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Overcome lust by imagining women as chopped-up body parts, MGTOW of the Day recommends

This technique does not work for everyone

One of the little stumbling blocks faced by would-be Men Going Their Own Way is that it’s hard for straight dudes to free themselves from the influence of evil women if all they do is think about how much they want to have sex with said evil women.

And so you’ll occasionally find MGTOWs asking one another what they can do to lessen their terrible lusts. And the answers are often quite horrifying — longtime WHTM readers may recall legendary MGTOW Christopher of Oregon’s lengthy disquisitions on the (alleged) unspeakable smelly horrors of the vagina, for example.

Well, he’s not the only one trying to replace sexy thoughts with grotesque ones. Consider this lust-destroying advice from today’s MGTOW of the Day, fresh from a discussion in the MGTOW subreddit.

bitter_samsara 7 points 7 hours ago This isn't for everyone, but one technique is to visualize each body part and fluid separately for what it is. For example, a butt which can look beautiful but imagine the bones, sinew, meat, blood. There is poop that inside, which smells really bad. These things are just organized in such a way that the form appears to be pleasing, but in reality it's disgusting. Visualize those separate things being combined to make a butt, but see those for what they are. If you're not faint of heart, you can see the reality of how disgusting the human body is through autopsies, but really this isn't necessary unless you've decided this is a good technique for you.

This is actually a variation of an ancient Buddhist technique — no, really — but when combined with the intense misogyny of the MGTOWs it’s decidedly less than enlightened.

Straight women, naturally, have it much easier when it comes to the whole lust quenching thing: All they have to do to kill any lust they feel towards a particular man is to imagine that he’s a MGTOW. Works every time!

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ sinkable john

having sex is a good way to wear off the rest of the alcohol sickness.

Er, I’ll have to take your word for that. I’m usually “There’s a bucket, there’s a bottle of Lucozade, there’s a bottle of mouthwash. Give me a shout when the bucket’s full and the bottles are empty.”

@ dreemr

I first saw him in that thing with Laura Dern and I thought he was brilliant. Having said that, I quite like all the cheesy ‘paying off that tax bill’ stuff he does now.

Reminds me of Michael Caine (who reads the fee before the script). Someone said Jaws 4 wasn’t a very good film. He said “No, but it bought a very nice house”.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
3 years ago

(Johnny Depp is another actor that was widely praised in his earlier years who has since fallen into “hack” territory).

What’s Eating Gilbert Grape? looks like a great film. I’ve only seen clips so far but the acting quality from Depp and especially DiCaprio is impressive. Hell, Leonardo should have gotten his Oscar twenty five years ago just for the role of Arnie.

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Very late to the party, but I wanted to reiterate the others who have commented that “release excitement” is a charming way of saying it.

In fact, awww, charming is the exact word that popped into my head…what a wonderful turn of phrase!

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

@Alan

They still need you by their side in case they throw up again though.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@WWTH: Always! *starts humming soundtrack*

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@sunnysombrero – definitely check out What’s Eating Gilbert Grape? It’s very good, and DiCaprio really is incredible in it. At the time, Depp’s blonde-streaked hair annoyed me (!) but he is very good and I have always really enjoyed Juliette Lewis in whatever she chooses to do.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ sinkable john

They still need you by their side in case they throw up again though.

Heh yeah, with one particular gf it’s like “What’s your favourite position in bed?”

“Recovery”

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Leonardo Dicaprio is a good actor, but I can’t stand him. He just seems so extra sleazy. I actually surprised that MGTOW and MRAs don’t fixate on him as the only alpha male that can get sex instead of Brad Pitt. Brad is better looking, I think but he’s a serial monogamist. He’s not really known as a huge womanizer. Leo, on the other hand dates a succession of twenty something blonde models even though he’s in his 40s. He’s the one living the manosphere dream but he never seems to be a target of envy and hate for them for some reason.

I’ve just always found that strange.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Re. Excitement 😁
What is happening here?))) I sleeping and when i awaken i am press Secretary for WHTM? Iam honoured! But really i just translate how i say normally on russian ‘я возбужденный’)

Kimstu
Kimstu
3 years ago

@A Rose for Emily:

I was going to point out that it’s almost verbatim a Buddhist technique. Which makes slightly more sense when you consider that monks are not only called to celibacy, but that a primary objective of Buddhism is to eliminate “craving” of every kind.

Yup, and the same sort of argument has a very long history in Christian theology as well. Here’s the 4th-century St. John Chrysostom’s letter to Theodore (www.newadvent.org/fathers/1903.htm) on how to get over his crush on a woman called Hermione:

I know that you are now admiring the grace of Hermione, and you judge that there is nothing in the world to be compared to her comeliness; but if you choose, O friend, you shall yourself exceed her in comeliness and gracefulness, as much as golden statues surpass those which are made of clay. For if beauty, when it occurs in the body, so fascinates and excites the minds of most men, when the soul is refulgent with it what can match beauty and grace of this kind? For the groundwork of this corporeal beauty is nothing else but phlegm, and blood, and humor, and bile, and the fluid of masticated food. For by these things both eyes and cheeks, and all the other features, are supplied with moisture; and if they do not receive that moisture, daily skin becoming unduly withered, and the eyes sunken, the whole grace of the countenance immediately vanishes; so that if you consider what is stored up inside those beautiful eyes, and that straight nose, and the mouth and the cheeks, you will affirm the well-shaped body to be nothing else than a whited sepulchre; the parts within are full of so much uncleanness.

MGTOWs often act so proud of their “creativity” or “originality” in coming up with various justifications for misogyny which in reality are deeply embedded in the historical mainstream of patriarchal culture.

Overly Long Name
Overly Long Name
3 years ago

I need to catch up on the comments but i figured i’d say “how to raise a feminist son” is trending on twitter because of a New York Times comic with that name, and the twitter feed is exactly what you would expect.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@weatherwax

*Hilarious misunderstanding regarding the Archers which refuses to copy/paste for me*

Some years ago, there was a shower sex scene which scandalised much of the listenership. Surely that’s roughly analogous to sex in an MRI. If memory serves, it was Sid and Jolene (which shows how long ago it was).

Lol, they should do that again just to spice things up. Radio shows can get boring sometimes.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@JS

Fair enough! I know when I am fairly beaten. D

@Diptych

Thank you. Admittedly, since you appear to be familiar with the erotic cross-section thing, I suppose my interest isn’t as niche as I feared.

It seems to show up in fiction, as well. I recall reading an erotic novel in which the author vividly described the fine muscle contractions within her character’s vagina during penetration, which, I suppose, is as close as you’ll get to a text-version of the same.

@Prophet

Quite so! Just another day at the Mammoth, as it were.

@Kat

Thank you!

[guiltily climbs out of the can]

@Fishy Goat

Some of us pagan/ wiccan folk (current and former) have certainly made cracks about such things in moments of despair.

Well – and this is the thing I find so refreshing about the Norse Asatruar path – our equivalent to burning people in wicker men and slitting their throats in groves is to merely assemble your army and fleet and face down your opponents in glorious battle under the eyes of the Aesir and Vanir.

I say refreshing, because Asatru doesn’t fuck around. We don’t spend time pretending our Gods and Goddesses are nice and loving 24/7. Even our sex Goddess, Freya, is a war goddess in her own right.

That’s not to say we aren’t peaceful. We prefer peace, and the Eddas clearly state that peace is preferable to war; however, we won’t hesitate to put up a fight.

In a nutshell, our religion dictates that Odin commanded us to be born on Earth to lead the battle against harmful forces. Earth is merely one of the many cosmic battlefields and we are part of his army.

I’m strictly going by what the Icelandic branches of Asatru (called Forn Sed) dictate. Fittingly enough, we Asatruar don’t get along with all of our kin: we have been infiltrated by American and continental European cis-het white supremacists who call themelves Odinists, and this is weird because interracial God/Jotun sex and what could be called instances of transgender life are quite explicitly alluded to in what passes as the holy books for our belief, the Prose and Poetic Eddas.

So we make war on each other as well. I envy Wiccans; they’re all so nice, whereas we warlike, battle-ready Asatruar make war on each other and form tiny factions and argue and squabble. I suppose that’s why we aren’t very popular – well, that and the white supremacists contaminating our ranks.

I suppose this pleases Odin and he thinks that we should sharpen up our combat skills on each other, just as how his personal warriors, the Einherjari, fight every day to the dead on the fields outside of Valhalla.

If you guys want to read more about this from an actual Icelandic Forn Sed priestess who is a blonde, white woman (I only say this because her attributes give her authority over the white supremacist Asatruar) that I have personally spoken to, go here:

odsmal.org

Anyway, so, yes.

Since you Wiccans jest about wicker men, I suppose my equivalent would be that I shall have to send word to Lady Bina and Sir Alan. Lady Bina will deploy my Imperial Fleet from its port in Iceland to surround the United States, so that nothing can leave the country.

Sir Alan shall lead a detachment of soldiers to D.C. and challenge Trump to single combat to decide the fate of the United States. This is called a Holmgang; it was the acceptable manner of settling disputes in medieval Scandinavia.

I have no doubt in my mind that Sir Alan shall deliver to me the ‘United States’, as these Americans call it, to me within the hour.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

challenge Trump to single combat to decide the fate of the United States.

Well, I do like a scrap. I’ll practice my blood eagle skills.

The Wicker Man idea would help me solve a problem. Some friends want to set up a pagan law firm. But that might fall foul of our Equalty Act. However if we can say it’s a ‘genuine occupational requirement’ then we’re ok. So introducing the odd bit of human sacrifice might cover that. And ‘alternative dispute resolution’ is very much encouraged these days.

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo

@ WWTH

No to mention that DiCaprio was the leader of a group called the Pussy Posse.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

As Leonardo DiCaprio is the poster boy for Birkenhead Drill, surely the MRAs think he’s a ‘cuck’?

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Alan

Well said. I expected nothing less from the expert tactician who commands my Northern Army.

When historians write about your heroic deeds this day, they will describe you in the same glowing language that they describe William the Conqueror’s landfall.

I will embroider a large tapestry depicting your campaign against the Red Hats and the Lord of the Red Hat Host, Domnhall Drumpf, and we shall hang it below the Bayeux Tapestry.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

As much fun as it is to visualize the sheer ghastliness of this, um, fellow’s suggestion, I think it’s worth pointing out that it relies entirely on the magnetic butt assumption inherent in Manosphere thinking going all the way back to Warren Farrell’s Myth Of Male Power. Those poor dopey men are just slaves to women’s hinders and only the power of remembering that poop sometimes emerges from it can break that devilish hold.

Hmmm, anybody suggested that to Farrell himself? Might make for a better cover for the next edition of his book: women’s butts on toilets. Break its hold on you, men, break its hold!

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Overly Long Name – well, that was stomach-churning, possibly due to the constant eye-rolling I had to do.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

I expected nothing less from the expert tactician who commands my Northern Army.

“Amateurs think tactics; professionals think logistics

But thank you for the honour; I’ll try to do you justice.

Speaking of accounts of 1066, it’s now been established that a chronicle that was thought to date to some decades after the battle is actually pretty much contemporary. It’s fascinating reading with that in mind. There was a great three part documentary/drama about it recently. I’ll try to see if it’s available on line anywhere. You might enjoy it.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Gussie

Those poor dopey men are just slaves to women’s hinders

So, erm…er…you’re saying that they like big butts and they cannot lie?

Sorry, I’ll see myself out. :X

@Alan

I would be more than happy to view it, thank you. You’ve done a splendid job recommending me things to watch thus far.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@WWTH

Leonardo Dicaprio is a good actor, but I can’t stand him. He just seems so extra sleazy. I actually surprised that MGTOW and MRAs don’t fixate on him as the only alpha male that can get sex instead of Brad Pitt.

Ohh I was going to say that. He’s an amazing actor but I am disappointed by the way he leads his private life. As an actor he presents himself as a classy and elegant gentleman but he’s so trashy in real life.

Brad is better looking, I think but he’s a serial monogamist. He’s not really known as a huge womanizer.

True, Brad is actually pretty chill. He only dated 2 women in the past 17 years, that’s a really low number for a Top class actor and celebrity.

Leo, on the other hand dates a succession of twenty something blonde models even though he’s in his 40s. He’s the one living the manosphere dream but he never seems to be a target of envy and hate for them for some reason.

And he’s gonna keep doing it until his looks are going to allow him to. Just like George Clooney. He womanized until he reached his fifties and young girls stopped swarming around him. Then he settled down.
I’m surprised the manosphere never addressed him too, no one in Hollywood gets as many women as him.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

Hope you can find a way of watching this. It was an excellent series. And covers all the stuff people forget about, like the battle of Stamford Bridge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08h7zsb

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Alan

As Leonardo DiCaprio is the poster boy for Birkenhead Drill, surely the MRAs think he’s a ‘cuck’?

Ahahah must be! They do think he’s a cuck because he supported Obama and also defends climate change.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Alan

After some cursory googling I did actually find a source. Thank you very much! The tale of William’s Normandy Landing (chuckle) is among one of my favorites in the annals of English history.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

Ooh, enjoy. Got lots of Vikings in too.

But don’t forget to write an outraged letter to the BBC because William’s second in command is a black guy, 😉

(In the documentary bit Harold is played by a woman. Think the Beeb fancied ruffling a few feathers)

Overly Long Name
Overly Long Name
3 years ago

So i dont have much to say on Leonardo DeCaprio or death in combat for pagan gods, well i could say I’d probably be the first to die, but I can bitch about buddhism if anyone would like that.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Alan

I shall indeed!

Also, while I was reflecting upon the matter further, it occurred to me that I have presented you with a pair of England’s former enemies in the form of Lord Domhnall: the Scots and the Germans. His lineage contains both.

Win this and I shall present you with the title “Hammer of the Scots”. You will also be celebrated as the second King Arthur, who heroically protected his folk from the ravages of the Germanic Saxon incursions.

@Overly Long Name

So i dont have much to say on Leonardo DeCaprio or death in combat for pagan gods, well i could say I’d probably be the first to die,

Fear not; my Imperial Fleet and my Imperial Army require people who are not necessarily to be placed on the front lines. Someone must coordinate.

If you aren’t up to date with the joke, there’s these people called Hoteps who basically say that all black people are superhuman God-Emperors and Goddess-Empresses.

Being as I was raised on a steady diet of Medieval fantasy fiction, Star Wars, and Sci-fi, I like to poke fun at them by roleplaying as such.

ETA:

You know how the Society for Creative Anachronism and the Pennsic people roleplay at being Medieval European knights and lords and ladies and have their own ‘kingdoms’?

I’d basically like to do that, except Hotep-style.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

“And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods.”

Not quite up there with one of Troubelle’s efforts, but I still like it.

ETA: Happy to report that my dad’s alive and well, so I’ll just do the temple bit.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Alan

While we’re talking about Lord Domhnall:

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15029448.The_National___s_Ode_To_Domhnall_Trump______He_s_no__a_MacLeod__/?ref=mrb&lp=8

Even his own Scottish kinfolk don’t want him. Amazing.

I admit it is difficult for me to imagine a bare-chested Drumpf done up in blue woad, carrying a claymore and a targe, screaming his battle cry (what would it be? YUUUUGE? LOOOSER? Hardly evocative of the Scots Clan Campbell’s battlecry ‘CRUACHAN!’).

He would have to ride a golf cart, I presume.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

I know whenever a celebrity dies we discuss whether we can/should enjoy their art even if they were a rotten human being, and I tend to fall on the side of enjoying the art regardless of the artist (which probably surprises no one).

So, Leo DiC? I didn’t know much about his personal life anyway, so I still appreciate a performance by him if it’s good. I don’t recall the last thing I saw him in though, as he’s not a big draw for me -maybe The Departed?

Not religious or spiritual in any way whatsoever, although I’m familiar with basic mythology. But I can’t add a thing to this!

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
3 years ago

*delurks*

Hi, been reading forever, but everyone beats me to what I feel like saying so I don’t comment. But I’ve always thought that reason Brad Pitt is the MOST hated is not because he gets all the wimmnenz and tosses them when he’s done, but because he doesn’t. His monogamy and respect for his partners and ex partners is a threat to these menzers- they want expectations kept low. A handsome, wealthy man who isn’t a cad even though he could be just makes them look so, so bad in comparison.

Paulsan
Paulsan
3 years ago

Ok people, now you’re pluzzing me. Anytime some guy laments he can’t get women, the usual feminist answer is that he should stop thinking about sex, that desire for sex is just a patriarchanl programming, etc…
Now that some of these guys are trying to kill their libido (in an admittedly gross way, but that hurts nobody), you also complain about their methods. So fine, what should they do? Chemical castration?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

Oh yeah, the Scots have made their reluctance to claim him as one of their own very clear indeed. One Scottish comedienne is particularly forthright in her views.

Warning. Pic contains typically Scottish language…
comment image

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Dreemr

Not religious or spiritual in any way whatsoever, although I’m familiar with basic mythology. But I can’t add a thing to this!

Not to worry; according to the Hotep mythos, I, as a black woman, can perform a miracle, since I am both a goddess and empress of the known realms.

I shall aid you in your endeavor.

@Alan

Thanks! It was exceedingly wise of you to shelter my maiden eyes from the coarseness of our Highland-dwelling upper neighbors. Very chivalrous, indeed.

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

Here’s the thing though, don’t these guys know that in a ltr it is normal for people to be with each other in intimate and frankly nasty times? How old are these guys? Have they ever been in relationships? Didn’t they grow up around other human beings? How did they get to this point in their lives not knowing this basic stuff?

Sometimes you shower together on you period. Sometimes you do wonderful, crude and animalistic things to each other for fun. Sometimes one of you poops while the other is in the shower. You fart around each other. You see injuries and ingrown toenails. Most men like to be present for the births of their children. My ex watched my C-section. I held his hand through his vasectomy. You see each other with the flu. You pop eachother’s back zits. You nurse hangovers and food poisoning together.

Friends go through this stuff together too.

If you have kids, they get all their body fluid on you and they never stop being beautiful to you.

People with stomas etc don’t hide them away from their partners. If you come home from surgery, it is often your partner who will assist you changing the dressings. You’re there for one another through all life’s glorious tapestry and some of it is gross.

You are supposed to understand that all humans have body functions at a fairly young age. So, why does that come as a revelation to mgtows? I’m at a loss.

It seems that all they do is try to convince themselves women are the sourest of grapes.

I’ve decided to forgo sex and dating and I don’t spend effort trying to find men repulsive. I enjoy seeing a handsome man. I like seeing men enjoying themselves. (Mgtows seem to despise the sight of happy women.) I enjoy the company of male friends and family. I enjoy books and films by men. There are men I admire. There are men I enjoy working with. I do my best to be a supportive co-parent to my ex. I don’t spend my days imagining men pooping and being chopped up parts. I didn’t seek out and join a cult.

So, why do they?

Maybe the difference is I’m not angry at men because male supermodels aren’t forming a line outside my bedroom door. Maybe it’s because I don’t think of men as lacking agency or as existing for my sexual gratification. Maybe its because I wasn’t raised to see men as rewards for my accomplishments. Maybe its because I don’t feel personally offended if men aren’t doing their damndest to be pretty for my gaze or personally offended that they are attractive, but not in my bed.

If mgtows could get passed all that patriarchal nonsense, they might be able to be happy being single, lust or no lust.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

@Fran – a thousand thanks, your Worshipful Highness!

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

@Dreemr

You are most welcome. Perhaps may be wondering, “Your Majesty, if ALL Black people are divine imperial monarchs, as per Hotep mythos, who decides what? Is there an intermediary organization or alliance pact between all these empires?”

With my admittedly limited knowledge of history, I like to imagine that there is, perhaps, some sort of Galactic Imperial Entente Cordiale among the empires.

Otherwise, the Hotepverse is setting itself up for a galactic war of the likes of which would make even Warhammer 40K run and hide for cover.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

You are supposed to understand that all humans have body functions at a fairly young age. So, why does that come as a revelation to mgtows? I’m at a loss.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that girls are socialized to learn childcare and boys often are not. Girls help with younger siblings and babysit. Boys usually don’t unless they’re raised by parents who are putting in effort to challenge gender norms.

I was too young when my brother was in the diapers and spit up phase of life to clean after him, but I started babysitting younger neighborhood kids when I was 12. So I had experience with the grossness of other humans besides myself long before I was sexually active or in any kind of real relationship. As is typical for girls. Men often don’t change their first diaper until they have their own children. So l think the fact that their partners have bodily fluids and other unpleasant things just takes more getting used to for men than for women because we get up close and personal with other people’s poop and snot and smells earlier than they do.

Most men grow out of being freaked by the reality that women poop and have body odors. MGTOW never do.

But even men that aren’t as virulently misogynistic still get squicked out by women having bodily functions. I think if we did a better job teaching boys to nurture other people, we’d see that reduced somewhat.

ChimericMind
ChimericMind
3 years ago

Someone commented that manospherians want a virtual reality where they won’t have to poop or sweat. I’m not a manospherian, but I would love a reality where I don’t have to poop or sweat. A few hours ago I was actually thinking about how it would be one of the few upsides of being a vampire.

Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
Aulma Frendzar Dèdd
3 years ago

@Weasel-Rah

*delurks*

Hi, been reading forever, but everyone beats me to what I feel like saying so I don’t comment. But I’ve always thought that reason Brad Pitt is the MOST hated is not because he gets all the wimmnenz and tosses them when he’s done, but because he doesn’t. His monogamy and respect for his partners and ex partners is a threat to these menzers- they want expectations kept low. A handsome, wealthy man who isn’t a cad even though he could be just makes them look so, so bad in comparison.

Welcome! I’m a new commenter here too but I’ve been lurking for a while now. 🙂
Yeah, a handsome and successful man that dedicates his personal life to monogamy??? Blasphemy! The funny thing is that these type of men are a majority (RobertDJr, Hugh Jackman, Ryan Gosling, Matt Damon, Chris Hemsworth).

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

WWTH,
That’s sadly true. I remember my youngest brother asked for a baby doll and my parents gave him the kind you could give a bottle and it would “pee”.

People were shocked. They especially thought it was weird that the baby doll had an uncircumcised penis to pee from. My parents weren’t terribly progressive, but they thought it was normal for a boy to want to play like a daddy.

It strikes me now that you point it out that girls have toys marketed to them that have body functions to clean up after and boys do not. My oldest had a Barbie that came with a pooping dog and a pooper scooper and a cat that peed with a litter box and scoop.

We teach them young who is supposed to do the dirty work, don’t we?

I’ve had conversation with my kids about why society wants so badly to put a gun or a tool in a boys hand early and a baby and some make-up in a girls. We’ve talked about why boys get to be heroes while girls are pretty princesses.

The cleaning up body functions being the thing we market to girls had not occured to me.

dslucia
dslucia
3 years ago

@Trollsan:

I find myself needing to say this pretty often to ‘perplexed’ people like yourself, but it might help if you base the suppositions that “support” your “argument” on actual reality rather than what you perceive “the usual feminist response” to be thanks to whatever reactionary slop you swallow down without any critical thought.

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

I’m in a place where most families are only a couple generations off of the farm. The attitude, “Shit washes off. Don’t be squeamish about a little dookie”, is still pretty common.

Still, men here tend to see childcare and house work as primarily the sphere of women.

I still remember when I was a new mom and I had a list of friends who had volunteered to come help if I needed it. I called a female friend, but she wasn’t home. Her bf surprised me (I was young) by volunteering in her place and rushing over to change diapers and give cuddles.

He said he wanted to be a dad so much and could not wait to have a house full, but he never got much of a chance to practice.

They didn’t get started until she was out of grad school. They’re still together and they have three of their own, plus they’re the neighbourhood hang out for all the kids around them. He is an excellent dad.

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

Trollsan,
Literally none of that is true. Here’s a tip: If your argument relies upon grossly misstating someone else’s position, your argument is bullshit.

Lea
Lea
3 years ago

usual feminst answer

Citation?

Dehumanizing women and imagining them as shit and chopped up bodies is not problematic because it is merely gross. Try harder.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

Re: men, childcare, and diaper changing

I live in a pretty bass-ackwards rural area, and work with all men, but even these rather retro throwbacks have much more experience with child care and dirty diapers than one might think.

Just the other day one of the younger fellows we work with who has 3 young sons was late because of a “blowout” among one or another of them. This did spark a conversation among the rest of us of “Nauseating Effluvia Episodes With Our Children”.

So, not saying it’s universal, but even rural North Dakota men have more than a passing familiarity with changing diapers and dealing with vomit. At least it’s not as alien as it probably once was.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Chimeric Mind,

Possible TMI but my friend and I had a conversation where we agreed that we’d miss pooping if we were vampires. Sure, it’s gross and stinky. But it’s also very cathartic.

On the other hand, when I had an eating disorder I often longed to
just be a mind with no body at all. The wish to jump out of my skin entirely is not foreign to me. So I understand where you’re coming from!

Weasel-rah

Welcome! You might have a point. Brad Pitt did cheat on Jennifer Aniston with Angelina Jolie, so he’s certainly not perfect. But although it is wrong to hook up with your new partner before ending things with your old one if you’re in a monogamous relationship, I don’t think he cheated just to cheat. Considering he and Jolie spent over a decade together and had kids, he clearly fell for her and wasn’t just “spinning plates.” Other than that one incident he doesn’t seem to fit the mold of the alpha male that they insist we all want. He’s conventionally attractive and has lots of female fans but still wants to be in long term relationships? How could this be!?

I also remember that the manosphere got pissed off the time that Ryan Gosling pulled a woman out of the path of a moving vehicle. Since the woman was a writer and had a decent social media following the story went viral when she posted about it. It increased his popularity with women, thus contradicting the story they tell about how acting like an asshole to women is the only way to attract them. IIRC, the whines were the usual white knighting, disposable male crap.

Jarred H
3 years ago

@Paulsan:

Anytime some guy laments he can’t get women, the usual feminist answer is that he should stop thinking about sex, that desire for sex is just a patriarchanl programming, etc…

Let me expand upon dslucia’s response above. I’m not going to say that feminists never tell men not to think about sex. however, in my experience at least, A far more common response from feminists is that such men need to quit thinking women only in terms of sex and viewing them as nothing more than sex objects/a source of sex that men are automatically entitled to.

It’s very telling that these men — and based on your comments, you — think that their only options are to think about women as a source of sex or “suppress their libido.”

I’m a gay man working in a field that is still heavily dominated by other men. There has never been a point in my twenty-year career when I have not worked with at least one other man I find attractive. I don’t have to suppress my libido. I don’t even have to force myself to not be attracted to those men. I simply have to work with and treat them as colleagues. I simply have to focus on the respect I have for them and the work they do, and the tasks we are collaborating on to accomplish the project’s goals together.

In a non-work situation, I can be social with someone I’m attracted to by focusing on common interests and shared activities.

In short, I see these men as people I can relate to in a non-sexual way. It does not take a huge feat of strength or willpower on my part. It’s just something I’ve learned to do. I find it hard to believe that heterosexual men are incapable of interacting with women in a similar manner — that you are all slaves to your libido and have to resort to some herculean effort to keep your sexual desires under control. If you or any MGTOW believes that, then I daresay y’all have a much more unflattering and heinous opinion of men than any feminist I have ever met or heard about.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Ok people, now you’re pluzzing me. Anytime some guy laments he can’t get women, the usual feminist answer is that he should stop thinking about sex, that desire for sex is just a patriarchanl programming, etc…

Say what?

I’ve never seen any feminist say that ever.

Sex drive is a biological function. People who have a sex drive have every right to want sex and to think about sex.

As a feminist woman who is attracted to men, it would be no benefit to me if no man ever wanted to have sex. From a purely selfish standpoint, why would I want to embark on a quest to force all men into celibacy?

We do say that if no one is entitled to sex because no one gets to use someone’s body without their consent.

We also say that not getting the amount of sex you want is a personal problem, not an oppression that feminists are required to solve.

Is that what was confusing you?

If that’s the case than it’s a little disturbing that you think men don’t have active sex lives unless they’re forcing or coercing women into sex.