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Angry dudes respond to my NYmag piece on the convergence of MGTOWs and the alt-right

MGTOWs: Building civilization by getting mad on the internet

It didn’t take MGTOWs long to find my New York magazine piece on the convergence of MGTOWs and the alt-right. A number of these lovely fellows decided to challenge my evil FAKE NEWS SLANDER by posting long comments over on NYmag.com that pretty much confirmed what a bunch of hateful, self-pitying and very, very angry dudes they are.

Here are some selections from their best comments (and by “best” I mean “most ridiculously terrible”).

The most, er, energetic comment of the bunch came from a fellow calling himself T0000009, one of those I quoted in the piece. (He’s the one who went on about how women “just want some stupid savage to breed them.”)

Take it away, T0000009!

David,

While I do realize that you’re an idiot who apparently can’t read, isn’t very familiar with the English language, or like every other moron who claims to be a “journalist” also happens to be too retarded to grasp simple concepts like research, don’t ever pretend you know my state of mind jackass!

That is not a complaint dummy, it’s the observable documented facts and easily verified reality even though you are unable to comprehend it, or it’s to painful of a reminder for that frail mind of yours to process. Your really pitiful attempt to virtue signal and claim everyone is a racist because your own feeble mind can’t handle the strain of factual reality makes you even more fake, phony and delusional than your well know reputation as a fake American hack.

Hmm. I don’t remember saying that “everyone is a racist” — though pretty much everyone in this flawed world of ours has some racism in them, if only on the unconscious level. I do think it’s fair, though, to say that guys who talk about women wanting “savage[s] to breed them” are huge racists.

With that in mind and all your other failures, get your facts straight next time dummy, I have better things to do than waste time schooling an insecure child or the other stupid fat trollops who can’t face the facts of life.

People who use the word “trollops” unironically are such charmers!

Moving on from the subject of me and my e went on to credit men — not including me — for building civilization, and like every manospherian with an apocalyptic bent he likes to fantasize that if and when said civilization eventually collapses, women who now want nothing to do with him will come to him, vaginas in hand, begging for help.

Men, not you slick, built the world while you and the cabal of tramps crying about us leaving you to fend for yourselves were blaming us for your own idiocy and poor choices. When it all crumbles that isn’t going to save you, and those tramps will be begging one of those useless vermin to save them with the only thing they have to offer, REAL newsflash kid it isn’t her personality because she doesn’t have one. Oh and all those ingrates from the third world won’t be much help either, suck it up buttercup and enjoy the pain and suffering you wanted.

We don’t want you, don’t need you, and could care less what you think!

He doesn’t care SO HARD that he just spewed forth several hundreds of words on how he DOESN’T CARE.

A fellow called YeahThatTim also wants us to know that men have created everything of value in the world.

Everything you see when you drive down the road, including the road, was built by men, not women. All of the world’s cities, neighborhoods and roads were built by man-ual labor, not fem-ual labor.

Ooh nice one.

All of the rights and privileges today’s women hold over men’s heads in exchange for the those two circles and a triangle were bought and paid for through the trafficking, exploitation, usury and disposal of men.

So naturally these men are ready to knock down the civilization they built with no help at all from the ladies.

What we built, we will tear down. Men are the key to women’s survival. You can mass murder all the babies you want. You’ll only be cutting off your nose to spite your entitled, narcissistic and callous face – in an effort to destroy those that gave you everything upon which you rely for female advancement over men. Ga head. Make my day. Gunslinger time.

Gunslinger time? That’s not creepy at all.

MGTOW is why you sometimes bolt upright in bed at night following a mind shaking nightmare.

Huh. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a real nightmare, though I did have one mildly scary one the other day about being abducted by aliens. Though I think that had less to do with MGTOW than it did with the fact that I’d watched Close Encounters right before going to bed.

We’re here, we couldn’t care less what you think, we know all your mind games and can’t wait for your feeble rebuttal. Come at me. I dare you.

Na, I’m good.

A fellow called MGTOW4Lyfe responded to Tim with this:

I hear you brother, preach. Enough bullshit, alot of men are tired of being unnoticed and being feed bullshit since birth. Nice guys finish last for the last time in this cruel manipulative world. In the end all men want is love that is the truth, we don’t want to be manipulated by women it sucks to be used. If us men could suppress our GOD DAMNED hormones, women wouldn’t even matter to us our relatives. We would act like them and just keep walking as if they were nothing, i want women to know how it feels to go unnoticed and unloved in your prime. Tired of females exploiting men left and right. Men have been trickled down to cuckholds by watching pornography and paying for sex one way or the other.

MGTOW4Lyfe goes on to propose that men exploit penis-hungry women by, well, dangling their penises in front of them — as a tease.

It’s time for a new revolution one where women are exploited for their desires or whatever, a game where we men hold the keys to their desires and fuck with them, and see how they like to pay for it.

#PENISPOWER

this may sound gay to men that are slaves to pussy, the ones that give all their resources for vagina.

I wouldn’t call it gay, dude, though I’m pretty sure you are wildly overestimating women’s interest in your own personal penis.

While MGTOW4Lyfe dangles his carrot (so to speak), merlyn.sheldon wields a stick in the form of a bunch of vague but still alarming threats.

It’s still incredible how the left doesn’t see what’s happening. When you paint all white men as evil, sexist, racist bigots, tell them their masculinity is toxic, tell them their raping 1 in 4 women, tell them they are terrible oppressors, tell them to accept a religion that enslaves women or else they are Islamophobic, tell them just how terrible they are, of course you’re going to get people that push back.

My NYmag piece was a response to the stabbing of a black man by a white supremacist. I don’t think the vile actions of James Jackson count as “pushing back.” I think what he did counts as a murder, as a hate crime, and (because the confessed murderer was hoping to make a political point with it) terrorism.

This is all your own doing. You made your bed, and now you’ll have to lay in it. You deserve everything that will happen to you for what you have done. This awful propaganda game isn’t going to end well for you just remember that.

I’m pretty sure that portraying people like you as “evil, sexist, racist bigots” isn’t propaganda. All someone needs to do is to read what you’ve just posted to see that an evil, sexist, racist bigot is exactly what you are.

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Vanir85
Vanir85
3 years ago

Heh. The venn diagram of nationalists\ misogynists really is a circle. Not that many years ago since they seemed to be distinct flavors of awful, but now… one big mess of horror and inhumanity.

And on that note…

https://angrywhitemen.org/2017/04/01/andrew-anglin-says-women-want-to-be-beaten-and-raped-in-juvenile-rant/

Anarchonist
3 years ago

From the OP:

don’t ever pretend you know my state of mind

Sorry to spam, but I can’t let this one go. So, a MGHOW, a member of a loosely knit group of angry, bitter men who claim to have intimate understanding of the minds of every woman on the planet is accusing David of “pretending to know his state of mind”? And then spends the rest of his post pretending to understand David’s motives and state of mind?

Look closely: this is what a hypocrite and a bully looks like. In his mind, he is allowed to make far-reaching conclusions about the intent and internal motivations of other people, but when he is the one under scrutiny, he will shout foul: He is too deep, too nuanced to be understood by mere analysis of his words and his deeds. He is a special fucking snowflake who is above judgement because his mind is a maze and he is layered like an ogre onion. Not like those easily-predictable sheeple, no, he is a multi-faceted main character in a sea of nigh-identical NPCs.Despite this, he is extremely bad at hiding his own motivations because he announces them loudly every opportunity he gets.

He will always claim his intentions are pure and that he should be judged by them alone. He will refuse to improve, because in his mind, there is nothing to improve. The problem lies with others who don’t appreciate his genius and his pure intentions. Yeah, I stay the heck away from guys like this.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ chiomara

That’s awful; my heart goes out to you.

Everyone here has pointed out that of course you did nothing to deserve this. The sole responsibility lies with those assholes. Women though are sort of socialised to blame themselves for other people’s bad behaviour towards them. So if you do find yourself having ‘well I was pretty friendly, maybe I gave them the wrong idea’ thoughts please please please remind yourself that common decency is not an invitation.

On a more practical note I mentioned your situation to someone who is in a much better position to understand what you’re going through for reasons. She can also introduce you to some people who may be able to offer some more practical help.

So, if you feel this might be useful to you, perhaps create a throwaway email address and ask David to forward it to me. I can then pass it on and you can take things from there.

Hang in there tiger (do you have tigers there? Puma then :-))

David
David
3 years ago

While MGTOW is as absurd a position as generalising all members of one race or religion or any other demographic grouping, I have met many women who do conform to the stereotype that MGTOWs believe describes all women.

As long as people insist on collectivising various groups into homogeneous blocs, there is as much onus upon women to kick into touch the selfish, spiteful, and misandrist minority of women who give credence to the stereotypes MGTOWs base their whole worldview upon as there is upon men in general to talk down and correct the perceptions of the misogynist minority of men.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Well, we have another winner in the NY Mag comments section.

The article’s author, one Dave Futrelle, is himself an equalist, so we can dispense with his arguments. Perhaps there is some connection between MGTOW and the Alt-Right, but this is not much of an observation. Alt-Right type ethnic nationalism is fairly normal in non-western countries, as is what westerners call “patriarchy”. Pointing out the connection is like pointing out a connection between clouds and rain. It’s only worth mentioning because western societies deviate so far from the human norm.

Feminism, at least the sort that attracts radicalized young women to Futrelle, is essentially a making and shortcoming of white society. In my experience, the most upset and shrill feminists are nearly always white females, and I would wager from a brief look at his site that these are the type who react to MGTOW in their outsized hysteria. They are motivated more by resentment and fear than any kind of principle, regardless of whether or not you think equality is worthwhile.

The MGTOW crowd, probably a racial reflection of the bitter feminist crowd, are not handling this the right way. Women are half the world, and it makes no sense to avoid them. Spreading that ideology to other men is socially dysgenic. They should instead aim to restore patriarchy and move their society forward [sic] with gender roles and enforcing hierarchy.

From what I’ve seen of white families, a simple tip would be to treat your daughters more strictly. Western society tends to coddle girls, and fail to admonish them in circumstances when you would admonish a boy. Most western women, even grown ones, believe that they are treated more harshly than men, based only on a few female-specific scenarios. Doing this alone would probably change society for the better. MGTOW could also look back on their own pre-equality history, or even observe a non-white population today for healthier models of male-female dynamics. If they did, they would not continue to believe that MGTOW is the solution.

Basically, Saudi Arabia should be our role model for gender relations. The correct way was established generations ago and modern society is nothing but an aberration.

In reply, one of the previous posters commented:

Who said women have a choice? Men are still taking care of women, even if it’s not acknowledged. Women’s independence is an illusion. Without men in our police, military and industry building and protecting the nation, women wouldn’t have anything. If and when men decide to pull the plug on society, women will do exactly what they’re told.

And the past is not gone – history repeats itself as they say. Liberal, Western society is a global and historical anomaly, and it will ultimately be shortlived, relatively speaking.

I am trying to figure out what makes these yahoos think that they have a moral right to reimpose male supremacy, or that women will not fight tooth and nail to prevent it … maybe I’m just getting old, but I am beyond bumfuzzled.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Feminism, at least the sort that attracts radicalized young women to Futrelle, is essentially a making and shortcoming of white society. In my experience, the most upset and shrill feminists are nearly always white females

Dear Misogynists,

Just because you only see “foreign” or “Eastern” women as fetish objects and don’t listen to what they say or read they write, doesn’t mean they don’t have anything to say. There are plenty of feminist women outside of English speaking western nations. Stop trying to splain global feminism to the rest of us. You have no damn idea what you’re talking about.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

I wish their registration was not broken.

The response is mostly akin to dogs pissing on fences. Quoting of things is rare. Referencing the content of the article is rare. Lots of name calling.

Equivalence trolls are an annoying one.
RyanWei
First an equivalence drawn between feminists and miggies with literally no ability to check his examples.

Then they relabel David an “equalist” as they assert David is mistaken about reality and his examples (with no quotes of any kind of course).

Then they try to blur the lines between David’s examples by shoving “radicalized young women” in there. They dismiss the negative expressions of women while pretending that fear is not a thing attached to experiences. “cause fear” applies to all humans, including Ryan.

Then they go on to point at women and feminists while describing the behavior David is talking about. They hang “racial” on it too just to make sure they move all the feelings to the other group. This way the word Patriarchy does not feel so bad when they use like it’s a good thing. Isn’t it interesting what you can do when you pretend you can just swap objects and feelings around? I think the word opinion should become associated with negative feelings. Ryan loves to talk about people without a reference to reality to justify it. That’s basically name calling. It’s only works because of how group-bias affects language use.

The last paragraph is a suggestion that society should control girls more. It does this while pretending that girls and boys are admonished in the same ways and once again dismissing the feelings of women without the things the feelings are attached to.

I do think that as a community we use MGTOW/MRA/Incel and other things as shorthand for the bad behaviors too often. This person may not be an MGTOW but morally they fit right in when it comes to behavior.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

MarcNV is a special kind of annoying.

An insult in the first part with an anti-left flavor. No content other than feeling.

Second they act like they they can pretend socially coming to someone’s aid is bad with another insult instead of the assumed characteristics. This followed by calling David a Cuck while mentioning the dictionary (and not mentioning any relevant cuck-like characteristics which is a dictionary related thing to do).

Then they “I’m not an MRA” and “I’m not a MGTOW” while saying they pointed out something logically when all they actually did was attach feelings to things (OK maybe I’m not being fair about MRA/MGTOW-insult). They did do logic but it was only by manipulation of social symbols. Attachments to reality were once again not in evidence.

Nothing but shit talking and pretending that it’s not just empty group-based pissing on fences.

Heydumbdumb
Heydumbdumb
3 years ago

What’s saddest to me is men are so unsophisticated and have so little game they fear powerful independent women rather than admire them. It’s just insecure men who can’t find a woman trying to assert their dominance. It’s the same as ‘little man’ syndrome.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
3 years ago

@Chiomara

People who prey on waitresses and other service staff are the fucking worst. I’m sorry this asshole decided to make you uncomfortable and scared.

Patriarchy exists over here too, but if you should ever want to move to Sweden I can offer a spare bedroom with a TV, balcony, and occasionally cats.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Chiomara
Hugs. I hope you have the support you need.

JoeB
JoeB
3 years ago

@GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina

I don’t know about names but a book that was being written on Saint-Domingue when the Haitian revolution broke out had tables to show what portion african the child of mixed race parents would be. They went out to 1/128th

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Chio
My email is my nym (before the colon) at gmx.us; feel free to message me there to connect to Alan, or if you just need someone to talk to.

NOBODY
NOBODY
3 years ago

@Dalillama

This is one of those situations where one needs to be bluntly realistic about their ability to help someone in need.

If one has trouble helping themselves, better to give a reference to someone else with a proven track record.

I’ve not always seen eye to eye with Alan, but, in this instance, he has the more stable situation and resources.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

@Chio

Nothing I can say that hasn’t been said better by the others already.

You have all of my hugs and love and admittedly-limited support, and please stay safe.

And I’ll join the others in that if you ever need someone to talk to, we’re here for ya.

Dormousing_it (formerly RoscoeTCat)
Dormousing_it (formerly RoscoeTCat)
3 years ago

@Chiomara: No, you did nothing wrong. Perhaps, if you tell your fiance what happened, he can wait for you after your shift? If he’s able to do that, I mean.

Sadly, some of these jerks will only defer to other males, and see every woman as the property of a man. As backward as that is, it’s still true in some cases.

I don’t think this sort of thing happens all that often in the US, anymore, but I could be wrong. I’m not an urban-dwelling person.

walej
walej
3 years ago

There are also beaucoup de YouTube responses to David’s piece.

Space Oddity
Space Oddity
3 years ago

@Boo:

Much obliged.

@BoinkBoinkBoinkBoinkBoink:

I’ve totally been using both penises and swords wrong, then. This explains much about my love life.

Look, it’s He-Man. He raises the “sword” and suddenly he’s a rippling Tom of Finland-type guy who’s hitting other rippling Tom of Finland-types. Usually not with the sword, but when he does, it doesn’t result in blood or anything.

“It’s subtext, Steven!”

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Dormousing_It
Unfortunately not a viable option. The said fiance is not loca.l

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

While MGTOW is as absurd a position as generalising all members of one race or religion or any other demographic grouping, I have met many women who do conform to the stereotype that MGTOWs believe describes all women.

You know many women who have zombifying vagina goo and who sperm jack for fun and profit? Wow. Your neighborhood is so wacky it would put the town from Gilmore Girls to shame! Whereabouts do you live if you don’t mind me asking?

As long as people insist on collectivising various groups into homogeneous blocs, there is as much onus upon women to kick into touch the selfish, spiteful, and misandrist minority of women who give credence to the stereotypes MGTOWs base their whole worldview upon as there is upon men in general to talk down and correct the perceptions of the misogynist minority of men.

I don’t know what “kick into touch” actually means but given the context it’s in, I’m guessing we have a false equivalency troll on our hands. It’s actually not the same thing because for one thing, actual man-hating is far more more rare than misogyny. For another thing, men are the dominant gender. When men engage in misogyny, it perpetuates the oppression of women as a gender. When a woman hates a man, it doesn’t have much of an impact beyond whatever harm done to the individual man who is the target of the hatred. It’s not nice or particularly to hate men but it doesn’t have the power to harm them as an entire gender.

Of course, it’s pretty difficult to buy the neutral schtick you’re trying to do here. Only MRAs and MGTOW and the like use “misandrist” unironically. Nice try. No sale.

ETA: I’m also not wild about the implication that women have to be sweet to men all the time or else we have misogyny and abuse coming to us. Fuck that.

Kettle
Kettle
3 years ago

If women hated men the way men hated women, there would have been at least one mass-shooting by a woman in the name of feminism by now. MiGTOWs better pray women never “push back” violently against the rape and abuse perpetrated against them by men.

Dormousing_it (formerly RoscoeTCat)
Dormousing_it (formerly RoscoeTCat)
3 years ago

@Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

I was afraid that was the case 🙁

Some Guy
Some Guy
3 years ago

…usury?
Seriously?
You’re going to complain about interest on loans? a.k.a. the only reason anyone bothers to loan anyone else money in the first place?
I’m not sure whether that’s entitlement or antisemitism. Probably both.
(I mean the rest of the ranting is terrible, yeah, but this stuck out to me as a new and exciting kind of stupid)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ some guy

You’re going to complain about interest on loans?

“Wild Women of Wonga”?

Schnookums Von Fancypants, GloboThermoNuclearHomo
Schnookums Von Fancypants, GloboThermoNuclearHomo
3 years ago

@David (Not our gracious host)

Okay, I’d like to say this only once, so please pay attention and pass this along: yes, it’s possible that women can do awful things, and those awful things can be done to men. Since logic is allegedly so prized in this movement, let me show how this works:

1. All people are capable of doing awful things.

2. All women are people (THIS IS IMPORTANT)

3. Therefore women are capable of doing awful things.

See, the Miggytoe method is to completely ignore 1+2 and act like 3 is the only part that matters. Women are awful because they’re women, not because they’re people. And that line of thought can kindly go fuck itself.

As for generalizing groups, welllllll…. see, if you say, join the Ku Klux Klan but only because you look rather dashing in those fetching white robes and hoods, you’re still a fucking klansmen. If you join the cesspool that is MTGOW you’re throwing your lot in with a bunch of women hating wankers, so it really doesn’t matter what your own personal reasons are.

Bina
3 years ago

@Chiomara:

I’m unfashionably late here, as usual, but I’m nthing what everyone else says. You did not deserve ANY of that. Being nice to a person isn’t a crime, but stalking and intimidating a person who’s nice to you should be. And here in Canada, it is…but the laws against such things are sporadically enforced, at best. And sometimes it’s the police themselves doing it, ugh. And sometimes the judges aid and abet the criminals by letting them off the hook even when the case against them is solid, which is also illegal, but commonplace and rarely censured. I don’t know about were everyone else lives, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s not too different there. Sexism is a global problem, alas, and the so-called first world has this problem as much as anyplace else. Your best bet is to learn some form of physical self-defence and/or carry an object on you at all times that’s small, compact, and can serve as a defensive weapon in a pinch. I don’t know what’s available where you live, but look around; there’s bound to be something. Even if it’s only a table fork or a pocket-knife. With any luck, you’ll never need to use it — but if you do, use it with all your might. (I learned Wen-Do, and carry a box-cutter wherever I go. So far, I’ve been lucky enough not to need to use either one, but they’re there, and knowing I have them at my disposal gives me a confidence that seems to repel baddies better than pepper spray.)

@The Real Cie:

If some jackwagon waggled his willy at me, I would do what my late maternal grandmother did to a fellow who stuck his member through a knothole in the side of the girls’ outhouse.
I would whack it with a ruler.
This story is not hyperbole.
My grandmother was a sparkplug.

Your grandmother is somebody after my own heart. All the same, I’m glad that indoor plumbing is the norm these days.

And door locks. Goddess bless the door lock.

dr. ej
dr. ej
3 years ago

@WWTH

I’m also not wild about the implication that women have to be sweet to men all the time or else we have misogyny and abuse coming to us. Fuck that.

There was an interesting opinion piece in the Guardian about this very thing. She ties it to the Handmaid’s Tale and how the women who became the wives sided with the men in power, but still got screwed over by the system those men created. They threw other women under the bus and ended shooting themselves in the foot at the same time. The author makes the point that we need to stick together because playing nice doesn’t work. At best, it maintains the status quo and accomplishes nothing. At worst, we find ourselves in a dystopian novel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/31/the-feminists-should-be-nice-to-men-trope-is-back-so-is-the-handmaids-tale

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Thanks, Dr EJ! It was a good editorial and I’m proud of myself for closing the tab before I could start reading the sure to be fuckery filled comments.

dr. ej
dr. ej
3 years ago

@WWTH

I’m proud of myself for closing the tab before I could start reading the sure to be fuckery filled comments.

Good choice. I read about five of the comments on that article and there were two mentions of Saudi Arabia. Because, of course there were.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu4pgxfFRo1qe6dql.gif

brian
brian
3 years ago

I’ve got to come back to this:
“All of the rights and privileges today’s women hold over men’s heads in exchange for the those two circles and a triangle were bought and paid for through the trafficking, exploitation, usury and disposal of men.”

I was very confused by “two circles and a triangle.” On page 1 of the comments Pie said “Boobs and pussy, obvs.” Which was my first thought as well… but then the sentence just makes no sense?
Women hold rights and privileges over men’s heads to get “boobs and pussy” for themselves? And they acquired the rights and privileges (that they’re now using to get boobs and pussy, from men) by trafficking… men? (as well as exploiting men… loaning money to men? and… disposing of men?)

I was hoping that decoding “two circles and a triangle” would make it make sense… but I guess it’s just a terrible sentence in grammar as well as sentiment…?

Anarchonist
3 years ago

@David (the one whose hands are presumably not bears)

While MGTOW is as absurd a position as generalising all members of one race or religion or any other demographic grouping

Well said. Now…

I have met many women who do conform to the stereotype that MGTOWs believe describes all women.

…Oh. You weren’t done?

Dammit, and you were doing really well.

*Sigh*

Cool story, bro.

As long as people insist on collectivising various groups into homogeneous blocs, there is as much onus upon women to kick into touch the selfish, spiteful, and misandrist minority of women who give credence to the stereotypes MGTOWs base their whole worldview upon as there is upon men in general to talk down and correct the perceptions of the misogynist minority of men.

No. No, there really isn’t. Because misogyny is an actual problem that hurts and kills countless women a day. It is a social force based on men being the dominant group and using that dominance to subjugate women. As WWTH said earlier, the worst “misandry” can do is cause harm to the individual man the “misandrist” is angry at. She has no power in the system, nor can she hope to rise to a position where she can use her “misandry” to great effect, nor would the actions of an individual matter much anyway because our culture doesn’t teach us to hate and degrade men as it does women.

MGTOW is nothing more than an open celebration of the lesson our patriarchal society has been teaching us for centuries: women, as a group, are inferior to men. Misogynistic men can easily find other men in powerful positions who view women the same way (and can use their power to remind women of “their place”), whereas a “misandrist” woman cannot hope to find strong emphasizing for her position, because our patriarchal culture has taught everyone, women included, to view men as individuals, to judge them based on their words and deeds alone, not for any supposed qualities of the group. Which is good, but only half the issue: Our culture has not similarly taught everyone, men included, to view women as individuals. No, women have always been expected to take responsibility of other women as well, while the onus on men to challenge other men on their sexism is still a relatively rare phenomenon.

You know what I think this is like? This is like the episode of the Justice League cartoon where the actions of an utterly implausible, man-hating straw female character who wanted to literally genocide* all men was explicitly blamed on the philosophy of Themyscira, the island of Wonder Woman and her amazon sisters. Their crime? Not allowing men on their island. Yes, really, the male writers actually thought that was a reasonable position to take. “If you won’t allow us to freely come into your midst, probably to harass and belittle you while you desperately try to live your life free of harassment and belittling, we will accuse you of man-hating and probably blame the actions of a genocidal murderer on you.”

There is a long history that men have with equating women wanting their own space to violence. Because we men are so privileged that we can genuinely believe not being allowed somewhere is as bad as being raped and murdered. We will cry “not all men!” and put the onus on women to read minds and know which men are “the bad ones”, and blame them when they aren’t able to do that. We will blow any criticism of the typical traits common to all men (due to our socialization) out of proportion to make it seem like the women who wish men would stop doing a thing that causes them distress to be an act of “misandry”.

So you’ll excuse me if I doubt the validity and honesty of your personal anecdote. It’s more than likely you are downplaying your own sexism** and overstating the reaction to your sexism.

*shut up it’s a verb now

**This is not an attack on you personally: All men, including me, are guilty of some level of subconscious sexism because we have grown up in a sexist culture. It is not entirely our fault, but it is our responsibility to deal with it. The trick is to recognize and actively question and combat the inherent sexism with which we have been indoctrinated.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 years ago

Hello.

> Chiomara
Arf, that is indeed horrible. Are there no means to signal them to their hierarchy ? Or is the hierarchy as corrupt as them ? Are there no woman local or national associations where you could get help and support ? Maybe preparing some mace in case of ?

> On topic
So, we have a Tim, just Tim, the Enchanter ; and Merlyn, the Enchanter too. No wonder why they often call themselves wizards too, eh ?
And Man-ual ? Seriously ? I know it is a pun but i wonder if you really have worked for any manual labor one day (except the one where you use your hands to write rants on internet) in your damn life. And even if you have, just looking at you own labor job occulting all the jobs that gravitate around it or are linked to it upstream and downstream is pretty egoïst (conceited ?).
http://img.humanite.fr/sites/default/files/images/guerrefemme.jpg
Women probably simulating manual labor.

Have a nice day.

Dr Space Junk
Dr Space Junk
3 years ago

I sort of like fem-ual labour!

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

@WWTH

What is a complaint dummy? I’m picturing MGTOW yelling complaints at a female blow up doll or mannequin.

The first question!

In the UK a “dummy” is a rubber thing for babies to suck on when they are not being fed – a “pacifier” in North America, perhaps? (I believe it’s a bit frowned on nowadays).

So when I read “This is not a complaint dummy” I imagined he’s saying “This is not a nipple substitute designed to prevent me going “Waaah!”: I’ll go “Waaah!” all I like.”

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

@ Chiomara

I’m late to this – horrible stuff, and chilling too.

Nope you do not deserve it. You did NOT invite it: there is NO invitation which permits people to behave creepily and stalkerishly.
You behaved like a professional person in a job where you have to deal with the public and see that they have a pleasant experience.

I’m glad your sister is there and keeping an eye out. Is there anyone else – older waitresses, perhaps – you could talk to?

Ideally the management should be supportive – I realise that often isn’t the case.

All the best to you and internet hugs, and stay safe.

Chad Thundercock
Chad Thundercock
3 years ago

the overwhelming majority of men in their teens and early 20s live in a parched sexual desert, scorned by women, who have eyes only for the studly and confident jocks that have become known, at least among the bitter young misogynists of the internet, as “Chads,” short for “Chad Thundercock.”

Dear David,

Please do not associate me with these loser.

Susan
Susan
3 years ago

Also, can we please all agree that “to virtue signal” is both a stupid concept and a horrible abuse of the English language? It would be “to signal virtue” if it were even a thing, which it is not.

LindsayIrene
3 years ago

Chad, what are you doing wasting your time here? Don’t you have some betas to cuck?

Paradoxical Intention: Leader of the Deathclaw Damsels

Susan | April 3, 2017 at 1:42 pm
Also, can we please all agree that “to virtue signal” is both a stupid concept and a horrible abuse of the English language? It would be “to signal virtue” if it were even a thing, which it is not.

And, as HBomberguy mentioned: It’s really paradoxical.

Pointing out virtue signalling is, in itself, virtue signaling. You are signalling that you are more virtuous because you don’t virtue signal, but you’re virtual signaling by saying you don’t virtue signal.

And thus the thick, veiny ouroboros of “lojik” rolls on and on.

Handsome :Punkle Stan: Jack

Oh my, is Chad Thundercock gonna be a character account or a sex-shaming troll. I hope for the former because I love character accounts.

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

My favorite description of ‘virtue signalling’ – a way for shitty people to criticize non-shitty people for displaying empathy.

Kettle – good point about the gender imbalance in violence. In a FB discussion on the subject, I pointed out that if most men murdered in the United States were murdered by women, many men would consider that a problem worth addressing.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
3 years ago

In the interest of exploring the thoughts of humanity’s more pathetic exemplars, I think it’s worth exploring this notion that I’ve seen far too often (after all, it’s a variant of this blog’s own name):

What we built, we will tear down. Men are the key to women’s survival.

Setting aside the grotesque blackmail-y delivery for the moment, I’m rather baffled by this constantly pointing to “what we built” as some kind of signal of man’s superiority over women. Sheer physical constructs, while impressive, represent merely a fraction of what constitutes the human endeavour. It’s like the tip of an iceberg: there’s a ton more just beneath the surface if you have the urge to look.

If there’s one show that I can recommend Mammotheers, it’s Worst Jobs In History, hosted by Sir Tony Robinson (better known as Baldrick from Blackadder). The show is pretty much as advertised, detailing the worst jobs throughout British history from pre-Roman times through to about the Edwardian era, and it goes without saying that a lot of those awful jobs got done by women and children. His demonstration of how women were treated in Tudor England was rather shocking, complete with Scold’s Bridles and Ducking Stools. But even some of the things people take for granted were crafted with rather harmful effects.

Consider the Matchgirl’s strike of 1888. Women were getting what was called “phossy jaw” after the white phosphorus they worked with was causing their teeth to fall out (it didn’t help they ate lunch where they worked with the substance). They weren’t building cathedrals or pantheons, they were making matchsticks. Same with the fuller who had to press wool in urine buckets for noblemen’s tunics or the tanner that had to scrape hides clean for leather.

I get that these guys think that women were just idling in the home all day until the suffragettes came along, but let’s not pretend history was just famous buildings, dates and documents. It was making matchsticks, dying wool and shoveling sewage.

AsAboveSoBelow, Male Gaze Harvester
AsAboveSoBelow, Male Gaze Harvester
3 years ago

We don’t want you, don’t need you, and could care less what you think!

http://stephen.planetbarr.com.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/images/wc2.png

So many word crimes.

evergreen
3 years ago

All of the world’s cities, neighborhoods and roads were built by man-ual labor, not fem-ual labor.

um excuse me but god sent man-na from heaven, not woman-na

so therefore we should eat all the men

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ evergreen

Dr. Kurtz: This is a war! A war between men and women. Anything short of cannibalism is just beating around the bush.

~ ‘Cannibal Women in the Avacado Jungle of Death’

Makroth - wild west firecracker window-smashing soap-averse unionized cowboy Jacobin from Hell
Makroth - wild west firecracker window-smashing soap-averse unionized cowboy Jacobin from Hell
3 years ago

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