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“Are Women Really Human?” asks the MGTOW meme of the day

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MGTOW Friday continues with this lovely meme, found in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit.

You’ll be happy to learn that most of the MGTOWs commenting on the meme do in fact believe that women are human, and possibly even deserving of some of the same rights as men.

“Women are human and have certain human rights,” says someone calling himself Whiskeybandit67. “They are assholes, but human.”

Ayy-Mayy-ZoSuperwoah, meanwhile, thinks it’s “twisted” to say that women aren’t human.

Yeah women don’t really contribute much value to humanity, but that doesn’t make them less than human. Whoever wrote this is deranged. Deprive them of the right to vote maybe, and maybe to work some jobs, in other words, strip some circumstantial privileges, but to strip them of human rights? Like what, exactly?

I guess this is what passes for a voice of reason on the MGTOW subreddit, huh?

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Bit o/t but we watched the ‘One Love’ Manchester concert earlier tonight. Now obviously how people choose to deal with the aftermath to that horrible event is entirely their own business. There’s no ‘correct’ approach to grieving or reacting.

I was though so happy to see all the young kids. Especially the ones down the front as they were from the original gig. There were obviously tears, but it was so uplifting to see the kids also enjoying themselves. It’s always a fine balance between respecting victims but not being being intimidated by evil doers. I think this got it just right.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
3 years ago

I shall contribute by limiting my cunnilingus references to 3/year.

Edit: This comment does NOT count.

IgnoreSandra
IgnoreSandra
3 years ago

@Francesca

weโ€™re gonna have to have a Magical Girl Duel in the tennis court after school.

This sounds like fun. Count me in! I’ll bring my shortest, most neon skirt.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Sir Alan

Personally, that was the response I was hoping for, so I agree with you entirely on that front.

The ethos of the attackers is to frighten people into not going outside and having fun with others, so if you really want to show them that they’ve failed at their objective, you carry on with what you enjoy.

I really think the new concert was the best example of showing pure contempt for the people who organized the attack, and, of course, it was done with the impeccable classiness I expect from my allies across the Atlantic.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Fran -shucks, go on witcha now!

@Imaginary Petal – that’s 1!

(j/k you get a Mulligan on that)

ETA darn it you edited before I could spit out my hilarious joke! ๐Ÿ˜‚

@Alan – I saw today that Ariana performed in Manchester (along with several others) and that many of the fans from her previous show got in for free. I really admire that she was able to pull herself together and be able to perform when it has only been two weeks since that tragedy happened.

She also visited with injured fans still in the hospital.

Good for her. Well done, Ariana.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Petal

This comment does NOT count

Of course not. It doesn’t have a tongue out emoji ๐Ÿ˜›

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

comment image

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Obviously i read Idiot, crime & punishment on russian but i also try Idiot on english – little bit challenging but i complete it. I think it wrong to say that Dostoyevsky can not be translated with success. His skill is in having many characters, clear philosophy and detail description – there is no english writier that can do this? With help of translator? And what about all english books translate on russian? It stupid to say this not possible – and also strange. It another language only not something magical – all can be translated and understand. Think of all languages put on english for you to enjoy – it possible and easy! I sorry you read a bad translate of Dostoyevsky- but that because who made it was not skilled not because it not possible or ‘too russian’. That’l is bullshit. Sorry (((

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
3 years ago

Gotta be on point with the edits here. ๐Ÿ™‚

JS
JS
3 years ago

As someone once said, Shakespeare is much better in the original Klingon.

Trying to think of English authors (not necessarily “good”) with tons of characters and stuff… David Weber, maybe? JRR Tolkien, IF you read the massive backstory he also wrote for the Lord of the Rings. Maybe the guy who wrote “Wizard’s First Rule” (Goodkind). GRR Martin who has probably killed more well developed characters than most.

Any more “way too many characters” authors?

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@Valentine,

Totally agree with you on Dostoyevsky. I guess it all depends on the translator but he’s eminently readable in English, as are other Russian authors.
I had to respond because your comment reminded me of one of my literary crushes, Robert Dessaix. He’s an Australian writer and linguist, and a passionate fan of Russian literature. He also has exquisite taste in socks ๐Ÿ˜€

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Valentine
@All

Robin Hobb does some really good medieval fantasy. Her books are every bit as adult in nature as GRRM’s, mind you, which is why I always found it odd nobody wanted to adapt her Liveship cycle to film or TV.

I particularly like the Liveship Traders books she wrote: it has everything I like: magic ships that can speak and move through their figureheads, dragons, pirates, impossibly beautiful heroines, hard, powerful heroes with athletic physiques, and so on.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

I got about halfway through The Idiot before I had to give up. I typically read before bed so the incredibly dry translation kept putting me to sleep. I’ll research good translators and try again at some point, but I’ve got a bit of a backlog of other stuff right now. ๐Ÿ™‚

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

@Valentine
Embarrassingly enough, I tried to read Tolstoy’s War and Peace when I was sixteen but had to give it up because I couldn’t keep track of the characters. Everyone had several Russian nicknames that I couldn’t tie to the original name. Probably nowadays there are websites to help the reader.

I’m not sure I’m ready to try that tome again, but at sixteen I did try.

epitome of incomprehensibility

(*waves hand timidly*) I’m here to defend James Joyce as being creative, funny, and self-deprecating! And Chessman said that women never defend men!

This is more personal than intellectual, but A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man was important to me when I was 17 and trying to reconcile my being-a-writer idea with other stuff.

A couple of years later, when I realized, “Hey, Stephen Dedalus [main character] turns out to be a fucking snob,” I read Joyce’s Ulysses and discovered that the author was making fun of his self-insert character in his earlier book for, yes, being a huge snob! ๐Ÿ˜€

Plus, while I found (and still find) long Victorian novels hard to plow through, I could read 700-page Ulysses – where each chapter changes style – with relatively little trouble. Or, at least, I found it fun enough to be worth the challenge. I don’t know whether this has something to do with my ADHD or just my taste/sense of humour.

Serious side note: it’s true that one of the reasons why Joyce got early critical adulation – over, say H.D. or Zora Neale Hurston or Gertrude Stein or Suzanne and Aime Cesaire – was because he was a white dude and not too different from The Establishment. The fact that he wasn’t racist, misogynistic, or homophobic – or a fucking fascist like Ezra Pound – is good for his reputation now, but he wouldn’t have built up that reputation as easily if he hadn’t been a white guy.

-Your Local Joycean Fangirl, the Epitome of Incomprehensibility

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

A bloke goes for a job on a building site. The foreman asks him: “Do you know the difference between a joist and a girder?”. The bloke replies: “Joist wrote Ulysses and Girder wrote Faust.”

(Why yes, that is my coat.)

Cynical Optimist, Vapid Dreck Aggregator
Cynical Optimist, Vapid Dreck Aggregator
3 years ago

*Sees everyone talking out problems like mature people*

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/3423/2921100-thatsrad.gif

mz emoji riesling
mz emoji riesling
3 years ago

I hit the wall, in terms of finishing this thread, and it looks like most of the points I wanted to make were already made, but I did want to say something to Valentine about writing.
Valentine, it’s possible that the block you are experiencing could be a way of working things out and that you will come roaring back with maybe even a noticeable improvement in the quality.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

Others are making a sacrifice, so I will too.

I will post excerpts from my erotic epic poem about Brad Pitt — nemesis of the MRM — only once a month.

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

Aw, I was sort of hoping this thread would let itself rest at 666 posts. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

JS
JS
3 years ago

We could try and stop at 678 … cha cha cha?

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@mz emoji

Thank you )) i didnt think about that. I hope that will happen. I think other people here also have same experience like if you have to write it will just come, and if not sometomes you must wait. I getting little bit tired of waiting ๐Ÿ˜ but i hope only temporary

@kat
Honestly, i not like tolstoy. At all ))) he little bit boring and also out of touch with common people. If you read about him, he self-important aristocrat. I don’t like that people put him together with Dostoyevsky- they very differnet. But if nick name troubling you i understand- some other people say this me before. But yes there plenty of website to help with this and also translators put also inside. Good ones anyway ))) once you learn the sysyem can be quite easy.

@kupo
Idiot is my favourite book of all books. I sorry your translation was not good. Please try again! I hope you will enjoy because i always thinking about this book. But i little bit obsessibe about this thing. ๐Ÿ˜

@Mish
I glad )) people try to tell that he difficult but i sure they just find bad translation Dostoyevsky and that make them think he boring or hard to read. Before now there was this idea that some thing, like some poetry just was ‘too russian’ for translate. But this just bullshit ๐Ÿ˜

@fran
I not usually reading fantasy. Or history ๐Ÿ™ˆ but i read lord of the rings before. And i try to read game of thrones, but i dont enjoy really. I know he making lots of characters but seems like he not know what to do and i lost little bit what was happening. Perfect example of how to write lots of characters good is in Idiot (again) when Ippolit reading his suicide note.

ChimericMind
ChimericMind
3 years ago

Art notes:

Wonder Woman was quite good, and I thought that transposing her introductory story to WW1 (instead of WW2) was a very interesting choice. The characters were solid, and overall things were very true to the original series where that was a good thing, and showed discretion about avoiding the bad things (like turning Eta Candy into a likable character rather than ridiculously obnoxious one-dimensional joke that she was in the comics). They also picked the best, truest-to-Greek version of her outfit (the late 50’s version), upgraded it to an even more realistic version (without allowing the Snyders to de-saturate the hell out of its colors), made her fight scenes FANTASTIC, and had an absolutely awesome lesson in the climax that deconstructed a major fantasy trope (I’ll avoid spoilers). Overall, I was very pleased.

For good authors with a tendency towards “too many characters”, I might suggest the late great Terry Pratchett. He will forever remain my favorite author, and I highly recommend him. However, there are a LOT of characters in the Discworld series (his main one). This gets made manageable by different books focusing on different character “sets” (the City Watch, the Witches, Death & family, Rincewind and whoever he’s fleeing from now), with occasional cameos from someone from another character set. He also took awhile to really hit his stride with the series– some of the standalone masterpieces I would really recommend to a curious first-time reader would be Small Gods, Reaper Man, and The Truth. Oh, and by the way, he’s also absolutely hilarious, but that doesn’t detract at all from the dramatic moments.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@ChimericMind,

Why did you have to mention Sir Pterry and Discworld? Why?
Must. Resist. Gushing.

I came to the series late, via Neil Gaiman, and I’m just so in love with it. Facebook fan group, and all the ridiculous “which actor do you think would make the best Vimes/Granny/Tiffany” type conversations.

Re the multiple characters – Turtle Recall is a great reference book to keep handy ๐Ÿ™‚

guest
guest
3 years ago

I also wanted to step up to thank Francesca for handling a challenge in a gracious manner, instead of (as is much more typical online) having a meltdown or ignoring it. I was thinking last night ‘if this is now a blog about kinky sexual RPs, I will find another blog to read’; if it isn’t, I hope I can continue to learn from all of you.

guest
guest
3 years ago

@ChimericMind I saw WW last night, and completely missed the lesson–could you share it in rot-13?

ChimericMind
ChimericMind
3 years ago

I don’t know what “rot-13” is, I’m sorry…

Collateral Thought
Collateral Thought
3 years ago

Ah bother. Spoiler tags don’t work here. Deleting everything!

Insert:

Wonder Woman is a fabulous movie. I don’t wish to spoil any of it.

OK, I see the point of ROT-13 in this context. It’s too late though and I lack spoons.

I do encourage any and all here to see the movie though.

KatieKitten420
KatieKitten420
3 years ago

@Fran, Dalillama, everyone else
Firstly, after reading the comments of the number of people I will make sure the preface any comments that mention sex with “explicit TMI” or something of the sort.

Fran&Dalillama, honestly I think we agree. I’m only overt in my interest for anyone of any gender if I am positive the person desires it. I’m too insecure to be otherwise. Flirting and being forward on the internet is much easier than IRL. And I don’t think I qualify as a chaser cuz while it is something that I find attractive, I also find tall slender cis women in sexy dresses attractive and tiny petite women that are curvy in sexy dresses attractive. I think the link is the sexy dresses. But nowadays I’m attracted to intelligence, personality and passion much more than I’m attracted to looks in any gender( I’m not going to lie though, good looks are definitely attractive delicious frosting on a wonderful personality cake.

@Fran, maybe TMI for anyone else.
I’m totally willing to kneel for you while you put a sexy golden collar on me if I’m not misquoting you. (Sorry if I’m being too forward or flirty I’ve never met another black girl truly into BDSM and it gave me tingles. I guess we really are unicorns and unicorns are awesome) as a matter of fact a vocal minority of feminists of many races seem to think my desire to be very feminine and submissive is not properly feminist.

@Everyone TMI over. I don’t know how to take people’s words and put them into the little boxes like everyone else does. I’m completely computer illiterate, all I use is a phone and my Kindle.
@Fran And you like Robin Hobb! I adore Robin Hobb I’ve read every single one of her books. The most recent farseer trilogy was the best, I think. It was some of the most original Fantasy I’ve read in a while and I literally sobbed through the end. I also love the liveship series and she manages to combine the two series together into one in the last book of the last farseer trilogy(there are three farseer Trilogy all total, just in case you aren’t aware)We really do seem to have a lot in common, maybe we should drop acid and hang out if you’re ever in NYC๐Ÿ˜œ I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend and is ready for Monday. I work at night so I have to get to bed. Good day everybody.

JS
JS
3 years ago

Typing http://i.imgur.com/C7Y4B60.png results in

Like this

I hope that worked…

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

JS how to imbed picture without the link for jpg website? Like if i want to put picture from my phone. It possible?

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Katie

@Fran, maybe TMI for anyone else.
Iโ€™m totally willing to kneel for you while you put a sexy golden collar on me if Iโ€™m not misquoting you. (Sorry if Iโ€™m being too forward or flirty Iโ€™ve never met another black girl truly into BDSM and it gave me tingles.

Not at all. I quite enjoy that!

I guess we really are unicorns and unicorns are awesome) as a matter of fact a vocal minority of feminists of many races seem to think my desire to be very feminine and submissive is not properly feminist.

This is my life.

“Don’t do the thing,” said the people, with very Stern Disapproval. “Proper folk don’t do these things.”

Fran continued to do the thing anyway.

Personally, I think people should be allowed to enjoy things. You enjoy this and maintain respect for yourself at the same time.

For what it’s worth, I think you are valid and awesome.

We really do seem to have a lot in common, maybe we should drop acid and hang out if youโ€™re ever in NYC

And you’re nearby me, to a certain extent. I live in Long Island, which to you must be like the “HERE BE DRAGONS” part of old medieval maps.

I will make it a point to do this.

JS
JS
3 years ago

I think I mentioned it earlier, but you take your http: line from the image link, and just put it straight in to the text box. No additional html magic required just a bare link ending in “.jpg”, “.png”, or “.gif”. No quote marks, no img tags, just the link by itself. Oh, what the heck, give me a few minutes to put an image together ๐Ÿ˜›
Assuming your picture is at the site http://www.site.com at the root directory, and named test.gif
http://i.imgur.com/iGKcyCg.png
will embed it in place.

I hope…

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

Haven’t read all 14 pages yet, but responding to this on the front…

@Flora:

To further the โ€œnot even wrong,โ€ culture is not a defining feature of humanity, or even primates. Orcas, dolphins and whales have culture. Elephants have culture. Sparrows have culture. Rats have culture.

Heck, Prairie dogs have culture.

Prairie dogs have language. People who have studied their vocalizations for years have been able to identify a basic grammar. “Run, there’s a hawk” shares elements but has differences from “Run, there’s a human.”

Prairie dogs have dialects. Different warrens will use different terms for the same things, but are almost entirely consistent within each warren.

This is entirely cultural. A prairie dog born to parents from one warren but growing up in a different warren will learn the dialect of the warren it grew up in.

The more we learn about the rest of the world, the more we realize that we really aren’t all that special. Which I suppose is reason enough for some folks to hate science.

ChimericMind
ChimericMind
3 years ago

Okay, I’ll try:

Gur gebcr jnf “Xrlfgbar Nezl”, gur vqrn gung vs lbh qrsrng gur urnq onq thl, vg nhgbzngvpnyyl raqf gur jne naq rirelbar’f unccl naq avpr.

guest
guest
3 years ago

@ChimericMind Awesome, thank you for pointing that out. I don’t think I’ve run into that idea as a trope (I don’t read much fantasy), but it is a good broader point to make. (Though I’m not entirely sure I agree with it!)

N sevraq bs zvar, jura nfxrq jul Ratynaq naq gur HF frrz gb unir tbar bss gur envyf, ercyvrq jvgu guerr jbeqf–Zheqbpu Zheqbpu Zheqbpu. Crbcyr znl abg or anghenyyl ‘avpr’, ohg n ybg bs hf pna rnfvyl or fjnlrq ol rkcregf va cflpubybtl naq pbzzhavpngvba gb qb fbzr irel abg-avpr guvatf. Frr Sbhpnhyg sbe fbzr vqrnf nobhg ubj gur orfg jnl gb ‘pbageby’ crbcyr, naq trg gurz gb qb jung lbh jnag, vf gb znantr gurve raivebazrag, cnegvphyneyl gurve vasbezngvba raivebazrag–V qvq n cncre nobhg guvf bapr….

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

IgnoreSandra:

I find it difficult to believe this was ever a thing. Not your experience, the whole bisexual erasure thing. Mostly because thereโ€™s no actual reason for anyone to doubt or erase bisexuality.

I figure it’s just gender essentialism raised to the next level. Male vs. Female –> Hetero vs. Homo. (Or even Cis vs. Trans; a lot of the nastier comments Fran was referring look like people trying to be essentialist on that level.)

Some people are just more comfortable with nice firm divisions where everything is either on one side or the other. Even admitting to eight boxes is better to them than admitting that there might be people that don’t fit into any of them.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

weโ€™re gonna have to have a Magical Girl Duel in the tennis court after school.

Reminds me of this image:

http://v013o.popscreen.com/eGl0OXZwMTI=_o_the-slayers-next-bitter-curve-balls-gutsy-fast-balls.jpg

(From Slayers: NEXT. Both characters are sorceresses, and there was one episode that did indeed involve a tennis tournament where you had to have magical abilities to activate the ‘racket’ and be able to knock the ‘ball’ around. The ‘blonde’ one on the right is named Martina Naburachirowa, so you just KNEW a tennis match was going to come up at some point…)

HeroBlue
HeroBlue
3 years ago

Not human? Who wrote this… If we aren’t human, then I vote that we pee on his carpets and the seats of his car.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Sinkable John

Iโ€™m still waiting to meet the gay agender.

Which one? I know loads.

Pavlovs House
Pavlovs House
3 years ago

Wow, comments really explode in numbers on WHTM nowadays! I cannot keep up with you all. I don’t know, how you all do it. I did read through all the pages on that other recent gigantic one that got up to 741 but there’s no way I can do it with this one. Each time some little side-thread comes up that picks my interest, before I can reply the conversation has completely moved on to something else!

On the other hand, it’s really interesting for me in that a lot of people here talk about fiction characters, etc. that I know nothing about. So it’s interesting to hear about new stuff. I’m not a gamer and don’t watch a lot of movies or all the popular series, etc. so you all make all these cultural references that I never get but that remind me there’s a whole world of fiction out there to enjoy if I ever get the time. Plus there are some REALLY freakin’ creative people among us.

Also it’s nice to read people who are being assertive about their identity. Good for all of you!

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

@HeroBlue

Not human? Who wrote thisโ€ฆ If we arenโ€™t human, then I vote that we pee on his carpets and the seats of his car.

Direct action! I vote yes.

HiddenTurtle
HiddenTurtle
3 years ago

@Valentine

(long time lurker,)

Just wanted to chime in to say that I’ve actually greatly enjoyed a lot of the English translation of Russian lit (granted, as I speak no Russian, I don’t have that point of comparison). I took a Russian short stories class, and also found Tolstoy to be rather boring and long winded, even in short story form. I rather like a lot of Dostoevsky’s (“White Nights” especially), and Chekov is just a master of concise detail. My favorite was Gogol, though, so I hope the translations are doing his fantastic oddness justice. I used to teach “The Overcoat” (and one of my college profs took a group of us to this play that was a mix of his stories set to the occasional musical stylings of Gogol Bordello) when I was TAing a short stories class, because I just wanted them all to read it and think it was amazing. They generally didn’t :/

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@hidden turtle

Sorry your students dont enjoy Gogol. Did they like Gogol Bordello though? ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ˜‰

HiddenTurtle
HiddenTurtle
3 years ago

That was when I was undergrad, but I rather enjoyed it!

To be fair, almost all of the stories I assigned were depressing as hell. And I think they wanted it to be a sci-fi/fantasy writing class, so they didn’t so much love reading all these stories with people dying and working boring jobs like regular people.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

I dont like fantasy or science fiction. I would like this books which you assign! I like little bit stuff where it normal but then something strange going on – like master & margarita. I dont know if that same like science fiction or not.

Lysistrata
Lysistrata
3 years ago

Ooh, I love The Master and Margarita

It’s not science fiction, but I think it qualifies as fantasy.

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

@Valentine:
Have you read Jonathon Strange & Mr Norrell? It’s excellent, and has the “mostly normal but with weird stuff” thing that you describe. One potential problem is that it’s set in 19th century England (and is a wonderful parody of the genre tropes of that period’s novels); if you aren’t familiar with the setting then that might make it harder.

HiddenTurtle
HiddenTurtle
3 years ago

M & M is on my to-read list (which is like 500 books long and constantly growing). Have you read any magical realism? I can’t get into much fantasy/SF myself – I love my Harry Potter, because I think they’re really good and making the fantasy/sci-fi bits secondary to the characters and story, rather than the opposite. I’m not interested in reading 300 pages of you building a world – I want to read about what’s going on in it! 90% of my reading is adolescent lit, though, and the other part is mostly memoirs and stuff about mental health. I find that a lot of stuff written for adults just seems harder to connect to, for me.