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aggrieved entitlement antifeminism creepy incel misogyny self-hatred

Incel story time: “It’s Feminism’s fault I’m incel”

Riding the bus at night can be pretty creepy

As bad as most of the misogynistic ideas I write about on this blog tend to be, they at least have a certain perverse logic to them; if you accept their deeply flawed premises, at least long enough to try to parse the arguments, the conclusions make a sort of rough sense.

But when I wander into the online worlds of the so-called “involuntary celibates” I can quickly lose my moorings. Most incels are hugely depressed, and as I know from my own experience dealing with depression of varying degrees of severity over several decades, deep depression not only distorts your thinking; it also can make you weirdly self-obsessed, assuming that everything that happens in the world has something to do with you — both with your own imagined failings and with the alleged injustices the world supposedly imposes on you.

When you combine all this with the standard bad ideas of the misogynistic manosphere, incel “logic” can quickly become very strange indeed.

I say all this as a sort of introduction to this little “true story”I found on the Incels subreddit, a story that starts out with an awkward not-quite-interaction on a largely deserted bus and ends with a plot twist I have to say I never saw coming.

So let’s take a look at the post titled “Feminism’s fault I’m incel,” (archived here) by a fellow calling himself Brazierlord.

I was sitting next to this girl on the bus the other day and as the bus starting emptying out, I stood up to change seats like a good male is supposed to. I would be labeled as a danger to females if they saw me continue to sit next to that innocent female when I could easily move – obviously I was preparing to stalk her and rape her as soon as we got off the bus.

Obviously what he means by that last bit is that the others on the bus might consider him a bit creepy if he continued to sit next to the girl in question when there were now plenty of open seats. But his choice of words here, while meant sarcastically, make him seem even creepier than he intends.

So I stand up and I see her look at me through the corner of my eye. I move to the seat behind and at angle of -45 degrees from the horizontal to her. The entire time she is tracking me. Once I am seated she looks away and lays her head on the window.

Maybe she’s “tracking you” because you’re “tracking her” as you move to a new seat.

We get to our stop and she glances back at me. I am standing at this point and she hurries off the bus and nearly breaks into a run in the opposite direction.

Either she’s in a hurry, is nervous about being out alone, or our narrator really is giving off a creepy vibe.

So far, this seems to be a relatively straightforward story of a guy who may be giving off more of a creepy vibe than he realizes.

Then we get this:

If it weren’t for feminism I wouldn’t have changed seats and she wouldn’t hate me for breaking her heart. She probably would have followed me to my apartment and asked me if she could have sex with me and I wouldn’t be a virgin anymore

WHAT.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You didn’t break her heart. At best, she barely noticed you; at worst, you creeped her out. That’s it. Everything else is going on in your head, and nowhere else. Women do not follow strange men to their apartments to ask them for sex because they happened to sit next to each other on the bus. This is the sort of fantasy you come up with when you can’t imagine actually interacting with a woman as a real human being.

Get off of r/Incels and into therapy. Please. For your sake, and for the sake of every woman you sit next to on the bus.

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Bina
7 years ago

If it weren’t for feminism I wouldn’t have changed seats and she wouldn’t hate me for breaking her heart. She probably would have followed me to my apartment and asked me if she could have sex with me and I wouldn’t be a virgin anymore

Dude, literally NO woman follows men to wherever they live and begs them for sex. That’s just you, imputing your own sad-ass motives to her. Stop that.

And speaking of your motives: GET HELP. YOU NEED IT. At the very least, get help for thinking that you have to lose your virginity by any means possible, even stalking a complete stranger, because that kind of cogitation isn’t healthy. It’s the way rapists think, among other things. If you want women to trust you, start by actually being trustworthy. It’s not complicated. Really!

(Ugh. It’s incels’ fault I’m a feminist. Because if these guys were not THIS FUCKING CREEPY, I wouldn’t feel compelled to put more distance between them and myself in precisely such an awkward, frightened manner as this girl did. Or dissect their inanities on the internet like this. Ugh. Ugh. UGH.)

Croquembouche, poorly-dressed vandal
Croquembouche, poorly-dressed vandal
7 years ago

@ Francesca, Redsilkphoenix,
As I recall (long time since I read it), the fantasies of a “zipless fuck” in Erica Jong’s “Fear of Flying” were quite erotic; the reality, when it was offered, was rather less so.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@Bina

Dude, literally NO woman follows men to wherever they live and begs them for sex.

Oh, I beg to differ.

The Femoid Collective does.

The Femoids are out there! The Femoid cannot be bargained with. She can’t be reasoned with! She doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And she will not rest until copulation (with you).

Ariblester
7 years ago

@Haise, the husky puppy

I sincerely doubt that the film is a troll, or anything more than a 50/60-something engineer’s paean to his twin loves of torturing (particularly slowly asphyxiating) “strong women” (who, of course, are both conventionally attractive and unknowable and menacing) and steampunk. And, lest we forget, male supremacy.

(@Dalilama, I don’t mean to presume too much from your choice of avatar, but how would you rate the steampunk-ness of this…project?)

Come to think of it, the entire premise is rather reminiscent of that one scene from “Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS”, where they have a female inmate standing on the ice block with a noose around her neck, mixed with Sucker Punch minus the brogressive ‘feminist’ message.

Sister Bat'leth of Rational Discussion
Sister Bat'leth of Rational Discussion
7 years ago

@ MexicanHotChocolate: I said something similar once to a guy who kept complaining about how he couldn’t get a date and blaming women for it (this was in an online community). His response? “I’ll change my attitude when my luck changes. Not before.”

Talk about your self-fulfilling prophesies!

Re the OP… I think it may be a good thing that I’m well past the Invisibility Threshold. Because I have my share of dark and creepy fantasies, and I’m a reasonably good role-player. I wonder how this dude would have reacted to someone going creepy as shit on him.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I hate to state the obvious, but if you are a heterosexual man and won’t even talk to women, er excuse me, femoids, let alone try to sleep with them, then you’re not so much involuntary celibate as you are voluntarily celibate. Nothing wrong with being voluntarily celibate, but don’t be mad at feminism or women as a whole for a choice that you, and you alone made.

Bina
7 years ago

Also, @Oogly:

Bina
7 years ago

@Franscesca:

The Femoids are out there! The Femoid cannot be bargained with. She can’t be reasoned with! She doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And she will not rest until copulation (with you).

I stand (or rather, sit) corrected.

And after initiating copulation, the Femoid turns into a mantis, and starts feeding on her unsuspecting mate’s head. Because all that stressful pursuit of sexytimes gives a girl insectoid the munchies, don’tchaknow?

http://i.imgur.com/GGyW7r9.jpg

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@Aribilester

Yo, did you see those screenshots from the movie where heavily made up women who look like they’re going to have a nice night out are being hung from ropes while making orgasm faces?

Holy fuck. It’s not just totally unrealistic, it is fetishized to the point where it is impossible to ignore. I’m glad you noticed it.

You are absolutely correct. The person who made it jerks off to the idea of harming and killing women.

Fantastic. And by fantastic, I mean totally fucking awful. Squick!

@Bina

I’m imagining a large, sexy, humanoid female praying mantis right now and it kinda looks like the Alien Queen, except green and more mantis-ey.

ETA:

Also, why the fuck has steampunk become the stomping grounds of awful racist white dudes?

I used to like it, goddamn it! Waaaaaaaah!

[shakes a tiny fist at the sky]

Ooglyboggles
7 years ago

@Franscesca Torpedo
@Haise, the husky puppy
@eli
@PeeVee the (Timber-Rattling Booger Slut, But Noice) Sarcastic
@Myriad
@Croquembouche, poorly-dressed vandal
@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
@Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer
@Bina

Celebrate Good Times Come On! : D

@Bina & @ Franscesca Torpedo

First three results on Google “mantis humanoid”comment image
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/monstergirlencyclopedia/images/a/a8/1469510564311.pngcomment image

Not sure which one is the scariest to get eaten by.

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

Also, why the fuck has steampunk become the stomping grounds of awful racist white dudes?

Has it? Aw, no. I like steampunk. I go to steampunk parties and gigs. I liked how gender-diverse it was (albeit very white.) If the Nazis are infiltrating steampunk then I’m gonna be pissed.

Granted, I will be pissed in a genteel way whilst wearing a fob watch and bowler hat, but the point is made.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
7 years ago

@Ooglyboggles:

comment image

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@EJ

It’s been happening for a while now, actually. I used to be really deep into steampunk in its earliest phases in the early 2000s, and then fell off of it when I noticed the contingent of racists inside.

It’s been like this for me with other fandoms too. The Star Wars fandom displayed its true colors when TFA came out and badly soured me on what had originally been one of my oldest and most favored fandoms.

The Medieval Fantasy fiction and roleplay groups quickly lost me when they began using their fandom as a platform to rant and gesticulate at great length about how utterly superior European White People were. I lost interest in Renfaires for the same reason.

http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2012/01/100-renaissance-fairs.html

Take this article, for example.

Renaissance fairs. White people dressing up as… white people from the 10th – 15th centuries, in celebration of the culture and traditions that were found in England during this time period.

For Black people, a renaissance fair is just another reminder that even white people 500 – 700 years ago were far more advanced and lived in safer communities than Black people in Africa do now.

In direct opposition to this, I always wanted to go to a Renfaire up until I bumped into motherfuckers like this guy.

I’m still probably gonna do it. I made up my mind that if I ever become really rich, I’m gonna fucking buy a horse farm just so I can have my own horse, dress up as a Princess Knight, ride to a Renfaire, stare at all the white people, and be like, “fuck you, I’m a princess knight and I’m black..”

I’m basically just going to wear a period-specific dress for a princess and a breastplate and helmet.

I will raise horses and breed them and invite my Internet Friends to ride with me. I’m totally fucking serious. If I win the lotto or if one of my books or creative pursuits magically nets me a fortune, or if I make some scientific breakthrough that makes me rich, or some other fortuitous event, I will fucking do this thing, I swear by all my Gods and Goddesses, I will do it.

The only fandom that I belong to that hasn’t disappointed me is the Harry Potter fandom.

I’m in the pony fandom right now and there are so many fucking nazis. It is un-fucking-believable.

ETA:

I forgot to mention that my beloved anime and gaming fandoms have already violently proved their awful nature, but I’m sure we all already know about that.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@EJ

Also, you may have inspired me to rejoin Steampunk, if only to stand up to the Nazis.

I shall join you in your righteous yet civilized anger with my polite and ladylike Stern Looks of Disapproval.

Ooglyboggles
7 years ago

@Franscesca Torpedo

The only fandom that I belong to that hasn’t disappointed me is the Harry Potter fandom.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/06/entertainment/jk-rowling-hermione-cursed-child/

The moral of this story is “wow these guys are assholes.”

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@Oogly-senpai

[heavy sigh]

[crosses HP off the List of Good Fandoms]

Mind you, I haven’t left these fandoms because of these things. It’s just that my enjoyment has diminished somewhat. Hard to fucking just relax and enjoy something when you are painfully aware that wildly racist, misogynistic, intolerant people who object to your very existence also enjoy it.

Moggie
Moggie
7 years ago

Artist’s impression of the incel story:

http://images3.static-bluray.com/reviews/6185_5.jpg

If I’m sat beside you on the bus, I’m probably barely aware of you, because I’ll be buried in a book (currently: Beyond Infinity: an expedition to the outer limits of the mathematical universe by Eugenia Cheng). If I don’t move when more seats are available, it’s because I haven’t noticed.

It’s sad to hear that racists are infesting steampunk, but I suppose not surprising. Mainly because racists are everywhere, but also because that’s a fandom which celebrates an old-timey aesthetic, and racists are nostalgic for a past where PoC were less uppity, or just less. I suppose they’ll continue to stink up everything.

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
7 years ago

“I’m involuntarily celibate”

“I don’t speak to femoids”

No, mate you are voluntarily celibate. You are doing that to yourself.

And for anyone worried about insulting someone they move away from on public transport just say somthing like “I’ll give us both a bit more space” as you move.

Valentine
Valentine
7 years ago

@PeeVee

So you mean the man who made this paid rok to let him advertise his garbage fire?

@Francesca

Re. Going with people in their cars. Its not always but i didnt really think of being afraid doing it. It is quite normal in my city and also i have done it in russia a few times. Last time in Novorossiysk it was free! The normal thing is that if it is cold or late at night people will stop and offer to you. Or you can do like hitch hiking. My friend sometimes does it in Odesa in the night. Just driving around to relax and taking people places if they need for a little bit of money.

I mean i don’t know about the US i have been there only twice and i only had a few hours ashore from the ship i was working on. I went in Philadelphia. I thought most people were very friendly. Especially when i asked for directions and stuff. It was raining too and people asked me if i was okay even! Because i didnt have umbrella ?

But also i dont know because i am a man and also not from the US so i can’t say exactly for your situation.

And also regarding the different things wrong with this mans film, i am looking at it from a white male perspective, so i apologies for missing out those other issues. Though we can both agree it is disgusting all over.

I hope like someohe said it is just a troll. That would be awesome!

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@Moggie

“You can’t roleplay as a black person in this European Medieval Fantasy online RP chat, they didn’t exist in Europe in large numbers back then.”

This is absolutely 100% a real thing I have been told.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@Valentine

Don’t be sorry! That’s what I’m here for; to provide insight as to how these things affect me. Please, I really hope you didn’t feel bad. It is 100% not your fault.

And, yes, it’s some disgustingly weird shit all over. Absolutely awful. I’m with you there.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
7 years ago

Surprisingly, I’m yet to run into any obvious Nazis in the Portal fandom, and that’s the one I’m the most active in (I’ll give you a moment to recover from the surprise =P)… I suppose the one-two-three punch of a mixed-race female protagonist, a non-sexualised female villain and a focus on thinking over shooting and showing over telling scares most of ’em away.

JS
JS
7 years ago

The other moral is, fandoms can be influenced positively by a sufficiently annoyed author. One reason there aren’t so many fascist(“alt-right”)/racist types in the HPotter fandom is J K Rowling truly seems to dislike them, and is quite public about it. I believe she’s even gone on record as astrophysicist friendly. The books are OK, but the author keeps making me happy.

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)

@Francesca:
You will always be welcome upon my zeppelin. Tea will be served at seventeen o’clock in the blue drawing room.

Speaking of steampunk, I’m going to plug one of my favourite recent things: the video game 80 Days. I saw the creators at a panel and they were awesome. One of the writers talked about how they tried to create respectful steampunk tropes that made sense in non-European countries, for example in Arabia where coal and water are both too scarce for steam engines. The other writer – a badass black woman – talked about how she found herself unconsciously writing too many white male NPCs and how she had to go back and count her diversity numbers to make sure it was equal.

Hearing them, I thought to myself, “EJ, these are some big ol’ SJWs. You must vote with your wallet and buy their game, even if it sucks.”

Fortunately the game itself is really good and has enormous replayability. My best time so far is 79 days.

Franscesca Torpedo
Franscesca Torpedo
7 years ago

@SFHC

I’ve been getting into Undertale for the same reason.

Gender-neutral child of indeterminate race? Gay robots? Lesbian monsters?

Nazis: AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The Touhou fandom is kinda alright but I hesitate to make judgment calls about it.

There’s probably a picture of Reimu or Marisa sieg-heiling while wearing Nazi regalia somewhere.

@EJ

The other writer – a badass black woman

I’m sold.

As a black transwoman I am fully on board with something like this.

She sounds just like me. I used to exclusively write about and roleplay as White and Asian people for a very long time.

It was only recently when I decided to play as people who look more like myself that I started meeting resistance from my partners and audience.