The idea that women regularly use their sexual wiles to gain control over men has long been central to the Men’s Rights Movement.
In the seminal MRA tome The Myth of Male Power, Warren Farrell famously declared that secretaries have “miniskirt power, cleavage power and flirtation power” over their male bosses; the latest edition of his book features a shapely female posterior on the cover, sans clothing, to illustrate what he sees as the immense power women can exert over men with, well, their butts.
In the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, one Reddit MGTOW takes Farrell’s argument one sickening step further, seeming to suggest that women use this sexy power of theirs to “intice” [sic] men to, well, rape them.
As High-Fruit-Trinity sees it, women have
used men’s nature against them.
They called men pigs & date-rapists. But they were the CAUSE
Of male piggishness and … rape?
They have entire industries just for women to be more beautiful, inticing and sexy. They’re taught everything about manipulating men. Men aren’t taught anything.
Women got away with this because they are the perceived victims, and you shouldn’t blame the victim. So who do you blame?
I dunno, dude, when a man acts like a pig to women, I blame him. When a man rapes a woman, I blame him. Who do you blame, Mr. High-Fruit-Trinity? Do you actually see rape survivors as the real “CAUSE” of rape, and the rapists themselves as the victims?
Apparently so. In a followup comment in the thread, High-Fruit-Trinity approvingly quotes a comment from a Washington Post reader about a famous political sex scandal.
“let’s acknowledge that women also play a role in soliciting sexual attention. Think about John Edwards and Rielle Hunter and how all the blame is focused on Edwards. She could easily cry “sexual harrassment!” as a causative factor; why isn’t a charge of “sexual enticement” just as accurately applied to the situation? “
It’s a bizarre question to ask about Edwards and Hunter, given that no one was accusing Edwards of sexually harassing her; the two had a consensual affair. But MRAs and MGTOWs seem to have some trouble understanding the difference between sexual harassment and mutual sexual attraction, as well as between consensual sex and rape.
In any case, the logic here is pretty clear: in High-Fruit-Trinity’s mind, whenever a man harasses or rapes or does anything sexual to a woman that she doesn’t consent to, it’s her fault, not his, because she must have “enticed” him into doing it.
Basically, this is blame-the-victim on steroids. And yet another reason so many people wish that the so-called Men Going Their Own Way would indeed go wherever it is they are allegedly going, the further away from the rest of us the better.
@lkeke
But… You’re a regular tho…
If women are such master manipulators and men are at the mercy of their every whim, couldn’t the women just manipulate the men into not raping them?
@ikeike
Noo! Don’t leave me!
@Valentine
It may be because of my personal life experiences or my own sensitivity towards my own race, but, to me, I am extremely conscious of nose and mouth sizes.
I notice white people who are confused about why black celebs get their noses fixed, and I have to say I’d be extremely tempted to have my nose filed down if I became absurdly rich.
From my POV, this is a small nose:
This is normal:
Now look at Zoe.
Her nose and mouth are visibly wider than a white or Asian woman.
I’d say we both have the same nose shape and mouth size, even. I consider my nose to be pretty fuckin’ yuuuuge, though not Nina Simone sized. We’re even the same color.
I, too, have non black genes in my family lines, as I have mentioned in other thread.
And that brings me to my personal gripe with Zoe: she bitterly pretends there isn’t a drop of black blood in her and insists on labeling herself by her nationality.
Me, I accepted just calling myself black.
When white people (or other non black people) get angry at me, they call me a fucking n-word, not a fucking beautiful and successful mixed-race person.
People describe me as black. I don’t really care to bring up my racial blend.
I also object very strongly to people (mostly white – I have not met a black person yet who has ever insisted that I do this) who have fainting spells over my refusal to acknowledge my multiracial characteristics. They usually only do so after I make the mistake of mentioning that I am multiracial. This is something I must inform them about; they would never guess on their own.
I’ll call myself multiracial when people stop calling me an n-word. Otherwise, it’s no deal.
So, in closing, I think Zoe Saldana has some problems with black people and her black attributes, in my opinion, and this is only highlighted by her general idiocy surrounding her Nina Simone role.
I’m just joking: I often feel like one of those little moles that pop out, say something, and then disappear for several days at a time.?
@Ikeke
I was actually quite concerned that something had happened to you, but I didn’t want to seem like I was stalking you so I figured I’d be patient and see what you would do.
It’s nice to have another black lady around to keep things moving.
Of course, I’m not trying to prevent you from doing stuff. You do you, as they say.
@francesca
For what its worth Zoes nose is smaller than mine. I have a roman nose or a jewish nose depends who is telling. But i understand you mean its wideness over ‘outness’ however you say. Like roman nose like mine is more ‘out’. Nina simones nose is more wide. But again i am sorry, where i live is mostly white or at least there are not that many black people, so i am looking at it from white perspective. Still it took me until i was quite old to accept my nose as okay.
The two other examples you gave i would both say are very small. Second one she has small everything on her face!
But maybe we can agree that big noses are beautiful and it is only other people and bullying & racisim that makes you want yours smaller.
And your second point i agree totally. No one cares if your mixed race, if you look black you will receive racisim end of story. She puerto Rican? Okay but no racist will care. Shes adding to the problem, not helping it, by denying.
You know I often want to try and be calm and rational when it comes to situations like these…but fuck it.
I hope the poster and all those other MGTOW scumfuck bastards rot in the darkest and most foul pit deep within the bowels of Hell with demons shoving rusty forks up their asses for all eternity.
Yeah that might be a bit much.
So according to MGTOW, men are easily manipulated and have no control over their sexual urges. But feminists are the ones who hate men. Got it.
@Valentine
Exactly. Who says cishet white males can’t learn? 😀
That’s the crux of my argument against her. Now, I don’t like to whine about her too much. Black women are frequently disrespected and abused; if Zoe wants to say she’s Queen Elizabeth I come back to life, I will say nothing.
I just find personal fault with her attitude regarding this, but whatever. It’s her life, I’m not sharing a body with her.
I know I’m not supposed to, but I’m jello of the second one (J-Law)’s tiny mouth and nose.
You would be right. I’m quite certain it’s just my neuroses triggered by racism that have made me grow overly sensitive about it.
@ColeYote These guys do more damage to men than the most repugnant evangelical pastors in the south.
One of my cats, Puffball, is an asshole. He likes to cuddle up on my desk while I’m on the computer late at night. He also likes to try and eat my food whenever I have something. Even though I am very absent-minded and sometimes walk away and just leave a half-eaten bowl of whatever out in the open for like eight hours, it’s not my fault if somebody comes along and just eats it.
It’s his fault. Even if I literally dusted it with catnip, it would still be his fault. And that’s my cat, who I mostly love to pieces. I can’t do much about him eating my food, shared food and stuff is kinda just how cat society works. Plus I don’t care too much about him eating behind me.
I forgot where I was going with this. I just love that asshat <3
(Sorry to repeat this: the regulars know my story. CW for sexual assault and pedophilia.)
Just a reminder: when I was raped, I was the “chill girl.” I didn’t want to ruin this guy’s life (I thought of my rapist as a friend, someone I genuinely cared about), and I knew what my case looked like from outside: I knew this fellow, and I did not cut off contact with him. I believed he had made a mistake. I believed that I could suck it up and deal, because what other choice did I have? I believed that this guy had the bad taste to fall in love with someone who couldn’t love him back, and had been so steeped in the culture that physical torturing a woman and threatening of suicide were “romantic.”
The FBI contacted me.
He was a serial rapist and producer/ trader of child sexual images. I wasn’t his first or his last. I was just his first whose age could be measured in double digits.
I know I sound like Peter Parker at this point, but every child he touched after I “let him off” is my responsibility and my fault. This guy, he was a literal monster: too psychologically deformed to be able to control or stop himself, but if I’d had the cops talk to him, maybe he’d have been scared enough to straighten up and fly right, or been caught unprepared and not have the time to obliterate his trail and protect his clientele and sources.
Don’t be sorry it happened to me. It really, really sucked, but it made me a better person, more compassionate and better at boundaries. Just— do be aware that sometimes, you are protecting more than yourself when you report people who attack you.
In related news, the GOP’s just declared being a rape or DV survivor to be a pre-existing condition in the latest draft of their classicide bill.
But there’s no War On Women*. Right.
*Yes, lurking trolls, I know that men (and NB people) can be victims too, but try telling that to the GOP.
Good god. I wish I was surprised by the dystopian, genocidal crap the GOP keeps trying to pull.
Aunt Podger:
Hugs and support from a net stranger, but one who has been there.
SFHC, I may as well croak right now. At my age, every medical problem I have is “pre-existing”.
@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
The GOP needs to die in a fucking ditch.
Aunt Podger
The assaults he committed after you weren’t your fault, they were his. They are his responsibility, nobody else’s. Please believe that.
It is very kind of people to say it wasn’t my fault (and I do appreciate the hugs and kindness), but… what if it were your eight-year-old daughter and you were sitting in court that day and heard, “Yup, he had a history, even assaulted someone who knows better, but her idea of herself as a nice person was more important than reporting a crime”? Would you say, “Oh, no, rapist’s fault, image purveyor’s fault?” Or would you say, “Bitch could have saved my little girl and she did nothing because she might hurt the fee-fees and personal potential of the guy who raped her so violently [redacted, because you don’t need that imagery]”?
I could have saved them. I chose not to stop him. That bitchy, bitchy dharma is on me.
Who in the fuck thinks of their daughter that way??!?
Donald Trump, for one.
Any number of rapist fathers, for another.
OFFS. We don’t wear makeup and lingerie just for YOU, bozo. Some of us do it strictly for our own amusement, and that amusement doesn’t entail accusing a man (falsely or otherwise) of rape. Ever thought of that? No…of course not.
Exhibit A: Every “Bang” book Roosh Fucking Valizadeh ever wrote. Even if it IS bad fiction. Also, every pickup manual every pickup artist ever wrote. Women get nothing of the sort to go by except maybe The Rules, and that one was discredited when one of the Rules Fools got divorced. Anyhow, those books were widely panned by critics, and rejected by most women.
Uh…the perpetrator? Just a wild guess.
Uh…because that’s not what happened? Because their relationship, while disgusting and hurtful to Elizabeth Edwards in the extreme (and therefore immoral), was CONSENSUAL? And because John Fucking Edwards really hurt his cancer-stricken, dying wife by screwing around behind her back and getting his mistress pregnant? Just a wild guess.
Aunt Podger: I understand. Truly.
In other asshole news:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-counter-violent-domestic-extremism-white-supremacism-cve-funding-freeze-10-million-a7715101.html
Because nothing says tough on extremism like stopping funding to combat our own home-grown terrorists.
Yeah, that’ll show ’em.
Yeah, I know. Permit me to feel a little bit disgusted at seeing it to blatantly cheerleaded, though.
@PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
What’s the problem he’s just serving the interests of his constituents? /s
If that isn’t enough the fact that the new health(read;kill the poor people) bill is going to be voted on tomorrow, with fuzzy news regarding how likely it is to win/lose.
Ooglyboggles:
His “constituents” must be wildly happy about it, since they fucking belong to the groups this funding was actively trying to fight.
Goddamned assholes in Congress. Like I told SFHC, I may as well just die now, because everything that’s currently medically wrong with me can be termed “pre-existing.” Bloody fucking ghouls.
And screw my daughter and granddaughter, huh? Both have “pre-existing” conditions.
My other kid? Well, she’s breathing, which I’m sure will net her an URI one day, and that’ll soon be a pre-existing condition because she fucking BREATHES.
Stupid shitgoblin Congress.
@PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
Especially with the formation of militant groups, almost like he’s fostering his own brownshirts or something.
They’re trying really hard to pass a bill to kill my Aunt when her Diabetes didn’t do the job…
Oh and for those people who say “they have compassion, they just never known it personally. When it happens to them they’ll see”, yes, I should sympathize with the people who literally want to murder poor people and only care when it affects THEM. As Jesus said “fuck anyone who isn’t in your tribe and the poor, weak, and sick are devil worshipers.”
Fucking hell even when we got 100 days of giving Trump the Middle Finger everytime he tries to play Tyrant, it doesn’t even feel like a victory. It feels like blocking off another terrible thing of things the GOP wants one after the other.
I’m supposed to go to the doctor for some stuff next week. I think I’m going to cancel. I don’t want any diagnoses.