The alt-right is leaking into the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit again.
In a post in the subreddit today, a fellow calling himself JFK7878 sets forth an intriguing theory: “Draconian child support is part of white genocide.”
How so, you ask? Well, if white dudes knew they wouldn’t have to pay for any children they helped to produce, they’d be out there breeding white babies like you wouldn’t believe:
“What would happen if suddenly there was no child support or alimony ?” JFK7878 asks, before providing the answer to his own question.
Population would explode. Men could simply go and spread their seed impragnating multiple women with no fear of financial destruction.
Impragnating? I guess that’s how babby is formed.
Goverment could easily support these mothers, they spent billions on useless submarines and nuclear weapons to ‘protect us’ Im pretty sure they could find money on new citizens.
FLAWLESS LOGIC.
The reason for ridiculous child support payments, divorce rape and alimony is to destroy white population, it effects mostly decent men who have good jobs and arent thugs or drug dealers. Such financially destroyed man will not be able to have more children with other women without worsening his situation. He will not have chance to have another family but he will have to work as a slave. Also no child support, alimony and divorce rape could reduce divorces by 80% creating stable society.
So unfair that good white men can’t just have babies with every white woman they see without having any financial responsibility for them!
If you’re thinking this sounds like a devious plot against the White Man, guess what, it is!!1!
It’s all by design. Demography crisis could be solved in one day and it only exist because the system is constructed to create it. It works.
How many of you dont have children because of fear of 18 years of child support ?
Well, I’d guess it has more to do with the fact that none of these guys can find anyone who will let them get near their vaginas, but if they’re holding back because of fear of child support, that’s good, too. These guys should not be having children. They probably shouldn’t even be allowed to have pets.
To be fair the concept of child support is flawed. 1. It really doesn’t punish deadbeat dads unless they are barely scrapping by, guys that have a ton of money but have little to no interest in raising a child are barely effected by it.
2. If a guy happens to be raped or if his partner decides to sabatoge birth control because of delusions then it clearly doesn’t help anyone.
3. The government providing more services and funding for single mothers would be a very good thing.
4. Kids don’t need just financial help they need role models and support. A paycheck isn’t going to fill the void of an absent father/mother.
Child Support in its current state is a backwards and flawed system that barely provides for the child. Instead there should be a system that is provided for single mothers and their kids that not only provides financial aid but can also provide emotional support. So the MRAs have a point that Child Support is a flawed system but the racism hurts the argument a lot
That isn’t an issue with the concept of child support. It’s an issue of ineffective enforcement.
I do think that when the non-custodial parent is a rape victim, that that is the one case in which they shouldn’t be liable for child support. By the same token, non-custodial parents who are the rapist shouldn’t get visitation or custodial rights.
I’m not sure what you mean by sabotaging birth control because of delusions? If the father took advantage of someone who was mentally incapacitated however, he’s not going to be the one I feel for bad. As to willful birth control sabotage, well, it sucks, but pregnancy is a consequence of sex and it’s a risk you take if you have consensual sex. The child support is for the child. The child exists no matter how they got here and their needs must be met.
Yes it would, but in the US where I am, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. I would be delighted if we either had a universal basic income or a very robust social welfare system that would get rid of the need for child support. Until we have it, child support is necessary for the kids who need it now.
Non-involved non-custodial parent + child support is better for the child than non-involved non-custodial parent + no child support though.
Also, it is possible for a kid’s emotional needs to be met outside of the nuclear family paradigm. You’re also ignoring the fact that sometimes one parent has full physical custody because the other parent is abusive or neglectful. There are some parents that children are better off without, unfortunately.
The racism isn’t just an afterthought to his argument though. It’s one of the main features of his argument. I’m also curious as to what the system you speak of would look like and whether or not you think we should discontinue the current child support system before this system that you want is put into place. I’m especially curious as to what you mean by government provided emotional support? I’m also curious about what you think the non-custodial parent’s role should be in the whole thing. Do they have rights and responsibilities at all?
Child support is not meant to punish anyone. It is meant to support the child. The very fact that you think child support is a punishment probably leads to your second misconception:
Do you even know what a “deadbeat” parent is? It’s a parent who doesn’t pay child support. Guys who have a ton of money and pay their child support on time are not deadbeats. They may be absentee parents, but not deadbeats. Learn your terminology.
True, but killing child support would not solve this problem. It would just create the new problem of yet more children in poverty. Children should not live in poverty regardless of how involved their parents want to be.
They have no point, because the “flaws” they point out are not actually flaws unless one thinks children should be like toys that don’t require any care when one isn’t interested in playing with them. The actual flaws of the child support system escape MRAs entirely.
“If I name myself Mammothqueen, they’ll never figure out that I’m an MRA! Mwahahaha!”
Your cunning plan, it has failed.
@MammothQueen
For the record, I absolutely support socialized child care funding that might replace parental child support. I find some of your arguments a bit odd, though.
Child support is not intended to punish anyone, nor should it be. The purpose of child support is to provide for the child.
Plenty of people who pay child support have relationships with their children.
1. Visitation and child support are not tied. That protects the non-custodial parent who may for a myriad of reasons fall behind in payments. The custodial parent cannot leverage visitation because the laws already sees both parents contribution as more than financial.
It has already been mentioned that child support is not punishment. It is merely the state seeing that the child’s needs are met. Foster care will also require child support for parents who do not meet the courts requirements for biological families to be reunited in a timely manner but do not forfeit parental rights.
2. It helps the child. Men can voluntarily forfeit parental rights if they don’t want to pay child support. As I’ve known judges to offer that option to a statutory rapist and to a father who doubted the paternity of his children who were in state care (no genetic tests required), I don’t think a man who was raped would have a problem legally giving up parental rights, at least not in this state.
In both cases the state is looking out for its own interests ultimately. When a parent isn’t supporting their child, the state knows it will have to. The state would rather not be involved if the parents can do the job themselves. It’s costly and time consuming.
You and I do agree that the welfare of its people, children included, should be more of a priority, but it just isn’t.
Child support is not gendered. Mothers pay child support too.
3. Yes, a guaranteed income combined with a stronger social safety net would be great for everyone. That wouldn’t mean both parents wouldn’t be expected to contribute financially to the welfare of their child.
You seem to be saying that an unmarried mother should expect no support from the father. I know some fathers who would be incredibly offended by that implication. Why should a married father have different responsibilities from a married father?
4. ?????
You can’t force a parent to spend time with their kids. Taking $ away from the child won’t put an absent parent back in their life.
Not all parents are role model material. I’ve met many kids and teens who were better off in a single parent household than with two bad parents. Even group homes, which I have so many issues with, are sometimes a better place to grow up.
The two parent model of a family isn’t empirically proven to be the superior environment for children. Situations vary and no one model seems to be the universal best.
Racism is central to the argument in this post. It isn’t an afterthought.
thiiiiisssss
I was almost in tears over this not too long ago. A friend of mine has been absolutely struggling with this for years now. Some people should simply not be parents. They aren’t responsible enough for themselves, much less a child.
Also, hello @Mammothqueen! I am not entirely sure what you’re contesting here – I don’t think anyone considers child support payments to be a perfect system. I’ll happily agree with that.
It is, however, plenty more fair than what the MGTOW suggests in the article above. He suggests that the government should pay all child support payments – i.e. that the cost of raising children should be shouldered by society at large. I actually don’t disagree with that on its face, to be fair! Stopped clocks and all that. Others have talked about universal incomes, and I agree with them on that. But he’s arguing that men should be able to shirk responsibility for their children, and that I disagree with so heavily it makes my lip curl.
Is that what you’re arguing here, that they should be more responsible, and be a role model to their children? I mean, yeah, I agree, with the caveat that they should have the character of a good role model. With the screed from the OP above, I imagine the best thing would be for that guy to stay far, far away from children in general. Don’t want any of that gross white supremacy leeching off by osmosis.
@Mammothqueen
Speaking as someone with an experience working pro bono cases in Family Law:
More often than not these victimized deadbeat dads have had the money to pay child support. The fact is they choose not to because this expense conflicts with their lifestyle.
This lifestyle I’m referring to can be traced back to what triggered the separation and/or subsequent divorce: unfaithfulness and/or unwillingness to meet obligations as a parent and/or husband on behalf of men.
I saw it every day. The women that came to our legal assistance center did not look the least bit spiteful, they were in disbelief. These women were in total and utter disbelief that their partners of years actually had another family on the side, other kids and more than one mistress.
Plenty of these men made enough money to pay for the needs of their kids, but doing so would prevent them from living their fuckboy lifestyle.
From my experience, men hate the idea of child support not because it lives them destitute. No, it’s is because whilst married they had an easier time getting away with not meeting their obligations and taking care of their kids (society assumes you do that as a default when you’re married and living with your spouse).
It’s an entirely different story after separation/divorce because then you’re more likely to get a judicial order granting you child support. MRA complaints about child support amount to nothing more than entitled whinning from men complaining that they can no longer get away with neglecting their children and dump all of their problems on their spouse.
In the dozens of cases of child support I had to oversee and play part in, not a single one wasn’t unsubstantiated. Not a single one had a poor working man scraping by at the other end. They were all assholes and players. And the women just lined up by the door for two hours because they literally just needed something to feed those kids with.
1. White Supremacy and MGTOW do not go together. In fact, they are complete opposites. MGTOW discourages men from starting families and White Supremacists encourages men from starting families. Plus, the first MGTOWs were black men. It wasn’t until third-wave feminism rose that white men joined in and gave it a name.
2. Having taxpayers pay for your child support only decreases families in the future. If all white men started impregnating scores of white women and (mostly younger) childless taxpayers would have to pay for their child support, the younger taxpayers that have a desire to start a family would be too financially burdened to start one. The childless are already paying a larger portion for children’s education and healthcare than families. So it’s white genocide one way or the other.
3. Since when is child support only for white people? That is similar to saying that we should ban abortion because it kills white babies.
MGTOW is not a synonym for single man. So none of your little points make any sense.
MGTOW is a right wing ideology that is primarily motivated by misogyny but is also informed by other bigotries. You can see that by clicking on the link in the OP. There you will see that this white supremacist rant is in the MGTOW subreddit and is not exactly out of place there.