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Incels agree: It’s “unfair and cruel” to expect men to enjoy sex with women over 30

Happily, we don’t live in a world in which we’re put to death at the age of 30

The incel subreddit is filled with angry dudes who think their inability to convince any human females to have sex with them — their “INvoluntary CELibacy” — is some kind of human rights violation.

Many of these guys aren’t just mad that teen and twentysomething hotties aren’t leaping into bed with them; they’re mad in advance at any hypothetical “post-wall” women who would have sex with them. Because, you see, these bitter fellows imagine that all these women spent their prime hottie years having near-c0nstant sex with other dudes, thus using up all their sexual appeal, or something.

In other words, these guys think sex with any woman over 30 is like eating leftovers that have been quietly rotting away for a week in the fridge.

On the Incels subreddit today, a fellow calling himself jackville07 sets forth his version of this basic thesis:

If You did Not Enjoy Women in Your Youth then You got a RAW DEAL (self.Incels) submitted 8 hours ago by jackville07 Study hard, when ur 30 and successful all the women will finally mature and chase u since u will be a rich doctor. Dont worry All those chads will be working at a gas station at 30. Ur time will come. There is someone for everyone. Am I supposed to feel happy that I studied and worked my ass off (with ZERO help from ANYONE) from 13-30 without love,sex and intimacy and without enjoying a woman in her PRIME and BEST years. I must now accept a lower paying less educated woman who is past her prime and less attractive with sagging skin and stretch marks and who was a cum bucket for tons of chads for 17 years and be grateful and happy with that??? Why should men even live if we are given such a raw deal in life?? Totally unfair and cruel if u ask me.

I have so many questions. First off, why would any woman over thirty possibly want to have sex with a dude who sees her as the sexual equivalent of week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?

And second, are you aware that having sex with a woman over the age of thirty is not actually the sexual equivalent of eating week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge? 

Incel dudes: Here’s the thing. Not everyone starts having sex at a young age. Some don’t lose their virginity until they’re 30 or older — and this includes plenty of women. And very few people out there are having the constant sex you imagine everyone but you is having. Lots of people have dry spells — some of them years long. There are even some “Chads” out there who are, to use your term, “involuntary celibate.”

There’s nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to be angry about. It’s a part of life, not some plot engineered by the world’s women just to make you miserable.

Here’s the other thing: Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable. No woman — under thirty, over thirty, any age — should have to put up with a guy who hates them so much he’s furious that she’s ever had sex with anyone but him.

If you are able to purge yourself of these toxic ideas about women and sex, you might end up discovering that sex with women over thirty (or forty, or fifty, or OMG even older than that!) can actually be pretty damn awesome? If you get to the point of having sex on a relatively regular basis, enjoy the sex you are having, don’t sit around nursing your bitterness over hypothetical sex you didn’t have when you were younger.

One incel Redditor responded to jackville07 with this nonsense:

thegambler952 5 points 9 hours ago i feel you because im walking toward this path. i lost the best years of my life in a shitty university due to bullying. i will never get laid at 18 because im 21. fuck this. im too old and all girls are geting married while im pleading for chubbys to take my virginity

I’m sorry you were bullied, dude; no one deserves that. But as for the rest of your comment, well, fuck you. You didn’t “get laid at 18?” Big damn deal. Roughly a third of American males aged 18 and 19 are still virgins. If you spend the rest of your life bitter about the sex you weren’t having at age 18, no woman will ever want to fuck you, including the “chubbies” you’re now begging for sex.

Dudes, stop obsessing over the sex you’re not having. Stop reading the incel subreddit. Go to therapy. Your bitterness and hatred of women is rooted in self-hate; so are your feelings about older women and “chubbies.” Do your best to work through all of these issues. You will become a better person. You will become a happier person. You will become the sort of person women want to have sex with.

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Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

This is a breeding ground of “Elliot Rogers”.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

I guess they’re not into the Ara Ara archetype. Then again they don’t seem to be anyone’s type with that attitude.

@Fruitloopsie
And the US government refuses to acknowledge radicalization of these folk.

Ratzilla
Ratzilla
4 years ago

Peter Steele was 19 when he first had sex.

Shaenon
4 years ago

It’s always cute to see what teenage boys think adult sex is like.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Speaking as one of those horrible and hideous 30 somethings, I don’t recall offering to have sex with an “incel.”

Also, the only time I had stretch marks was when I was a teenager and my boobs grew from an AA to a DD just about overnight. They faded after a bit Stretch marks are a result of very rapid weight gain that, you know, stretches the skin a lot. This tends to happen either or around puberty or doing pregnancy. I’m not sure why this guy thinks that single 30 year olds are riddled with stretch marks.

And sagging skin tends to happen in ones fifties or sixties. Not thirties. Except in cases of rapid weight loss.

That’s some serious yo-yo dieting on the part of a thirty year old to have both sagging skin and stretch marks.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

The incels have a point. Women may live longer than men on average, but they age sexually a lot faster than men.

Men, unlike women, have the option of living the equivalent of two or even three lives because we can marry younger women and start new families with them every couple of decades until fairly late in life – uh, like President Trump, in fact. (No wonder so many men admire him.)

Women just don’t have that option because their eggs deteriorate by their late 20’s, and then they hit menopause in their 40’s.

Ten Bears
4 years ago

Thirty-something? That’s like… children.

A hot young fifty year old, that’s the ticket.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

Your bitterness and hatred of women is rooted in self-hate; so are your feelings about older women and “chubbies.” Do your best to work through all of these issues. You will become a better person. You will become a happier person. You will become the sort of person women want to have sex with.

Name me one guy this has worked for. Give me a real example.

Women don’t care if you’ve had “therapy” or not. If they don’t find you attractive in your given state in the first place, “therapy” won’t make any difference.

iknklast
iknklast
4 years ago

If he thinks that the best years of his life are past him at 21, well, he has a strange idea of life as an adult. Frankly, I wouldn’t live those years over again if I had the chance, because my life became fuller and richer as I matured and learned what I was interested in and capable of. My life at 56 is fuller and richer than it has ever been, and frankly, if he thinks I am disturbed that a bunch of 21-year-old incels do not want to have sex with a woman my age, he’s wrong. I’m not losing a bit of sleep over that.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

We have data from empirical social science which show that women ruin themselves for stable marriages when they premarital sexual adventures. Basically women cross the threshold to becoming a divorce risk (more than 50 percent) when they have two or three sexual relationships before marriage.

Our allegedly ignorant and superstitious ancestors showed good insight into human sexuality by shaming slags, shunning bastard kids and trying to marry off their daughters as virgins.

Reference:

THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF EARLY SEXUAL ACTIVITY AND MULTIPLE SEXUAL PARTNERS AMONG WOMEN: A BOOK OF CHARTS

“The study is based on the National Survey of Family Growth, a survey fielded in 1995 to a nationally representative sample of roughly 10,000 women between the ages of 15 and 44, sponsored and funded by the Centers for Disease Control of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.”

Bina
4 years ago

I didn’t get around to having PIV sex until I was at (or near) the age that these guys would start considering me to be leftovers. I’m now nearly twice that age, have been in a dry spell for I don’t even want to SAY how long, and I still wouldn’t contemplate breaking it to have sex with any of them no matter what they looked like, simply because their whiny hateful attitudes make them SO NOT WORTH IT.

(And yes, I was kind of whiny and desperate/afraid to “lose my virginity” too, right up until I did it…and then, immediately after the deed was done, I wondered why anyone made it out to be such a big deal! Because, you know, it WASN’T.)

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

It also amuses me that both Christians and atheists say things to the effect that atheists enjoy sexual libertinism.

It just doesn’t work that way for a lot of men. When a sexually unattractive Christian man renounces belief in god because he thinks that will improve his sex life, he just becomes a sexually unattractive atheist who still can’t get laid, probably like the guy who tried to pick up Rebecca Watson, the SkepChick, at an atheist conference a few years ago.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Mark Plus
Heritage Foundation

Suspiciously, their results always support whatever they are already lobbying for. In one classic example, a study they conducted found that poor people aren’t actually poor.[3] They then lobbied to end welfare for the poor.

The foundation also pushed lackadaisical policies about Iraq, stating that only 40,000 troops would be needed to take over and maintain order in Iraq, that the war would be over in a couple of years at most,[4] and that the Iraqis would greet us with open arms (which proved true, but not in quite the way it was intended), and that the Iraqis wanted democracy.

Yes, they do pull these studies out of their ass.

A number of their studies on global warming also come from the PIDOOMA department. One study they cite supposedly demonstrates that global warming will have no effect on the US economy.[5] They also enjoy quote mining statements on climate research,[6] parroting denialist PRATTs,[7] and hosting other members of the denialist echo chamber, such as E. Calvin Beisner’s Cornwall Alliance.[8]

The Heritage Foundation also promotes intelligent design.

Did you even check
Who you were referencing?
How disappointing.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

The ability to have sexual relationships with women doesn’t exist in isolation; it forms part of an adult man’s skill set for knowing how to deal with women in general. Ceteris paribus, women respect a man whom they know has had girlfriends or wives over a straight man who can’t seem to attract women. And this difference has practical consequences in men’s careers, not just in their bedrooms.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

Oh goody, it’s a day ending in y and we have a troll beginning with “Mark”. One who’s trying to pawn off a Robert Rector snake-oil study from the Heritage Foundation as scientific evidence.

Our allegedly ignorant and superstitious ancestors showed good insight into human sexuality by shaming slags, shunning bastard kids and trying to marry off their daughters as virgins.

Fuck off. Go gargle “The Star Spangled Banner” with toilet water.

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

Oh, lookie here. We’ve got our own incel posting here.

Complaining about the very women he so desperately wants to obtain sex from.

How very original.

Bina
4 years ago

@Troll Plus:

Our allegedly ignorant and superstitious ancestors showed good insight into human sexuality by shaming slags, shunning bastard kids and trying to marry off their daughters as virgins.

They weren’t “allegedly” ignorant and superstitious, they WERE ignorant and superstitious. And I for one am glad that those stupid shitkickers are all dead. My life would have been miserable if things were still done that way. I’m happy, and if you’re not, you have no one but your repugnant self to blame.

Don’t even bother trying to resurrect them or their idiot “philosophy”. Just fuck off.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

The Heritage Foundation study references a real survey funded by the Centers for Disease Control in 1995, under the Clinton Administration.

You can find the data on this page. Scroll down to “Cycle 5 ( 1995) Reports”:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/nsfg_products.htm

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants
This is pretty much how it goes now.
http://i.imgur.com/gYzDmSD.png
It’s like Live Die Repeat/Edge of Tomorrow but worse.

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

Go gargle “The Star Spangled Banner” with toilet water.

This is a wonderful insult, and I fully intend to use it elsewhere, with your permission, of course.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
4 years ago

The average size for an American woman is now 16-18, meaning the “chubbies” they so disdain and consider themselves superior to consist of more than half the female population.

I don’t think they can actually call themselves “involuntarily” celibate when they would turn down more than half of their options. Goodness knows most of these guys think “fat” starts at a size 8-10 for women, even though a lot of ’em are fat themselves.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

No one has answered my question about the value of “therapy” for an incel, I see. I don’t ask for much: Give me one example of an incel who could attract a girlfriend after seeking treatment from a psychotherapist.

This advice doesn’t even make any sense. Psychotherapy didn’t exist before the 20th Century, and arguably it didn’t exist before the 1950’s when Albert Ellis and Aaron Beck developed cognitive approaches to help people manage their emotions better; the techniques they originated have quite a lot of scientific support now.

Ordinary, not very attractive guys didn’t seem to have trouble finding female companions before then, so why would psychotherapy become necessary now?

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@David Futrelle
I’d say ban; he’s boring, he doesn’t change his shtick much, and would rather talk at others than with them. He was more interesting when he was pulling multiple sock puppets with different gimmicks of extremes. This is just lazy.

Fabe
Fabe
4 years ago

I say ban him. his posts aren’t even entertaining ,just boring .

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

Yeah, I vote ban, also. He’s pretty unoriginal.

MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
4 years ago

Yeah, unless he starts talking about catching seagulls, I say block him.

Mark Plus
Mark Plus
4 years ago

They weren’t “allegedly” ignorant and superstitious, they WERE ignorant and superstitious.

If you believe in evolution, you can’t have it both ways. Our ancestors had to get a lot of important things right on average, generation after generation, to keep the human species in business in a harsh and dangerous world. And that includes getting human sexuality right enough for practical purposes.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

OT: First episode of the final season of Samurai jack just came out. Holy stars so much, of everything.

isidore13
isidore13
4 years ago

Do the incels make anyone else think of this video? Or is it too adorable to be associated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM

Mark, I’m a female incel who’s never had sex and I’m 33.

Actually, tbh the older I get the more I realize I’m actually some flavor of ace, but regardless, all throughout my teens and 20s I would have considered myself incel if I knew the term. Also, I am FEMALE. FEMALE. INCEL.

Does it blow your fucking mind?! OMFG. Female virgin at 33! Post wall female who never rode the cock carousel! WTAFBBQ?!?!?!?!

It’s almost like people aren’t owed sex with other people, or something.

Vucodlak
Vucodlak
4 years ago

@ Mark Plus

“When a sexually unattractive Christian man renounces belief in god because he thinks that will improve his sex life”

I… what? Do people actually do that? I know I sure as hell didn’t renounce Christianity to get laid. Every time I’ve made a major shift in my religious affiliation, it’s come as a result of years of careful consideration and soul searching. My dick did not enter into it (with no disrespect to the Thelemites).

Hey, here’s a thought: Maybe guys who become atheists to get laid don’t get rejected because they’re physically unattractive. Maybe they get rejected because they have all the depth and personality of a puddle in a patio chair.

The supposed ‘wisdom of the ancestors’ you referenced was all about maintaining their own power. It was arrogance, it was greed, and it was all for not, for beneath the urine-soaked ground they yet rot. In other words, they still died, and will be remembered as much for their disgrace as they are for their accomplishments.

Guest
Guest
4 years ago

‘Name me one guy this has worked for. Give me a real example.’

My ex-husband. My college BFF’s husband. Both attractive good-hearted guys but really fucked-up before therapy, and not really able to adult; both went into therapy (my ex before I met him, my friend’s man after) and became the kind of men women would be proud to be with. So there’s two.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

@Ooglyboggles – Spot on, and I love the drawing. Though we never seem to get any closer to getting rid of him.

@PeeVee – Aw, thanks! Feel free to use it wherever needed.

Back to the OP:

Dont worry. All the chads will be working at a gas station at 30

See, this is a myth. Generally, chads continue on down the road of privilege either because they were born into it, or they have the necessary bro-traits that help them break into that world. F’rinstance, of my high school class, the vast majority of chads went on to high-level six figure corporate jobs. Some of them did extremely well. No, it isn’t fair, but it’s how the world works.

Adolescent sex isn’t some amazing party that, if you miss out on it, the rest of your life will forever be a letdown. Teenage sex is usually the worst sex of your life, during the most awkwardly cringy physical phase of your life. Teenagers are larval. They’re clumsy, they have acne and braces, their bodies are rapidly changing, they experiment with hairstyles and fashions. Nobody has any idea what they’re doing at that age. OP’s idea of teenaged girls is probably skewed by watching HB9 porn actresses in their mid twenties portray them.

I wonder if he gets outraged when he gets dirty pennies in his change, or is it only women that must live up to his rarefied requirements?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Mark plus what? What does the plus mean? Extra inanity?

Basically women cross the threshold to becoming a divorce risk (more than 50 percent) when they have two or three sexual relationships before marriage.

Correlation isn’t causation. Most people who don’t have sex until marriage have religious beliefs that oppose divorce as well. It doesn’t necessarily mean having a sexual history makes you an unsuitable partner. That’s so glaringly obvious. Without even reading anything I can guarantee the CDC did not come to the conclusion that sluts make bad wives. This was all the Heritage Foundation twisting the data to make an unfounded assumption. You can’t just show that women with a few partners get divorced, you have to show causation.

You get an F in social studies. It matches nicely with the Fs in biology and home economics that you’ve earned in your previous postings.

I’d also like to know the statistics for men. Are men with 2 or 3 sexual partners more likely to divorce as well? Curious how studies like this about how sex will ruin western civilization or whatever only focus on female sexuality. I wonder why that would be.

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

WWTH, MArk has clearly not read the excellent CDC data he cites (thanks, Mark, I’m bookmarking that like for further reading!)
Here’s a snippet:

Age at marriage is associated with
the risk of marital disruption. Table 21
shows that after 10 years of marriage,
48 percent of first marriages of brides
under age 18 have disrupted, compared
with only 24 percent of those to brides
at least age 25 at marriage (table 21).
Women in the youngest age category are
twice as likely to experience marital
disruption within 10 years as women in
the oldest age category. Figure 19 shows
that this difference is even larger among
white women, a difference of
28 percentage points. Among black
women, the difference is 17 percentage
points. Figure 19 also shows that there
is virtually no difference by age at
marriage among Hispanic women.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
4 years ago

I really, really, really, really don’t get this notion that all women over 30 are all somehow a bunch of deformed hags. Like, seriously, do they really think women rapidly age as if they’re Dorian Gray and their portrait has just been destroyed? ‘Cause, speaking as a 30-something male whose been around plenty of other women around the same age, it doesn’t seem like they’re suffering from a sudden form of progeria – plenty of them look perfectly fine for their age.

Like, take a huge celebrity crush of mine: Alison Brie.

http://vz.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/alison-brie.jpg

I’m not sure how you can say “OH MY GAWD, WHAT A HIDEOUS BEAST!!!” when seeing her. In fact, it’s totally unthinkable to me…

Steampunked
Steampunked
4 years ago

Because they don’t want sex with women, I think, Nick. They want sex with a fantasy that doesn’t exist. The way they (try to) dodge the mockery that far less harmful philias get stung with is by claiming all women are disgusting and below their standards.

Honestly I think both Chad and Beta Male as concepts exist for them so they can put down dudes who can get satisfaction from somewhere other than their philia.

calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago

I think these are the kind of guys who’ll say “Pfffft, not that hot” about any female they see (especially celebrity women, who don’t have time to reject them individually) if they think it will make them sound like a Tough Guy.

Also Alison Brie has done comedy and we all know women can’t be funny! Plus <30 I mean ew. (/s)

Ktoryx
Ktoryx
4 years ago

Is this the one with the thing about eating seagulls? That one was pretty funny. Or is it the one that thinks that being attractive around men is rape? Or were they the same one, I can’t keep track when they keep changing their little names around.

WRT the actual article, its sort of same shit different day with these incels. All of my personal problems are the world’s fault, blah blah… Like, you spent your 20s studying and concentrating on your career, and now you’re mad that you didn’t spend your 20s partying and having casual sex? Sounds like a whole lot of your problem, buddy. They were YOUR 20s, you decided how to spend them, don’t get mad now that women in THEIR 20s get the same right. Like… let’s be honest here, you were socially awkward and nervous about girls, and instead of handling your personal problems and developing the social tools to move past these issues, you just hid in work and stewed in anger about it. Still a whole lot of your problem, bucko!

Like, I would have all the sympathy in the world for these guys if they had a modicum of empathy and awareness. Like, “I have severe social anxiety and difficulty forming relationships, and I’m working on it but therapy is expensive and difficult.” You know, something grounded in reality. That’s fair, and that sucks. But it seems to be this established pattern with a certain type of lonely guy that he uses rage and hatred like a shield against ever doing any personal work or self-examination, and they just simmer and stew and chew on that anger until it’s literally the only response they know how to have to other people, particularly women. It makes it impossible for me to have any sympathy for them.

And while I’d be happy to support better funding for mental health issues of all kinds, and research into solving these problems, all the therapy in the world isn’t going to work until you DECIDE to work on it. If you just want to sit there in your little rage bubble and hate the world, the therapist can’t magic you out of it.

I used to ghost the Wizardchan forums out of fascinated horror, and those guys… it’s sad, but they’re living in a cage of their own creation.

calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago

My Dad the misogynist also would probably say that he tried “therapy” as well and that it doesn’t work (since the SYSTEM is against all men and ignores their needs). He went to maybe 2 sessions and took a non-therapeutic level of Zoloft before quitting saying they DIDN’T UNDERSTAND HIM(aka: refused to say that all his problems caused by my mother). In order for therapy to work you need to 1.) Go 2.)take the meds (when applicable).

You also need to have realistic expectations. The idea isn’t to get women to like you through therapy, it’s for you to like yourself enough to stop evaluating your worth based on who you can convince to sleep with you.

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

I don’t think he’s the seagull eater, is he? Not enough adjectives. But if he is, have you hit the big 330 yet, Miggy? You must have! Happy belated birthday.
NickNameNick, could you maybe read this article and its whole comment thread, thanks?
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/04/09/why-i-prefer-small-boobs-isnt-helping/

Andy Cooper
Andy Cooper
4 years ago

My missus is 38.

She rocks (both in and out of the bedroom).

Oh these silly little manchildren, and their pitiable, misdirected self-loathing. Grow the fuck up.

Sseba
Sseba
4 years ago

Am I supposed to feel happy that I studied and worked my ass off (with ZERO help from ANYONE) from 13-30

Really? Zero help? I mean, not even Wikipedia or something? Because you realize you didn’t invent the entire Internet by yourself, don’t you?

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
4 years ago

I doubt I’m the first person to say this, but wow, I can’t FATHOM why these guys are having a hard time getting a girlfriend.
“Involuntary celibacy” is like “geriatric baby”, a term that makes no sense. Unless someone put a medieval chastity belt on you, you’re not “involuntarily celibate”, you are just failing, the blame is all on you, it’s that simple, and this is coming from a male 27 year old virgin! Even I think guys like this are laughably pathetic! There’s nothing involuntary about my situation, slavery was involuntary, this is just me sucking, and the same goes for any guy in my situation who isn’t a jain monk or Nikola Tesla. It’s no picnic, but when you have no sense of entitlement, it’s easy to just accept the blame and keep trying, rather than sitting around seething with bitterness about not getting all the sex you deserve because women are evil and can’t see how great you are.
It’s painfully obvious to me that all this shit, the mra’s and mgtow’s and whatever, it all stems from a massive unearned sense of entitlement. So it makes sense that we are seeing so much of this victim complex lately, that’ll happen when society is based around men having all the power for all of history and then they lose a minuscule fraction of that power.

Menopausal Magpie
Menopausal Magpie
4 years ago

Any man who thinks every 30 year old is wrinkled and saggy has obviously been getting his ideas of women from high-end skincare ads. Not from any acquaintance with actual women.

Also, this whole ‘incel’ thing? I, as a woman, was an ‘incel’ back in art college: desperate to be wanted by a man, ANY man, because I’d been brainwashed (thank you, mother) into believing that if I couldn’t attract one, there was Something Basically Wrong With Me. But strangely, I didn’t want to shoot up the photography class or end up hating men in general; I just turned it all on myself and thought I must be the most loathsome, worthless specimen in existence. I now realise that I was just painfully socially inept (I have what I think may be undiagnosed Asperger traits, although now, in my forties, I’ve learned get-arounds for most of them). But it’s interesting how these ‘incel’ guys react so differently to that situation. Ideas of male entitlement, probably.

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
4 years ago

If you believe in evolution, you can’t have it both ways. Our ancestors had to get a lot of important things right on average, generation after generation, to keep the human species in business in a harsh and dangerous world. And that includes getting human sexuality right enough for practical purposes.

Other things Mark Minus doesn’t understand: Evolution. Averages.
One bit of advice you may find useful: Therapy is not about “put in x amount of effort, solve one problem”. It’s kind of like women and sex in that respect. I do not get this insistence on using a vending-machine model for human interaction.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
4 years ago

I can’t be too critical of any 18 yo who thinks that a 30 yo is unattractive. At 18, I found 30 yo men to be unattractive. Maybe physically good looking, but unattractive. I now, in general, find 30 yo men to be unattractive – they are too young for me – although late 40s me finds them better looking than 18 yo me did.

What I can be critical about is the concept that women are ‘used up’ by 30. Patently ridiculous. Too many of these guys are sort of stuck at the 18yo them and remain attracted to actual, physical 18yos – who usually, of course, won’t be interested in them.

And yes, they are probably right to point out as Mark Plus has done that a past track record of NO relationship is a bit of a red flag to many potential partners. I wish to fuck I’d seen that red flag. And that is something that therapy probably could help with – by examining one’s own approach to social interactions and views of oneself and other people, one can become a better potential partner of a better potential partner – i.e. not just more fuckable but more lovable.

Plenty of ugly people – inside or outside can get laid – sometimes even people who are ugly inside and outside can get laid with some regularity. But not usually.

The Real Cie
The Real Cie
4 years ago

Well, Mark Plus, at least I didn’t see you claiming to have any medical knowledge, which is a good thing.
Women do not all hit menopause in their forties. You know, I wish we did, because I had miserable, horrible, very heavy periods into my early fifties. But hey, no such luck. There are variables with this sort of thing.
Also, not all women peak sexually in their twenties. Again, we are not some sort of flesh automaton whose bodies behave predictably. There are variables.
Sadly for dudebros like yourself, female human beings tend not to do things according to your desired plans for us. We are autonomous, and, except for those whose self esteems have been completely destroyed, we have a natural aversion to getting involved with men who express disdain for us.

Lyzzy
Lyzzy
4 years ago

Since it hasn’t been said yet, I wanted to point out that a lot of this idea of perfect feminity as young as possible seems to stem from the vulnerability and maleability typical of this group with reproduction being the fig leave to cover this little uglyness. One doesn’t need to be capable of dedication to another human being or even self improvement if they can just prey on the still-gullible, play benevolent dictator with a little help from priviledge then impregnate them early to lock them in. Eventually though youth must end and the marriage will most likely dissolve, transforming the guy to the even more bitter women-despising protofascist MRA.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Am I supposed to feel happy that I studied and worked my ass off (with ZERO help from ANYONE) from 13-30 without love,sex and intimacy and without enjoying a woman in her PRIME and BEST years.

No sex or intimacy when you were 13? Dude, that’s so sad. None at 14 or 15 either? Even sadder.

I must now accept a lower paying less educated woman who is past her prime and less attractive with sagging skin and stretch marks and who was a cum bucket for tons of chads for 17 years and be grateful and happy with that???

Jackville, I’m pretty sure you mean “lower paid,” not “lower paying.” But I’m more interested in the fact that you’re devastated that you have to “accept” a “less educated woman.” So in addition to intimacy with a woman, you also value an educated woman? You’re a catch!

Why should men even live if we are given such a raw deal in life?? Totally unfair and cruel if u ask me.

How is it that in 2017, men must still experience this anguish?! Governments worldwide need to step up their game and send every man a different hot, compliant babe every 6 months. That’s just science.

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