To hear some tell it, there is no crueller torture a woman can inflict upon a man than to be his friend. Because, as the saddest sad men of the internet will happily explain to you at length, men and women can’t really be friends. Any woman who think she has male friends is fooling herself; all her supposed male friends have ulterior motives, if you know what I mean and I think you do.
They want to take her to the Bone Zone, in the parlance of our time, but she has put them in the Friend Zone instead, a hellish sexless purgatory that only the exquisitely charming and wholly fictional Jim Halpert on The Office has been able to escape. Such, at least, is the Friend Zone myth.
I’ve read a lot of silly things about the alleged evils of the alleged Friend Zone over the years, mostly in the form of terrible memes or scary rants on some misbegotten misogynist subreddit. But the silliest thing I’ve read on the subject for some time is a post that went up earlier this week on The Federalist, a right-wing media outlet with a heavy Christian bent.
In “Why Men and Women Can Never Be ‘Just Friends,'” Lutheran pastor and “comical video” maker Hans Fiene argues that we need to “tear down the Friend Zone” so American men and women can marry younger and “raise our sagging birth rates” so the world won’t run out of babies.
No, really.
All of us need to start having more babies or else the upcoming demographic tsunami will consume our nation, cripple our social programs, and leave us with a future so bleak that our only source of joy will be the moment we’re chosen to receive the sweet, fatal kiss of the Obamacare Death Panels, the Trumpcare Firing Squads, or the OprahCare Hemlock Squadrons.
Despite the achingly off-key “humor” at the end there — did I mention that Fiene makes “comical videos” on the side? — this argument, such as it is, is meant in all seriousness. As Fiene sees it, every day America’s hapless males waste in the Friend Zone is a day they could be making babies with a loving wife.
Being caught in the Friend Zone is an inarguable drag on fertility rates, as a man who spends several years pledging his heart to a woman who will never have his children is also a man who most likely won’t procreate with anyone else during that time of incarceration. Free him to find a woman who actually wants to marry him, however, and he’ll have several more years to sire children who will laugh, create, sing, fill the world with love and, most importantly, pay into Social Security.
Quite simply, for the sake of our future, the Friend Zone must be destroyed.
Fiene’s case against the Friend Zone is if anything even sillier than his demographic alarmism. He begins by sketching out the true horror of the purgatory that is the Friend Zone.
Every year, countless young men find themselves trapped in the Friend Zone, a prison where women place any man they deem worthy of their time but not their hearts, men they’d love to have dinner with but, for whatever reason, don’t want to kiss goodnight.
Fiene is apparently baffled and appalled by the notion that any woman might want to have dinner with a man without wanting — literally — to have his babies.
The women of America, he argues, need to accept two harsh truths: “you don’t have any guy friends and, in fact, you can’t have any guy friends” — because any dude who likes to spend time alone with a woman actually just wants to get with her.
Fiene has a rather hackneyed notion of what men are looking for in a friend — basically a dudely dude type
who shares his interest in activities such as watching movies where things explode, playing video games where things explode, or putting fireworks in things so they’ll explode.
And in Fiene’s mind, women just aren’t qualified for that position, which strikes me as a rather strange contention because, well, my best friend IS a woman, and we have spent many hours over many years “watching movies where things explode [and] playing video games where things explode.”
We’ve also spent many hours watching Project Runway, and gleefully mocking the worst dressed at the Academy Awards. Because we’re actual human beings whose interests don’t map directly onto hackneyed stereotypes of what men and women enjoy. (She does have a hard time convincing me to watch Jane Austen movies though.) Oh, and we have no interest in sex or romance with each other; we enjoy those things with other people.
But I guess I’m delusional to think she and I are real friends, because everything she provides, friendship-wise, could apparently be provided much more efficiently by another dude. As Fiene sees it, “the average male coworker, male neighbor, or male Nepalese yak herder is better at producing masculine companionship” than women. Indeed, as Fiene (or his editor) declares in a big bold subhed, “There’s Only One Thing You Can Give His Man Friends Can’t.”
And, no, that isn’t “vagina.” It’s “vagina in the context of a loving marriage,” though Fiene doesn’t put it quite that baldly.
Addressing his female readers directly, Fiene tells them that when a man signs you up as a friend,
It’s not because he wants your friendship. It’s because he wants to convince you to open up the supply chain of a romantic relationship to him, and he foolishly believes he can do so by being a loyal friendship customer. “Pay my dues in the Friend Zone,” he thinks, “and one day she’ll promote me to boyfriend.”
Fiene assures the ladies that
Just because men don’t want to be your friend, however, doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy your company. They most certainly do. They love discovering how you see the world, what you think about life, the universe, and everything. They love your kindness, thoughtfulness, sensitivity, support, and your nurturing heart. They love being in your presence when you display the wonders of the feminine virtues.
At least when those “feminine virtues” come as part of a package deal with vagina — though, again, Fiene puts it a bit more delicately.
[B]ecause God designed these [feminine] virtues to entice men into marriage, the average man will never be content to receive those gifts in a form of companionship that doesn’t lead to marriage. Quite simply, men can’t be at peace being just friends. And there’s nothing you can do to change that. Platonic chilling won’t stop your inner (and outer) beauty from pulling a man towards romantic love.
So what is to be done? The women of America need to clear out their Friend Zones — kicking the guys they don’t find attractive to the curb and marrying up those guys who at least sort of stir their loins a little.
First, he informs the female reader, she needs to address those Friend-Zoned men who don’t
fill you with the biological desire to repopulate the earth? If not, then do your “friend” a solid and let him go. Call him up and tell him, “It’s not my fault that your facial symmetry grosses out my ovaries, but it was my fault that I got your hopes up by putting you in the Friend Zone. As restitution, please accept the phone numbers of five girls I know who find you attractive. Stop wasting your time with me and go hang out with a girl who might one day bear your children.”
Apparently Fiene thinks human beings talk to each other like that.
“Conversely,” Fiene continues,
if you find your guy friend attractive, and if you see him as a man of character and heart, then call him right now and tell him that he was placed in the Friend Zone due to a clerical error. Say to him, “You make me laugh and would be a great husband and father. Clearly, you need to be on the express track to the Marriage Zone.”
How … romantic?
Fiene concludes his strange little anti-Friend Zone manifesto with a stirring paean to the transcendent glories of … increased baby production.
So get brave. Get married. Get pregnant a bunch of times and give birth to a bunch of beautiful little future taxpayers. The time has come to fight for our future. The time has come to rebuild America’s demographic glory atop the rubble of the fertility-killing Friend Zone.
I think I’ll pass, thanks!
So who exactly is this manifesto supposed to inspire? Nothing in it bears much resemblance to the world I live in. Fiene’s resolutely heteronormative, baby-centric utopia offers nothing to the gay, bi, or trans folk I know, nor is it going to appeal to those with no interest in traditional marriage and/or children. Hell, its visions of masculinity and femininity are so constricted they don’t even fit most of the straight, cis people I know.
I certainly wouldn’t want to be trapped in the Fiene Zone, that’s for sure.
Incels in the mainstream media ?
Welp.
Ugh. More pretentious capitalist bullshit forcibly inserted into contexts where it doesn’t apply. It’s all through this, but for some reason this particular paragraph bugs the hell out of me. What is with this fucking persistent lie among men that becoming someone’s partner is ALWAYS a straight-line shot from saying hello to them.
Beep beep. I’m moving my boxed lunches through the supply chain of a romantic relationship!
Well, that’s one way to make sure you never have to worry about the friend zone: say things so repulsive that no woman will want to converse with you. Unfortunately this means you also do not have to worry about the marriage zone.
I just… *sigh*
I have several women whom I consider friends… some I consider very close friends. I consider it naive to say I can’t go to coffee with a woman without discussing marriage. I’m just not vice-president material, I guess.
I pity the men (and it seems to be mostly men, at least on this site 😉 ) who can’t have an interpersonal relationship with a woman without an expectation of sex. The good Mr. Feine is just wrong… no, not just wrong, wrong, short-sighted, insulting, and suffering from severely stunted social skills.
Mr. Gorbachev, etc etc
All the young men I know would be thrilled if their friends called them up and essentially proposed over the phone. Nothing creepy about that, no sir. Only, I guess they wouldn’t call. They’d probably text.
All of us need to start having more babies or else the upcoming demographic tsunami will consume our nation, cripple our social programs, and leave us with a future so bleak
Wow, if having children is so essential to the nation’s economic future, then perhaps children are not merely a private luxury but also a public good, and public policy should change accordingly. Maternity leave (and Paternity leave) should be made more generous. Child care should be made affordable. More should be invested in public education, and….oh, right.
Being caught in the Friend Zone is an inarguable drag on fertility rates, as a man who spends several years pledging his heart to a woman who will never have his children is also a man who most likely won’t procreate with anyone else during that time of incarceration.
Um…ok, I’ve been there, unfortunately, and I can say without reservation that any man who holds out for someone who’s not actually interested in starting a family with him can’t exactly blame the “friend zone” for not being able to find someone to start a relationship with, let alone a family. Odds are, the guy is actually not ready to start a family, and “romantically” mooning after the “unattainable” (and possibly getting bitter over it) is, if not an deliberate delaying tactic, an inadvertent one all the same.
“Pay my dues in the Friend Zone,” he thinks, “and one day she’ll promote me to boyfriend.”
So, if such a man spends years pining for one woman, and so is unable to start a family, but has multiple female friends he secretly wants to start families with, then…oh, God, why am I even trying to make sense of this?
Wow. The Manosphere has started to get some traction in the war of ideas. They don’t call it the Dark Enlightenment for nothing.
Of course on the other side of the ledger, that means the progressive utopian fantasy world derived from the first Enlightenment has started to implode.
I’m outside the bell curve on this, I have only a mild interest in Michael Bey movies, the only video game I ever played much was Donkey Kong when it was a stand-up arcade game. One of my very good friends is a woman with a degree in chemistry who likes to make things explode, tho…. I can yell at football players by myself if I wish, and fart jokes are only funny once.
Again, just me, but if those things happen to me, I want someone who’ll encourage me to open up… I don’t do well with stuffed pain. I have several friends who’ll do that for me, and the two I’d be most comfortable with are women.
“man tradition”…???
Why the hell don’t they think “Friend Zone” happens to women, is my question. If it’s real (which it really isn’t, because people move back and forth from friends to love interests), it’s definitely happened to me, and more than once. I have been attracted to guy friends and they were not interested back.
The difference is, I actually did like the guys and valued their friendship, so although they weren’t the least bit interested in me as anything more, and although I was really disappointed about that, we stayed friends. Because it actually is good to have friends.
And I like men, dammit, they’re mostly good folks.
The 1995 BBC adaptation of Pride & Prejudice is on Hulu. Give it a try?
In other news, sometimes the person you want to get naked ‘n sweaty with just isn’t that into you. Acceptance of this fact makes you a better person than the yutz who thinks they can manipulate or threaten their way out of the friend zone.
My best friend right now is a male, and I am sure he doesn’t mind being in the friend zone at all – after all, he is six months younger than my son, and I am happily married to someone he likes quite a lot. Does that mean we really aren’t friends? Of course we are…we respect each other, we like each other, and we have watched movies together. We both like the Coen brothers.
And as for the “future taxpayers” – I am so sick of this concept of baby, baby, baby…how many humans are we going to cram on this planet before we realize there are only so many resources to go around? Must we really reproduce until we’re each standing toe-to-heel with the next human being, and cramming hundreds into every house? Because right now, we have enough humans already, and it’s time we try to figure out how to make life better for all of those who are already here. Except, perhaps, all the manospherians. I’d definitely consider leaving them out of the party, let them see what it really feels like to be as bad off as they insist they are.
I must be manning wrong. I have several female friends who I’m not sexually attracted to, they’re more like sisters than potential lovers. Other than my long term girlfriend, my closest female friend is one of my former instructors at college and she already has kids.
With apologies for the derail – actually no, it’s fairly apropos actually: mention of something that tends to keep so many heads (mainly of the white-supremacist-xtian-obsessive variety) all asplodey –
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/muslim-population-overtake-christian-birthrate-20-years
I presume Fiene’s head may be among them, as he seems to have a bit of a thing about women=babymaking-machines and it would hardly be much of a leap to surmise that as a Lutheran pastor, only white xtian ones count for him.
Because women control ‘teh sex’, therefore women can never be “friend zoned”.
@Jarnsaxa
more than once. I have been attracted to guy friends and they were not interested back.
The difference is, I actually did like the guys and valued their friendship, so although they weren’t the least bit interested in me as anything more, and although I was really disappointed about that, we stayed friends. Because it actually is good to have friends.
Amen to that. Friendship is a wonderful thing. You might, at some point, have wanted a different kind of relationship with someone, but if they don’t feel that way about you, that doesn’t change the good things about that person, the things you have in common, and so on. We can’t have a romantic relationship with every interesting, attractive person out there. The friendships we have enrich our lives, and there is no good reason to limit them by gender.
I’ve been on Earth for seventeen years
AFAB and prob’ly genderqueer
And I behold a condensed block
Of all the shit I tend to hear
Destined to be some man’s wife
Alleged true purpose of life
And if you say that to my face
You’d best prepare for strife
And clearly all of this dude’s bids
Come from not just those who flipped their lids
But on an imitation of our generation
“How do you do, fellow kids?”
All those who bitch ’bout the “Friend Zone”
Wonder why no gal’s on their bone
Suffice to say they’re not quite there
On not winding up forever alone
Having kids is not for me
I find no grace in nurseries
I’d rather adopt, there’s quite a lot
Of suffering kids to remedy
And I’ll admit, I’m pasty white
But I’m pretty sure there’s no fight
To wage between us and those you deem
Unclean…god, that’s not right.
Seventeen and probably genderqueer
People like me have always been here
Neither women, nor men, precisely
But you can’t see through your foggy atmosphere
Where do you shuffle off we who don’t fit?
Are you going to claim our lives forfeit?
Or will you say something about snowflakes
Or rant on about the bits?
Really, you’ve got a fixation there
Phalluses and yonis everywhere
It’s kind of unsettling, and kind of damning
How you see lust in the air
A friend’s a friend no matter the gender
No zoning laws in the way of tender
Memories between so much as a gal and a guy
Even without putting the binary in a blender
It’s not just about sex, give humans some credit
We’re not going to do…that…because you said it
It’s just not what humans do, no need to ask just who
And no reason to point and say you’d bed it
Twice rejected in love, and still not shy
And I know there’s still some gal or guy
That’s willing to put up with me, through any endless misery
Until I see blue sky
There’s so many people on this Earth as it seems
Maybe you won’t get the girl of your dreams
But you can still find love, platonic or romantic
…If you stop focusing purely on memes.
The funny thing is, I do actually have male friends. Not only that, some of them are male FwB, which is also hilarious.
Because not only am I not going to marry any one of them, but we do sexual stuff (over the internet) all the time.
See, the problem isn’t that the whole world isn’t having enough babies, it’s that White, Cishet, Middle Class America specifically isn’t having enough babies.
Their babies have to outnumber the other babies, see?
Protip: If you’re someone who complains about being in the friend zone, you either aren’t friends or are a very bad one.
Anyway, I’d wonder how gay dudes fit into this guy’s ideas about interpersonal relationships, but I think I can guess.
Well, that was a ramble.
re: explosions
Mythbusters. All I’m sayin’.
Exactly. Anyone who complains about being in the “friend zone” isn’t, in my opinion, a real friend nor do they deserve to be.
If one of my female friends called me up and said all this unprompted I don’t know if I’d be more hurt or perplexed.
It’s like he’s working to ensure he’ll die alone.
Now, before I acquired the real definition of the Friend Zone through cultural osmosis, I always thought it was like one of those sweet indoor parks with the ball pits and crawling tubes and everything. Nerf gun fight? Sure! I’d love to join the Friend Zone!
Now I’m under the distinct impression that a lot of people take after ancient Athenian culture and believe women should never even go outside unless veiled and accompanied by a slave. That sounds a lot less fun than ball pits, to be honest.
@Jarnsaxa
You know, now that I think about it, that’s a pretty common trope that they should be ashamed for not acknowledging. I’m pretty sure there’s at least one 90’s movie and at least one Taylor Swift song which discusses the childhood best friend of the most popular guy in high school being spurned for the captain of the cheerleader squad or whatever. Definitely not the Friend Zone, though, as you still can’t jump in the ball pit.
@ColeYote
Exactly. Don’t blame whomever you placed your affections on for not being a mind reader of your desires or stars forbid, not be interested in having a relationship with you.
Delurking, just because this topic is so ridiculous…
Shorter Guy From OP: “Oh noez, need white baybeeeez ASAP so the Muslims don’t out-breed us! Quick, tear down the Friend Zone!”
*rolls eyes*
*grumbles something about “Quiverfull”*
Overpopulation, unequal distribution of resources, neglected kids, and other consequences must not matter to this guy much. What a piece of work.