The incel subreddit is filled with angry dudes who think their inability to convince any human females to have sex with them — their “INvoluntary CELibacy” — is some kind of human rights violation.
Many of these guys aren’t just mad that teen and twentysomething hotties aren’t leaping into bed with them; they’re mad in advance at any hypothetical “post-wall” women who would have sex with them. Because, you see, these bitter fellows imagine that all these women spent their prime hottie years having near-c0nstant sex with other dudes, thus using up all their sexual appeal, or something.
In other words, these guys think sex with any woman over 30 is like eating leftovers that have been quietly rotting away for a week in the fridge.
On the Incels subreddit today, a fellow calling himself jackville07 sets forth his version of this basic thesis:
I have so many questions. First off, why would any woman over thirty possibly want to have sex with a dude who sees her as the sexual equivalent of week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?
And second, are you aware that having sex with a woman over the age of thirty is not actually the sexual equivalent of eating week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?
Incel dudes: Here’s the thing. Not everyone starts having sex at a young age. Some don’t lose their virginity until they’re 30 or older — and this includes plenty of women. And very few people out there are having the constant sex you imagine everyone but you is having. Lots of people have dry spells — some of them years long. There are even some “Chads” out there who are, to use your term, “involuntary celibate.”
There’s nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to be angry about. It’s a part of life, not some plot engineered by the world’s women just to make you miserable.
Here’s the other thing: Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable. No woman — under thirty, over thirty, any age — should have to put up with a guy who hates them so much he’s furious that she’s ever had sex with anyone but him.
If you are able to purge yourself of these toxic ideas about women and sex, you might end up discovering that sex with women over thirty (or forty, or fifty, or OMG even older than that!) can actually be pretty damn awesome? If you get to the point of having sex on a relatively regular basis, enjoy the sex you are having, don’t sit around nursing your bitterness over hypothetical sex you didn’t have when you were younger.
One incel Redditor responded to jackville07 with this nonsense:
I’m sorry you were bullied, dude; no one deserves that. But as for the rest of your comment, well, fuck you. You didn’t “get laid at 18?” Big damn deal. Roughly a third of American males aged 18 and 19 are still virgins. If you spend the rest of your life bitter about the sex you weren’t having at age 18, no woman will ever want to fuck you, including the “chubbies” you’re now begging for sex.
Dudes, stop obsessing over the sex you’re not having. Stop reading the incel subreddit. Go to therapy. Your bitterness and hatred of women is rooted in self-hate; so are your feelings about older women and “chubbies.” Do your best to work through all of these issues. You will become a better person. You will become a happier person. You will become the sort of person women want to have sex with.
@Alan
Even after YEARS of reading about the man-o-sphere, THIS is the stuff that still gets my blood boiling. Really, it’s the same with conspiracy theorists. They somehow WANT their bleaker than bleak worldview to be right, and will do anything to protect it. I mean, I know people in general hate change & challenge. But this is not that.
Schematic:
Incels: problem problem problem weeeehhh
World: here, solution
Incels: no no no I hate you stop giving me solutions.
Which begs the question: what do they WANT? What is their ENDGAME? Have they become so attached to their role of victim that they just don’t want to give it up? Is hard-done-by their favourite done by?
p.s. the hER and bettER thing truly made my eyes pop, but as we know, there will always be worse, with the guys who don’t find him a True Incel enough…JESUS.
ETA: Ninja’d by Ohlmann: “And it’s a lot easier to cast itself as a loser than to try to improve”
@ fruitloopsie
Oh you were perfectly clear. Sorry, it was probably my response that wasn’t. 🙂
You’re making a couple assfaxumptions and not backing them up. What makes you think weren’t unpartnered men before cognitive therapy was developed? What is your evidence that before feminism and psychiatry, relationships were all smooth sailing for everyone? Haven’t you ever read or seen a Shakespeare comedy? Or any other book or play with romantic relationships in the plot. I don’t know if there’s any reliable data on how many people were unpartnered or how many had bumpy romances and courtships, but these stories probably wouldn’t exist if love troubles didn’t exist across time and culture.
Where is your evidence that men who don’t look like Jason Mamoa can’t find a partner these days? We always hear this from manurespherians but spend a couple of hours out in the real world and it’s clear this is not true. There are plenty of men who aren’t super conventionally hot with girlfriends, boyfriends, wives, husbands. I observe it just about every day. Sure, beautiful people might have more options on who they can date. That does not mean you need to be beautiful to find a partner.
My view is that it’s less video games and more (passive) visual media in general, upbringing, and general society also gets a cameo.
Visual media, by which I mainly mean tv and movies, has a mainly passive form of consumption. The audience sits in front of the screen with their eyes open and information streams into their brains. Some of those brains have extremely poor filters, and some are extremely gullible/impressionable. ETA: Internet echo chambers can probably be added into the mix as well.
Add in the standard ‘happy ending’ bullshit (ie. girl=prize, guy always gets the prize, even if the ‘prize’ hated his guts for the whole show/movie) + the standard pervasive toxic masculinity. You’re bound to end up with some royally fucked up people who believe and internalize all that bullshit.
None of this is to say that these poor, precious, entitled snowflakes (ie. incels/mgtows) are blameless in any fashion. I just think that there could be some kind of mechanism behind their (initial, false) beliefs. If they lack the self-awareness to evaluate (and modify) their own behaviours/beliefs (and other’s reactions to it/them) in a wider social context, that’s all on them.
Oh, that’s sad. He writes like a twenty year old who is very angsty but smug because a couple college courses made him think he knows it all.
The entire manosphere sounds like that regardless of age though, don’t they?
@Lea: So, our friend Mark is in his 60s. Downright disturbing, that someone can be so privileged, so insulated from any reality outside his worldview, to hold onto his warped assumptions and beliefs about women.
Well, Trump’s 70.
I was thinking the same thing. Dude, did you not have teachers or anything???
@Magpie
@Bina
I’m 28 going on 29, so close to the “post-wall” limit. (Or am I way, way over? The posts keep changing). Either they think that a woman physically deteriorates at the stroke of midnight upon her 30th birthday, or they think that it’s a gradual effect starting at…whatever goddamn age they’re currently running with.
Lessee. I have zero wrinkles, not even the start of raven’s claws when I smile. Hell I still have some mild acne, even. I have stretch marks on my thighs, sure, but that was from losing a decent amount of weight and those chucklefucks want women to be slim, right? You can’t see them except under bright light anyway.
I do have varicose veins in my legs due to a circulation problem, and I do have some premature grey hairs. Hmmmmm. Ah well. Nobody knows unless I tell them and the trade off is that it will get redpill/incels types to back off. I’m happy with that!
@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs: I was just thinking the same thing.
Privilege on steroids.
Jackville07:
Sure. You were 13 years old and no parent was paying rent for you to have a place to live. The government refused to provide you, as a homeless teen, any housing or other services. You worked 3 minimum wage jobs to pay for your own food – which you prepared yourself – and a place out of the rain to study your 8th grade, health-class textbook. You probably even personally forged the ID allowing you to avoid anti-child-labor laws. But if you didn’t , it’s only because you taught yourself creative writing & sold a book to a publisher or something to get the money to pay a professional forger who didn’t have the heart to help you in your Libertarian quest for self-sufficiency…at least not without 5 thousand dollars up front.
Yes, yes. I’m sure those were hard years for you, the years you got ZERO help from ANYONE.
…and these Feminists have the BALLZ to say that women are under appreciated when with everything you’ve done with ZERO help from ANYONE can’t even get you a hand job.
@sunnysombrera:
Hell if I know, I was reckoning by the Chinese calendar. That seems to be the one that most of these clods seem to consider our sell-by date, as if we were literally Christmas cakes that have no value after the 25th.
And yeah, 30 is awfully arbitrary (and young!) to be considered a used-up crone, too. At 30, I was still breaking out in zits (heyo!) and while I was starting to get those vertical between-the-brow lines, I assumed it was just from being all “WTF???” a lot, and having nothing to do with age. Expressions, we have them! Our faces, they develop folds from them! And yet, strangely, it makes absolutely no difference to who we are as people! And neither does our fertility or lack thereof, which is less dependent on age (or extreme youth, rather) than was previously believed!
Oh, the shock and the horror! Women are complete human beings, not reproductive sex-machines! (Or sexual slop-buckets, in these guys’ idiotic view of things.)
I am very glad I am asexual and don’t even have to participate in the mating game.
OT : I am currently painting a bunch of minis for a wargame. I have added hair to some to suggest they are female, and painted half in a dark skin tone, the other half in a pale tone.
The power of unconscious stereotype make it so when I look at the hairless one, I feel that they look physically stronger than the haired one ; and when I look to the darker skin ones, I feel that they look physically stronger than the pale ones.
I guess it’s my daily remember that racism and sexism is a thing powerfully implanted in my psyche. (and in most people psyche I guess)
Funny thing, but despite being over 30, and having had a lot of partners, my husband seems to think that sex with me is still fun. Also, a fair number of the aforementioned partners were also women over 30, and I recall having quite a bit of fun then too. That said, I doubt if these jackasses would actually have much fun even if they could somehow convince a woman to have sex with them; I’m honestly not sure they remember what fun is in any context.
OT: Samurai Jack gave me hope for the future of reboots and continuations.
@earlier troll: Studies referencing a previous survey do not necessarily interpret the survey correctly. Also, “Lies, damned lies, and statistics” isn’t just a saying. Thirdly, even well conducted surveys can be wrong, see most any voter survey from last election that failed to account for those people afraid to admit “Yeah, I’m voting for the bigoted orange one”.
Finally, which part of that survey actually supports the conclusions in the Heritage study? For an interesting exercise in “choosing graphs carefully to prove point”, read Crichton’s “State of Fear”. Near the last sentence of the Author’s Note/Appendix, Crichton says you should be suspicious of the agenda of anyone presenting scientific results… then says he has no such agenda. That was the best part of the whole novel, the book, appendix and bibliography full of data “proving” global warming wasn’t happening, claiming “no agenda, read these and think for yourself”. On the other hand, don’t bother reading it, it’s not very good as a novel either.
@Handsome
I just want to gush about everything in this season premiere but at the same time it would ruin the surprise.
Oh, hey, it’s a good thing my current spouse, whom I married when I was 35 and he was 30, didn’t know all this back in the day, otherwise he might have thought I was a post-wall past my expiration date and kept on his quest to find the woman he was entitled to instead of marrying the woman he loved.
Dalillama said
But, I thought that a big part of the incel’s schtick was that sex (for menz, anyway) is a totes serious *need* and not some frivolous desire for funzies. Hence, their demands for government intervention to get them laid. Which makes interpersonal interaction not something to be done for enjoyment, but merely a means to an end.
Don’t know what my point here was except maybe for yeah, incel seems to be where fun goes to die a horrible and unnecessary death.
Hi guys! A few days ago, the official report on our handling of the 2015 refugee crisis was finally published. It’s been in the works for since June last year. I haven’t had time to read it yet, but over the next few days I hope to scan the most important parts. I doubt I’ll have the time and patience to read the whole thing (it’s 600+ pages). If anyone’s interested, I’ll post my understanding of the report and its conclusions in an open thread when I’m ready. Report can be found here (PDF):
https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwidr77N7NHSAhUFlCwKHdP1AVcQFggvMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.regeringen.se%2F493a12%2Fcontentassets%2Fe8c195d35dea4c05a1c952f9b0b45f38%2Fatt-ta-emot-manniskor-pa-flykt-sou-201712-hela&usg=AFQjCNGs1bkegRndlvp1eECVUD1VyoMo8A&sig2=A0S_0HrlAftdcIZGS6e8_g&cad=rja
@SFHC
I sent you an email a little while back. Not sure if you’ve seen it! The content of which is somewhat pressing! It’s Pokemon Go related! 🙂
IP:
I’d be very interested; your posts give me plenty of rebuttals against the online bigots who use Sweden as their argument against refugees. And for that, I thank you.
Hambeast:
On the government intervention thing: if this were simply about sex, they would be demanding that the government issue Fleshlights, and maybe porn (can you imagine government-issue porn?). So I think there’s more to this than simply the need for sex. There’s also laundry and sammiches, for example.
I don’t think that men like this think of having sex as a pleasureable thing to do in and of itself, but as a way of proving oneself and of achieving worth by comparing the ‘conquests’. The sex could be absolutely awful for both parties but if the ‘female’ in question is a teenager, slim and fulfils other criteria these saddo’s would be delighted with the experience. There is no hint at all that they see sex as a mutually enjoyable experience.
Now reading comments I can see that other peeps share this opinion.