Women who hate-read the MGTOW subreddit really just want our stuff, MGTOW of the Day says

@dreemr:

Thanks, @Bina, now I have

He’s a trolllll man….
(trumpet riff)
He’s a trollll MAN

Running through my brain!

*to the tune of “Soul Man” if it wasn’t obvious

Always glad to be of inspiration! Especially since this troll is so especially dull, with his eyedropper version of the Gish Gallop…

@dlouwe,

The experiment you mention sounds similar to one of Daniel Dennett’s “7 tools for critical thinking”, where he borrows from Anatol Rapoport:

How to compose a successful critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

We use this in a couple of different classes whenever the focus is on constructing effective arguments. It’s a worthwhile exercise, but not easy.

@Chessman

Are feminist women just mad because mgtow men refuse to catcall them?

Yes. Congratulations on figuring that one out.

What did a mgtow man ever do to you to get you to target them with this hateful cyber-bullying campaign?

Have you read your first question? We’re just mad because MGTOWs refuse to catcall us.

@ Chessman:

I’m going to play along here because it entertains me to do so. But your sealioning isn’t a Golden Ticket to an endless wealth of my time or interest.

Let’s start with the basics. I know there’s a lot of Humpty-Dumpty nonsense in MRA circles; you guys love to reinterpret existing words and try to impose your own definitions. It’s thus likely that we don’t share a common definition of what “patriarchy” even means.

I’m going to use the commonly-accepted meaning, and not the MRA-nonsense versions that cast MRAs as some kind of champions against a system that they call “patriarchy” but that they believe is in almost every way rigged in favor of women. THAT’S NOT WHAT PATRIARCHY MEANS. Sigh.

Breaking it down to its roots, “patriarchy” is a system where men have disproportionate political, social, and economic power. It’s a system where men “rule” in these areas. That’s literally what the word means, and how everyone except MRAs uses the word.

Let’s start with politics, shall we? Having a government where the POTUS has always been male, and where the House of Representatives is currently 80.9% male, and where the Senate is currently 79% male, and where the Supreme Court has 3 women and 5 men, and where the state governors are apportioned 44 male to 6 female, and where women have only been able to vote for the past 100 years (out of 230 years) is a good example of a political system where men hold disproportionate power.

How do MRAs support this view, and thus support political patriarchy? They continually state that women aren’t fit to hold political offices. Hell, Vox Day doesn’t even think women should be allowed to vote, and is very open about that ridiculous view.

Now on to social issues. I know this one is contested among the MRA know-nothings, who believe that women are in control of all cishet sexual interactions. But examples of social patriarchy include the objectification of women (subject to the male gaze), the belief that women’s only meaningful social roles are sexual, and the belief that men are in most or all ways superior to women.

How do MRAs support this view, and thus support social patriarchy? Seriously, sport, read any of those sites and try to pretend this isn’t the baseline. But ok, head to Chateau Heartiste and compare the Dating Market Value Test for Men to that ostensibly for Women. Notice any differences? Those are due to a rigidly patriarchal value system.

All right then. Economics! You’ll probably try to move goalposts here, but I’m not interested in playing along with your arguments about whether women are “worth” as much as men, or whether they “deserve” to earn and save as much money as men. The simple economic question is this: do men hold disproportionally more wealth than women? And the simple answer is yes. MRAs complain about this all the time, believing that they deserve all the wealth, and then complaining that women covet this wealth and use trickery and manipulation to seize it. But even MRAs don’t generally pretend that there’s an equality of wealth by gender.

To quote Time (June 7, 2016):

Women now control $39.6 trillion, or about 30% of the world’s wealth

I’d like to hope that you can deduce from this that men control about 70% of the world’s wealth. I’m not going to bother looking for some MRA nonsense about why this is true but it’s really only because women suck. That’s, again, not the argument here; not whether you feel they deserve equal economic power, but whether they have it. They do not. MRAs talk all the time about how women just want their stuff, because even they recognize that men hold most of the world’s wealth. Again, not going to bother providing a citation by a noted MRA, because I’ve put enough time and energy into this, and am off to do something more fun and interesting.

@ WWTH:

I do think male allies can help us out by taking over the job of telling other men that feminism doesn’t harm them. Because I’m certainly done with doing it.

That’s fair, and I do try. I’ve only been here a short time, and haven’t posted often (due to a lack of spoons, which is a wonderful metaphor that I’m glad to now be familiar with). I post more often in other places though, and certainly stand by the argument that nothing about feminism harms men.

I fully agree though that the main point of feminism is to achieve equality for women. It’s not (and cannot be) mostly or equally about men, because the system as it stands right now is rigged against women, by and for men.

I do like to draw MRA attention to how feminism actually achieves some of the things that they complain about (e.g. combating restrictive gender roles, countering machismo, offering men different role models that allow for open emotional expression, etc). But as you and PoM noted, that’s really a byproduct of the main goal.

As long as there’s pervasive systemic inequality, any search for equal treatment needs to focus on the disadvantaged. That’s just as true in gender issues as it is in racial issues. That’s why I snap at people who pull out #AllLivesMatter or #NotAllMen or the like.

http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/20160707_allhousesredux.png

OT: Jared Kushner is not a genius

Jared Kushner wanted to use Russian embassy to make secure phone calls to Kremlin
The presidential son-in-law thought he could just walk into the Russian embassy and make a secret phone call

Kushner asked Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak if they might set up a “secure communications channel” in a “Russian diplomatic facility,” which would allow the Trump team to have an open and private channel to the Kremlin. . . .

It is unclear why Kushner and Trump’s team so direly needed a secret communications channel to the Kremlin, though given the near-daily attempts by Trump confidants to obscure or downplay their Russian connections, the answer may be unsavory. It was also inept of Kushner to believe that could walk into the Russian embassy and make a secret phone call; as the Post noted, “the FBI closely monitors the communications of Russian officials in the United States, and maintains near-constant surveillance of its diplomatic facilities. The National Security Agency monitors the communications of Russian officials overseas.”

Oh, dear, Kat; he’s going to think you’re serious, since there’s no sarcasm tag on it. (Your 8:30 post)

Women are ultra passive/submissive and crave alpha male dominance (basically initiating and forcing them to have sex), but then complain about the same “rape culture” THEY actually perpetuate by their refusal to accept responsibility for their share or showing sexual interest or initiating sex with strange men whom they find attractive (they expect the man to do everything, still, in 2017).

Good Goddess, that is all one sentence.

@Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major

@Mish

[waves at Mish-nyan before disappearing to pop teenage boys in the head in Counter-Strike]

*waves back, grins*
You go; do what you must. Wish I could join you for some CSGO <3

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/answers/3187000/3187369_1364189831783.79res_500_277.jpg

@Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
For the love of Malal it’s almost like they all want to go to jail.

@PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59286594efcf595732adc5cb/master/w_900,c_limit/alexa-ranks-01.jpg

Just a few months later, the numbers have a different story to tell. As of May 26, 2017, according to Alexa.com—the same web-ranking analytics company that Breitbart drew its numbers from in January—Fox News is the 64th most-trafficked site in the country. Huffington Post is at 60. Buzzfeed is at 50. The Washington Post, on the strength of a series of eye-popping scoops, is at 41.

Breitbart is in 281st place.

http://pa1.narvii.com/5805/64d27bccf8c73931e3cbe0f2d17f9b99152ca84c_hq.gif

PeeVee: oh god, someone else taken in by Alexa’s claptrap.

At least they went and got independent confirmation.

Tonight in “Great Understatements on WHTM”:

Jared Kushner is not a genius

Thank you, @Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile! 😀