Meanwhile, on Reddit …

As the sister of a very nice and non-misogynistic autistic man, I’m really fucking sick of people blaming virulent misogyny of autism. Fuck off, KL.

You’d better be a drive-by. As it is, I’m not known for being nice to trolls. But now that you’ve brought out the protective big sister, I will be very unkind if you show your face here again.

Just saying.

The first premise though is outrageously false (and offensive), so the argument fails.

The argument also fails because it’s just bad logic. It’s the same construction as “all cats have four legs/all horses have four legs/therefore horses are cats.” The technical flaw is that it suffers from an undistributed middle term; you haven’t said anything comprehensive about things with four legs/with obnoxious behaviors, and you need to say something about all members of your middle term in order for logic to happen.

I still haven’t met any misogynistic autistic people. And I’ve met lots of people with autism.

I don’t think there’s any correlation between the two at all. The assholes are using autism as an excuse for being assholes, when it’s actually just that they’re assholes. They’d be assholes if they were neurotypical too.

Well darn, guess I’ll have to scratch this reddit guy off my list of dudes. At least he helpfully took himself off without wasting any of my time which could be spent sucking d#cks that aren’t his. 😉

Okay, I went and looked at the Reddit thread and can answer many of the questions raised here.

Ya know, I think I’m going to stop shaking hands with people. All people. What if they masturbate with their shaking hands?

Someone asked him this. He said he doesn’t shake hands. Didn’t say whether it was because of all the semen.

Suppose he meets a nice woman who can tolerate him being such a charmer and they get married. She’s never had sex before, never had icky semen in her mouth, but with him she does it. Is she a ”creature” that doesn’t deserve respect anymore?

He said it’s okay if it’s his semen. I’m sure you’re all shocked.

So do people who perform oral sex on cisgender women have faces that are permanently shellacked with vaginal fluid? Asking for a friend.

He doesn’t know because he only associates with other male incels. Other guys posted that only beta cucks go down on women. Yup, they’re involuntarily celibate, these guys.

Oh, and other queries revealed that he absolutely does not want any kind of relationship. He will only accept casual sex with a near-stranger. But she has to be a virgin!

Also! It looks like the subreddit is set so that posting the word “standards” brings up the following automatic post explaining why it’s unfair to ask incels to, you know, actually do anything to get girlfriends or get laid or whatever it is they’re convinced will make them happy. I’ll leave this for yinz to gaze at in wonder:

Since women are so used to having dating options, it is unthinkable to them that there are people with no dating options. But this is the reality: There are many males that have literally zero options. There is strong demand for even the ugliest of women. The top 20% of men get the top 80% of the women, and the bottom 80% of men fight like dogs over the remaining 20% of women. This is why in a sexually free society, even the ugliest most deformed obese women can get males of average attractiveness. People tell incels ‘just lower your standards’. The truth is that there are not nearly enough deformed obese women for every incel to get one. Many incels would kill to have a deformed obese girlfriend, but even deformed obese women refuse to be with them because they can get better looking guys. When you have zero options, ‘lowering your standards’ won’t get you a girlfriend.

He will only accept casual sex with a near-stranger. But she has to be a virgin!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d1833fd3c36fc6cc530feee125a830a4/tumblr_mswot4wCPd1s00ervo2_r2_500.gif

I’m still confused about how they think that works out- the top 20% of men getting the top 80% of women. Is that a straight four-to-one ratio, is it normally distributed, is it skewed left so Chad has to keep up with 30 women at a time, how does this work? Given that women and men have, on average, pretty similar sex drives, if the Chad Theorem is how it works, Idris Elba should have been a tumbleweed blowing down the road years ago.

@Shaenon

The top 20% of men get the top 80% of the women, and the bottom 80% of men fight like dogs over the remaining 20% of women

Let’s ignore the bullshit that is splitting up people into attractiveness quintiles. This math don’t add up. How do 20% of men have 80% of women as girlfriends?

This only works if men are all (or mostly) poly, women are all (or mostly) mono, gender is strictly binary, and nobody likes anything but the binary opposite of themselves. Nope

Or if maybe incels really do need to lower their standards. Cos one of those standards seems to be ‘virgin’. Methinks, they think ‘80% of gals are with 20% of guys’ is equivalent to saying ‘80% of gals have been with 20% of guys’

Both statements are blatantly, absurdly incorrect, but it just goes to show how these people think. If these guys can’t even talk to a woman knowing she’s had sex, how’s he to be expected to have a relationship or, yes, have sex with a woman knowing she’s had sex? I for one am glad their ‘standards’ are so ‘high’. The more space between them and other human beings, the better off the world is…

@ peevee

Do you mean as in give each other advice to be nice to attract women, or just to be nice in general? I mean, are they all caustic assholes to each other in the threads?

Short answers; yes and yes.

Recommendations to be nice are frowned upon because it’s not true, women only like abusers.

And there’s a real bucket of crabs mentality. Also it’s a competition as to who’s the most ‘sub human’. One person will post how he’s doomed because of his maxilla and everyone will leap on him about how he’s lucky, it’s wrist size that’s the major factor (not joking, there’s a whole subset of ‘wristcels’)

@ POM

Yeah, I was going to mention undistributed middle, but I couldn’t remember the term. But cause and effect is something they have trouble with. If people point out women may be reluctant to date guys who hate them they’ll claim they pre-emptively hate women because they know they won’t date them (only Chad).

OMG I just googled wristcel. Jesus Christ wept.

How do these people think the rest of us ever get laid if you can be rendered incel for life by skinny wrists or an overbite. Maybe they should screw each other (I suppose that would be worse than staying a virgin, to settle for another incel)

There is strong demand for even the ugliest of women. The top 20% of men get the top 80% of the women, and the bottom 80% of men fight like dogs over the remaining 20% of women.

I know this is their idea of a dystopia but it sounds sort of nice. I’d be happy sharing Tom Hiddleston with three other people if it meant I didn’t get harassed by these guys.

@KL

“Asshole” is not a mental illness. You asshole.

They can’t really bitch about it being an involuntary condition if they refuse to even try to reach out, due to all women being icky and whatnot.

It’d be more honest to call themselves volcel or whatever, because they, themselves, made the decision that sex with “the wimmenz” was just too disgusting to contemplate.

So you waded through a whole sub-Reddit full of men with autism and other crippling social disabilities to find one to criticize? You could find misogynists and misanthropes with depression and schizophrenia too. You lack compassion and are literally picking on social cripples.

Hi there, I’m both autistic and schizophrenic. You might notice that I’m not a misogynistic paedophilic neo-Nazi rapist. This is because mental illnesses, disabilities, disorders and differences are real things that real people have, not just what-ifs and lies used to half-assedly cover for the worst pieces of shit our genus has to offer.

Also, it’s kind of hard to take your concerrrn seriously when you drop slurs like “Cripple” on me. Go eat a bucket of bees, you utter waste of the human gestation period.

(Yep, I’m dogpiling. Nope, I don’t care. Using schizophrenia as his shield makes this one personal.)

Do these cockwombles not realise that there is not a single man on the planet who would not be celibate if he displayed just 10% of the toxic attitudes, hate and entitlement that they do.

But of course they do, and probably not a single one of them started out genuinely believing what they read and write: the whole thing is just a hobby of whining on the internet.

The sad part (for them) and what they probably don’t realise, is that their self immersion in that culture is changing them, and not in a good way. It poisons any hope they might have for future happiness with a life partner. The effect seems to me to be very similar to cult brainwashing, but in this case, self inflicted.

@ peevee

It’d be more honest to call themselves volcel or whatever

Within the Incel community ‘volcels’ are a specific subset of ‘fakecels’. And this is one of the many issues they tear into each other about.

It also crops up in the war between incels and MGTOWs (they hate each other too). The debate is whether MGTOWs are genuine Volcels, or really just Incels but won’t admit it.

I still can never get over the wrist circumference obsession. It’s so bizarre. I have literally never heard a single person who is attracted to men talk about this as a turn or off. Not one. And lots of people find traits beyond the stereotypical tall, dark and handsome attractive in a man. But this? I’m sure someone with a thing for big manly wrists exists but there’s no way it’s typical.

I wonder how this even got started?

How do these people think the rest of us ever get laid if you can be rendered incel for life by skinny wrists or an overbite.

If you’ve gotten laid, you must be a paragon of masculinity with movie-star looks, thick, lustrous wrists, and 9,000 girlfriends, whom you beat.

If you’ve gotten laid and you’re just kind of a regular guy, you must be a pathetic beta cuck who settled for a woman who’s defective in some way. She’s not a virgin, or she’s over 25, or she’s less than a 10, or she’s totally going to cheat on you any day now. The incels take great pride that they have higher standards in women than you.

Not that they have standards! They are involuntarily celibate! But you can’t expect them to accept subpar women.

That subreddit is seriously depressing, though.

I wonder how this even got started?

I actually know the answer to this one: Before it got lost to time and turned literal, it started off as yet another dick euphemism.

RE: Cels

I have heard of this thing called Currycels, where you can’t get laid because you’re Indian (subcontinental)?

And, like. Just like how Hoteps make me upset that black dudes are doing the whole misogyny thing, it’s upsetting to me that Indian dudes are picking up this nonsense.

DON’T DO THING, GUYS.

NO DO

I actually hadn’t heard of “Currycels”. Thanks.

Ughhhh. Men. Being fair, it’s not that Indian dudes are new to misogyny – we’ve had stuff on this site talking about a couple of Indian internet misogyny things, and I have a German friend who’s constantly harassed by Indian men on the internet. What is new is this terminology on the internet.

Sometimes I wonder how men have lived this long if the simplest things escape their grasp. You would think that men who couldn’t figure out that “Sharp teeth = danger” or “Words mean what they mean” would not have lived long enough to whinge on the internet. Just….oof.

Alan,

Within the Incel community ‘volcels’ are a specific subset of ‘fakecels’. And this is one of the many issues they tear into each other about.

It also crops up in the war between incels and MGTOWs (they hate each other too). The debate is whether MGTOWs are genuine Volcels, or really just Incels but won’t admit it.

Oh, FFS. What heaping pile of pure, unadulterated horseshit.

Kudos for diving into this world to attempt to understand it. My skull would have fractured from it meeting my palm or desk so many times. I just…can’t even.

Alan:

And there’s a real bucket of crabs mentality. Also it’s a competition as to who’s the most ‘sub human’. One person will post how he’s doomed because of his maxilla and everyone will leap on him about how he’s lucky, it’s wrist size that’s the major factor

Is this like Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshiremen”, if I remember the sketch title correctly?

@ Arctic Ape

Is this like Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshiremen”

Heh, remember my recent post about the Goodies getting annoyed when people attribute their work to Monty Python? 🙂

But yes, there’s constant battling about who has it worse.

(That sketch was a collaboration between future Goodies and Pythons for a programme called ‘At last, the 1948 show’ but apparently it was mainly Tim Brooke Taylor’s idea. The Pythons did later perform it, but not before the Goodies did, albeit they weren’t called that then. Phew, any of that make sense?)

“At the tender age of 14 I was already rejected by women for having the social skills of a poorly socialized teenager!”

“That’s nothing! At the age of 13 I was already rejected by women for having a soft and beardless face!”

“That’s nothing! At the age of 12 I was already rejected by women for having a five inch wrist circumference!”

“You’re all fakes! At the age of 10 I was already rejected by women for being less than five feet tall!”

@WWTH
“I still can never get over the wrist circumference obsession. It’s so bizarre. I have literally never heard a single person who is attracted to men talk about this as a turn or off. Not one.”

Personal experience: I think that some bisexuals (and some lesbians) sometimes have a thing for wrists/hands. Maybe that’s where this comes from?

I dunno, I find it bizarre as well. And I say that as a girl that finds arms, wrists, and hands sexy.

@ mrex

I say that as a girl that finds arms, wrists, and hands sexy.

Thing is happy to hear that. 🙂

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/EF90F5/thing-the-addams-family-1964-EF90F5.jpg

@Alan

Yes, can we talk about how manly Thing is? Just look at those strong wrist bones that perfectly complement those smooth, tapering fingers. *fans self*

Incels, go ahead and weep. 😉

If I’m already attracted to someone, I will lust over their hands and wrists (they can do things to me with their hands), but I don’t rank random people on the street by the size of their arm joints.

(Edit: Huh. Can’t believe I never thought of the erotic possibilities of Thing before.)

Part of me wants to feel sorry for their obvious unhappiness.

The rest of me wants to dry heave at how unnecessary their unhappiness is. I was seriously conflicted about my sexuality in college (cradle Catholic and being gay can do that to one), but it never occurred to me to blame it on the men to whom I was attracted. A lot of therapy and a willingness to work on my issues had a salutary effect on my life.

Personal experience: I think that some bisexuals (and some lesbians) sometimes have a thing for wrists/hands. Maybe that’s where this comes from?

I think that as society gets more open about what makes their naughty bits happy/unhappy, we’ll be finding out more about things we haven’t previously considered erotic, (or in the case of some people, slapped the “cel” label to.)

(Edit: Huh. Can’t believe I never thought of the erotic possibilities of Thing before.)

Dammit, I never have, either…now I will be watching old Addams Family re-runs in an entirely now light. 😊

I had always thought that the word “tits” for female breasts was a variant on “teats”, but apparently “tit” was the older form (probably of Germanic origin) and “teat” superseded it in Middle English (also Germanic but coming to England via French). I think they were probably both in common use and might well have been alternative dialect forms, but somehow “tit” came to apply more to humans and therefore became “naughtier.” In any case, a graph of the use of the word teat has an interesting form: it shows a very clear nipple of use arround 1950.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjYoda18vDTAhWD1RoKHZSbB4wQhCwIMDAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fngrams%2Fgraph%3Fyear_start%3D1800%26year_end%3D2008%26corpus%3D15%26smoothing%3D7%26case_insensitive%3Don%26content%3Dteats&usg=AFQjCNGBXj9oMQEZ-M3YN_PDCcES5eA0kg

Regarding incels, I have always (since I first heard of them after Elliot Rodger) sensed that they suffer from a very deep fear of women and/or sex and/or relationships that they aren’t willing to admit or confront. Classic toxic masculinity teaches that men should be strong, independent, and emotionally invulnerable. It is easier to complain about women being shallow creatures who refuse to fuck you, and make up totally false reasons why they won’t, than to admit that you fear losing your emotional independence and becoming vulnerable and that you purposely act in a way that keeps women away from you. No Real Man (TM) can possibly admit that he’s afraid of becoming emotionally entangled in a sexual relationship.
Women on this site frequently complain that they are expected to behave in ways that are mutually exclusive; e.g., have sex with any man who wants them but be virgins. Men also often face a somewhat similar sort of conflicting demands, which women find hard to understand because the demands are falsely attributed to them but are actually enforced by other men. Real Men (TM) are supposed to have a lot of sex with a lot of women without falling in love, which just isn’t all that easy for most men to pull off. To quote my favorite singer/songwriter, Christine Lavin:

He is afraid of attainable love
Afraid it will envelop him, swallow him up

I am sorry that the wrist thing is not true: I have large wrists, and being more attractive to women would have been a nice compensation for having a terrible time finding large enough watch bands.

Hello.

I wonder if parcels are packed incels…
Someone said they are at war with MGTOW ? Why ? The both groups spit on women and are quick to blame them for anything they think is wrong in their life. That is a sad but strong common point.

Have a nice day.

@ occasional reader

Someone said they are at war with MGTOW ? Why ?

The internecine wranglings in the manosphere are complex, and not always consistent. But basically it boils down to:

Incels hate MGTOWs because:

(a) why would anyone be volcel if they had the option not to be?
(b) they don’t believe MGTOWs are volcel, but just incels who won’t admit it.

MGTOWs hate incels because:

(a) they’re obsessed with women, whereas MGTOWs are loftily above such base desires and of course narey give women a second thought.
(b) incels longing to have sex with women validates women, even the low SMV ones, so women get ideas above their station which spoils them for men generally.

Of course Incels and MGTOWs argue amongst themselves on exactly the same grounds.

> Alan Robertshaw

Oh, ok, thank you for the explanation. I was thinking people were going their supposed own way because they were “incels”, in order to look like a person who was taking her own decisions.
So it is just a matter of so called involuntary or voluntary celibacy, the rest is exactly the same. Right. Maybe that makes them both volassholes. Volasshes ?

occasional reader – Now I’m wondering if parcels are guys who claim they can’t get laid because they deliver packages for a living…

@ hambeast

Now I’m wondering if parcels are guys who claim they can’t get laid because they deliver packages for a living…

Parcels are guys who get rejected because of their disappointing golf scores.

That must be why both China and Vietnam have been stationing special forces soldiers on the Paracel islands.

…

I’ll see myself out.

Hambeast, have you seen some of the drivers?? I’d totally do the UPS guy!*
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*Mr. PeeVee works at UPS.

Here’s a real winner, Ladies. I’m sure we’ll all soon be slapping each other and pulling one another’s hair for the privilege of getting a piece of him. I simply can’t understand why he’s been sex deprived from a young age. I suppose it’s all because of Chad Thundercock.

@KL aka not so stealthy MGTOW

“So you waded through a whole sub-Reddit full of men with autism and other crippling social disabilities to find one to criticize? You could find misogynists and misanthropes with depression and schizophrenia too. You lack compassion and are literally picking on social cripples.”

These guys are “social cripples” because they’re misogynistic assholes, not because they’re autistic or have “crippling social disabilities.”

The majority of people with autism, depression, schizophrenia, or any other such issues don’t say crap like this.

My son is high-functioning autistic and lives with major depression. He would never say anything like the crap above.

I’m suspecting that you’re the author of said crap. However, whether or not that is the case, you need to assess why you feel the need to defend it or to make people with neurological or psychological issues out to be awful human beings.

lmao what a crock of shit

I have tiny wrists, but that has had zero impact on my sex life.

Like honestly, I could have been an ideal incel (small wrists, below-average height, small physique, lots of social difficulties, very quiet and shy, virgin until 18) except for the part where I didn’t blame others for my unhappiness, and worked really hard to improve my skill at social situations while also not being a raging asshole. Magically, despite all my immutable physical “setbacks”, I no longer have much difficulty finding physical intimacy.

@ dlouwe

I have tiny wrists, but that has had zero impact on my sex life.

You’ve got cool hair though; maybe that swings it. 🙂

Wrist…circumference? I can’t think of a thing I’ve ever paid less attention to, when gazing upon a man.

Stop making excuses, “incels.” You’re not involuntarily celibate. You’re not helpless. Feel nervous and awkward? Take a Dale Carnegie course or join Toastmasters. Take ballroom dance lessons. Learn about wine, or how to cook your favorite style of cuisine. Get off the Internet and read some good literature or go for a walk. Take some responsibility and improve your damn selves.

Pointless to say it? Yes, but I couldn’t stand it anymore. This really bums me out, all these guys wasting their lives in this way.

actually im none of these. since young age i was sex deprived

So by that logic, I was lucky to have started having sex at age seven?
Pretty sure that most folks of a young age are sex-deprived. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

Stop making excuses, “incels.” You’re not involuntarily celibate. You’re not helpless. Feel nervous and awkward? Take a Dale Carnegie course or join Toastmasters. Take ballroom dance lessons. Learn about wine, or how to cook your favorite style of cuisine. Get off the Internet and read some good literature or go for a walk. Take some responsibility and improve your damn selves.

Yeah, this.

What’s sad is that for all their desire of it, they don’t seem to actually enjoy the idea of sex. There’s no conception of “finding a person you respect, and mutually creating an experience which both of you will enjoy.” Rather, they just seem to want sex because it’s a marker of male social status. The mythical 18-year old virgin Asian HB10 is only valued inasmuch as she shows them that they’re better than other men.

As Sarkeesian said, in the game of patriarchy women aren’t the other team: women are the ball.

@RosieLa:
Hugs, dude. That’s awful.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6c0po6/gambler_got_a_blog_post_written_about_one_of_his

And they’ve made a post about this blog entry – weeee!

One of the most frustrating things for them has to be how much attention they get anymore… and it still doesn’t get any of their dicks any wetter.

When truecels went down and all of the replacements started mushrooming up, in the mix was a private sub (r/truecelsprivate) and is supposedly dead, since nobody wants go there.