramatically.
In short, it’s republican bloodthirst at work. Nothing more or less.
@ POM
Exactly, and it’s also going to be much harder to fend off an attacker with bottles, chairs, and rugby tackles (as appears to have happened last night).
I think what’s particularly distasteful is Trump is exploiting last night for his own domestic policy agenda. He doesn’t actually give a fuck about British people. Arming the populace isn’t even a consideration here. We don’t even think about that. So he’s just cashing in on a tragedy in the most vulgar way; whilst completely dismissing anything the actual victims or people actually affected might feel about that.
ETA: it’s also a variation on the “Europeans bring this on themselves” argument, like with our immigration policies. Dog whistle victim blaming as well as exploitation of a tragedy.
@Alan Robertshaw
So….day to day operations for him? It sucks that he’s doing this, and the UK deserves better. Ugh. I don’t even know what to say right now.
Outside his tiny brain, nothing is real to him. He perceives everything through a filter of ME ME ME and I doubt he thinks of other people as being really people, but rather as props in his personal story. Giving a fuck about British people would require him to give a fuck about people generally, and he doesn’t.
@John
To my knowledge, only one person has ever seriously claimed to be transracial. She was the center of some controversy in a town near me when it was discovered that she was actually white and had been lying about her race. She was the president of that town’s NAACP chapter at the time.
Here’s an interview with her: http://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/04/19/25082450/the-heart-of-whiteness-ijeoma-oluo-interviews-rachel-dolezal-the-white-woman-who-identifies-as-black
Transracial went bigly with a recent Hypatia article that amounted to JAQing off about transgender versus transracial, and how can we tell these two concepts apart, they must be the same … while ignoring any prior literature on the subject.
The usual suspects (Dawkins et al) came to the defense of the poor put-upon assistant prof who wrote the shitty article, and lay it on thick with allusions of impropriety from the people who condemned the article and the editorial process that accepted it.
Meanwhile, over on /r/MGTOW/ a guy posted about how great masturbation is and how superior it is to women, and he has 3 whole comments, one of which is “WTF.”
Short version, it started with a really gross strawman that South Park made up and transphobes have been parroting ever since. In the episode, Mr Garrison transitions into a woman (because being gay and being trans are exactly the same), Kyle “Transitions” into a black basketball player (exactly the same!) and Kyle’s father “Transitions” into a fucking dolphin (exactly the saaame!!!11), then all three “Admit” that trans don’t real and trans people are just [string of transphobic and ableist slurs including copious use of the word “Mutilated”]. And this is all supposed to be hilarious for some reason.
Feel free to puke now.
@ POM
I think you’re spot on there. It’s like the antithesis of “treat people as ends not means”. I got that same vibe when he claimed the Kathy Griffin thing had upset Bannon. It just didn’t feel like genuine concern. You’ve articulated what I thought was ‘off’. It was that he was just using a kid as a prop.
@Policy of Madness
So, a man actually does go his own way, and the MGTOW subreddit cares nothing for it. Hypocrites.
@IgnoreSandra
Exactly. Of course, his post is full of gendered slurs and stereotypes, but at least he’s actually trying to GHOW.
@lysisrata
Yay! Thank you so much ))) i am very sorry you didnt get to speak Ukrainian before now. But if it help, i am also not very good – my family russian ? little bit political now about this but what can i do? I dont know if i will share my writings ever but thank you for your words! I think you should teach yourself speak ukrainian. No one can stop you now!
@Policy of Madness
Yeah. At this point, I don’t seriously think anyone currently involved with MGTOW will stop being a misogynist.
But here’s the thing: I don’t care if they cry into their beer with their other misogynist asswipe friends in someone’s crummy living room. That doesn’t bother me.
What bothers me is when misogynists have enough power to influence in any way my life or the lives of other women. Men wanting to grope me is their problem, men being able to grope me is my problem.
@ IgnoreSandra
Those are two sides of the same coin, though. If every misogynist dude kept it to himself, he would think he is alone in the world and fear social sanction for acting on his misogyny. When they get together in an echo chamber where there are several hundred misogynists, all of whom are being totally open about their misogyny, the individual misogynists get the idea that everyone agrees with them, stop fearing social sanction, and start acting on their ideas.
Nobody can stop a misogynist from being a misogynist, but we can stop them from thinking it’s A-OK and that all other men have the same opinions. This is way harder when they use their forums to reinforce one another, so I think it’s valid to be concerned about /r/MGTOW and others.