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Alt-Right “traditionalists” don’t understand the world they want us to return to, part 973

Cover detail from Sept-Oct 1960 issue of “Going Steady,” a comic book aimed at teen girls

No one should be turning to the neo-Nazi online tabloid The Daily Stormer for dating advice, but on the off chance that you are, I have to warn you that they don’t know what they’re talking about.

I mean, they don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to pretty much everything, but in this case their ignorance involves what actually went on in the supposed 1950s cultural paradise they want to return us to, forcibly if necessary.

In a post with the sarcastic title “Dating Advice: The Key to Good Relationships is Cheating on Your Boyfriends,” regular Daily Stormer contributor “Zeiger” takes aim at a “fat Paki skag” dating expert who has the temerity to argue that women searching for “the One” should date a bunch of guys casually before committing to one of them.

I know, shocking.

Well, it is to Zeiger.

Not so long ago, women didn’t feel like they needed dating advice. After all, they just had to stand around somewhere until a man came to them and took care of everything for them.

All they had to worry about was serving him beer and cooking his food right so he didn’t dump their ungrateful asses.

Zeiger illustrates this point with a magazine illustration from the 1950s depicting happy teenage girls learning to bake a cake, so it’s pretty clear what romanticized past Zeiger is harking back to.

Alas, we have fallen so far from this imaginary paradise!

But in the era of NUMALE faggots and Jew feminism, women are confused. They think it’s somehow their job to understand relationships. This is already a completely insane concept.

But it gets worse.

These days, they’re getting their relationship advice from insane Paki sluts.

The “Paki slut” in question is a “relationship coach” named Sami Wunder who was recently featured in the British tabloid The Express. Despite Zeiger’s headline, Wunder does not actually suggest that women cheat on their boyfriends. Rather, she recommends that women looking for a husband date multiple men, non-exclusively, holding off on serious committment until one of them pops the question.

Whatever you think of this advice, it’s hardly “cheating” to date more than one person when you’re not in an exclusive relationship, presuming everyone is on the up and up on this.

Zeiger is outraged by the very idea.

I guarantee that no real man would “put a ring” on the finger of some hoe who cheated on him with a bunch of other guys. A “man” so pussy-whipped would more appropriately be called a “humanoid slug.” …

What this shows is the urgent need women have for stable, healthy relationships. And that is something that can only be provided by WHITE SHARIA – not fat Paki whore dating advice.

Zeiger’s anger here seems to stem from the same mix of entitlement and insecurity that drives the alt-right obsession with “cucks” and “cucking.” These are men who, on some level, feel entitled to any attractive woman who wanders into their field of vision, and feel betrayed — even “cucked” — when any of these women date or marry or just have sex with some guy other than them.

But we’re not just entitlement we’re dealing with here. More than a few alt-rightist dudes — and manosphere dudes generally — fetishize nubile young virgins, not just because they’re creepy dudes who are way too into women and girls far too young for them, but because virgins have no way to compare their sexual prowess with other men. Many manosphere dudes are quite open about this anxiety, complaining that women who’ve been with more than one guy will endlessly compare them with their earlier partners.

These are the same guys who go around boasting about what “alphas” they are.

But there’s another giant irony in Zeiger’s piece: dating in the 1950s, at least at the start of the decade, looked a lot more like Wunder’s world than Zeigers in some crucial respects.

In the 40s and early 50s, teenagers were encouraged to “play the field,” casually dating an assortment of not-quite-steady partners rather than committing to a single person.

It wasn’t until later in the decade that teens began to shift en masse to the more familiar (to us, that is) strategy of “going steady.” And far from welcoming this new monogamy, many parents were horrified. Magazines at the time were filled with alarming articles on the supposedly grave dangers of going steady.

Here’s one from 1960 warning teens that going steady might be “too dangerous” for them.

Here’s one from 1957 examining the potential “immorality” of going steady.

And here’s a graphic from a pamphlet or magazine article from the era wondering when it was “too early” for teens to go steady.

And parents actually had some legitimate reasons to worry. On the one hand, they worried that teens who “went steady” without dating around first would settle down with the first person of the opposite sex who was nice to them, not realizing they could have done better.

On the other hand, they worried that teens who “went steady” would also end up going further sexually — which could lead, as sex often does, to pregnancy and too-early marriage. Indeed, the age of first marriage dropped precipitously in the 1950s as more teens married, helping to contribute to the spiraling divorce rates of the 1960s and 1970s as these too-hasty marriages fell apart.

It was kind of a screwed-up decade; happily, the sexual revolution of the 1960s convinced a hefty chunk of Americans young and old that 1) sex isn’t the end of the world and 2) it isn’t always such a great idea for teens to settle down forever with the very first person they have sex with.

The weird thing is that the 1950s parents, for all their faults, were more interested in girls and young women having choices than are the alt-rightists of today.

Parents in the 1950s worried that their daughters would end up getting too seriously involved with the wrong guys because they had no good basis for comparison.

Alt-rightists and manosphere dudes today are apparently afraid that no women will settle for them if they realize there are other men out there who aren’t, you know, reactionary racists who think women shouldn’t really be allowed to make their own decisions about anything.

I’m thinking they’re probably right to worry about this. And I’m glad.

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guest
3 years ago

@ Valentine Almost everything I know about working as a sailor comes from this book:

https://us.macmillan.com/lookingforaship/johnmcphee/9780374523190/

Have you seen it, and if so what did you think?

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@epitome

I don’t hate you! And I’m very normal! For example, my shoe size is almost exactly average. If that isn’t reassuringly normal, I don’t know what is

Almost exactly average. Almost!? *cries in a corner* 😛

@Valentine

I also think you are class

кулак шишка
(Hope I got the translation OK 😀)

@EJ
Fair enough, I’ll try to be less snide… Also:

This sort of thing is exclusionary. If you urge violence then you create a space in which the voices of the underprivileged are unwelcome

^This. Privileged people have the luxury of glorious revolution. And their upheavals are notorious for leaving everyone else out in the cold

@Ouro

Normal people don’t get outraged over every little thing posted online

This is terribly disingenuous. Plenty of people make plenty of posts everyday which don’t outrage me. You’ve made plenty of posts that didn’t outrage me. It isn’t “every little thing” I have a problem with, and I’ve told you repeatedly what my objections actually are

As far as normalcy, I know you’ve been on this blog long enough to know that ‘normal’ is a Bad Word. That it’s usually ableist, but can be used against any oppressed group to other and exclude them. You know this, or you should know this. Get it together

Of all the things to get outraged over you get outraged by me talking about killing exploitive, greedy, ruthless rich people for valid reasons

There is no valid reason to hang someone. Because hanging someone is a Bad Thing to do. There may be valid reasons to commit murder (the line between it and self defense is a thin one), but certainly not in this case. Again, going back to the post that started this, the crime for which rich people should be tortured to death is ‘receiving an inheritance’. That was your original “valid reason”

I mean, you added more stuff later, but missed the point entirely. It doesn’t matter who your power fantasy targets. As EJ put it:

The world doesn’t need more violent white men guided only by their own innate self of what’s right

It’s rather unlikely that the solution to toxic whiteness and masculinity is more of the same but a ‘lefty’ this time. So, please, have a seat. Listen and learn. And obey the damn comments policy! If I hafta follow the rules, so do you…

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@alan

Dude don’t tell aruni about this…he’ll get his skull and pizza box and keyboard short cuts out again.

Sex and drugs and publshinh books! I should become author now….write a book about the sea on english and then move to England and join this party!

@Axe

Не парься, я понимаю тебя 😉

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ valentine

Sex and drugs and publshinh books!

I like how that rhymes; sounds like an album title.

Life of Pi was a Booker winner that’s, sort of, about sailing. I was a bit concerned because it referenced Richard Parker and that’s something I’ve been wanting to write about for decades. But luckily winning was the kiss of death for the book so nobody read it. (A winner once suggested they should use the prize money to put copies of the books in libraries so they’d actually be read as well as bought, which he believed was rarely the case).

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@ alan

It does rhymes? I don’t know when i read it doesn’t to me…. 🙈

I didnt read life of pi. My girlfriend did and made me watch movie, it was okay. Begining i was not happy with, i dont like to watch ships sinking. I am superstitios a little bit. She seems to like makinh me watch stuff like that….the perfect storm, titanic, the finest hours, captain phillips….

Also i am going to.sound like a big idot now but who is Richard Parker – i thought it was just strange named tiger…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ valentine

Richard Parker

He was an unfortunate cabin boy. He was one of four men who ended up adrift in a lifeboat. Eventually the survivors drew lots, Parker lost, so they ate him. The subsequent legal case is quite interesting and is still a key authority today. It even crops up in counter terrorism in relation to shooting down aircraft. See here for more details.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens

However what I find especially fascinating about the case is that Edgar Allan Poe wrote a story called The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym. In that story four men end up adrift in a lifeboat. They draw lots, the cabin boy loses so they eat him. In the story the cabin boy is called Richard Parker.

What’s spooky though is the story was written decades before the real event.

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@ alan

Holy fuck. I am on the bridge now (yeah with phone so sue me, we in pacific, quiet ocean, no traffic). It is 0332 and i got all my hairs standing up now.

In the event that moby dick is based upon, one lifeboat also did straws for eating one person. I saw that film too, this time.i.made my girlfriend watch this film – she say its boring 😂

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

Also, Richard Parker is the name of Spiderman’s dad

>_>

*sees self out*

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@guest

Sorry i missed your comment. No i didn’t read that book. Sounds like my job though, ship going somewhere and all people telling long boring stores which are not quite true 😉 i didn’t know yhe US have a problem with finding ships. For me i can go on any flag.

@axe

I fucking love spiderman! Didnt know that his dad was called Richard Parker. I thought it would be something with P P. Like Paul.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ valentine

There are quite a few Richard Parkers who’ve been shipwrecked and/or eaten. Not sure what’s going on there; or whether Spiderman’s dad is amongst them.

If you really want to freak yourself out read ‘Arthur Gordon Pym’. I got the audiobook for some friends who went on a round the world yacht race (they were the support vessel). They sought to avoid the cannibalism though by attaching emergency supplies to the keel. I’m not sure if that demonstrates amazing foresight or disappointing lack of confidence in their own seamanship.

Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

@Axe
I can’t exactly call myself normal by any stretch of the imagination but I sure as hell don’t hate you, not by a long shot.
@EJ
Fair enough.
@Ouroboros13
Use of “normal people hate you.” On a site that knows that word is often coded to say “hey you are freaks and should be shunned.” November was not a year ago, it was six months ago. If it was a year ago we’d be having this conversation on November 2017. You already know of the comments policy, at the very least adhere to it.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

Alan: wiki says there were no lots, but Parker was comatose. So he’d likely have died anywaay.

The trial seems like a shitshow.

scarlettpipstrelle
scarlettpipstrelle
3 years ago

My grandmother (b. 1905) was amazed by my generation (I was born in 1953) because she thought it was unhealthy to pair off exclusively so quickly. In her youth, the girls spent tons of time with boys, not always under direct adult supervision, and nobody thought anything of it. The difference was, they usually dated in groups. A bunch of them would go to a movie or ice skating, or a walk in the park or something. The girls back then where she was (Philadelphia working class) weren’t locked up in harems. The original idea of dating was to learn about your own personality and that of others, who you would get along with better, who was available, what your social options were, and to develop your social skills and your ability to judge character, all without any expectation whatsoever that the girl would be “ruined” or pressured to “put out” or anything.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ numberobis

The trial seems like a shitshow.

Whilst I have been somewhat lazy about getting round to writing I have gathered a lot of source material; including all the trial(s) transcripts. And yup, shitshow was pretty much the contemporary view too. As to the drawing of lots, that was one of the contentious issues at the first trial. It seems agreed there was an initial drawing. There’s debate about whether there was a later one and, if so, whether it was rigged.

There’s all sorts of weird and fascinating things about the case though. Part of the problem in writing about it is that some things sound too much like fictional tropes and clichés. But it’s all true. I’m just surprised the story isn’t better known or that nobody else has tried to write it (outside of legal books).

Valentine
Valentine
3 years ago

@alan

Ships sink every week. Your friends right to prepare like that. It is correct. When i was preparing for my exams i read a lot of accident reports and also VDR transcript of El Faro. She was a big American ship that sank in hurricane Joiquim. 33 people. 2nd mate and stewardess there both female as well. I think you should read the transcript, and all sailors too should read it.

@scarletteepipestrelle
I realy like your name.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ valentine

I’ll check that out; cheers. I do like stuff like that. I read the Admiralty law reports and they’re full of fascinating stuff. It’s amazing, to a land lubber like me, just how busy some shipping lanes are (and conversely, how big and empty the sea can be). I also got fascinated by the two Titanic enquiries. All the paperwork is digitised and public now, so that’s a nice diversion, especially from a legal perspective. I’ve done a bit of ship related stuff. It’s pretty cool compared to regular work. We once had a ship ‘arrested’. That literally involved sending bailiffs to board the ship and nail the warrant to the mast (or nearest equivalent bit, it was a modern cruise liner).

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet, I’d like to point out that the concept of ‘paying court’ to a woman is a fairly old concept. (Or maybe I’ve just read too many fantasy novels.)

Viscaria the Cheese Hog
Viscaria the Cheese Hog
3 years ago

But luckily winning was the kiss of death for the book so nobody read it.

Really? Everyone and their dog read it around here. I was a bit weird in that I didn’t. (12-year-old hipster snobbishness: If everybody likes it so much, it can’t possibly be any good.) Maybe we ate it up because it was Canadian and was partially set in Canada. We love that round here.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ viscaria

Everyone and their dog read it around here

Over here it seemed to be one of those books that everybody had, but no one actually read. But maybe that’s just my circle, we are pretty useless like that.

Viscaria the Cheese Hog
Viscaria the Cheese Hog
3 years ago

Ah. Like Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Yup, or Brief History of Time.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

I’ve read a Brief History of Time. 😛

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Alan

I’m just surprised the story isn’t better known or that nobody else has tried to write it (outside of legal books).

They probably don’t want to be accused of ripping off Poe

@Viscaria

Ah. Like Guns, Germs, and Steel.

I’ve read that one a few times. Also collapse

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Yes, POM, but since you are a self-identified mad person it is entirely in character for you to read the book that everybody loves but nobody reads.

And, by the way, “normal” is the worst insult that has ever been directed at me — fortunately, I am very rarely so described.

And, Axe, I think almost everyone here actually loves you. Ouroboros needs to sit in the corner and think about what zie said. We need to be better than the people who think violence solves things.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Worst case avoided in France. To me, that’s a relief.

Let’s just hope for a left wing majority at the assembly now.

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

Congratulations on the election, Ohlmann, John, Occasional Reader and all our other Mammouthiers Français.

2016 was the year that the Fascists won. 2017 seems to be going far less well for them.

dreemr
dreemr
3 years ago

Pleased to hear that France has at least avoided the worst. Hopeful for our French friends.

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

(I read both Guns, Germs & Steel and Life of Pi. I never finished Brief History of Time. I did read Long Walk to Freedom and A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius though.)

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

@Ouroboros13

Yes. Please just chill. Indulging your anger won’t lead to progressive social change.

If you chill, people will be less likely to think you’re a troll trying to provoke regular posters here into saying something outrageous.

Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

@Ohlmann
Congrats on avoiding a fascist state. Not to mention Macron having over 60% of the votes to boot.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

I could wish for Le Pen to have been not just soundly defeated but utterly routed (like 95 to 5 or something), but yes, it’s great and I can only hopehopehope the FN fails to rally from this defeat and goes into terminal decline now.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM
Alright, France, you win this round 🙂

Next is UK and Germany later this year? Any other hi profile ‘populist’ uprisings need squashing? Also, it’s weird that we should all be rooting for a buncha women to lose big elections. May and le Pen and Weidel are all terrible and should definitely lose. Merkel too maybe. But can we all at least agree that it’s a little weird?

PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

CONGRATULATIONS, FRANCE!!!!!

🇫🇷 😙

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@Ooglyboggles : I am still worried by two things.
The first one is that 35% for a party that far right is distressing. While I am happy Le Pen did less than the 40% I though she would, it’s still 1/3 of the population who don’t mind voting for someone whose friends wear nazis uniforms. Ten year ago, it was 18% “only”.

The second one is that Macron is pretty much the candidate of the statu quo, and seem woefully inadequate to answer to the fears of the people who vote FN*. Meaning angers will continue to build up on populars classes, work rights will continue to get eroded, and overall it’s likely that the FN will continue to rise.

That being said, there is some silver lining. Le Pen had lost significant supports by showing her hand too soon, and it’s not impossible that defeat will weaken her for a long time. The high level of blank votes might make Macron a bit more prudent. And, of course, there is another battle soon to limit the number of FN member in the parliament, a battle that is traditionally much harder for the FN than presidentials.

* note : a good portion of them, at least if my family is representative, see racism and bigotry as a solution to their woes, not as an end by itself. Meaning an actual left-wing leader could fix their problems another way and they would abandon the FN ship.

Viscaria the Cheese Hog
Viscaria the Cheese Hog
3 years ago

Phew. Congratulations, French Mammotheers. I’m very glad to hear it.

@Dalillama

Ah. Like Guns, Germs, and Steel.

I’ve read that one a few times. Also collapse

One of these days I will get around to them. Oooooone of these days. Okay, probably never.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

One of these days I will get around to them.

I’ve been trying to read Moby Dick for decades and never made it past page 5.

There’s good evidence though that I’m the only person who’s ever read the the Armed Forces Act in its entirety including the appendices.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Also, Le Pen tried to use fake news to discredit her opponent. This time, it didn’t work. If we believe the surveys, it actually was harmful.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

O/T but perhaps Paradoxy or one of our other graphics experts can assist. Noticed a lot in documentaries nowadays they apply a sort of ‘3D’ effect to old photos. So as they pan across them the figures in the foreground stand out from the background and you can see stuff appear behind them.

How do they do that?

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

@opposablethumbs:

I can only hopehopehope the FN fails to rally from this defeat and goes into terminal decline now.

I read something earlier today that suggested that Le Pen intends to dissolve her party herself. Her plan is to apparently create a joint Right-wing party that included more moderate people. I’m not sure that she’ll have much success as long as she’s at the helm.

@M’lud Marchioness:

Also, it’s weird that we should all be rooting for a buncha women to lose big elections.

To quote the great Ms Sarkeesian (emphasis mine): “Women need heroes and villains who look like us.”

@Alan:

There’s good evidence though that I’m the only person who’s ever read the the Armed Forces Act in its entirety including the appendices.

It’s funny what being stuck at a railway station late at night does for your reading habits. :p

@Ohlmann:

Also, Le Pen tried to use fake news to discredit her opponent. This time, it didn’t work. If we believe the surveys, it actually was harmful.

That’s a huge relief, and speaks really well of the French electorate. I wonder what the difference was? Why did Anglosphere voters fall for it and not French ones?

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Everyone

I’m glad the tiny kerfuffle over jobs has come to a close. I felt dismayed and conflicted that Dreemr and PeeVee were put off by the reactions here. I really don’t want anyone to feel bad and I apologize to the both of you for causing any upset.

At first I blamed myself for even bringing up the subject, but then I realized that if we had Universal Basic Income we wouldn’t need to have this conversation, and realized that once again the ugly seeds of Capitalism brought discord and chaos to our happy little corner of the Internet.

If we lived in a society that endorsed full Communism, we would probably all be enjoying ourselves in a small office building provided by the Collective, being briefed by David on how to Do A Misandry. 😀

In my mind’s eye, I imagine us all sitting around a business meeting table filled with Legos, nerf guns, cats, and video game equipment while David does his presentations on the Manureosphere.

@Dalilama

No, it’s not out of line at all, don’t worry. I’m quite flattered by your interest, even. 😉

@CleverForAGirl

You’re the heroine we so desperately need in these dark times. Seriously, I am 100% impressed that you are a black girl that is good at math. You have singlehandedly wrecked the White Supremacist propaganda about Wimmenz and DUH BLACKS being bad at math.

It’s another reason why I’m distressed and disappointed about myself not being mathwise – I feel like I’m proving racist white people right about their ideals that we are incapable of performing to their standards.

@Valentine

I actually really, really like sailing.

Like, you should see how many historical fiction/medieval fantasy books I have about sailing and ships.

I also don’t get sick on board ships and have been aboard many a boat in my time, further exploding a myth we have over here in the USA about how black people don’t like boats.

However, the U.S. media makes it seem like being on a cargo ship means you have to avoid armadas of pirates and that your shipmates will try to kill you every chance you get. They make it sound like it’s 1781 in the Caribbean all over again.

So I’m nervous about losing my life there. I’m also worried about if it would be safe for a transwoman like myself to be wandering about on a ship.

But at the same time, the future possibility of “The effervescent, elegant and Very Intrepid Freighter Captain Franscesca Torpedo” appeals to me more than I could possibly put into words.

If I managed to do that AND somehow buy a castle like other eccentrics have done, I’d pretty much be living the dream my 12-year-old self always had and complete my transformation into a character from the ‘Redwall’ series of fantasy books (I have almost all of them).

I really like ships. When I was small I drew and wrote about ships and sailing exclusively.

The only thing I like more than ships and sailing is space. I was obsessed with space for a while as well, which is why I mentioned wanting to become an aerospace engineer.

I am too old and underqualified to become an astronaut, so I always figured I’d like to build and fly spacecraft instead.

@Oogly

Ah, Khan Academy.

I made the mistake of starting at the high school level with it, because that was where my education ended.

Big mistake. It ended in tears and I stopped using it. Recently I deleted my account and resolved to start at the lowest level, even though I know how to count and add and subtract. That’s the highest level of my proficiency.

I’ve also started using Code Academy. As per the Mammotheers who suggested coding as a job, I may just do that.

I heard that to code one must know esoteric mathematical processes such as Boolean algebra, which is basically magic and miracles (like magnets) to me as a layperson who can barely solve for y.

However, I figured that, if by some chance my second run with Khan Academy is successful, I might be able to overtake that hurdle.

I’m also going to get a full psychological evaluation so that I can better understand what’s wrong with my brain.

In all actuality…I probably am too damaged to work and should be receiving disability, but the harsh economic policy of the USA does not allow for such a thing.

@Axecalibur, RE: Defeating Nazi Women

I think we all need to realize that women and PoC are being used as tentacles of the Neonazis by now.

Citation: Ben Fucking Carson(BEN: “PYRAMIDS BE GRAIN STORAGE AN SHIET”), Michelle “I fucking hate black people’ Malkin, various other Quislings of Color and Quisling Women, DARTH OMAROSA.

The game has changed significantly. Just because someone is PoC or a woman doesn’t mean they are automatically on our side and we gotta come to grips with this.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

So, the election was a victory for lesser evil? Sounds very American.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ EJ

It’s funny what being stuck at a railway station late at night does for your reading habits. :p

It is so weird you say that! It was daytime, but it was a station in the middle of nowhere, with no train for several hours.

Otrame
Otrame
3 years ago

@Ourobouros13

You think they deserve to die. Well, I don’t. But then I don’t think we should kill people for killing people. Seems… illogical.

I believe that Hamlet had it exactly right:

LORD POLONIUS
My lord, I will use them according to their desert.

HAMLET
God’s bodykins, man, much better: use every man
after his desert, and who should ‘scape whipping?
Use them after your own honour and dignity: the less
they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.

(my emphasis)

We should not let the emotional need for revenge turn us into monsters.

@Alan Robertshaw

I rather enjoyed reading the trial transcript for the Dover Trial. Well, I say read. I had the computer read it to me while I was doing some major housework/spring cleaning. The rather flat nature of a trial transcript goes well with computer reading.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@EJ : honestly, and despite me usually being quick to point out french as superior, I think the electorate is not the main difference.

The difference were, in my opinion :
* somebody did it before. Since the Trump election, people have been wisening about random revelations on the internet. The trust wikileak built have thorougly decayed since this time. Also, reactions to it is becoming faster. Thoses fake news are a scam, and scams alway decay in efficient with time.
* it was too ham-fisted and too hasty. Combined to the above point, it made thoses attempts ridiculed way more quickly.
* lastly, and while on some aspects, french might be more racists than americans, they tend to want a certain level of dignity. The FN have appeared unclassy and crass, which provoked rejection. That’s why Fillon sinked so fast for his embezzlement when Chirac and Juppé did not : Fillon embezzled for his profit, while Chirac funded his party.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
3 years ago

@Ohlmann

French are more racist than Americans

Glad you said this.

People…like to act like White Europeans are progressive and not racist, and by and large this is not really true per se.

I always envy people (usually white) who blabber about how they backpacked across Europe and it was soooo fun.

I want to see the ruins of Ancient Rome up close and explore the different places that many medieval fantasy fiction writers have incorporated into their work, but I wouldn’t give a thin penny for my chances with dealing with the highly specific nature of European racism against black people.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Arctic

So, the election was a victory for lesser evil? Sounds very American

How I fuckin wish it were “very Murican”. 2000 (sorta), 2004, and 2016 (also sorta) suggest oterwise…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ otrame

Dover Trial

Ooh, which one’s that?

guest
guest
3 years ago

‘Why did Anglosphere voters fall for it and not French ones?’

A friend of mine just tweeted ‘Murdoch Murdoch Murdoch.’ It is pretty amazing how much work he’s put into making people in the countries he has media properties in believe things.

A few months ago I got off the train in Bristol, and was surprised to see people handing out free papers (I don’t recall ever seeing this outside London)–I didn’t pick one up, but glanced at the front page–it was something vaguely negative and alarmist about the House of Lords, literally in red letters. This was when the Lords were in a position to stop Brexit.

The insidious thing to me is that you don’t even have to read, or believe, what’s written in the papers–even casually glancing at a headline is enough to implant a message.

eli
eli
3 years ago

@Alan

The ‘Intelligent Design’ one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

I’m trusting there’s a link to the decision buried in there somewhere 🙂

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Sorry, I meant to clarify, I meant the sentiment where victory for lesser evil would be considered the best case outcome and worth celebrating.