While the rest of the Western world grapples with the horror of the Manchester bombing, Reddit’s incels are looking back three years to another terrorist massacre — and lauding the angry young incel who carried it out.
It’s been three years since a disturbed loner named Elliot Rodger murdered six and injured fourteen others in an extended rampage in Isla Vista, California, leaving behind a series of videos and a book-length manifesto detailing his deep hatred of, and equally intense desire for, women. Had he been able to get inside the sorority that was his primary intended target, the carnage would have likely been far worse.
Naturally, many of Reddit’s incels — self-described “involuntary celibates” — have embraced Rodger as an incel hero. In a series of posts in the Incels subreddit today, the regulars are celebrating what they call “Saint Elliot’s Day.”
In one thread with several dozen upvotes titled “Happy Saint Elliot’s day! The third anniversary of the day of retribution!” numerous Reddit incels sing the praises of the man they hail as the “supreme gentleman.”
A Redditor called thebillstone really, really wishes that Rodger had been able to get inside that sorority.
Naturally, some visitors to the subreddit are appalled by the celebration of a murderer:
![DigDugDactylus 27 points 6 hours ago* Do people here seriously support a serial killer? Edit: I thought people exxagerated, so I decided to check. People here need help permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]justendmefamThe only thing left to do is to dog 1 2 7 points 4 hours ago He's wasn't a serial killer first of all and second of all plenty of females admire serial and other killer](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el5.png?ssl=1)
But in fact not all incels think Rodger was a hero. Some are appalled to see fellow incels lionizing a mass killer — something that, at the very least, makes incels look bad.
![Know_What_Fvck_ThisRacecel: Enemy to All 5 points 8 hours ago Tbh, fuck this faggot, he's the reason we're associated with school shootings. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]xxxrivenmainxxx 0 points 2 hours ago school shooters are true heros](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el6.png?ssl=1)
Others look down on Rodger because his body count wasn’t higher, and not enough of his victims were women.
Still others complain that Rodger was simply too good-looking to be a true incel.
The Incels subreddit may be the scariest place on Reddit.
There have been moments of fat shaming and using the fact that people live in a basement or with their parents to belittle them. But you know what? They got called out, and the people involved stopped and apologised.
If you find this community, of all places, despite the above, “fucking terrifying”, then there’s probably not a lot that can be done to deal with your concerns.
[tries valiantly to come up with a joke along the lines of “Call me Fran. Men call me…often.” and fails because she’s had way too little sleep and needs to go to bed]
Uhh. No opinion on the argument itself (I kind of agree with Victoria’s original post, but the rest of it got very silly very quickly), but… How the crapsicles is asking for proof sealioning? Do you even know what sealioning is? o_O
Asking for proof then refusing to read it can be sealioning. Asking for proof then refusing to give proof of your own can be sealioning. Just plain old asking for proof is… Y’know… The most basic-ass line of defense against everything from lies to lynch mobs.
Or are we supposed to be psychic now?
Call me IgnoreSandra, because ignoring me is your best defense against my logic.
Or call me Sandra, because I’ll go south of the andra.
Or Cassandra, for I cannot lie when I look upon someone so beautiful.
Though men just call me Cassie, because what do I know about my own name?
Can we discuss the ikon now? This is something david made or is from reddit?
@abars01
Yay! I hope you have lots of fun. Even if you don’t, it’s a personal victory.
I experience a lot of social anxiety, which (I hear) is undetectable to others.
Back in my dating days, I asked a guy out. He said no. No problem! I still felt like a million bucks because I did it! Yay me!
@Z&T
Happy birthday, Z&T — from one revolutionary to another.
In fairness to Victoria, I think that this
is actually what this
was more or less expressing. I think this was misinterpreted and that misinterpretation led to the call for citations. Am I wrong?
In fairness to lseult, I interpreted the social awkwardness comments as (perhaps unclearly) expressing exactly the point that Victoria was trying to make, which is that you can be “awkward”* without having a garbage worldview and wishing people harm. I think their comments were meant to universalise the experience of being awkward, whereas many incels blame their social discomfort on women or masculine hierarchies or women or definitely women, and seem to think life is 100% peachy for everyone who’s not them. You could make the case that lseult was unsubtle or failed to differentiate normative from nonnormative social discomfort (if that’s possible), but they seemed to me to be alluding to incels’ lack of empathy, not trying to draw a comparison between “poor social skills” and “poor morality.”
*Do people feel okay about this word? I use it to describe myself but I’ll hear arguments that it’s stigmatising if you have them.
@Grumpy Thanks for sharing! And well put.
@Valentine
I didn’t see the Православный ikon (Orthodox icon) in the incel subreddit. I did a search for Elliot Rodger and this icon but couldn’t find it there either.
So I don’t know the answer to your question, but I am sorry that the use of this icon caused you pain. Be well.
@Sandra
[boggles incoherently as she realizes that her brief Roman Empire-based alt-history fiction in another thread, where a intrepid, resourceful Gladiatrix named Cassandra strangles Empress Francesca to death in her royal chambers, may actually have been about yourself]
Bluh.
Admittedly, now that I look on it, I should have made the connection since Cassandra = Sandra, but I overlooked that minor detail as tends to happen.
Well, apparently you are now a character in a novel, albeit an unfinished one. Tell everyone you met about how noteworthy you are now! People write books about you!
Or, at least, I would if I weren’t such a fuckup.
ETA:
I hope to Goddess “The Collapse of Empress Francesca’s Absurdly Decadent Reign” isn’t my fucking breakout novel, because that would be embarrassing.
Novels with self-inserts from the author are always so tacky, ugggggggh.
@kat. Thanks. I just thought it was a little bit inappropriate and was hoping that David didnt make this one. Many people i know take them on ship and something nasty to see a killers face there instead.
Good Cod, yes, it is scary to read these posts. It’s gone beyond the point where I’m just irritated they get to claim a shared mantle of oppression while condemning women for having the audacity to mutually choose their sexual partners and ignoring the existence of awkward and/or non-“HB” women. It’s scary because more young men in pain will be taught to direct that pain into hate.
Recognising that the people in your life are really people, like you, and not just NPCs there to serve or limit you, is an absolute must for fulfilling relationships. It breaks my heart to see that one commenter say that Rodger is the only one who’s ever “done something for incels.” And to see his murders celebrated as “retribution;” from which slight, exactly? Seeing other people as a collective united against you, even conspiring against you, not as individuals… that kind of thing almost always has to be learned.
My own romantic frustrations, and I would venture to guess, many women’s, have always been funneled into internalised, not externalised, hatred. There’s very little to glamorise about self-hate. You don’t get to rage at how the system doesn’t fit you because you’re too busy worrying that you don’t fit the system. I don’t doubt that growing up male within toxic masculinity probably sucks in a lot of ways, but sometimes when I see Reddit incels so callously overlooking the fact that women bear more than their share of humanity’s emotional burden my overdeveloped empathy processor short-circuits.
Sigh.
Happy Birthday Z&T!
http://www.ztscootnskate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/logo4.png
(There weren’t many appropriate pics out there, so I hope you like skating, and whatever ‘scooting’ is)
FFS.
I was looking for an image of an old-fashioned child’s scooter to show Alan something like the one I had as a kid, and I came across this extraordinary example of photoshopping.
I know people like a nicely formed ankle and/or a dainty leg … but how did this ever get published?
@ mildlymagnificent
Ah, thank you. So it’s just scooters? I should have known that really. The kids at the local skatepark thingy (basically some old concrete pipes etc the council chad no further use for) use scooters. It’s pretty spectacular; and keeps our local minor injuries clinic in business.
As for that leg! Eek, reminds me of when I tore a calf muscle. She should get that checked out.
@ Valentine
There’s something I’d love to pick your brains on next time there’s an open thread. Remind me ‘Spetsnaz/Russian Orthodox’.
@Francesca
[Deeply enjoys the confusion]
xD That whole thread I was thinking “Should I tell her? Nah, it’s funnier this way.”
Cassandra is a quite common fictional name, though most just use it as a generic name instead of drawing parallels to the mythological Cassandra. It’s also not uncommon among people like me, for what I hope are fairly obvious reasons.
Don’t feel bad about not guessing my name. You did exactly what you should have done. You didn’t shorten or alter my name, or decide that it had to be a certain way. Ya just called me what I wanted to be called. That’s exactly how it ought to be.
Honestly, if you intend to write entertaining garbage, tacky self inserts is just par for the course. And there’s a difference between the author inserting themselves as someone amazing, and the author taking the opportunity to make fun of themselves. Like, my brother’s literary self-inserts suck because he’s a boring hack of an author (But let’s not harp about that) and because he writes himself as a strange wise man who gives cryptic but crucial information. Instead of, say, a local yokel who gives speeches about what a badass he is but runs away when the heroine needs help with a nosebleed or something.
You don’t seem to have the “The author’s self-insert must be right or in some way useful” problem xD
@alan well what kat said is a bit of a mistranslaton. I think Православный and orhtodox is not the same. I discuss this before with my friend Egor who can explain better than me. My dictonary also say Православный and orthodox is the same but its not. You can pick my braon though later – but nothing there ?
Also just found out from my watchkeeper there is war now in Mindanao in Philippines. Anyone know more on this?
@Valentine
Yeah, Duterte called martial law. The official story is that it’s to fight ISIS, but frankly, it sounds a lot more like he’s making his grab for full dictator now that he’s received Trump’s approval.
@Sfhc
My AB said there is fighting in Island capital. I dont know what Mindanao captial city is called. He also said this about Isis because of Manchester attacks. General feeling here seems that Duerte is popular. Only one AB i asked before about it didnt like him. The third officer here even said me that the best leader was Marcos.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/tony-walsh-poem-manchester-vigil-13082050
Off topic:
@Fran (and anyone else who might be interested):
My thoughts have recently turned to board game design, and I’ve been throwing together some prototypes. The theme is “ridiculously over-the-top steampunk heroes and villains go on Baron von Munchhausen / Girl Genius style adventures.”
I’m in need of a significant number of diverse original characters, as well as other bits of setting. It occurred to me that you might be a good person to ask about ridiculously over-the-top steampunk.
Contributions are welcome from anyone.
And god forbid you believe a an actual disabled person when they say something you said was offensive. I did call out an actual quote but you guys were all “Nuh uh, you’re wrong, you’re overreacting, I’m not autistic but I don’t see anything ableist about this.”
If you think this means I’ll be comfortable calling out ableist language in the future, yeah, no. I see what happens when I do that, apparently.
The last steampunk PC I did was a noblewomen wanted to be the best hunter in the world. Her two problem was to be A – hopelessly naive and willing to hunt Dahus and cryptids of both the serious and non-serious variety and B – have no sense of orientation at all without knowing it, so she would regulary confidently take the lead, and everyone would be lsot very fast.
The good part was that she was an extremely good engineer and inventor, in the “I can give one lesson or two to Frankeinstein” variety, so she alway had an immense stack of custom built gadget, which of course she misused. Like using her custom-made, intelligent doll of 20 cm tall as porter, even tho they were physically weak and quite intelligent. Or using a flying machine in a jungle, at ground level.
The thing that I wanted to do was to twist the concept of the whimsical mad scientist just a bit, to have somebody who don’t feel stereotypical but who is quickly understantable.
‘I finally figured out that I had assumed the girls would not be intered in me because I ranked fairly low on the guys’ pecking order.’
This is the kind of thing I read blog comments for–that is really insightful, and opened a whole new way of thinking for me about these kinds of situations. It’s mostly MEN who think that if you’re not on the football team, don’t own an expensive car, can’t lift a lot of weight, or whatever, then you’re worth nothing. Most women don’t judge men by these standards. Contrariwise, the traits women tend to value–openness, kindness, creativity, etc.–aren’t high priorities for ranking in the high school boy pecking order. So it does make (some) logical sense that boys that other boys don’t think measure up would assume girls thought the same way (unless, of course, they actually interacted with them).