While the rest of the Western world grapples with the horror of the Manchester bombing, Reddit’s incels are looking back three years to another terrorist massacre — and lauding the angry young incel who carried it out.
It’s been three years since a disturbed loner named Elliot Rodger murdered six and injured fourteen others in an extended rampage in Isla Vista, California, leaving behind a series of videos and a book-length manifesto detailing his deep hatred of, and equally intense desire for, women. Had he been able to get inside the sorority that was his primary intended target, the carnage would have likely been far worse.
Naturally, many of Reddit’s incels — self-described “involuntary celibates” — have embraced Rodger as an incel hero. In a series of posts in the Incels subreddit today, the regulars are celebrating what they call “Saint Elliot’s Day.”
In one thread with several dozen upvotes titled “Happy Saint Elliot’s day! The third anniversary of the day of retribution!” numerous Reddit incels sing the praises of the man they hail as the “supreme gentleman.”
A Redditor called thebillstone really, really wishes that Rodger had been able to get inside that sorority.
Naturally, some visitors to the subreddit are appalled by the celebration of a murderer:
![DigDugDactylus 27 points 6 hours ago* Do people here seriously support a serial killer? Edit: I thought people exxagerated, so I decided to check. People here need help permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]justendmefamThe only thing left to do is to dog 1 2 7 points 4 hours ago He's wasn't a serial killer first of all and second of all plenty of females admire serial and other killer](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el5.png?ssl=1)
But in fact not all incels think Rodger was a hero. Some are appalled to see fellow incels lionizing a mass killer — something that, at the very least, makes incels look bad.
![Know_What_Fvck_ThisRacecel: Enemy to All 5 points 8 hours ago Tbh, fuck this faggot, he's the reason we're associated with school shootings. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]xxxrivenmainxxx 0 points 2 hours ago school shooters are true heros](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el6.png?ssl=1)
Others look down on Rodger because his body count wasn’t higher, and not enough of his victims were women.
Still others complain that Rodger was simply too good-looking to be a true incel.
The Incels subreddit may be the scariest place on Reddit.
@wwth: I just finished rereading The Stranger Beside Me. I wonder if, as Ann Rule and many others believed, Bundy committed his first murder in adolescence. I think the subsequent murders were about more than revenge on his former girlfriend, but as you point out, yes, these guys might find Bundy admirable despite his looks and charm.
Dreemr,
Very nicely articulated. I was trying to figure out a way to say this very thing, without minimizing Victoria’s feelings in any way.
Well, okay. I’m done with this topic.
@dreemr but they did say things about poor social skills, which is something many people with ASD struggle with. When you conflate poor social skills with poor morality, it hurts a lot of innocent people. sometimes I’ve genuinely been anxious that people will assume I’m some sort of extremist because of the way I am, because so many people online think that poor social skills, weird talking, weird fait and extremism go together like peanut butter and jelly.
I don’t want to minimize Victoria’s feelings. It’s a painful topic and no doubt about it. Everything Victoria said is valid.
But be that as it may, I don’t think Iseult needs to be lashed for things they never said or implied.
@Victoria – no. There was no mention of social skills until you accused @Iseult of “dog-whistling” about ASD.
Look, as I said, I and I’m sure almost everyone here really does understand that it is a very tender and upsetting topic for you. Most of us have similar, not-far-different topics that upset us just as much. But please, be sure that you’re arguing something that’s really there. Iseult simply didn’t deserve this attack from you is all I’m saying.
I’m not saying that anything you’ve presented here isn’t valid, or that people don’t make the assumptions that you claim – it IS valid, and those assumptions are made all the time, and they shouldn’t be. I’m saying Iseult did not make those assumptions, you jumped to assuming that they did.
Anyway, that’s all I’ll say about it. I’m not the thread police. It bothered me to see someone being attacked for something they didn’t say, so I said something about it. That’s all. Have a pleasant evening.
I’m not trying to lash Iseult. Im trying to convince people to stop doing it because it’s hurtful. I try to recognize my own ways that I let social justice be mixed up with prejudices, and I think that kind of reflection within the community is important.
The reason I’m picking out that comment and criticizing it and arguing because I want more places online to be safe and welcoming to disabled people. so many feminist spaces will have people constantly making assumptions about people’s weight, social skills, age, etc… And when people try to point it out, a lot of times they react defensively and deny instead of self reflecting.
it’s not that I think you guys are bad. you guys are awesome! but I think some subtle prejudices against disabled people (that can’t necessarily be moderated away with bans on slurs) has wormed it’s way into the usual rhetoric you guys use. it’s not just about that comment, but a lot of the comments I see on this site.
…
These people are an echo chamber of vile.
Also, extra “go fuck yourself”s to the Bundy fanboy.
Dreemr, I agree totally. That being said,
Victoria, Iseult said and implied nothing of the sort. Iseult wrote a post, commenting on how incels describe themselves…and there was nothing inappropriate about suggesting counseling for their hatred, nor suggesting getting out of the toxic echo chamber that fuels it.
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” – Maya Angelou
Incels have shown us again and again who they are.
Okay, I’m side-eyeing this so hard right now.
You realize there are many people who are disabled and are on the spectrum commenting here, right?
I was being told over and over that Iseult never implied anything I went back and reread it. yes, saying someone has “low approachability” falls under the umbrella of criticizing social skills.
Every year this day is hard for me. I graduated from UCSB a couple weeks after this happened. I wrote and posted a thing on facebook about it today. I’m more messed up from it than I thought. I feel silly for it, because I was safe in my apartment writing a paper while it happened and I didn’t know any of the victims. But every year I am reminded how much some people hate my gender and in addition, some things have happened recently in my life to remind me so this year is extra rough. I’m taking it easy today and being very kind to myself. Thank you for exposing this awfulness; I am sure we will win in the end.
Yeah, and other people have criticized the use of “lives in the basement, is fat, has poor social skills, etc…” rhetoric used here before. I’m not the first.
Please link to the commenters who have specifically used that as criticism of the articles we comment on.
Thank you.
Then why lash out at Iseult?
People do that – call out ableism – all the time on this site. There’s a very simple way to do it – you call the person’s attention to it, quote the problematic phrase, and refer them to the comments policy. WHTM has a very strict comments policy against any kind of ableism so it’s not out of place to call it out here, but make sure you’re calling out a real instance of ableism. It happens. Most are pretty gracious when it’s pointed out, as it’s usually an unintentional lapse and nothing more.
If you’re going to pick out a comment that you feel is prejudicial against disabled people, then you should pick one that is actually prejudicial against disabled people. If you just wanted to discuss that topic, it could have been brought up in any of the Personal Threads. If you’d seen an actual case of prejudice or ableism, you could have called it out as outlined above, referring to the comments policy.
There were a lot of better ways to handle this than commenting in a fury at a person who didn’t even violate the standard you’re promoting.
You’re asking me to go through all David’s recent posts and link and quote every example of that? I’m on a phone you know, that’s not exactly easy to do.
it would be easier to make a more concerted effort to not use ableist rhetoric and point out when others do it as it’s actively being said but apparently the onus is on me to prove the community isn’t 100% perfect.
And I can’t remember who the users were or what post it was said on.
Okay, I’m not going down this path with you. I’ve said what I’ve had to say. You are the big believer in calling someone out and asking them to reflect – I have called YOU out and have asked YOU to reflect. And you’ve given me only defensiveness and doubling down. Now you are going to go so far as to claim that the words someone used to say that “assholes tend to be unappealing to women, and thus women tend not to approach them” is a slur against ASD?
Not buying it.
Reflect.
But it IS ableist to make comments about people’s approachability when you don’t even know whether they’re approachable or not. because, as i said, people with ASD are often thought of as being unapproachable. And at that point I wasn’t arguing with Iseult but with some of the other commenters responding to me.
This would be like someone saying “I bet they need to work on their trashy accent” or something if you see someone being racist online. it’s not cool.
Victoria, I am telling you straight up that none of the regular commenters here do what you have described. So yes, proof of your assertions is required.
Assholes can be charming, friendly and overall normal to be around. they don’t always have an “obnoxious way of speaking” or an “obvious scowl”.
BIG time side-eye, now.
I’m just saying misogyny comes from fathers, brothers and husbands and boyfriends. Not exclusively “creepy looking” people with no tact and no social connections.
Not sure if concern troll or well meaning but lacking in self awareness.
Please link to the commenters who have specifically used that as criticism of the articles we comment on.
Please give me specific examples of any of us doing this.
Everyone here already does call out abelism and slurs. You are accusing this community of using rhetoric it does not indulge in, and I am wondering if you are confusing WHTM with another site you may frequent? Because I can honestly say I am baffled as to where you are going with this, Victoria.
@TreePerson: I don’t know either, but my eyes are starting to hurt and my spidey senses are a-tingling.
Despite being present in this community for a while I guess I’m about to be accused of being a troll for making people uncomfortable by pointing out some of the harmful bias that sometimes occurs in the comments.
Again I really do like you guys but sometimes people will argue for social justice here in ways that do splash damage against other marginalized groups. I know a lot of people don’t know about disabled and neuroatypical issues and bias because we’re not the most politically vocal group (as a queer person I’ve often felt more discriminated against for my ASD than my sexual orientation/gender presentation). its a really common, almost universal to imply inferiority by implying disability to the people who hurt you. But it can’t go unquestioned, even if it’s uncomfortable or causes drama.