The incel subreddit is filled with angry dudes who think their inability to convince any human females to have sex with them — their “INvoluntary CELibacy” — is some kind of human rights violation.
Many of these guys aren’t just mad that teen and twentysomething hotties aren’t leaping into bed with them; they’re mad in advance at any hypothetical “post-wall” women who would have sex with them. Because, you see, these bitter fellows imagine that all these women spent their prime hottie years having near-c0nstant sex with other dudes, thus using up all their sexual appeal, or something.
In other words, these guys think sex with any woman over 30 is like eating leftovers that have been quietly rotting away for a week in the fridge.
On the Incels subreddit today, a fellow calling himself jackville07 sets forth his version of this basic thesis:
I have so many questions. First off, why would any woman over thirty possibly want to have sex with a dude who sees her as the sexual equivalent of week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?
And second, are you aware that having sex with a woman over the age of thirty is not actually the sexual equivalent of eating week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?
Incel dudes: Here’s the thing. Not everyone starts having sex at a young age. Some don’t lose their virginity until they’re 30 or older — and this includes plenty of women. And very few people out there are having the constant sex you imagine everyone but you is having. Lots of people have dry spells — some of them years long. There are even some “Chads” out there who are, to use your term, “involuntary celibate.”
There’s nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to be angry about. It’s a part of life, not some plot engineered by the world’s women just to make you miserable.
Here’s the other thing: Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable. No woman — under thirty, over thirty, any age — should have to put up with a guy who hates them so much he’s furious that she’s ever had sex with anyone but him.
If you are able to purge yourself of these toxic ideas about women and sex, you might end up discovering that sex with women over thirty (or forty, or fifty, or OMG even older than that!) can actually be pretty damn awesome? If you get to the point of having sex on a relatively regular basis, enjoy the sex you are having, don’t sit around nursing your bitterness over hypothetical sex you didn’t have when you were younger.
One incel Redditor responded to jackville07 with this nonsense:
I’m sorry you were bullied, dude; no one deserves that. But as for the rest of your comment, well, fuck you. You didn’t “get laid at 18?” Big damn deal. Roughly a third of American males aged 18 and 19 are still virgins. If you spend the rest of your life bitter about the sex you weren’t having at age 18, no woman will ever want to fuck you, including the “chubbies” you’re now begging for sex.
Dudes, stop obsessing over the sex you’re not having. Stop reading the incel subreddit. Go to therapy. Your bitterness and hatred of women is rooted in self-hate; so are your feelings about older women and “chubbies.” Do your best to work through all of these issues. You will become a better person. You will become a happier person. You will become the sort of person women want to have sex with.
This incel mentality seems to start pretty early on, maybe there needs to be some sort of effort made with parents? Not “don’t let your kids watch tv or play video games”, more like “talk to your kids about how what they see on tv and in video games isn’t real, it is people playing roles (or monsters, animated-for-entertainment-but-that-candelabra-won’t-talk-to-you-in-real-life)” kind of stuff?
As nice as telling kids they can do anything they set their mind to, pairing that with no discussion on why that actress or actor was able to do X-Y-Z perfectly sets them up for feeling like they failed at achieving something that was never realistic because it was only possible in a tv/movie/video game universe.
The writing, art and animation is just, like…that’s Samurai Jack. And it’s so far just as amazing as the old Samurai Jack, albeit with slightly prettier art (because HD and computers are much more common in animation) and more adult things. Like, blood was shone and pretty sure in, like, 2001 kid’s cartoons that was a no-no, but even if it’s slightly more mature, it still has the core of the earlier seasons.
For real, so far, if you like Samurai Jack, peeps, you’re not gonna be disappointed. He’s back and shit is going down.
I just want to say this as someone who was bullied as a kid.
Being bullied never made me want to bully others or made me expect that the world owed me something because I was bullied. And it sure as fuck never made me want to disregard the pain and bullying that others went through like I’m playing in the opression olympics.
I’m not sure what set me apart from these so called Incels, but I do get offended when people winge about bullying, and then turn around and want to bully and lord over others.
I’m not a perfect human being by any measure and my personal faults would take no less than thirty years to list if I never slept.
But it really, really gets today of all days to see these self pitying assholes envy the bullies and want to emulate them.
I am 23, going on 24, and fellows will fall in line…
Oh wait. That’s not how that song goes. I honestly find it super creepy that every time they bring up a woman’s age, it’s always to try and use it to deny her self-worth and personal agency. And that’s old enough to be in the Sound of Music. So yeah, these people are just like Rolfe from that musical. Even to the point where they’re supporting American nazis.
Also: 13-30? IS THIS ASSHOLE ACTUALLY SAYING HE WANTS TO FUCK KIDS? Fucking pedophilic jackass. The age of consent in my locality is 18, and it definitely fucking applies when someone in their late twenties or early thirties or even fucking older is talking about 13 fucking year fucking olds.
My understanding of virginity is that if you don’t regard the sex you’ve had as a positive experience, it doesn’t count. So in that respect, I am a 23-year old virgin who is a woman. As other commenters have pointed out, we exist. When I was younger, I wanted to have sex very badly, but I never blamed other people for the fact that they didn’t want to get with me. I played at that a bit, to try and distract myself from hating myself so much, but I never could escape the truth the common factor in all of those circumstances was me. And that the only real power I have is over myself.
Therapy helped me, some. I can’t really afford to keep going now, but while I was going I was diagnosed with Asperger’s and learned a lot about how to work with that and address other people. Of course, now I’m at a point in my life where I’m kinda refusing to not be Aspie because neurotypicals expect it, so my pride is turning my perpetual singleness into a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. And I actually have no problem with that. Social connection is important to human functioning, sex simply isn’t. It’s a fun thing you can sometimes do, but it’s not that important. It’s certainly not more important to me than refusing to conform to demands that should never have been placed on me in the first place.
BLAMMO. All in one.
If any woman ever expressed an interest in a relationship with an incel, he’d probably collapse from the excitement.
Then — once he picked himself up off the floor — he’d ruin the relationship. Destroying a relationship doesn’t take long, maybe a minute or two.
@Alan
I discovered this philosophy after Elliot Rodger’s killing spree. I went on 4chan for the first time, and they were talking about their hero, Elliot, and also proposing that the government send women to incels.
Which I found amusing because years earlier I had suggested to an awful boyfriend (who claimed to be way left) that he wanted the government to send him a different, compliant girlfriend every six months.
I was charmed when I went to the women’s march in San Francisco and spotted this sign: “Intersectional or GTFO.” Just three words pretty much summed up my side of a lot of arguments.
OT: Trump
Every day some horrible new thing.
After Pledging to Donate Salary, Trump Declines to Release Proof
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-pledging-donate-salary-trump-declines-release-proof-n732466
John F. Kennedy donated all but $1 of his salary as president ($100,000) to charity. He also donated his salary to charity when he was a senator. And he managed the Cuban missile crisis well enough that the planet didn’t explode. Nah, I’m not going to defend JFK’s sexism.
Moggie – The idea of government-issued porn is both horrible and hilarious! Horrilarious?
I think it’s pretty obvious that these chuckleheads don’t view self-pleasuring as sex. I don’t know what they do think of it as, but to them, rubbing one out is definitely not proper sex.
Aside from that, I think I know what you’re getting at; at the end of the day, incels, MRAs, MIGTOW, and PUAs are still pretty much interchangeable in that they think they should be entitled to a female person in their sad lives to treat like crap.
It’s almost like the idea of a happy woman infuriates them! ;p
C’mon man, I already about busted a rib laughing at an old white dude who called me racist for pointing out the fact that he’s an old white dude. Go easy on me.
I am counting down the days til my 30th, when my invisibility cloak will kick in, and none of these creepy fucks will bother me again for the rest of my life.
…that’s how it works, right? Please tell me that’s how it works.
@Dan Kasteray
Yeah, same here. I was bullied constantly, but it never made me an entitled crybaby or want to take it out on everyone else. It definitely effected me in ways that I don’t always realize, but I don’t even hold a grudge against any of them. The way I see it, we were all just dumb kids, I did my fair share of dumb things that I wouldn’t do today, and I guarantee none of them would treat me like that today either.
Everything about the mentality of these incels baffles me. By all measures, I should sympathize with them, because I’ve had to live the same way. None of them can say I don’t understand what they’re going through, I couldn’t get a girlfreind to save my life and apparently still can’t, and I’d bet my literal ass that I’ve been worse off than most of them and have more reason to be bitter and frustrated and hate women, but I simply don’t, because it’s just not rational. I’m not a victim, women aren’t to blame for my failures, they don’t owe me a goddamn thing. I see these “incels” as exactly as pathetic as the rest of us see them, if not moreso, despite being just as much of a failure in life, because that’s just my objective observation.
Over the last thirty years, I’ve had multiple sexual partners ranging from late teens to early fifties.
The best? The four who were forty and up. Absolutely no question.
These so-called “incels” are so obsessed with the notion that their partners have to be young and somehow “untainted” that they ignore the fact that they’re actually much more likely to have the kind of wild, uninhibited and pretty much effortless sex that they so obviously desperately crave with someone who’s already been around the block a few times and who consequently knows her body extremely well and knows exactly what she wants.
I still remember switching from a 21-year-old to someone fully twice her age. Mind blown. (And quite a few other things besides.) That was a full 25 years ago, and the youngest person I’ve slept with since then was 35. In other words, I’ve been doing the precise opposite of what these people advocate, and I have absolutely no complaints: I’d gladly do everything the same way all over again.
It’s surprising that David would offer some well-intentioned advice to those who refer to other people as “cum buckets”.
According to one of the few studies around this there’s something like 50% more adult male virgins, which is likely due to societal norm for men to initiate; Those who are socially awkward, lack social skills, or have easily observable bitter hangups effectively count themselves out by not approaching or doing so in ways that are inappropriate. That’s more than can be addressed in a few therapy/counseling sessions.
Some self-examination and change of attitude might at least make them less obnoxious human beings, help them find a few genuine friends, etc. That’s pretty much my experience.
I know this is the mildest of all the fantasies here, but rich doctor at 30?? Assuming you take the fastest possible route and do 2 years of undergrad and med school you are 24 when you graduate, plus a minimum of two years of residency. At this point you have ~$200,000 in student loans by the time you’re 26 and working, and family docs (the only 2 year program) will be able to pay that off in 3-4 years if they live frugally, work tons and have no clinic expenses. Even in the BEST case scenario you’re looking at 35. I won’t even finish my specialization until I’m 35, I’m hoping to be actually paying off debt that isn’t student loan debt in my mid 40s…
Oh but right women are less educated, I forgot.
OT — and horrifying.
TW for rape
Raped, beaten, exploited: the 21st-century slavery propping up Sicilian farming
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/mar/12/slavery-sicily-farming-raped-beaten-exploited-romanian-women
TW for rape
@Kat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY
“Buuuuuut, you’re a FAT CHICK*! You’ve HIT THE WALL**! Also I just wet myself! Get away from me, you SLUT***!”
That’s how I picture it, anyway. How many seconds does that work out to?
* “Fat chick” = anyone with a double-digit dress size. Even the LOW double digits.
** “Hit the wall” = anyone who’s out of her teens, apparently. Even if only just.
*** “Slut” = anyone who gives him a boner, which he can’t handle and it makes him mad so he immediately projects all his “dirty” feelings onto her.
You know, sometimes I forget just how much they hate us. Then I see something like this and I feel sad, sick, and repulsed.
@ryeash:
Sadly, no. I still get catcalled at 49. Not as often as at 19, mercifully. But it happens. Even in the dead of winter, when I’m bundled up to my eyeballs, it happens. And I’m either so inured to it or have so much better control of my face at this age that I don’t even wrinkle my nose at them anymore. Even though all my innards are screaming “WTF? I thought I’m supposed to be PAST all this shit!”
@Wetherby:
That made me guffaw loud enough to scare the cat. Thanks!
Huh. It’s like a more overtly-hateful version of the wizard meme.
And now I need to scrub my brain clean, because my girlfriend and I, after some years, finally realized the level of physical compatibility and emotional trust needed to have sex mere months before our thirtieth birthdays…and the idea of doing anything that might meet this jackwagon’s approval makes me feel profoundly unclean.
@IgnoreSandra: Being Aspie doesn’t doom you to being alone forever. My (amazingly awesome) girlfriend is Aspie, and two of my best friends are Aspie (one diagnosed, one probable) and married to each other. I’m ADHD, which affects a lot of the same areas of the brain as Asperger’s/autism, so I get along with them *great*. It’s really nice having someone who gets how your brain works!
Then again, I’m gonna be 39 this year, so maybe it just takes a while for neurodiverse people to figure out who they are and fight cultural pressures to act like neurotypical people.
And also, obviously, I’m post-wall or whatever. Like I care. 😛
@IgnoreSandra
What Her Grace said.Hubby and I are both on the spectrum, and so’s his girlfriend. And I’ve got a wonderful fella who’ neurotypical as well.
@Her Grace Phryne
I’ve encountered some fairly compelling arguments that ADHD (and OCD), may in fact be part of the autism spectrum.
@Dali
=^_^= Love you, darlin! <3
I'm 25 and a raging virgin. The virginity is raging, I mean. But I never got angry that I wasn't getting any. Sad, sure, but never mad. Then, I figured out that I'm some kinda ace (I found the word 'ace' years later, and began identifying as such a while after that). Didn't make my 'incel' years any easier, and definitely didn't mean I felt any less like I was missing out
Cos it was never about getting girls to fuck me, it's about what I felt I should do and have. Not what they owed me but what I owed myself. From what others have said, that seems to be the main diff. People who are accepting of their virginity/celibacy, or who aren't but turn that negativity inwards, don't end up like these assholes. The latter is still nonsense tho
Long story short, I got older, learned about myself and the world, and I'm finally, entirely secure in my lack of a sex life. Well, almost entirely. Lotsa bullshit, macho social programming, and that shit don't go away overnight. Still, can confirm, my teen years weren't the prime of my life. Nowadays, I'm content, wiser, and a far better, more complete human being. I've also now got a special ladyfriend, who's everything these muffugas think themselves too good for. Turns out, gals might be into you if you're not a shit. And, if you're not a shit, you'll be OK if gals aren't into you. Win win, fellas!
@Her Grace & Dalillama:
Yeah, I know I’m not doomed to be alone. I’ve made a lot of great friends since really coming to terms with my diagnosis, and I asked a girl out a few months ago…and had a lovely conversation with her about the nature of her personal journey instead of the hard no I was expecting. She told me to ask her again in the summer cause she’d made a commitment to be single for a solid year.
I find it’s a lot easier to make friends and connect with people online, which I really adore living at a point in history where that is possible. Also, musicals. Love those <3
Plus, I don't know if "doomed to be alone" is really a thing. I'm just fine on my own, even if I occasionally want to share my loneliness with others 😛
That's the critical difference I'm noting between me and the incels here, and also the migtoes. They might or might not pretend to be fine alone, but they're not.
‘John F. Kennedy donated all but $1 of his salary as president ($100,000) to charity. He also donated his salary to charity when he was a senator.’
I did not know that!