While the rest of the Western world grapples with the horror of the Manchester bombing, Reddit’s incels are looking back three years to another terrorist massacre — and lauding the angry young incel who carried it out.
It’s been three years since a disturbed loner named Elliot Rodger murdered six and injured fourteen others in an extended rampage in Isla Vista, California, leaving behind a series of videos and a book-length manifesto detailing his deep hatred of, and equally intense desire for, women. Had he been able to get inside the sorority that was his primary intended target, the carnage would have likely been far worse.
Naturally, many of Reddit’s incels — self-described “involuntary celibates” — have embraced Rodger as an incel hero. In a series of posts in the Incels subreddit today, the regulars are celebrating what they call “Saint Elliot’s Day.”
In one thread with several dozen upvotes titled “Happy Saint Elliot’s day! The third anniversary of the day of retribution!” numerous Reddit incels sing the praises of the man they hail as the “supreme gentleman.”
A Redditor called thebillstone really, really wishes that Rodger had been able to get inside that sorority.
Naturally, some visitors to the subreddit are appalled by the celebration of a murderer:
![DigDugDactylus 27 points 6 hours ago* Do people here seriously support a serial killer? Edit: I thought people exxagerated, so I decided to check. People here need help permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]justendmefamThe only thing left to do is to dog 1 2 7 points 4 hours ago He's wasn't a serial killer first of all and second of all plenty of females admire serial and other killer](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el5.png?ssl=1)
But in fact not all incels think Rodger was a hero. Some are appalled to see fellow incels lionizing a mass killer — something that, at the very least, makes incels look bad.
![Know_What_Fvck_ThisRacecel: Enemy to All 5 points 8 hours ago Tbh, fuck this faggot, he's the reason we're associated with school shootings. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]xxxrivenmainxxx 0 points 2 hours ago school shooters are true heros](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/el6.png?ssl=1)
Others look down on Rodger because his body count wasn’t higher, and not enough of his victims were women.
Still others complain that Rodger was simply too good-looking to be a true incel.
The Incels subreddit may be the scariest place on Reddit.
@Ooglyboggles
There’s so much wrong with some of these incel posters that I don’t even know where to begin. I DO know that sex won’t help any of it.
@Francesca Torpedo
Saddest LOL.
I’m not “dog whistling” about anything. I’m not implying or even thinking that most celibates are on the autism spectrum. I’m saying, if they’re socially awkward for non-medical reasons, therapy or even just talking to someone objective in 3-D real life meat space could be a great start on being able to behave normally around other people, even women.
Misogyny doesn’t start up in a vacuum. Yes, it’s ridiculous to blame women for the fact that you don’t know how to talk to women; but that’s the spiral some of these guys have been twirling down for a while. It started in middle school and they’ve never broken out of it.
Sure, I’m sure some of them are just hateful. I’m not willing to say that’s true for all of them.
But you have no idea if they’re socially awkward. you just assumed that because “lol misogynists on the internet are all fat, have poor hygiene and are socially awkward because there’s no way an ideal manly man could be misogynistic”
Look I’m not trying to argue in bad faith, but it seriously hurts me as an autistic person when you act like every bad person on the internet must have social issues, struggle with hygiene or talk/walk “weird”. it’s a genuinely hurtful thing.
And it’s entirely unnecessary to speculate about their social skills in the first place. it’s like talking about their penis size. you have no way of knowing and if they did have that issue that isn’t whats wrong with them.
Also the line between “medical” and “non medical” reasons for having issues with social skills is very blurry and you aren’t at any authority to decide whos genuinely is disabled or not.
@Ooglyboggles: I was talking about Ted Bundy the serial killer, not Cliven Bundy and his squatter buddies. 🙂
Edited to add: Of course, there’s also Al Bundy.
When people make fun of the way I walk or mock the way I talk or I lose a job because I can’t look an employer in the eye, they don’t care if it’s “medical” or non medical reason. that’s why it’s bad to stigmatized things like poor social skills and weird ways of talking.
@AsAboveSoBelow, Male Gaze Harvester
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/icarly/images/3/3e/Azumanga-Daioh-anime-7008876-1024-768.jpg
Yeah by the time the timer ran out I realized too late. Sorry mate I really got to stop thinking that my bugbear is the assumed bugbear.
EDIT: Oh Married With Children, you were a gem in showing how a terrible person gets their comeuppance in so many gratifying ways.
@Oogly
I, too, often think everyone is concerned about what I am worried about, only to realize too late that it wasn’t.
Now, if this were a Kafka novel, you’d respond ‘No, actually, that wasn’t what I was taking about. At all.”. And I would be further removed from feeling any connection with my fellow human beings, or, even, feeling, or being capable of recognizing anything as being real.
How did I get here?
Who are you people? What are you doing to me?
Incels: “Women won’t let me fuck them!”
Also Incels: “Lemme describe in graphic detail how I want to murder all women! In fact, let’s literally celebrate the death of any and all women no matter the circumstances!”
Jesus. This is fucking awful. Let’s just go full Medusa or something, fucking hell.
I really have no spoons today. None at all. Not for this, or after those poor girls in Manchester, or…anything. Just fuck. Fuck.
@Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
@Sandra
Here, you can have my spoons.
It’s the last few I had, but I don’t care anymore. None of this matters.
I just want you to feel better.
@Francesca
Thanks, but I can’t take those. I have a long day tomorrow, but I’ve built some systems into it that’ll help me to get by. Like cheese sticks. Those help a lot. I want you to get by and all.
I want you to feel better too.
There’s clearly something wrong with the way “incel’s” minds work, but it’s both incorrect and ableist to refer to them as “mentally ill”. I suggest we go with “mentally unfit”.
If someone can’t climb a flight of stairs because they use a wheelchair or have severe lung disease, that is not their fault. They don’t deserve to be censured or mocked for something that is absolutely out of their control.
If someone can’t climb a flight of stairs because they never exercise and are spectacularly unfit, it’s still not nice to mock or censure them. But you can point out that their own lifestyle choices have caused the problem, and suggest ways they can improve it.
If someone from the latter category insists stairs are an evil plot by fit people against them, posts endless screeds insisting they should be fit without doing any exercise, suggests that fit people should be killed for not allowing them to climb stairs and celebrates those who do kill fit people…that person is an arsehole. But it’s still not physical illness that’s preventing them from climbing those stairs.
Some people have mental illnesses such as major depression, schizophrenia, OCD etc. Their illnesses give them a tough time and they deserve help and compassion. Some people have life circumstances which impact on their ability to function. They deserve understanding and nudging in the right direction but they are not mentally ill. Some people have severely fucked up world views and revel in them, even going so far as to carry out mass murder or celebrate mass murderers. These people deserve scorn and revulsion but they are still not mentally ill.
But you can’t tell if someone has a physical disability by looking at them. someone can have trouble getting up stairs due to multitudes of invisible disabilities, and if you criticize someone’s “lifestyle” without actually knowing them, it’s just foolish and harmful to other people with invisible disabilities as they also get accused of being lazy and “probably like those others stair haters and totally unfit for society”.
Criticize the fact that they want to hurt people. criticize their misogyny. But don’t speculate about traits you don’t know they have and are mainly exhibited by marginalized people.
AsAboveSoBelow,
I can see why incels would love Ted Bundy, actually. He killed women who looked like his ex who dumped him. The young girl was his final victim and done out of desperation when he was on the run and unraveling and couldn’t take the time to troll for his preferred victim type. I’m sure they all fantasize about killing women who resemble one who rejected them at some point. Fucking assholes.
Also, for those who don’t know, Ted Bundy was a Republican party activist at one point. Shocking, I know.
@Sandra
Thank you. I still offer you at least one spoon, if you would like it, as a token of my appreciation to you. It isn’t critically important to anything and you are at liberty to refuse it without any stress on my part; I would merely like to help.
@Oogly-senpai
When you have a disability that isn’t immediately visible and obvious to the unobservant naked eye, most people will assume that you just have a “lifestyle” problem or a character flaw. When I walk slowly in public, people don’t think “oh, she’s autistic and thus can’t help the pace she walks at” they think “look at this slow jerk, I bet she just wants to inconvenience me and wasn’t taught right by her mom, what an asshole”
@Francesca
I accept this single spoon, and offer in return a single spoon. Thanks <3
Damn them all. Every last one of them.
My brother is obese and gets winded going up the stairs. He also walks constantly. He goes on multiple walks a day. It’s not uncommon for someone I know to say “hey, I saw WeirwoodTreeBrother out walking the day.” He also goes to the gym a couple times a week and works out with a personal trainer. So he gets a lot of exercise and is definitely not lazy. Still obese though.
I know Tosca’s comment didn’t mention obesity, but let’s face it, thin people don’t have their fitness policed like fat people do. I’ve never seen a thin person get judged for taking the elevator instead of the stairs.
Shrug. I still think incels are assholes.
Heck, even my partner, who uses a wheelchair, has been lectured by people who thought he wasn’t doing enough. that’s why I’m so “overly sensitive” when it comes to how disabled and mentally ill people are subtly scapegoated for societies ills.
I think incels are assholes too. I think they’re assholes because of their misogyny and hate. not because how i perceive their social skills/hygeine/appearance to be.
@wwth yeah, same thing goes with obesity. And don’t let me go on about how often people assume unlikable personalities online must be fat.
@WWTH
@Victoria
Okay, so, like, I used to be obese as a small child, and the experiences I had were totally awful.
You might think I learned from it, but, nah. Instead of recognizing that people were assholes and that there is no discernable reason why we should all be elegant, thin, svelte, super-athletic Pinnacles of Human Ability…
…I adopted their asshole attitudes, internalized their dislike of fat people, and became athletic and powerful and beautiful, studied martial arts, won awards for my accomplishments on my local swim team.
In short, I became an asshole and I realize that now. I may have caused myself a lot of harm and harm to others by idiotically conforming to the standard.
To this day I wish I’d never adopted this dumb standard and I feel terrible.
In all actuality, there is no need for us all to be perfectly slim and athletic.
Like in the case of WWTH’s brother, it’s like, holy fuck, excuse YOU, theoretical onlooker, for caring so fucking much about how much weight he has; we didn’t know he was actually being considered as the next fucking ISS Astronaut and the fate of entire developed nations rested upon whether or not he was a trifle plump, apparently!
@Victoria – you are very much reading into Iseult’s post a lot of things they never mentioned nor implied. I realize the topic is very personal for you, but please take a step back and consider what Iseult is saying. They recommended only that incel’s stop congregating together to amplify their aggressive misogyny together and perhaps seek out someone to talk to or therapy.
Nothing was said about disability. Nothing about hygiene. Nothing about ASD. Nothing at all. Nothing implied.
Since those are hot-button issues for you I am sure you are extra-sensitive to them when they’re brought up; in this instance, I honestly don’t think they were.
@Tosca – again, no one is saying or implying that incels are mentally ill. No one said they are suffering from a diagnosis of any sort.
Of course that doesn’t preclude reminders on the topic. I only mention it in light of @Victoria’s concerns.
I agree with @Iseult. I think these young men make their situation worse for themselves by seeking out amplification and reinforcement of their misogyny with each other, and they would be well served to take a step out of that environment and seek out someone to talk to in real life that might be able to steer them in a less self-defeating direction.