We’ve been treated, over the years, to endless misogynist manifestos declaring that nerdy hobbies like comic books and video games should be kept free from pesky females, for all sorts of ridiculous reasons that usually come back to some allegedly innate characteristics of males and females that show that only men can appreciate said hobbies and that all of the women who claim to like them are only pretending, because really what they want is endless attention from nerdy dudes.
I recently ran across one of these manifestos in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit. While it was full of the same tired old BIOTRUTHS as most “male space” manifestos — only dudes “are wired to be adept at tasks with inanimate objects,” only dudes have the necessary “diligence” to be true fans — this manifesto offered another powerful(ly dumb) anti-nerd-girl argument I don’t think I’ve encountered before: Nerd girls should be kept out of male hobbies because they’re a bunch of icky uggoes, “sub-4 at best.”
Let’s let the somewhat ironically named NuclearTruthBomb explain this particular “truth.”
The simple fact of the matter is that most women are not, and never will be, into the activities of low-status, but intelligent males. Yes, a few exist. My sister loves drawing, animation, and even video games. But she’s also on the upper end of the autism spectrum, and pretty unattractive.
Dude, really? She’s your SISTER.
Women have status simply by existing. There is only a very small number of girls who are so hideous, no man will show interest in them.
Empathy, not a big thing amongst MGTOWs.
Being a nerd if often considered a sign of low status. Trust me, none of us got laid for being on the chess team. Because women are so concerned about appearences, they will refuse to associate with nerds by default.
So that means, natch, that the only “females” who want to have anything to do with male nerds will be the ugly uggoes.
Male nerds tend to range from perfectly average to the bottom of the barrel. Female nerds however, are sub-4 at best, genetically cursed at worst. They were rejected by the popular girls a long time ago, and will wear a shirt that screams YAOI FAN for a modicum of attention.
These discrepancies cause female geeks to be not only low in number, but of poor quality in general.
And now a cameo appearance by Chad Thundercock, or at least his brothers Brad, Joe, and Darren Thundercock, as well as their cousin Bill BigDick and his friend Tyrone.
Ironically, while women will forever flock to the sports stadium of Brads and Joes, nerds will spell the future for the human race. The guy who gets shoved in the mud by Bill BigDick this decade will be inventing the technology of the next one. The quirky glasses wearing freak will create that game Darren plays after Daisy gives him a rimjob. And all those countless code monkeys will be responsible for the social media websites she meets Tyrone on.
To do list:
- Shove nerd in mud
- Rimjob w/ Daisy
- Vidya Games
Only when these nerdy dudes get super rich will the hotties have any interest in them.
Once she realizes that these men are making bank, she’ll try to swing branches. And many simpanzees will takeher anyways. Us on the other hand, can enjoy our own specific tastes without worrying “Buh-buh-buh, what would Sally think of this!?”
MGTOWs have turned “stewing in your own bitterness about women possibly giving other dudes rimjobs” into America’s fastest-growing hobby. This is a male space no one should want to invade.
@Paradoxical Intention
Also, I missed the next part.
@Humbug
Since I was the one who started the discussion on Suicide Squad, I feel like I should address this.
First off, I’m a man. A very heterosexual man who does enjoy looking at tiddies as much as the next person who’s into tiddies. Now that we’ve gotten that bit of TMI out of the way, what the hell is wrong with you, dude? Are you seriously arguing that Suicide Squad is on par with the misogynistic rhetoric these guys use when discussing sexbots?
There’s a lot to unpack regarding the sexism in the movie, that’s true. Harley was pretty explicitly made to be fanservice and little else, the makers falling back on their “a cool girl would let us objectify and sexualize her; You are a cool girl, right?” rhetoric and claiming that a fictional character whom they purposely wrote in a certain way was responsible for the decisions they made for her. That’s what a weaselly little coward Ayer is, not even owning up to his actions. Also, the Enchantress turns people into her slaves by kissing them. Why? What purpose does that serve? The only way she would have this ability work that way is if her male writers, that’s right, wrote her that way. Harley’s outfit is booty shorts and a tight t-shirt (what the hell do those have to do with her harlequin theme anyway?), wouldn’t she wear something more practical when going into battle? Oh, wait, don’t tell me, she “chose” to wear that, you know, being a fictional character written by straight men to be their sexual fantasy. What solid argumentation.
So yes, I could make an entire post just discussing the overt sexism and straight-up misogyny surrounding the movie. That said, I never brought up any of this in my post. Not even once. I criticized the fact that Harley’s abusive relationship with the Joker was portrayed as romantic. That’s it. If you think that is an “attack on male sexuality” kindly fuck off with your abusive views on sex and relationships and never go near another living being again. Or, if you took offense to what SFHC said about Jared Leto’s demeanor (sending his sperm and shit to female coworkers without their permission), then, again, why is your idea of “male sexuality” so fucking disgusting*?
As bad as Suicide Squad is (and it’s baaaaad, even if you ignore all the sexism), it is not porn. It was shown in theaters. It is rated PG-13. It has mild sexual themes, but it’s first and foremost an action flick. Unless your standards for porn are very low, you would never consider the movie to have anything to do with “male sexuality”. Unless you are like a preteen boy who laughs at the extremely juvenile humor in Suicide Squad and drools while playing Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball or…
…oh.
Hell, I’m sure there already exists porn parodies of Suicide Squad (Suing (and doing) the Squad? Do Me Like Squats? Suey… Sidefuck? Come on, I’m terrible at coming up with porn parody titles). Go watch them instead of attempting to claim a non-porn movie as porn. There’s very little to jack off to. I swear, I watched the whole damn thing. Also, unless you’re just a big ol’ fake geek boy, you’ll be too distracted to scream incoherently at the screen because the makers are butchering our beloved DC characters to even consider moving your hands around in your pants.
Speaking of, Suicide Squad I sort of, kind of understand, maybe, but what the hell has the rest of the DC cinematic universe to do with “male sexuality”, you glowy little hummus? Man of Steel gets very little in the way of nekkid Lois Lane, and Batman v Superman features… Wonder Woman, I guess? And the one scene with Lois Lane in the bathtub? Are those what this is about? I seriously don’t get you.
I mean, obviously you’re just making this up as you go along, desperate to stay contrary for the sake of staying contrary, but I’d like to have an actual conversation, thank you. You know, with actual exchanging of ideas and thoughts, a discussion beyond some grade-school level of devil’s advocacy that you provide with your unlightening views. If the only thing you bring to a conversation about sexism is “well, I have a right to look at tiddies!” then you don’t understand anything about the level of discourse that we are having, and only reveal how ignorant and immature you are to jump in with less than 101-level understanding of the issue.
So don’t you try to pretentiously tsk me. Your kinks are not above criticism. You don’t have a right to not have your favorite softcore porn criticized. That’s not how free speech works, you sour piece of egg white.
*Whatever the case here, you have already in this thread demonstrated a pretty fucked up idea of male sexuality. You brought up a video game where you play as a rapist as an example of male sexuality, for god’s sake! Yet you scold feminists for saying that society’s view of male sexuality might be, you know, pretty fucked up? Nothing of this sounds to you like feminism might actually have a point?
@Anarchonist
No one’s kinks are above questions, criticism, long thought, and analysis. Identifying and examining potential relationships between kinks and wider society is worlds away from shaming someone for the way they do sex.
It’s the same with media, in basically the same words.
You may actually want a conversation with him, Anarchonist, but I don’t. I’m just fine with noting that he clearly doesn’t desire a conversation with us, and laughing at his….himness.
I seem to recall a woman GameSpot reviewer who received threats and harassment from GGs for giving GTA 5 a 9/10 expressly because of its misogynistic and violent treatment of women, which for her damaged her enjoyment and approval of the game in some ways. I don’t rightly know if she’s a feminist, but that’s a small feminist critique of that game.
We analyze everything. Naturally, the most heinous media receives the most attention…but any game a feminist has played, a feminist critique of exists. Lots of us write it online, but some of us only give it to those who ask for our opinion. So…stop lying if you want people to take you seriously, Humbug.
Normally, I’d just go in order, but since this post has some lol-worthy moments, I’mma skip the queue a bit.
1. You’re still playing a game where you’re encouraged to rape people, regardless of motive or eventual punishment.
2. You still get to see those rapes happen and it’s sexualized.
3. I said that these kinds of games are actually okay because it’s fiction. However, that doesn’t mean that people won’t (or shouldn’t) have a problem with it.
Holy shit. Really? Feminists don’t complain about violence in GTA?
Anita Sarkeesian did a whole bit about violence against women in games.
A group of sex workers made a petition asking Target Australia to stop carrying it because it doesn’t have a punishment, and thus encourages, violence against sex workers, and GG promptly had a fucking fit about it.
That’s usually because we accept murder as bad universally, but we still think that spousal abuse (and rape) are justifiable in most cases.
Granted, everyone can justify certain circumstances when it comes to murder, but if you were to ask people “Is murder bad?” the answer would usually be “yeah”.
Hell, people defended War Machine for putting Christy Mack in the hospital because she’s a porn star. (Luckily, he’s still facing life in prison for it.)
Well, there’s The National D.Va Association in Korea that’s dedicated to fighting against sexism in games, rallying around the symbol of D.Va from Overwatch, but I suppose if you don’t see it, it doesn’t exist, right?
I mean, there’s also feminists in those countries as well, but hey, don’t let me get in the way of your submissive, quiet Asian girl fantasies.
First, rape is not the same as “risque”. Let’s get the obvious out of the way. Rape transcends “risque” into “nope” territory for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
Second, I’m pretty sure that there’s been a general distaste for rape and shit like that in shojo/yaoi fandoms for a hell of a long time. I should know, I’ve been in those fandoms for well over a decade now.
If you have an example of shojo/yaoi that has rape or anything similar in it that wasn’t criticized for it, you’re more than welcome to produce it.
The only one I can think of that has “risque” elements that’s making the rounds is the manhwa Killing Stalking, but plenty of people (myself included) have critiqued that one and refuse to watch it because it’s about a serial killer beating and raping his (male) victim.
Doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t exist, because bad things happen in fiction all the time as it should, but it still wasn’t above reproach for it.
Source?
“It’s a slippery slope! First the feminists say that rape is bad and they critique our media, and then the GOVERNMENT COMES FOR OUR GAMES!!!!!”
Yeah. No one has any right to dictate what companies put out besides companies. But we do have the right to criticize and critique it.
Companies are more than welcome to continue to put things out that are gross. I’ve never said otherwise.
What I am defending is the right of people to criticize companies for doing so. Jackie brought up Hatred a while ago, which is a good example of this.
Hatred was a game that advertised itself as being “the game that SJWs don’t want you to play!” and it got off on making itself as “offensive” as possible.
But, at the end of the day, it was a boring little game with nothing to really offer besides Edge Cred. And yet, it still exists. Steam still sells it. People still like it.
Sure, some people said it shouldn’t be made, but there were games before it that attempted the same thing (but at least Harvester and Postal were funny and didn’t take themselves too seriously).
What happened to the “vote with your dollars!” mentality?
Because boycotts and protests ARE how people vote with their dollars. People say “Hey, I’m not going to support this by buying it because I think it’s wrong.”
That’s a fundamental right that even you have. You have the right to not buy something if you don’t like it.
Also, speaking of hypocrisy: remember when “real gamers” boycotted Depression Quest solely because Zoe Quinn made it and it wasn’t a “real game” but their porn-stuffed visual novels were worth throwing a public tantrum over?
Is it just me, or is Hurrdurr getting creepier with every new comment ?
Like, that moment when a troll explains the story of RapeLay – that’s the moment where I start wondering what exactly went wrong with my life.
@Anarchonist
‘Suicide Girls’ (Harley, Katana, and Waller, why not) popped into my head, but then I remembered that’s already the name of an actual existing thing…
@Sinkable:
The trainwreck that clearly is the troll’s life has no intersection with yours. This isn’t our lives being ruined, or an indication of our damage.
This is like…watching something you can’t stop. Maybe that you’re not sure you wanna stop.
I don’t think they think they’re lying. I’m pretty sure they just don’t care about games or movies or comic books, just that people are “taking away” their “socially acceptable” softcore porn. Nothing they mentioned about games is beyond feminists censorship of boobies and a cursory toss of violent video games. They care only for whatever they can masturbate to.
Not only explaining it, but using that explanation to justify why it’s a Good Game and it should be allowed to exist besides Straight Male Boners apparently want it.
Like, I’m okay with (private, safe, consensual) rape fantasies, but even that made me cringe.
@Handsome
I don’t think it makes a great deal of difference to me if someone’s lying because they’re concealing information, someone’s lying because they’re omitting relevant information, or someone’s lying because they’ve more or less put themselves in a position of not knowing said relevant information.
Functionally, it’s the same thing. It’d be different if we were dealing with, say, cutting edge research or stuff that changes based on perspective or personal experience…but at a minimum in the quote I outlined, there is no excuse for not knowing that information.
@Humbug
Reconsider the game you’re defending, the fact that the mc is seeking revenge for a women getting him arrested for committing sexual assault & the fact that even in this scenario turns out the women had absolutely no agency or ability to make their own choices. In other words the mc in your story is justified in thinking he can get away with it because the women had to be controlled by other people against their own will to act against him, otherwise no one would blink an eye. Are you really not seeing the problem here?
And kcuf ti consider this virtue signalling, but I am directly descended from some of those places you mentioned, and kind of have relatives there, so that may give me some authority to say those places have their own problems of I don’t know; unrestricted capitalism causing the air to be unclean and toxic, people working themselves to death for scraps, being told by society to have kids or only one child when the systems in place pretty much ensure that the one child policy means that girls are worth less and the other policy a product of xenophobia, those countries being incredibly homogenous and barely any minorities, feminists being arrested for speaking out against authoritarian governments, lgbt people are heavily marginalized, etc. Then again I’m just a concerned Chinese Vietnamese American, what do I know of places where I have family?
@PI
This reminds me of then MGS V game out and Kojima gave a sleazy excuse for sexing Quiet to absurd levels. Taro Yoko had the good idea to admit he likes pretty girls instead of trying to squirm his way out of looking like a creep.
@IgnoreSandra
I absolutely agree with you. It was an attempt to address Humbug’s bull-headed non sequiturs, such as “but I like looking at tiddies!” and “but… but… male sexuality!”, as if they were some kind of get-out-of-criticism-free cards. All kinks are absolutely worth exploring with a critical eye. After all, they tell us a lot about what we have learned to find arousing, so wouldn’t we want to know why we feel that way?
When did I say I wanted to have a conversation with him? 😉
@Anarchonist
Yeah, and I was trying to go from that to a stirring defense of criticism, but I decided not to say the same thing twice in a few sentences. It usually ends in a ton of fucking questions and very few answers.
But perhaps that’s okay.
And yeah, this reminds me of MGSV too. Holy shit that game is fucked up with its treatment of Quiet, and Kojima can just fuck off with that bullshit fucking excuse. Nobody who thinks about it for longer than four seconds buys it.
@IgnoreSandra
Hey, never said it was an excuse for them to lie, I’m just pointing out just how very little they care beyond their boner.
D-d-d-DOUBLE POST.
I absolutely love MGS V.
Or I would if not for Quiet.
@IgnoreSandra
Like a shooting star of stupid, flying across the endless night.
It’s almost beautiful in its own way. But then it starts spraying shit all over everything it passes like some fucking pigeon.
@Paradoxy
Given the rocket-jump those guys make between that, and “women secretly want to be raped”, it’s real hard not to cringe.
CW for TMI:
I love the assfax biotroofs that bonertrolls always try to use to defend their “women hate sex!” ideas. For all the problems my last relationship had, sexual satisfaction for the both of us was not one of them.
Opposable Thumbs,
I did say I wasn’t trying to blame the collective lack of sex drive in Japan on depictions of sexuality in the media.
I’m just saying that it’s a little ridiculous to call Americans or westerners or whatever sex negative prudes compared to Japanese people when the lack of fucking in Japan has gotten to the point where the government has stepped in to try and people to do it. Clearly rape porn and sexualized drawings of underaged girls are not the magic ticket to healthy male libidos.
According to Huffington Post, around 100 gay men have been detained in Chechnya, three of which have been killed by authorities.
As an ugly nerd girl… shit like this is why I wasn’t open about my nerdiness in high school or otherwise for a very long time. Despite loving star wars, comics, video games, writing, role playing, all this fun stuff… I know how ugly girls are treated and well, I learned it first hand and kinda got tired of the black eyes.
Some male nerds that do this gatekeeper and Must Be This Hot to Enter shit are more violent than their hated Chads will ever be.
@Jack
I don’t even know what to say.
I mean, yeah, I do, but the comments policy.
I hate Kadyrov so much.
Holy shit, that’s really fucked up.
“There’s no gay people here. They don’t exist here. Their families would have sent them away.”
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
@Jack
These are the sort of people Trump wants everyone to agree with, people who want lgbt groups erased from their countries.
“No gay people in Chechnya.” That’s Putin’s propaganda, but on steroids. That’s what Kadyrov does : same as Daddy Putin, just x100. Probably in part because he’d already be hanging upside down in some gas station if not for Putin, but also because that’s just who he is.
We’re talking about the guy who personally takes part in the torture and murder of political prisoners, and who throws parties where women are “invited” to be raped by him and his friends.
Hey Humbug, could you give us a source for that ”medical fact” you talked about? I’m asking because i think it wrongly informs your perception of women’s sexuality.
@Makroth
My money’s on the MGTOW subreddit.