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terrorism

Explosion, many deaths at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester: Open Thread

One of the injured in Manchester

Terrible news: An explosion outside an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester has left at least 19 dead and 50 injured, according to press reports at the time of this writing. There are apparently indications it was a suicide bomber, but details are still scarce at this point.

Discuss, share info here. No trolls, etc.

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Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

Oh. She a disgrace making holocaust jokes and antimuslim comments at the same time. She can really be arrest for this though?

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Valentine, Hopkins is deadly serious. She’s unlikely to be arrested. She writes for the reliably vile Daily Mail, which confers a certain amount of freedom from consequences.

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@Alan

I see the suspect has been arrested in Chorlton. That’s where my aunt lives. This is turning into a bit of a strange day, to put in mildly.

EJ (the Scheming Liberal Race-Traitor)

@Ohlmann:

Thoses fake news are evil. They are less serious than the bomb, but they revolt me more, for reason I can’t adequatly put in words.

Yeah, I feel this way too. I think it’s because of the lack of any motive other than pure sadism. Say what you will about terrorists, at least they think they’re fighting for a better future. Internet assholes, on the other hand, are just doing it for the joy of hurting others.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ dan

I see the suspect has been arrested in Chorlton. That’s where my aunt lives. This is turning into a bit of a strange day, to put in mildly.

Yeah. I keep looking at the Guardian cover, and the guys helping people out of the venue. But I keep thinking that half an hour before it would all have been so normal. Just another gig. Standard roadie stuff. Mild boredom, nice easy night. Getting ready for the load out etc. Then this. It’s that juxtaposition thing again.

As to the suspect thing, one thing that’s common to these sorts of things is that in the immediate aftermath all sorts of stuff happens that eventually goes nowhere. So I’m trying not to speculate about anything until the facts are actually established.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@moggie so if she serious then shes not like milo because he is simply attention seeking. She is serious and she wants muslims to face ‘final solution’ and she writes for news paper too? i have to go on sleep now but probably wont. In less 5 hours have to work agian too. These kids here will be damaged forever by this. People like Katie Hopkins have no soul.

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
3 years ago

I also woke up to the news of this. Looking for the positive, I am reminded of…

“Look for the people helping – there are always people helping”

Taxi drivers offering free transport. Hotels offering free rooms. People offering their homes and their cars. Not to mention our stunning emergency services.

Mancunians show how it is done. The good outnumber the bad millions to one. As long as we stand together and refuse to give into hate, they will never win.

Crying for the broken families.

Andalusa
Andalusa
3 years ago

It appears so-called Islamic State have claimed responsibility.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

It’s not enough that the incels are saying the vilest possible things about the victims of the Manchester attack; they’re now celebrating because this is “Saint Elliot’s Day” (ie the anniversary of Rodgers’ murders).

I’m feeling really uncharitable towards them at the moment.

varalys the dark
3 years ago

Just saw the news, has hit me very hard. I was born in Manchester, went to Manchester Uni, lived there for the best part of a decade. Now I live just outside it but go in weekly to see my mum, two sisters and two nephews who live there and have seen many shows at that very venue. Just feeling horrible right now, seeing the photo of the eight year old who was killed brought tears to my eyes. I thought the 1996 IRA bomb that blew a massive hole in the city centre would be as bad as it got, but no one died in that attack (amazingly).

What’s doubly sad is that Manchester has one of the most integrated and long established Muslim community in the whole country (I lived in the main one). I know that they’ll be as horrified by what’s happened as the rest of us and I really hope there are no “reprisal” attacks against them =/

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

The second named victim was eight years old. Really hard to take this.

Valentine, Kate Hopkins and Milo are not entirely alike. With Milo, it’s been observed that it’s hard to know what he really believes in, other than fame and money. Hopkins certainly wants those too, and courts notoriety, but she appears to be genuinely far-right.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
3 years ago

It appears so-called Islamic State have claimed responsibility.

While I’m not denying this, I’m aware that they’d claim responsibility for any terror attack they can, whether they did it or not.

Still, the police have said it’s very unlikely the perp acted completely alone.

I’m feeling really uncharitable towards them at the moment.

I’ve lost all patience for anyone spewing hateful and/or far right sentiment. I will tell them exactly what they should hear. Their feelings become irrelevant when they choose to support vicious causes.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Apparently eight-year-old girls are “crusaders” now?

Victoria
Victoria
3 years ago

This is horrifying. I went to bed early when the news hit because I didn’t want to hear my family and family friends speculating about refugees and Muslims. which they inevitably would, knowing how racist they are (including the family friends, despite being young).

My dad and this dude were both repeating the “I saw a Facebook post that turned out not to be true so that means I can believe anything I want and pick the facts that make me feel good about my ideology” sentiment. you know “CNN is as bad as fox news” type stuff.

this dude has a little toddler and he’s gonna pass his views onto his kid. oh my god.

Victoria
Victoria
3 years ago

But I’m always worried in the wake of terrorist attacks that it’ll cause far right and Nazis to double down on things.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ sunnysombrera

While I’m not denying this, I’m aware that they’d claim responsibility for any terror attack they can, whether they did it or not.

There are certain formulae of words that ISIS use depending on whether an attack was directly planned by them, merely inspired/encouraged by them, or just one they want to take credit for regardless. There are also other clues in information they release (if it’s an actual ISIS planned operation they include certain details).

Here they’re using the ‘soldier of the Caliphate’ tag. That’s normally reserved for people they don’t know but who they assume supports them (they use ‘nom de guerres’ for their own people). They’ve also quoted a few details we now know to be wrong but that were mentioned in early news reports.

Of course it’s dangerous to speculate, but at this stage my thinking is that this is just a self radicalised perpetrator, of whom ISIS had no pre-knowledge; and who knows why he may have done what he did?

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@Varalys,

I hope you are okay and that everyone you know in Manchester is okay. My lot are originally from down the road near Buxton, and Manchester’s where, for instance, my gran goes for her hospital appointments. This will add another layer of worry for her when she goes (it’s already a pretty crap taxi/public transport journey of a couple of hours each way); though to be fair, she survived three separate V1 attacks in the 1940s, so she’s pretty hardcore.

Katie Hopkins can, respectfully, do one. She knew what she was doing when she said ‘final solution’, and she knew what she was doing when she deleted it. Hopefully, one day, when someone asks, as Valentine did, ‘Who’s Katie Hopkins?’, the only answer anyone will be able to give is ‘fucked if I know’. A terrible human being, and she’s getting no more of my attention today.

Victoria
Victoria
3 years ago

@DanHolme I hope you guys stay safe.

Citizen Rat
Citizen Rat
3 years ago

My heart goes out to Manchester.

All my bile, however, goes to everyone trying to gain something from this horrible act. I wish I could concentrate on grieving the loss of lives in what was a celebration of music and fun, but every time something like this happens my anger swells for every pundit and politician who gleefully push their god-awful rhetoric.

If there is a God, may She damn them.

varalys the dark
3 years ago

@DanHolme: Thanks, I phoned my sister just to be doubly sure and everyone is fine, just very shocked. I was due to visit them today, but rescheduled to to another day before this happened. Apparently this was a wise decision. The Arndale Centre were I was going to pop in to do some shopping was evacuated and the police are advising everyone try and keep out of the city centre still as investigations continue.

Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
3 years ago

I usually leave my computer for the day at suppertime and this was what was on my news shows. An expert on terrorism said that Daesh and Al-Quida usually won’t claim responsibility for things like this until they know the perpetrator/s are dead. She didn’t say so, but I got the impression that was so they won’t be able to contradict the terrorist’s narrative.

This is awful. I wish for best outcomes for everyone affected and mourn the lives lost and the damage to the rest.

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@Victoria

Thank you. Re your comment about ‘doubling down’, I worry about the same thing, but hopefully the reaction of the community, which has been well publicised, will go some way to stopping that from happening too much. Unless trolls like KH try and cause trouble for their own gain, of course. There’s an article about how people responded here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40011977

@Varalys

I’m glad to hear that your family are okay. It’s going to be a tough couple of weeks for everyone, I imagine. Related to what I wrote above, I see that prize berk Piers Morgan tried to demonise the Muslim community in an interview with some Corrie stars, who put him right pretty sharply.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

wat.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@Kat

The Bombing at a Manchester Ariana Grande Show Was an Attack on Girls and Women

Damned good point. Whenever one of these terrorist attacks go off in a quote-unquote “Western” country (the ones that occur in the Middle East are universally ignored), the tendency to read it as a “clash of civilizations” means that the context of the target is ignored in lieu of “Western values”. Charlie Hebdo was fairly obviously an attack against journalists and political cartoonists who antagonized Islam. But the context of other incidents like the November Paris attack seem to get lost in the nomenclature that forms: the “Paris attack,” as if it was meant as an assault on France’s capital itself. Remember, that one also started at a concert. It’s more than just a crowded venue, they’re striking at these targets deliberately, as the article indicates, to disrupt the daily lives of people. To make them think twice about to that next concert or sports game. Even better, alienate fellow citizens who happen to share a faith with the perpetrators, pushing them in the direction of the extremists.

That article also reminds us that the very sexism and misogyny that drives the religious fundamentalists of Daesh is rife in “Western” society as well. It just happens to be subtler than an IED. Enough cat-calls and online bullying will keep a young woman or girl from wearing the outfits she likes the same as any terrorist act, so it’s worth keeping that in mind before we become righteously indignant at the “Moose Lambs” (many of whom listen to Ariana Grande as well).

*sigh* The bloodshed is bad enough, but I just wish we didn’t have to go through the same song and dance where the usual suspects blame the whole religion, demanding Muslims justify their very existence again and again and again. It’s meant to tire the rest of us, but it does a good job of it…..

varalys the dark
3 years ago

I’m just sad people are getting frightened again. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, the heyday of the IRA targetting the UK mainland (and I don’t recall ordinary Catholics being forced to constantly justify themselves after every atrocity) and you always had it in the back of your mind when you went into the city that you might find yourself on the wrong end of an IRA bomb. This pretty much lasted until 1996 in the UK when the 1996 bomb went off in Manchester City Centre. After that there was a lovely period where kids like my youngest sister got to grow up without having to fear random explosions. And now it’s happening again. 🙁

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Varalys

I don’t recall ordinary Catholics being forced to constantly justify themselves after every atrocity

It’s finally happened. We’ve been nattering so much our brains have synched. Just made exactly the same point on the other thread. Spooky.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ gussie

the “Moose Lambs” (many of whom listen to Ariana Grande as well).

Just got that euphemism! But yeah, guy being interviewed last night who’d just picked his wife and daughter up is presumably Muslim. Like I say, the bit I can’t get out of my head was that the trip to the gig was a Christmas present. That just adds that extra layer of awfulness and cruelty. She must have been looking forward to this for months. And now this.

But for all the attempts at othering this was just a regular 12 year old girl excited about seeing her favourite pop star.

varalys the dark
3 years ago

@Alan: Snap! Or Jinx! Or something. It’s a point worth making twice anyway 🙂

Overly Long Name
Overly Long Name
3 years ago

I was near furious last night, when I first heard the news, because I knew it would be used to validate islamiphobic beliefs. I just feel deep inside me that this will be used to escalate the situation somehow, I mean it probably won’t but because of bureaucracy, but still this along with what happened in the Philippines makes me scared for an even further rise in islamiphobia. Sorry if this is dumb or repetitive just felt the need to say something somewhere.

Bina
3 years ago

The only thing more senseless than this mass murder is the right-wing so-called response to it. Everyone from Geraldo Fucking Rivera and Katie Fucking Hopkins to the deservedly-celibate incels can just kiss my ass today. People are dead, and they’re looking to score political points off it. How are they any better than Daesh? (Spoiler: They’re not. Not one infinitesimal bit.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Bina

They’re not. Not one sub-microscopically tiny bit

That’s just it, you can’t get a blue Rizla+ paper between them ideologically. It’s all hate, and mainly towards same targets.

And they both have the same aims. ISIS talk about ‘eliminating the gray zone’. That’s just making sure Muslims and non-Muslims don’t trust each other and feel they can’t live together. How’s that different from what our wanker friends want? As you rightly point out, it isn’t. They’re all aiming for the same goal.

(I nearly said “playing into ISIS’ hands”, but that would imply there’s something inadvertent about it. There’s not, they overtly and consciously want the same thing.)

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

@ Alan

Yeah, I stole “Moose Lambs” from that original sketch of Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer using the props during a press conference. The fact that the stuffed lamb was literally Lambchop herself just made it all the more funny.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ overly long name

the terror threat level in Britain has been raised from severe to critical

That’s pretty standard and we shouldn’t read too much into that. There’s no specific intelligence that suggests further attacks. It’s just that sometimes there can be follow up attacks so they assume that out of an abundance of caution. Just means a slightly more overt security presence on the streets for a week or so until everyone’s nerves have settled. It’s a reassurance thing as much as a practical one.

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
3 years ago

“This is the place”

“Choose Love Manchester”

Haise, the husky puppy
Haise, the husky puppy
3 years ago

@ Redsilkphoenix

I admit I’m naive to Yahoo’s comments being terrible since I just read the articles and leave. Barely any decency in the comments especially on any article regarding Trump / LGBT topics. It’s like treading through a tar pit.

And I seriously regret reading some of the incels` reactions. Drawing utter bullshit parallels between being the victim of an explosion/attack and their voluntary celibacy is vile. Children died and according to them, they deserved it because they – the girls would have grown up to not sleep with them. Fucking disgusted but not surprised coming from them.

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

“Choose Love, Manchester.”

I am crying so hard right now.

Bryce
Bryce
3 years ago

The public seems to forget that the majority of ISIS victims have been other Muslims, that a good percentage migrants and refugees are here to escape attacks these sort of attacks that had become near routine events for them. Of course it will be law abiding Muslims or Sikhs who deal with a completely pointless fallout.

Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
Francesca Torpedo, Femoid Special Forces Major
3 years ago

President Evil Loser described the attackers as “evil losers”

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 years ago

Hello.

sorry for the lateness.
All my condolences for manchesterers and britons.
I hope you will not have the second bad effect of terror attacks, which is reclamation by far-righters and ultra-nationalists.

Bacon
Bacon
3 years ago

So after the attack, and then the racist backlash, we now have this to deal with too…

http://uk.businessinsider.com/amber-rudd-manchester-terror-attack-salman-abedi-us-condemned-leaks-2017-5

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ bacon

British officials have expressed their “irritation” to the US.

To translate from British understatement, “expressed irritation” means ‘considered assassination and/or Trident launch’.

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@Alan

As I write this, I am ‘expressing my irritation’ about student behaviour to a group of said students, in detention.

You might be able to hear it from Cornwall.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Dan

This is probably the most famous example of British understatement causing problems with our American cousins.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/14/johnezard

ETA: Oh, where’d you go?

Austin Loomis
3 years ago

Yeahnopelous has actually weighed in on the bombing, with all the class and decorum we’ve come to expect from him. The only reason I pay attention to him, or even click on specific reminders of him, is because I don’t want to miss hearing about it when his efforts to be the Ernst Röhm of the new millennium inevitably end up in the same place the original did.