So the fellas in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit are trying to figure out why women visit their horrid little subreddit and sometimes even post mean things about them there. A fellow called VanDerVaart has an explanation. Well, two of them:
Yes, that’s right. Some of the women who seem on the surface to despise the whiny misogynistic shits who populate the MGTOW subreddit are actually really into them, or at least really into all the cool shit MGTOWs own because they don’t have to waste their money on, I dunno, buying women lobster dinners in hopes of scoring some sex.
And so these wily resource-hungry ladies are going to try to slime their way into their lives in hopes of … scoring a lobster dinner in return for sex. Or maybe these evil females will just sneak into their apartments to steal their cool-ass gaming chairs or something. Because LL Cool C: ladies love cool chairs.
@KatieKitten
Around here, there’s this thing called ‘intent isn’t magic’. Basically, if you do a bad thing, you did a bad thing. Whether your reasons were good is of, at most, secondary importance. ‘The road to perdition is paved with good intentions’, ya know? So, if you fought in a bullshit war you fought in a bullshit war. And it’s OK not to approve of that choice
‘Military recruiter’ is possibly the most hideous occupation in this country, and they can all fuck themselves. Nuff said
Personally, I think wanting to join the military in order to do good is valid. And I’m not going to actively shit on you if you’re an otherwise decent person, but got sent off to die, and kill, for bullshit. Not every soldier is Chris Kyle (that fuckin movie made a total monster into a red state hero *seethes*), and I try to remember that. But honoring a dead person who happened to be a soldier isn’t the problem. It becomes an issue when military service becomes honorable in and of itself.
The Murican Revolution wasn’t about freedom. It was about independence. Black folk weren’t freed from slavery, native folk weren’t freed from ‘manifest destiny’, women weren’t freed from patriarchy. The only freedom was gained in 1783 was that of rich, white dudes not to hafta pay taxes to the crown. That’s it. The Indian Revolution was far more about freedom from Britain. I also don’t totally agree that the Civil War was about freedom either. Just cause the South fought for racism don’t mean the North was BLM or anything. Minor quibble tho
Did not mean to write that much…
O/T but some people are freaking out over this painting. Can’t think why.
http://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/591c511f7fbd291f32bf5c99/master/pass/Instagram_2017-05-17%20at%209.21.44%20AM.png
@Atom Ant
Women are consistently worse off after divorce than men. You think guys your age are the only ones affected by this? How many women your age do you talk to about their lifestyles pre- and post-divorce?
Aww, poor dudes, having to pay to support the children they made so that the children aren’t living on the streets! What a tragedy.
So why are you speculating?
I will tell you that back when I was dating, “has a steady job” was a non-negotiable requirement for any prospective mate. Not because I was “looking for resources” but because I didn’t want to have to support someone who lived on my couch. I did that once and it was awful. Getting him off my couch was a hassle and a half, and I wasn’t even dating the asshole. So “can support self” was a standard upon which I insisted.
I met far too many men who were looking to mooch off of me, and I didn’t give any of them a second date. That’s just common sense when you don’t want to deal with sponges, and I’ve personally met far more male sponges than female. Many men are users, and I have nothing to do with them.
But you know what? You get to do that, too! If you don’t want to support a lover, make it a requirement in your mind that any prospect has to have a steady job, and then don’t date people who don’t meet that standard! It’s really that easy.
Women also seek sex and men also seek resources. See above, re: the men who wanted to mooch off me. Being lazy in someone else’s home is the life goal of too many men. It’s not like these guys are looking to be house husbands. They certainly won’t do laundry or cook meals. They just want to play video games and veg, and I’m not hip to that.
This is the top-voted comment on a recent post on the MGTOW reddit:
This cherry was hand-selected by, as of now, 56 separate MGTOWs as the best example of their philosophy. This comment describe straight-up rape as the inevitable conclusion of women not throwing themselves onto men.
Here’s the second-top comment:
Again, a cherry selected by more than two dozen MGTOWs as being one of their finest. When MGTOWs hand us cherries like this and say, “here, these are the most delicious ones we have produced” you can’t blame us for pointing out that the cherries MGTOWs love best are rotten inside.
@Kupo
I’m the only member of my family (nuclear and otherwise) to have not joined either the police force or the army; every one of my relatives in both groups would certainly say that a toast, or just drinks generally, is absolutely appropriate.
And from that perspective, I agree with a lot of what KatieKitten was saying. I have never met a person who joined the Army or any other force ‘to kill people’ (joining instead for career development, family pressure, lack of other employment options), and yet many of them have done just that. I had a friend at school who was a mess, who joined the (Royal) Marines and genuinely turned into the best version of himself; I knew another ex-Marine who was one of the nastiest, most racist turds you could imagine, who did great harm to my family.
As a counterpoint, one of my grandfathers was a Commando in Burma, and he was unimpressed by memorials and public displays of remembrance, especially from the politicians who would then increase military spending, be belligerent with smaller countries, etc. He wanted the events remembering and the experiences recording, but he didn’t consider the things he’d had to do something worth celebrating.
An aside: various military members of my family – a flippant, disrespectful Midlands family, mostly – believe the most accurate movie ever made about the British soldier to be ‘Dog Soldiers’. Ignore the werewolves, listen to the banter, and you have a microcosm of a squaddies’ life.
Wow, we got an actual “We hunted the mammoth” troll. I haven’t seen one of those in a while.
I wonder if trolls who make those comments ever wonder how the men who totes made all the things and did all the stuff came into this world in the first place.
Some non- cis men made the men who totes made all the things and did all the stuff.
…and you didn’t even really make all the things and do all the stuff, Mr. Overlyfondofhimself. Despite men’s best efforts, women have always found a way to work, to fight and to create.
Men tried to force women out of every profession, including soldiering. They did their damnedest for thousands of years to keep women dependent upon them. Feminism encourages women to take active rolls in society and to remove the obstacles in our way.
We haven’t caught up yet. Centuries of oppression takes time to overcome, but we’re making progress. We will get achieve equality.
That’s why you’re so resentful and afraid of feminism. If we don’t need you, you can’t control us and if you can’t control us, we can reject you.
And we do, don’t we? You didn’t go your own way. You didn’t have to. Nobody wants you or your “resources”.
You arent fooling anyone. You aren’t pissed that women need you. You’re pissed we don’t.
Yes, when you don’t pay women the same wages you pay men, men end up paying more taxes.
Most of the people who need those taxes are children, the elderly, veterans and the disabled.
Men begin as children too, they become veterans, get old and have disabilities too.
Men run most world governments, because again, they have kept women from positions of power for ages and to this day mistrust and demean women in authority. They start the wars they send other men to die in.
Then they prevent women from active duty (or, in reality, active duty pay)
It is by and large men who run corporations and choose to make jobs dangerous for workers. It’s a choice they make for greater profits. Rampant ambition, greed and oppression are glorified by patriarchy. Empathy and social responsibility are not.
They should have to pay higher taxes. They should have to provide safe work places, living wages and healthcare for the workers who create their profits.
That’s the socialism you claim to hate.
If what you really wanted was a better world for men, you’d promote feminism and socialism.
But, that isn’t what you want at all.
You want a worse world for women.
It has ever been the cruelest trick patriarchy played on men. Your masters give their slaves a slave so you’ll think you’re one of them.
Now it is getting harder to get that little woman to be lord over, isn’t it? The illusion is starting to fade. You know your place in the system and you hate it.
That’s what’s so funny about misogynists claiming to take the “red pill”. You’re devoted to your fantasy.
@Axe
‘It becomes a problem when military service becomes honorable in and of itself.’
100% agree. Which has made for some tricky conversations at family gatherings!
@Alan
Some people just can’t handle #blackgirlmagic. White dudes are allowed to put black women down, but black women aren’t allowed to uplift each other in response
From the Teen Vogue piece (the best place for journalism in this country today, wtf?):
?
Atom Ant,
Not dating, having kids or getting married are all valid choices, but that is not the focus of mgtow philosophy and you know it isn’t.
The focus is that women are evil, lesser beings and deserve some sort of punishment.
Just look at the comments your fellows have made here. Look at your own speculation that women are out to use you, so it is fine to use them. That’s shitty. You’re a shitty, shitty, misogynist guy. You think you’re a nice guy because you think you’re bigoted attitude is correct, not because you aren’t a bigot. You’re no different from a racist who calls himself a “race realist”. Dress it up however you like, you’re a misogynist just like every other mgtow.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5035b345-8ae7-427d-a0f6-31f4c71c4cc7/gif#rJriGrPuWW.copy
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d45184c8-f7a6-4f59-a5f9-2538389f8489/gif#HJLehIDOWb.copy
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6eb752ec-8ac0-44c2-878b-fc76b1dbf2aa/gif#rJjBkvwdZb.copy
The only response one needs to “we hunted the mammoth for you” trolls is to point out that women invented beer. No other argument is needed to invalidate it.
@mish
Sorry i had to go to sleep. This one is really cute! I will in aus and nz in july actually, now we in panama and Columbia and USA. I like see these birds, though i dont know all names i learn them slowly slowly )))
Re: memorial toast
Ok, it’s probably just that we’re still feeling a little raw and so we’re looking at this in a similar light to the farewell party (with a freaking photo booth) for the first round of layoffs. Thanks for helping me sort that out. 🙂
@kupo
I’ve been wondering where you’d gone ! Glad yer back and I hope you can find a job soon.
@Mish
Herro 🙂
@Alan, Axe
I dunno if you read that, but about three weeks ago I bought a doll for my niece’s 5th birthday and it’s awesome and was made by awesome folks etc. Weeeell… anyway, I got “called out” on that this week. ’cause of the racist choice of picking a black doll, you see. And of course by the same people who find my niece “so beautiful, little black girls are so beautiful”.
And while that’s kinda beside the point, it should also be noted that the artists made their stuff with the materials they could scrounge, and didn’t exactly make a point of using “skin-colored” cloth for the dolls’. That makes it even stupider. Like… this one’s jet black. I picked it because it’s the one they made during their stay and I was with them the whole time, basically bartending on the grass, but I also liked the dark blue one. And the red one had the best clothing but also a very fragile head of hair.
I think I can picture a pretty accurate vision of how those people would react to that painting.
@Kupo
Layoffs are a scary time; I hope you’re okay, and I hope everyone else there is okay too.
As you’re on the other side of the planet, I can offer one of three things as very, very mild succour – a joke, an anecdote (least recommended option), or the promise that, the next time I discover a cave or previously unrevealed mine, I’ll name some part of it after anything you like. I found summat interesting yesterday and it’s crying out for some fun names!
Sinkable John, that’s the doll you bought for your niece at that festival, right?
WTF was their complaint, exactly? (The people who called you out, if I wasn’t clear on that.)
@John
Um, would they find it racist if you gave a white doll to a white girl?
Also, I made some red wine jelly the other day and thought of you and your mulled wine (the first step is steeping in spices).
@DanHolme
Thanks, that’s very sweet of you. I’ll be fine; I’m in probably the second or third best city to be in (in the US anyway) for my profession, and we’re all going to help each other boost our skills and prep for interviews in the months to come. I’m terrible at naming things, btw. 🙂
The complaint involving the doll sounds like it is based on the fact gollywogs have a racist history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog
@Kupo
Glad to hear that you & yours are okay.
Not having been within shouting distance of a computer game since I last played the arcade version of ‘The House of the Dead III’ in an arcade in Matlock Bath in 2004, I had to google what a Kupo was. Based on the avatar, I thought they might be a kind of bat, which is obviously fun for subterranean types.
So next thing – pothole, rift or unrecorded mine – I get to name, will be Moogle’s Lair.
Just curious Sinkable John,
Are you and/or the artists white and were they people who complained about the doll black?
Because that could be a factor in why they would know the history of black skinned dolls and why you and/or the artists might not.
@PeeVee, kupo
Apparently it’s racist ’cause I should’ve been color-blind or something instead of going out of my way to specifically buy a black doll.
Which I didn’t, but again, that’s beside the point.
Further OT I’m going to my second yearly ritual basically on her birthday and she might come with me. This one’s a three-days street festival with about a dozen stages scattered around the older parts of the town I grew up in.
The kid loves loud guitars and old stones. This is gonna be fun. Though I am glad she’ll be headed back here in the early evenings while I enjoy the nights in the more traditional fashion, which involves a lot more beer and a lot less kids to watch – I love her but she’s exhausting.
Edit : @Lea
They’re white, and I’m positive that’s not the reason why they were complaining. The real reason is more in the lines of “they’re exactly the kind of people that have no business going anywhere near my niece”.
Well, that is just …
Wow.
That’s sad.
@ sinkable john
You should have got her a poster of Keith Richards.
@DanHolme
If you want to go for a super subtle hidden reference, you could call it Narshe, as the Narshe Mines are where the moogles live in Final Fantasy VI (or it’s called Final Fantasy III in the US), which is where I got my name (because I loved the scene with the moogles in FFVI and the way they add “kupo!” to the end of everything).
I’m a couple of pages behind (as usual) and want to get my thoughts down before going on to page 5, so…
Pagan Reader, do you have a title for Katz’s book that I can look up? The link doesn’t work for me (just says I’m not authorized to see these tweets.)
Valentine 2.0 (or is it 2.0.1 after the successful picture post?) – очен хорошо!