The idea that women regularly use their sexual wiles to gain control over men has long been central to the Men’s Rights Movement.
In the seminal MRA tome The Myth of Male Power, Warren Farrell famously declared that secretaries have “miniskirt power, cleavage power and flirtation power” over their male bosses; the latest edition of his book features a shapely female posterior on the cover, sans clothing, to illustrate what he sees as the immense power women can exert over men with, well, their butts.
In the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, one Reddit MGTOW takes Farrell’s argument one sickening step further, seeming to suggest that women use this sexy power of theirs to “intice” [sic] men to, well, rape them.
As High-Fruit-Trinity sees it, women have
used men’s nature against them.
They called men pigs & date-rapists. But they were the CAUSE
Of male piggishness and … rape?
They have entire industries just for women to be more beautiful, inticing and sexy. They’re taught everything about manipulating men. Men aren’t taught anything.
Women got away with this because they are the perceived victims, and you shouldn’t blame the victim. So who do you blame?
I dunno, dude, when a man acts like a pig to women, I blame him. When a man rapes a woman, I blame him. Who do you blame, Mr. High-Fruit-Trinity? Do you actually see rape survivors as the real “CAUSE” of rape, and the rapists themselves as the victims?
Apparently so. In a followup comment in the thread, High-Fruit-Trinity approvingly quotes a comment from a Washington Post reader about a famous political sex scandal.
“let’s acknowledge that women also play a role in soliciting sexual attention. Think about John Edwards and Rielle Hunter and how all the blame is focused on Edwards. She could easily cry “sexual harrassment!” as a causative factor; why isn’t a charge of “sexual enticement” just as accurately applied to the situation? “
It’s a bizarre question to ask about Edwards and Hunter, given that no one was accusing Edwards of sexually harassing her; the two had a consensual affair. But MRAs and MGTOWs seem to have some trouble understanding the difference between sexual harassment and mutual sexual attraction, as well as between consensual sex and rape.
In any case, the logic here is pretty clear: in High-Fruit-Trinity’s mind, whenever a man harasses or rapes or does anything sexual to a woman that she doesn’t consent to, it’s her fault, not his, because she must have “enticed” him into doing it.
Basically, this is blame-the-victim on steroids. And yet another reason so many people wish that the so-called Men Going Their Own Way would indeed go wherever it is they are allegedly going, the further away from the rest of us the better.
A casting that would’ve made so much more sense for Nina Simone is Uzo Aduba from Orange is the New Black. She looks much more like Simone and is a really good actor. But she’s not as conventionally attractive as Saldana so Hollywood thinks people won’t watch her in a lead role, I guess.
@dreemr, wwth
Re Zoe Saldana
I think its probably not correct for me, a white man to make comments on her attitude to blackness. I only mention before just to bring it up. Francesca make a good point, she can say whatever she likes. Its her life at the end. Also i have only see one movie wich was Gardians of the Galaxy. I only new about the nina simone movie because of what people i follow on twitter mentioned it. Its a complex issue of identity and better i am more wanting to listen to voices of black criticism on this.
But in happy news, last film i recently watched is a good russian film i recommend. Called Пятница (means friday) set in one club in Moscow on friday night. Lots of stories & Characters but there is one character called Валентин, like me, who is there playing partner for his friend for picking up women. His friend is basically PUA asshole type and after talking with cool feminist working giving Tequila, Валентин gets rid of his asshole PUA friend. Nice message. Also his friend actually listens Валентин, decides to stop doing game and goes home and also does something awesome. But i wont spoil. Nice to see a movie that actually covers these things ;)))
I’m always struck by the extent that these terrible people will go to keep whatever conscience they have at bay. You can always follow the tells down rabbit hole that they dig for themselves:
1. In response to the social consequences of a given transgression, narrow the definition that conveniently excludes you. Tells include the words “real” and “legitimate.”
2. If number 1 cannot be plausibly avoided, throw shade on the victim. Discuss whereabouts, behaviours, appearance ad nauseum in attempt to discredit accuser.
3. If number 2 is not working, up the ante by blaming victim wholesale for your actions (as seen above), abdicating all responsibility on the part of offenders with the classic “you made me do it” excuse used by abusers everywhere.
4. If public at large not buying number 3, regurgitate same handful of cases where accusations could not be proven conclusively (or even better, were demonstrated to be false). Look for “Duke Lacrosse”, “Mattress Girl” and “UVA” (and only these three) to appear at this point.
5. Once the extenuating circumstances and inconsistencies of the above three cases are pointed out, open the “both sides are equally bad” escape hatch and throw a “what about the white cis men” grenade.
6. Pray that your lies have gotten around the world before the truth has donned its shoes.
I can understand that acknowledging you’re a terrible person tends to be the kind of thing that breaks one’s psyche, but it’s gotta be easier to rebuild yourself as a decent human being than deploying this exhausting formula over and over again.
These two are true when it comes to how I was raped. I wasn’t at all provocatively dressed, and the guy was a so-called friend. Who somehow thought nothing of climbing up over me and sticking his dick in my mouth when I did not explicitly give him permission to put it there. And yes, it happened in my home. My parents’ house, rather.
On topic, I could say this to any Migtow, but seriously, fuck this guy.
And back on topic for me:
…while completely neglecting the actual, incontrovertible fact that male bosses have hiring power and paycheque power over these oh-so-allegedly-powerful sexy secretaries.
And really, if they’re bothered by miniskirts, cleavage and flirtation, they could solve that problem handily by hiring a woman who wears pants, shows no cleavage, and doesn’t flirt. Or, if the problem is having a woman, any woman, in close proximity — by hiring a man to do the mundane office gophering. Male secretaries WERE a thing, at one point. It was actually considered a Very Big Deal when women were finally allowed to work a typewriter.
@PI
Yup. I also heard, “Rape is the only crime where the victim has to prove their innocence.”
Kitten Break:
http://kitten.academy/live-stream/
Bina said (back on page 2) Exhibit A:
There were also the “How to Pick Up Girls” books from way back in the 60s/70s that were advertised in the back pages of magazines that you could send away for. These appeared along side the “Draw this picture and become an artist” ads with the cute animals you were supposed to copy to asses your artistic potential.
see, i really WAS sexually assaulted in the workplace. it’s pretty much terrifying to know that there are huge message boards full of MG(nowhere?)TOWs who think that a 15 year old girl in a giant polyester polo shirt, standing behind a cash register counting things, is somehow so “enticing” that a man can’t be held responsible for what happens.
if men are really that weak maybe it’s better if we don’t let them be in charge of things? y’know. for their own good.
too slow to edit myself:
not like there’s anything a person COULD do to “entice” an action that is by its very nature unwanted?? i didn’t feel like i was clear there. i’m saying i think i was a particularly UNenticing victim, but no victim has ever enticed their rapist. ever.
@cat
I’m sorry that sort of terrible thing happened to you. Truly.
@Hambeast
I never really got how many people actually believe in that dreck. Humans are complex with a wide array of emotions and personalities, you can’t just sum up the entire gender in just one flimsy book.
@BritterSweet
We lived in a fucked world.
@Tovius
Fuck em in the ass with a rusty fork
Funny, don’t these guys usually complain about classes teaching consent?
Ikeke:
Francesca Torpedo:
PeeVee:
I honestly believe that if the WHTM Collective were to be the group getting all riled up over false rape accusations it would make a far more cogent, cohesive argument against it than the typical MGTOW/MRA/PUA ever could.
Of all the bluster that comes with their inane contentions, I have yet to come across one single MGTOW/MRA/PUA rant against false or unsubstantiated accusations that even makes a passing reference to real victims like those needlessly hurt, maimed or worse in Beaumont, Rosewood or Tulsa; or to people like Rubin Stacy, Jesse Washington, Thomas Shipp, Abram Smith, Ed Johnson, John Evans, the Groveland Four, Yusef Hawkins – yeah, it’s a fairly long list.
It’s as though the “stark reality” of false rape accusations is only apparent to, and an issue for, white heterosexual men but no one else.
Of course, that would mean acknowledging racism as a real thing so…
@Valentine
A Russian film with a pro-feminist message? Kinda unexpected. Was the feminist person explicitly described as a feminist, or did their views just strongly align with feminism? I’m asking because the word itself is not a popular one in Russia.
Brain bleach
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/853202759717408768/photo/1
@ayy lamao
They ask her if she is feminist and the friend of Валентин makes fun of her for it but she doesnt take any of his shit 😉 yeah true maybe not a popular word with idiots but strong women are always admired.
Though like many russian film also there were a lot of characters. General message was be true to yourself and that fake people, manipulators never should won.
Hey, Valentine, is this the film?
Your description sounds intriguing.
Back in the 1970s, a few films from the USSR got a relatively wide distribution in the USA. It was pretty exciting to me. I saw three of them. I don’t know if there were any more.
Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears
A film whose name I can’t recall but was about the silent film industry in Russia(!)
Bluebird of Happiness (this one was a collaboration between the USSR and the USA)
Part 2 of my posting about films from Russia/USSR:
I loved all those films I named, including the one about the silent film industry in Russia (I believe that this film was set before the 1917 revolution). Valentine, if you know the title of that film, please let me know. Google tells me nothing.
Although I loved Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears (which was released in 1980, not the 1970s), the way that the male love interest treated the female love interest told me a lot about the way women were treated in the USSR. I was unimpressed by the gender relations. But I was thrilled to actually get a look at everyday life in the USSR, particularly for women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Bird_(1976_film)
I can’t seem to copy and paste a poster of The Blue Bird (not Bluebird of Happiness — my error). But the Wikipedia article is interesting.
I think I’m going to swipe that snow leopard for my brain bleach folder.
More brain bleach:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8003/7173002254_e7f62f6737.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8332/8144818148_2d778aa1bd.jpg
Part 4
Sorry about all those italics. Curse you, Italics Monster!
Anyway, I saw all those films in the theater, which as far as I’m concerned provides a truly magical setting.
Also, nobody else was interested in seeing these films. I saw all of them alone. They were my personal USSR Film Festival.
@Kat
This one?
I remember a version of that movie. I think it might have been the Shirley Temple one.
The animal pix in this thread are particularly wonderful. Thanks, everyone, for the mood booster!