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Alt-Right “traditionalists” don’t understand the world they want us to return to, part 973

Cover detail from Sept-Oct 1960 issue of “Going Steady,” a comic book aimed at teen girls

No one should be turning to the neo-Nazi online tabloid The Daily Stormer for dating advice, but on the off chance that you are, I have to warn you that they don’t know what they’re talking about.

I mean, they don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to pretty much everything, but in this case their ignorance involves what actually went on in the supposed 1950s cultural paradise they want to return us to, forcibly if necessary.

In a post with the sarcastic title “Dating Advice: The Key to Good Relationships is Cheating on Your Boyfriends,” regular Daily Stormer contributor “Zeiger” takes aim at a “fat Paki skag” dating expert who has the temerity to argue that women searching for “the One” should date a bunch of guys casually before committing to one of them.

I know, shocking.

Well, it is to Zeiger.

Not so long ago, women didn’t feel like they needed dating advice. After all, they just had to stand around somewhere until a man came to them and took care of everything for them.

All they had to worry about was serving him beer and cooking his food right so he didn’t dump their ungrateful asses.

Zeiger illustrates this point with a magazine illustration from the 1950s depicting happy teenage girls learning to bake a cake, so it’s pretty clear what romanticized past Zeiger is harking back to.

Alas, we have fallen so far from this imaginary paradise!

But in the era of NUMALE faggots and Jew feminism, women are confused. They think it’s somehow their job to understand relationships. This is already a completely insane concept.

But it gets worse.

These days, they’re getting their relationship advice from insane Paki sluts.

The “Paki slut” in question is a “relationship coach” named Sami Wunder who was recently featured in the British tabloid The Express. Despite Zeiger’s headline, Wunder does not actually suggest that women cheat on their boyfriends. Rather, she recommends that women looking for a husband date multiple men, non-exclusively, holding off on serious committment until one of them pops the question.

Whatever you think of this advice, it’s hardly “cheating” to date more than one person when you’re not in an exclusive relationship, presuming everyone is on the up and up on this.

Zeiger is outraged by the very idea.

I guarantee that no real man would “put a ring” on the finger of some hoe who cheated on him with a bunch of other guys. A “man” so pussy-whipped would more appropriately be called a “humanoid slug.” …

What this shows is the urgent need women have for stable, healthy relationships. And that is something that can only be provided by WHITE SHARIA – not fat Paki whore dating advice.

Zeiger’s anger here seems to stem from the same mix of entitlement and insecurity that drives the alt-right obsession with “cucks” and “cucking.” These are men who, on some level, feel entitled to any attractive woman who wanders into their field of vision, and feel betrayed — even “cucked” — when any of these women date or marry or just have sex with some guy other than them.

But we’re not just entitlement we’re dealing with here. More than a few alt-rightist dudes — and manosphere dudes generally — fetishize nubile young virgins, not just because they’re creepy dudes who are way too into women and girls far too young for them, but because virgins have no way to compare their sexual prowess with other men. Many manosphere dudes are quite open about this anxiety, complaining that women who’ve been with more than one guy will endlessly compare them with their earlier partners.

These are the same guys who go around boasting about what “alphas” they are.

But there’s another giant irony in Zeiger’s piece: dating in the 1950s, at least at the start of the decade, looked a lot more like Wunder’s world than Zeigers in some crucial respects.

In the 40s and early 50s, teenagers were encouraged to “play the field,” casually dating an assortment of not-quite-steady partners rather than committing to a single person.

It wasn’t until later in the decade that teens began to shift en masse to the more familiar (to us, that is) strategy of “going steady.” And far from welcoming this new monogamy, many parents were horrified. Magazines at the time were filled with alarming articles on the supposedly grave dangers of going steady.

Here’s one from 1960 warning teens that going steady might be “too dangerous” for them.

Here’s one from 1957 examining the potential “immorality” of going steady.

And here’s a graphic from a pamphlet or magazine article from the era wondering when it was “too early” for teens to go steady.

And parents actually had some legitimate reasons to worry. On the one hand, they worried that teens who “went steady” without dating around first would settle down with the first person of the opposite sex who was nice to them, not realizing they could have done better.

On the other hand, they worried that teens who “went steady” would also end up going further sexually — which could lead, as sex often does, to pregnancy and too-early marriage. Indeed, the age of first marriage dropped precipitously in the 1950s as more teens married, helping to contribute to the spiraling divorce rates of the 1960s and 1970s as these too-hasty marriages fell apart.

It was kind of a screwed-up decade; happily, the sexual revolution of the 1960s convinced a hefty chunk of Americans young and old that 1) sex isn’t the end of the world and 2) it isn’t always such a great idea for teens to settle down forever with the very first person they have sex with.

The weird thing is that the 1950s parents, for all their faults, were more interested in girls and young women having choices than are the alt-rightists of today.

Parents in the 1950s worried that their daughters would end up getting too seriously involved with the wrong guys because they had no good basis for comparison.

Alt-rightists and manosphere dudes today are apparently afraid that no women will settle for them if they realize there are other men out there who aren’t, you know, reactionary racists who think women shouldn’t really be allowed to make their own decisions about anything.

I’m thinking they’re probably right to worry about this. And I’m glad.

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Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@Franscesca : if you have money, it’s soooo fun. If you don’t, well. I would not do that if I were you.

Note that, while as usual the more different you look the worst it will be, being a white french isn’t a protection against racism in small town. Being poor, from the wrong (french) region, from the wrong social group, or anything else is quickly latched on to put blame on you for basically anything. In WW2, there were a lot more people willing to turn in jews than willing to sabotage trains . The 1/3 of naked fascists that have voted for Le Pen don’t come from nowhere.

The one thing that amuse me is to see that white, affluent friends are litteraly never checked for identity paper or subway tickets ; I am checked about once or twice per month ; some (affluent) arab friend are checked every week. I guess it’s worse for actual suburb arab inhabitants.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Also, my grandmother actually ran in fear at the end of the WW2. A black GI stopped in her village, and since she never had seen a black people before she though it was some kind of abomination or demon.

It was an extrem case even for 1945, but I think it explain a lot of things about racism in France and how it’s subtly different from racism in America. Non-white aren’t uppity ex-servants to be put at their place, they are newcomers that should continue their travel elsewhere.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Arctic

Sorry, I meant to clarify, I meant the sentiment where victory for lesser evil would be considered the best case outcome and worth celebrating

Guaranteed the actually evil people woulda celebrated had they won. Ours did. Murican as I am, I consider stopping fascists at the gate to be a victory. Vive la France!

@Ohlmann

Non-white aren’t uppity ex-servants to be put at their place, they are newcomers that should continue their travel elsewhere

Hmmm… Interesting. Thanks for the insight 🙂

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

Ohlmann, you reminded me of when I lived in Paris for a while – I was never stopped, but my boyfriend (who had been living there considerably longer) was stopped every few days. Instead of just showing his ID, he used to respond by raising his hands and/or putting his hands up against the wall of the metro tunnel, very visibly assuming the position to be frisked. That used to piss them off quite a bit sometimes, I gather. (Yes, it was a piss-take – but only partly. The reason he was actually in Europe at all, on a UN refugee travel document, was because the police disappeared people where he came from. So he did it as a joke-but-also-not-a-joke-at-all, if you see what I mean).

JS
JS
3 years ago

I think “black people don’t like boats” is another one of those “subtle” racist stereotypes/sayings, referring back to slave ships. I’ve definitely seen PoC having fun on boats.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@ fran

Lots of black people work at sea. It is normal 🙂 do not listen to others.

And in my company we had a 2nd engineer who went home, and transition from male to female and came back. She was very brave but no one fucked with her i promise, only telling the story. She gone to different company now i think. Also definately lots of gay and lesbian and bisexual people at sea.

Francesca Torpedo
Francesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Valentine

Thanks!

You may be wondering why us Americans are terrified of every goddamn thing, and, yes, our collective culture is one of constant fear. Everyone is out to get you or harm you, and it’s a big scary world out there there.

It’s an awful experience to live in fear. The war on Terror and the ensuing panic has consumed us all. In a small way, Bin Laden was the victor in this conflict; we’re all like scared, bellowing cattle now.

Think back to when I was shocked you ride in cars with strange people. Over here, we are all firmly convinced doing such a thing is a death sentence.

@Axecalibur
@Ohl

You find it interesting, but you must be a bigger person than me!

I find it distressingly problematic and even worse than American racism.

It’s like, they just want you to never set foot in their old, storied, superior European lands. You aren’t even worthy of sullying their soil with your flesh.

And…Honestly, I am not surprised.

See, I’m a European history buff. I read that post and immediately harkened back to the Medievalera where people from a village a few miles away were considered subhuman weirdos – even if they were the same color as you!

Warren Ellis’s “Crecy” does a good job of portraying the xenophobic attitudes that were the norm in Europe during Medieval Ages. I highly suggest you read it.

I imagine that the fantasy tropes of elves and dwarves and gnomes and orcs and trolls partially arises from how people back then viewed foreigners as being demibeast-like subhumans.

To put it in a nutshell, Europe has a long and storied and perhaps even celebrated history of racism and it should not be hidden from view.

Nor should we ignore it.

I don’t like to talk about it because I have been lectured severely (and read many a lengthy jeremiad by frustrated Europeans) about how we crude Americans shouldn’t try to force our social justice ideas about racism upon them, and how our worries about racism are strictly an American thing.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

where people from a village a few miles away were considered subhuman weirdos

If you can ever make it to Britain I’ll take you to Yorkshire.

“This is a local shop; for local people!”

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@ Fran

I think you are right about fear in USA but i only know what people have told me or what i read before. But also, with donald trump now truly is something to fear. Sorry if that sounds hopeless.

About lifts, everyone is strange so no problem 😂 but seriously, could also be i am a man and not afraid or not have such big risk to me. Also i get lifts when i am with friends, not alone. And also i am afraid here too sometimes – lots of nazis and nationalist. Some places, if you dont speak good ukranian (like me, i speak russian and english, but not good ukranian because my parents from russia) – you can be in a big danger from ukr nationalist, because they think you are russia supporter. They will ask you a question on ukranian language and if you dont give correct respons…well, i dont know. Run fast!

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
3 years ago

Hitch hiking used to be common in the US, but then there were some high profile serial killers who preyed on hitch hikers.

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Francesca, you did not cause me any distress whatsoever. Absolutely none.

And I do wish you the very best, in all your endeavors.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@lindseyirene

This is not like hich hiking, more like nonoffical taxi ;)) its not for free not normally

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Fran

You find it interesting, but you must be a bigger person than me!

Interesting don’t mean good or acceptable. Just means it made me think

we crude Americans shouldn’t try to force our social justice ideas about racism upon them, and how our worries about racism are strictly an American thing

TBF, white people in this country say racism is strictly a past thing. At least Europeans deflect to another country, our assholes deflect to a bygone region of spacetime

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
3 years ago

@ Valentine

Like a less formal Uber or Lyft, then?

@ Fran

Don’t feel bad about bringing up jobs! There’s no way to predict what might cause a dust-up. Even a comment about kittens can make things go sideways. And I learned about Khan Academy, which is awesome.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Viscaria

One of these days I will get around to them. Oooooone of these days. Okay, probably never.

The subchapters are pretty short, so they can be taken in bursts, and Diamond’s writing flows pretty well too, I find.

@Fran

If we lived in a society that endorsed full Communism, we would probably all be enjoying ourselves in a small office building provided by the Collective, being briefed by David on how to Do A Misandry. 😀

I am making considerable progress on a plan for such a collective, and am nearing being able to put together a formal crowdfunding proposal and start seeking grants. There’s a link in my nym to a forum I set up, but the facebook group’s more active. (The forum is set up because a) not everyone has facebook, b) people can be arbitrarily banned from facebook and Social Justice types get it a lot, and c) some people have valid worries about a certain degree of anonymity.

It’s another reason why I’m distressed and disappointed about myself not being mathwise – I feel like I’m proving racist white people right about their ideals that we are incapable of performing to their standards.

Then they’d have to explain my classmates and I… the explanation posted earlier, IIRC by GrumpyOldMangina, the educational system is terrible on that (and many other) fronts (I could write a book on the reasons why the U.S. education system is so fucked, many have, but the short answer is racism.)

No, it’s not out of line at all, don’t worry. I’m quite flattered by your interest, even. 😉

comment image
[Image: A purple dragon* saying “Aww, shucks, that’s super nice of you”]

*I don’t actually know what dragon; looks pony-adjacent?

Like, you should see how many historical fiction/medieval fantasy books I have about sailing and ships.

I’m writing a historical fantasy novel about a pirate queen right now, as it happens. 🙂

I am too old and underqualified to become an astronaut, so I always figured I’d like to build and fly spacecraft instead.

I firmly believe there’s a strong future in robotic/remote space infrastructure. Actual tinned apes, not so much. Barring artificial gravity of some kind, humans are pretty much fucked in terms of long-term space habitation.

I heard that to code one must know esoteric mathematical processes such as Boolean algebra, which is basically magic and miracles (like magnets) to me as a layperson who can barely solve for y.

To get a degree in Computer Science, you need calculus. I never used it in any of my coding classes, and I’ve met a number of people who work as coders who don’t know any, so I don’t know why. Also, that’s why I don’t have a computer science degree; calculus defeated me entirely.

I think we all need to realize that women and PoC are being used as tentacles of the Neonazis by now.

Also gay and trans people (e.g. Yiannapolous and Jenner), the sheer ahistorical gall of which is equally astonishing.

@Valentine

I think you are right about fear in USA but i only know what people have told me or what i read before. But also, with donald trump now truly is something to fear. Sorry if that sounds hopeless.

Oh, it’s totally true. Reckless fearmongering is a way of life in the States.

Iseult The Idle
Iseult The Idle
3 years ago

Well, I am VERY late to the party, and it seems I’ve missed the traditional dust-up, and the sweeping up of the broken glass and such.

Re: jobs. When my job was changing perforce (my bosses in the small office where I worked were both retiring, and the person taking over the business and I disliked each other), I was at a loss. Luckily I had the luxury of time to plan.

I went to a psychologist who specialized in vocational counseling. I know not everyone has that resource available, but if you do… I found it very helpful. While the testing only revealed one real surprise (I’m not as introverted as I thought!), it did push me into a field I wouldn’t have considered otherwise, and I’ve been very happy with my work. There might even be online resources you could use.

@Francesca, if you are really considering signing on to work on a boat, ship, or ferry AND you have a good eye, consider taking a camera along. I, for one, am totally fascinated by weather phenomena of all types and would happily sign up for your blog. 🙂

JS
JS
3 years ago

What Valentine is describing (paying for rides in cars with strangers) is also known as “gypsy cab” in the US. It’s a cab ride, without having city/state approval. Generally there are no phone numbers or logos on the vehicle. Frequently illegal within city limits, safety varies widely, safer if you’re with a group.

Uber and Lyft left my local large city because it implemented a “Must meet basic safety standards and a fingerprint background check, just like the local cab companies” ordinance. Then Uber/Lyft forced a referendum, wanting people to vote “for” the proposition they wrote. The 2 companies spent more than $8 million on direct mail, prime time TV ads, and “voter registration” phone calls telling people to vote against it in a referendum. Enough that people started getting annoyed at all the mail, TV, and phone calls. Plus they didn’t like the fact that it was basically 2 large corporations trying to force a city to do things their way, or threatening to leave. Despite all the money, and the “discounted/free Uber rides to the polls“, it lost by about 5%.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Alan

That is exactly what I’m talking about and I am glad you supported my words with your own ; to prove I know my stuff, I also am aware of the English North/South feud/rivalry.

Honestly, a sterile, inhuman, purely historical part of me WANTS English people to remain provincial and xenophobia because then we can look at them tell us to go back to (country or town) and say “This is what Feudal Englishpeople were like. Many ages ago, if you were a Knight or a Lady (because medieval history fans think literally everyone was a princess or a knight or a lady or a Lord*) from another town, they would talk to you exactly like that.”

I’d segue off into a thing about how the English view Scots, Irish, and Welsh as also being subhuman weirdos, but you already know about that and you don’t need me to talk about things we already know.

@PeeVee

Thank you very much! Have an internet hug from me (if you consensually agree to it, of course).

@Dalillama

I’m writing a historical fantasy novel about a pirate queen right now, as it happens.

I want to read this.

Also gay and trans people (e.g. Yiannapolous and Jenner), the sheer ahistorical gall of which is equally astonishing.

Have you seen Blair White, the racist white transwoman? She’s on Le Youtube.

Her videos about why she doesn’t have sex with black men and how there are only two genders are some bomb ass shit, and by bomb ass shit I mean fucking awful.

@Iseult

Where’s Tristan? 😀

Also, I will do as you say!

LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
LindsayIrene, Rioting Werebonobo
3 years ago

I’m writing a historical fantasy novel about a pirate queen right now, as it happens.

omg omg omg want

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Lindsay

Same.

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

@Francesca,

Since you asked, a hug is definitely welcomed. 😊

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Fran, LindsayIrene
Y’all are giving me a blush. I’ll have to write faster 🙂

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Fran + Lindsay
I’ve actually read what @Dali’s written so far, and it’s really good stuff. Can’t wait for y’all to be able to read it 🙂

*builds anticipation, markets product stealthily*

Rhuu
Rhuu
3 years ago

Okay, so I signed up for Khan Academy and I am AMAZING at third grade math.

(I figured I better start at the beginning, and see if there are any tricks or something. I like how the presenter subtracts in their head, I’m going to see if I can implement that IRL for faster multiple digit subtractions. I will amaze all my friends! Wow co-workers!)

@Dalillama: I think your pirate queen book would be pretty cool.

@Franscesca Torpedo: I try to remember that every horrible group will always find someone in the people they oppress who likes them… But I’m still puzzled.

I mean, I get that it’s ‘don’t hate me like all THOSE xyz, I’m cool like you!’ style of protection. But whyyyyy?

It’s frustrating to have a discussion with someone and then they go ‘yeah, but Milo likes trump so obviously not alllll LGBT+ people hate him’. OKAY GOOD YOU FOUND ONE. Should I point out that some people seriously consider the earth flat?

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
3 years ago

To get a degree in Computer Science, you need calculus. I never used it in any of my coding classes, and I’ve met a number of people who work as coders who don’t know any, so I don’t know why.

I had take calculus for my accounting degree, and it never made any sense to me either. Statistics was worse.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Axecaliber

Consider me fully onboard (heh)!

@All, re: Khan Academy

Y’all are making me excited to do my Khan Academy thing again!

We should track each other and do a Personal Trainer type thing in which we encourage each other to keep moving forward.

I’m gonna start from the lowest level possible. I already know how to count and add and subtract but fuck it, I’ll refresh my memory – I could use the practice.

Started from the bottom, now we here.

@Rhuu

I KNOW, RIGHT? Fuck.

It’s like…how the hell do you be a racist, transphobic transwoman?

Blair White succeeds at being one, which is hardly what I would call a noteworthy achievement.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Rhuu

I KNOW, RIGHT? Fuck.

It’s like…how the hell do you be a racist, transphobic transwoman?

Blair White succeeds at being one, which is hardly what I would call a noteworthy achievement.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

@Axe
I like you a heck of a lot more than I like ouroboros.

@Alan
The Dover trial was about “Inteligent Design” and trying to get it introduced into a Pennsylvania school district. It failed, and it was actually rejected by a judge appointed by George W. Bush. One of the many books written about that case is 40 Days and 40 Nights: Darwin, Intelligent Design, God, Oxycontin (R), and Other Oddities on Trial in Pennsylvania by Matthew Chapman.

Re: French election
At least one woman voted for Le Pen because it would piss people off. She didn’t think Le Pen would fix anything, she just wanted to make others angry. That seems like one of the worst reasons to vote for someone to me.

@Fransesca
I started at Pre-K math too. It just makes sense to start at the bottom if you want to learn all the math skills.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

One of the issues with math is that if you miss out on a key concept at any early level, it’s probably going to be a problem for you forever after. So it’s a good idea if you’re seriously into getting math skills, to go back like Rhuu has and make sure that you have even the kiddie stuff down pat.

Calculus in coding: Calculus isn’t much use in coding unless you’re doing scientific calculating stuff. I think it’s required for a number of reasons, some of them not very good. Among them are the fact that computing used to be more calculting-based, and another that it tends to screen out people who aren’t good at math, which will cause them problems in computing. The problem with that is that calculus is often poorly taught — in college Calc 101 is often a huge lecture course with minimal actual TEACHING, particularly because (in the US) the lecturer is often a foreign-born grad student whose command of English is weak. It’s tough enough to learn a fairly difficult subject without a language barrier making it worse. I, my wife, and my children all got our start in Calculus in high school Advanced Placement courses with excellent experienced teachers and small classes. (My children’s Calculus teacher was a woman, by the way.)
Calculus requires good teaching, and quite often it doesn’t get it, so the students don’t “get” it. Dali, I’m going to guess that it was poor teaching, not your lack of ability, that defeated you.

I heard that to code one must know esoteric mathematical processes such as Boolean algebra, which is basically magic and miracles (like magnets) to me as a layperson who can barely solve for y.

Boolean algebra (named for a guy named Boole) is absolutely necessary for programming, but it’s not esoteric — it’s actually fairly simple, just a way of turning ideas we deal with every day into an abstract symbolic system that a computer can be programmed to understand. If you take a set containing all the women in the world and a set containing all the PoC in the world and draw circles to represent them on a piece of paper, women of color would be the part where the two circles overlap (which is called the Intersection). If you can understand that, you’re well on your way to understanding Boolean algebra. Say you have a database that has fields for Sex and Ethnicity and you need to select women of color. Depending on the contents of the database and your precise needs, you might want to select people who have indicated their Sex as female and their Ethnicity as African-American, or you might want to select for people who have indicated their Sex as female but not indicated their Ethnicity as white (or Caucasian). You would, of course, get somewhat different results. Thinking in terms of drawn circles, the first graphic would show the intersection of women and African-Americans, the second of women and non-whites.
In coding terms the first would be something like:
If Sex = “F” and Ethnicity = “A” then … else …
and the second would be something like
If Sex – “F” and Ethnicity ≠ “W” then … else …
The “and” indicates that both conditions must be true. If you use “or” instead, in the first case you’d get all (the “union” of) women and African-American people, in the second case you’d get the union of women and non-white people. The ability to take different actions (“branching”) based on whether or not certain conditions (which may be fairly complex) are satisfied is the basis of all programming. It is not not not not esoteric — we all do it every day, just not in the simplified, symbolized manner a computer requires.

“If Sandy comes over this afternoon, I will bake cookies, but if not I will finish up the pie I baked yesterday” is the sort of thing that you could write in (BASIC) programming syntax as “If Sandy-Visit = “Y” then goto Bake-Cookies-Subroutine else goto Eat-Pie-Subroutine.”

I was very good at math. I ended up taking two years of post-calculus abstract algebra courses at Harvard and got good grades even though I was an English major. But the point is that I was always TOLD that I would be good at math and I always EXPECTED to do well. Somestimes I think that the average person is not taught to do well in math, they are taught to fear and dread math. If you go into it with a confident attitude you are likely to find that it is a lot easier than you are told.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Grand Old Man

I actually understood that!

I’m genuinely surprised at myself.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

Alan: converting a 2D film to 3D is about the dumbest thing you can imagine.

Think of taking a printed photo and cutting it into two parts: foreground and background. Then you hold the foreground closer, the background further, and bingo you’ve got parallax!

Thats all there is to it. Of course it’s 2017 so you do that in photoshop and assemble the movie in Maya and render it out into some digital format, but the principle is the same.

Cutting frames like this is a lot of manual effort. You have to do each frame individually, and there’s 24 frames per second, for 5400 seconds in a 90-minute film. So of course it’s all automated using the latest advances in computer vision and artificial intelligence,

Just kidding. Actually what you do is hire a team in India.

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

Somestimes I think that the average person is not taught to do well in math, they are taught to fear and dread math. If you go into it with a confident attitude you are likely to find that it is a lot easier than you are told.

I agree with this.

I think it’s also about confidence in another way: maths is about being sure of your own knowledge and using it boldly in order to make new statements which nobody has previously told you are acceptable. If we bring up our daughters to be afraid of making such statements in a social context, then making them in a mathematical context might also be scary.

Re calculus:
I do a lot of calculus. To me, calculus has become as natural as simpler algebra. I couldn’t imagine life without it. However, if you aren’t interested in hard science, it’s probably not as big a deal for you.

@Fran:
IIRC you said you’re interested in game programming? If you want to do graphical stuff, you might want to spend some time on vector calculus. It’s not that complex a field – I learned it in my first undergraduate year – but there’s some other maths you’re gonna need in order to get there.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@Fran : fantasy tropes about orcs, elves, dwarves, and goblins are a pure product of the 20th century. And while dear Tolkien have a hand in it, Gary Gygax have more to do with it than anyone else. Not that he was an obvious racist scum like Lovecraft could be.

May be a perspective thing, but I find it very hard, from my personal experience, to really say that a country is more or less racist, or that its racism is more bearable or anything. The racism is subtly different in all country and region, which is important to know how to navigate it, but it’s still a shit sandwich no matter what.

I also think your views on Europa might be a small bit more extrem than what it is in reality :p.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Re: Dover Trial

Thanks to all for the info and link. As I’m currently nursing an annoying injury I’m very down on the concept of intelligent design at the moment. Either that or I’m in Beta Test or something.

@ numerobis

That’s disappointingly prosaic. I was hoping they’d developed that technology for seeing behind things in photos; like in Blade Runner.

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

Eh up folks,

Catching up on this thread after the weekend, I like that it started about being a librarian and moved on to classic novels no one really reads, via ships. Moby Dick does the same thing – I always liked the sub-sub librarian at the start, and the pages of quotes about whales. When I was a library assistant, that’s how I used to refer to myself; I was 20 and pretentious, but it amused me.

Congratulations on the job anyway, Nikki!

@AlanRobertshaw

Good old Yorkshire – where the ancient enmity between Swaledale and the ‘foreigners’ in Wensleydale still burns as strong as ever. If you’re from Hawes, don’t let the sun set on you in Muker…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ fran

As Alan Moore once said “I live in Northampton. The North/South divide runs through my living room”.

There are lots of traditional rivalries. Yorkshire v Lancashire; Devon v Cornwall; one street in Sunderland v the next street in Sunderland. They’re usually friendly under the surface and of course areas will be united on a grander scale. It’s like the old thing “Me against my brother. My brother and I against the the tribe. The tribe against the other tribes. The tribes against the outsiders. etc.” In Yorkshire accents and dialects change dramatically over only a few miles, so it’s easy to spot ‘not from round here’. But collectively there’s a strong Yorkshire indentity. So we’ll go on about how ‘we’ came tenth in the Olympics for example.

As for the regions, well don’t forget that ‘Welsh’ is the old English word for ‘foreigner’. Hence the place technically being Cymru to the locals (although they do use ‘Welsh’ themselves now of course). And the Scots will use Sassenach for the English. We have an interesting and chaotic history.

ETA: Ninja’d (quite accurately) by Dan

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

Mmmmm eat-pie-subroutine …… yum. (alas, no pie here 🙁 ) So it’s kind of sort of like writing down flow-charts and Venn diagrams in words? 🙂

re orcs, elves, gnomes and racism/xenophobia + british variant on can’t-trust-those-strangers-from-the-next-village, no wonder that discovering the humanity (or rather, personhood) of people previously dismissed as monsters runs through Pratchett like peppermint swirls through a stick of rock.

(speaking of rock, I like the fact that rock from the south coast (swathes of which are on limestone, e.g. the chalk cliffs) is as hard as granite, whereas Edinburgh rock (Edinburgh being on granite) is as crumbly as chalk)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ opposablethumbs

e.g. the chalk cliffs

I was quite surprised to find out that the white Cliffs of Dover are actually an escarpment. So even in the days of Doggerland, before the Channel, when you could walk to Britain from Europe they would have been a big feature on the landscape.

(And that the Rhine and the Thames were both tributaries of the same river.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ opposablethumbs

Mmmmm eat-pie-subroutine …… yum. (alas, no pie here 🙁 ) So it’s kind of sort of like writing down flow-charts and Venn diagrams in words? 🙂

My pie chart…

http://i.imgur.com/cRy5EED.jpg

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

Maps of Ice Age Europe make me very happy! 🙂

Lots of rivers flowed in different directions pre-glaciation, and often got shifted when there were big glacial floods that smashed through existing landforms and battered them down. I’m led to believe that the Trent used to flow directly east from Nottingham, but one of the big ice-dammed lakes collapsed, and sent a flood that carved out the cliffs between Radcliffe on Trent and east Bridgford, and diverting the river north.

@opposable thumbs

Seaside rock is a pleasure lost in the distance of time, for me, unless I want to speed up the process of tooth loss yet further. Every time I’m in Skegness, I can only look on miserably as younger relatives happily chomp them down. It was Highland toffee bars that caused the damage – I know of no harder, more dangerous substance – they probably built the Pandorica out of it.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ danholme

One of the great things about that League of Gentlemen ‘Stump Hole Cavern’ sketch is that it’s geologically accurate.

My favourite geology/seaside reference…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anning

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@AlanRobertshaw

I’ve had the pleasure of being able to work the occasional quote from that into tours of the caves I’ve worked at.

‘In 1974 you couldn’t move down here for cybermen.’

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

the Rhine and the Thames were both tributaries of the same river <3

How wonderful is that? Not only that this was the case, but also that it can be known?!?! (or is that the Rhone? Hang on, going back for another look …)
And I love the map.

(haven't eaten rock for eons – but at least the Edinburgh variety doesn't require chewing 🙂 )

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

yeah, I always mix up my Rhine and my Rhône :-s

Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
Hambeast, disorderly she-tornado and breaker of windows
3 years ago

Alan – Kitzmiller v. Dover is very entertaining. A blogger I’ve read since 2006 did a very good talk about it that I like to watch once a year or so and I’m not even much of a legal wonk. YT link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjskDUcUQv0

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ hambeast

Ooh thanks for that; I’ll stick it on my viewing list. Found quite an interesting lecture by the judge who presided in the case. That was very good. Bit legal wonk, but explains his rationale really well.

If we’re exchanging videos…

http://www.bartitsu.org

AsAboveSoBelow, Male Gaze Harvester
AsAboveSoBelow, Male Gaze Harvester
3 years ago

@Alan: Thanks for the map. Doggerland is fascinating.

@Dan:

Maps of Ice Age Europe make me very happy! 🙂

Me, too! I like to think about what the land looked like, and how the people lived and moved about, where they might have had their homes.

DanHolme
DanHolme
3 years ago

@AsAboveSoBelow

I agree – when you see horse and reindeer bones, and flint tools, dragged up from the bottom of the North Sea, a whole vanished continent really, it’s quite moving. I would have loved to see something like Lake Lapworth or Lake Pickering for real instead of just inside my head.

@Alan Robertshaw & Hambeast

You almost certainly already know this, but just in case, there is a lot of interesting material about Kitzmiller in the archives at The Panda’s Thumb website, for instance:
https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/12/what-the-dover.html

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Dan & Asabovesobelow

I would have loved to see something like Lake Lapworth or Lake Pickering for real instead of just inside my head.

For bonus cool points Doggerland also has an asteroid impact crater* (which probably ended up as a lake) at Silverpit.

(I know that’s not completely settled but I find the presence of a central peak quite convincing)