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Incels agree: It’s “unfair and cruel” to expect men to enjoy sex with women over 30

Happily, we don’t live in a world in which we’re put to death at the age of 30

The incel subreddit is filled with angry dudes who think their inability to convince any human females to have sex with them — their “INvoluntary CELibacy” — is some kind of human rights violation.

Many of these guys aren’t just mad that teen and twentysomething hotties aren’t leaping into bed with them; they’re mad in advance at any hypothetical “post-wall” women who would have sex with them. Because, you see, these bitter fellows imagine that all these women spent their prime hottie years having near-c0nstant sex with other dudes, thus using up all their sexual appeal, or something.

In other words, these guys think sex with any woman over 30 is like eating leftovers that have been quietly rotting away for a week in the fridge.

On the Incels subreddit today, a fellow calling himself jackville07 sets forth his version of this basic thesis:

If You did Not Enjoy Women in Your Youth then You got a RAW DEAL (self.Incels) submitted 8 hours ago by jackville07 Study hard, when ur 30 and successful all the women will finally mature and chase u since u will be a rich doctor. Dont worry All those chads will be working at a gas station at 30. Ur time will come. There is someone for everyone. Am I supposed to feel happy that I studied and worked my ass off (with ZERO help from ANYONE) from 13-30 without love,sex and intimacy and without enjoying a woman in her PRIME and BEST years. I must now accept a lower paying less educated woman who is past her prime and less attractive with sagging skin and stretch marks and who was a cum bucket for tons of chads for 17 years and be grateful and happy with that??? Why should men even live if we are given such a raw deal in life?? Totally unfair and cruel if u ask me.

I have so many questions. First off, why would any woman over thirty possibly want to have sex with a dude who sees her as the sexual equivalent of week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge?

And second, are you aware that having sex with a woman over the age of thirty is not actually the sexual equivalent of eating week-old lasagna sitting in the back of the fridge? 

Incel dudes: Here’s the thing. Not everyone starts having sex at a young age. Some don’t lose their virginity until they’re 30 or older — and this includes plenty of women. And very few people out there are having the constant sex you imagine everyone but you is having. Lots of people have dry spells — some of them years long. There are even some “Chads” out there who are, to use your term, “involuntary celibate.”

There’s nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to be angry about. It’s a part of life, not some plot engineered by the world’s women just to make you miserable.

Here’s the other thing: Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable. No woman — under thirty, over thirty, any age — should have to put up with a guy who hates them so much he’s furious that she’s ever had sex with anyone but him.

If you are able to purge yourself of these toxic ideas about women and sex, you might end up discovering that sex with women over thirty (or forty, or fifty, or OMG even older than that!) can actually be pretty damn awesome? If you get to the point of having sex on a relatively regular basis, enjoy the sex you are having, don’t sit around nursing your bitterness over hypothetical sex you didn’t have when you were younger.

One incel Redditor responded to jackville07 with this nonsense:

thegambler952 5 points 9 hours ago i feel you because im walking toward this path. i lost the best years of my life in a shitty university due to bullying. i will never get laid at 18 because im 21. fuck this. im too old and all girls are geting married while im pleading for chubbys to take my virginity

I’m sorry you were bullied, dude; no one deserves that. But as for the rest of your comment, well, fuck you. You didn’t “get laid at 18?” Big damn deal. Roughly a third of American males aged 18 and 19 are still virgins. If you spend the rest of your life bitter about the sex you weren’t having at age 18, no woman will ever want to fuck you, including the “chubbies” you’re now begging for sex.

Dudes, stop obsessing over the sex you’re not having. Stop reading the incel subreddit. Go to therapy. Your bitterness and hatred of women is rooted in self-hate; so are your feelings about older women and “chubbies.” Do your best to work through all of these issues. You will become a better person. You will become a happier person. You will become the sort of person women want to have sex with.

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ryeash
ryeash
3 years ago

@Bina

Not that it’s your fault. There’s no way for us lady-types to do protective coloration right. Even if catcalling wasn’t just about power, men’s standards of attraction are nowhere near the same as the standards of attractiveness to which they hold us. Which is also about power, so…basically, I’m just reiterating what everyone else here has said many times before: we’ll never win, because the game is rigged.

st0dad
st0dad
3 years ago

My 30th birthday was last Monday and as I woke up that day, almost instantly my skin pushed as much moisture out of it as possible and my breasts sagged to the floor.

Bina
3 years ago

@Ryeash:

Right. And that’s why I’m not playing the game. I’m supposed to be physically flawless, but still put up with every kind of shit from men? Fuck that noise.

Noncel
Noncel
3 years ago

I’m another one of those people (male in this case) who didn’t get anywhere with sex or relationships until his late 20s. I was quite unhappy about it; not in a ragey entitled sense, more in the low self-esteem ‘there must be something wrong with me’ kind of way. I found out about ‘incel’ and looked up communities on the web. Almost all of them were instantly recognisable as misogynist garbage, but I did actually find one that was OK called ‘Incel Support’. At the time I frequented it, it did actually have a mix of genders (including the mods/admins), wasn’t 100% hetero either, and the community generally shut down any sexist theories or really over-the-top wallowing. So it is possible to have a halfway functional ‘incel’ group, at least in principle (although it seems to have died or gone underground in the meantime). It probably did some good as catharsis and in keeping people away from the more toxic sites if nothing else. Still, I did notice the ‘success stories’ on the site, i.e. people who actually got into the kind of relationships they wanted, were relatively rare. The problem was that the members simply didn’t have enough positive experiences to give each other helpful dating advice.

As for my own situation, I met my current girlfriend (who is 9 years older than me, for what it’s worth) and went from almost zero experience to what is by now a happy 4-year relationship. I don’t think I was ever especially unattractive, nor was I cut off from women socially (except for when I attended an all boys’ school from 11 to 18), nor was I at a disadvantage in the bedroom due to lack of previous experience. (Honestly, if your partner is into you and knows what gets them off, it’s not that hard to give them a good time.) It just turns out that if you project an image of chastity, women generally respect that and don’t hit on you, so it’s easy to keep pretending to yourself that nobody could possibly be interested.

Old Fart
Old Fart
3 years ago

Here’s a clue: sex is like dancing, long term practice makes for a better result. And (in my experience) looks are nice, but knowledge is power…

I’ve been married to the same person for 30 years, and she’s hotter than ever. Since the procreation is out of the way, now it’s just for recreation.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

@Noncel

It just turns out that if you project an image of chastity, women generally respect that and don’t hit on you, so it’s easy to keep pretending to yourself that nobody could possibly be interested.

B-b-b-but PUAs are the masters of Social Dynamics !

LindsayIrene
3 years ago

Mark Plus is still going at it on Facebook. He claims that women over thirty smell so bad that they make him gag. (I suspect it’s mace he’s smelling. )

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Wait. How does turning thirty make you stinky? If anything, I was a bit stinkier as a teenage. For some reason I got worse BO. Nowadays if I forget deodorant it’s barely noticeable but when I was a teenager it was pretty gross. I have less body hair too.

Is he arguing that thirty year olds don’t shower or what?

It’s always bizarre when misogynists go on about women stinking. In my experience men are so much more likely to have bad breath, bad BO, stinky feet and pit stains.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ lindsayirene

(I suspect it’s mace he’s smelling. )

Must confess, that did make me giggle.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Okay, I don’t usually use my FB but I had to check it out. First of all, this dude is in now position to judge anyone’s fuckability. Not looks shaming here. It’s not like I’m a supermodel. But it’s both irritating and amusing that so many men who are not even approaching conventionally attractive are perpetually aggrieved by the existence of women who aren’t lingerie models. It’s just so hypocritical. Especially since he’s alternating between whining about women over thirty being gross (and he’s probably about 60) and whining about not getting sex. I’m sorry Mark, but what exactly about you are hot 20 year olds supposed to be attracted to?

Secondly, most of his posts on his own page are about cryonics and transhumanism. Dudes got serious issues with aging and mortality. He seems to think aging is a disease.

ryeash
ryeash
3 years ago

@Bina

Agreed, so much. It’s a tough road there, and no one will like you much on the way, but if there’s one thing crummy parents were good for, it was getting me used to being disliked for terrible reasons. I’m better equipped to take loud and unpopular stands about things that are important to me, like not being forced into gender roles. The downside is that I do not make many friends, lol.

Boobley
Boobley
3 years ago

Oh lol, Mark Plus – pre maritial sex ‘ruining women’.

So I have to explain the very simple concept of collation vs Causation.

I thought its SUPER obvious that the only people nowadays who abstain from all sex until marriage on principle are conservative and religious. The same people who don’t believe in the concept of divorce and will sit out unhappy marriages because thats just what you do.

I say this coming from a catholic country where you couldn’t get condoms without a prescription until the 90s and had no divorce until 1995.

These women are not ‘better’ wives. They just don’t see the point you both starting over fresh. They will stay there in their terrible marriages, reminding you how terrible it is.

I know way to many old couples who openly hate each other.

Francesca
Francesca
3 years ago

Well shit, I’m a conventionally attractive, highly educated 23 year old woman and no one has ever asked me out or shown the slightest bit of interest in me. I guess that makes me an incel- but don’t they claim women can’t be incel? Sure, whatever. Their concept of what it’s like to be a young woman is so warped. Is being somewhat conventionally attractive an advantage in a lot of social situations? I’m sure it is, I’m sure I get treated subtly better than I would if I were over weight or had some sort of visible disability. Are there men or women who want to have sex with me or a relationship with me? Maybe, I guess it’s possible, but no one has ever expressed interest. I have asked people myself and only ever been rejected. I have asked both men and women. I have asperger’s and a personality that people consider “too intense” and “too serious,” so that could be why people don’t like me. People are constantly demanding that I smile or laugh at things that aren’t funny. But I can’t keep up an act like that, it’s exhausting.

Anyway I just want to say that being a pretty girl is not the free pass in life these delusional assholes think it is. I have never even been kissed or held hands with anyone. I am desperately lonely. I try to meet people all the time but no one wants me. But they think their pain is a political issue, while mine doesn’t even exist. I want a beautiful and loving girlfriend just as much as they do, but you can’t always get what you want.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

From my experience studying a STEM field, many people (including conventionally attractive women) are in their late 20’s and haven’t had sex with someone else yet. Even for those who’ve had sex, it’s hard to find someone who’s loving and has good chemistry with you and maintain a healthy relationship with that person that’s balanced with other aspects of your life.

You ultimately need to decide to be happy with your life as it is right now. Continuing to nurture bitterness will make your life worse.

John Novak
John Novak
3 years ago

You make it sound like ALL INCELS agree on this.

Ever think that maybe some men are incel because NATURE simply gave them qualities which women are simply not attracted to? And that said men are NOT necessarily hateful, angry, sociopathic pieces of sh** who “hate women”?

No of course not. This is a hit piece filled to the brim with assumptions. ALL incels hate women over 30 for hitting on them. ALL incels blame women for their shortcomings.

Of course when you have it in your head that all incels are on par with Eliot Rodgers, you’ve already dehumanized incel men in your mind, so that makes it a lot easier to make unsubstantiated claims about ALL incel men based off of the rantings of a few angry dudes online.

The last paragraph makes me want to puke. It assumes ALL incels are the way they are because they “hate women”. NOTE: Not all incels “hate women”

And even if they did, “not hating women” doesn’t automatically mean women OWE it to you to have sex with you, so don’t make it sound like that’s a guarantee. You would think so when you think that the only way a man can arrive at incel status is by being a raging POS.

” Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable.”

NOT ALL INCEL DUDES HAVE SAID ATTITUDES, EVER THINK OF THAT?!?!?!?!?

There are forces of nature guiding what straight women find attractive and not-attractive. Just because a woman finds a man attractive doesn’t mean he’s a good person. Just because a man has qualities that most women find not-attractive doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a bad person deserving of the ridicule of articles like this one.

EsmeraldaMarcelli
EsmeraldaMarcelli
3 years ago

Hmm..
I am 48, so quite death and rotten, following the standards of those incel dudes, but guess what? Plenty of good looking, intelligent guys from nearly every fuckable age still show more interest in me as the way around.
Really, sometimes I get annoyed and telling the truth, I considere some cool guys in my age, way more interesting as younger dudes..
I really dont look bad for my age, pehaps I am more confident with my body now as I was 30 years ago, but I am pretty sure that is my personality(I often have being told) the most intriguing part of me.
What I really want to state here is that in my opinion, lot of women older than 30, dont give a single fuck about the fact that some whiny little boys are not interested in them.

John
John
3 years ago

You make it sound like ALL INCELS agree on this.

Ever think that maybe some men are incel because NATURE simply gave them qualities which women are simply not attracted to? And that said men are NOT necessarily hateful, angry, sociopathic pieces of sh** who “hate women”?

No of course not. This is a hit piece filled to the brim with assumptions. ALL incels hate women over 30 for hitting on them. ALL incels blame women for their shortcomings.

Of course when you have it in your head that all incels are on par with Eliot Rodgers, you’ve already dehumanized incel men in your mind, so that makes it a lot easier to make unsubstantiated claims about ALL incel men based off of the rantings of a few angry dudes online.

The last paragraph makes me want to puke. It assumes ALL incels are the way they are because they “hate women”. NOTE: Not all incels “hate women”

And even if they did, “not hating women” doesn’t automatically mean women OWE it to you to have sex with you, so don’t make it sound like that’s a guarantee. You would think so when you think that the only way a man can arrive at incel status is by being a raging POS.

” Incel dudes, as long as you have these attitudes, you are basically unfuckable.”

NOT ALL INCEL DUDES HAVE SAID ATTITUDES, EVER THINK OF THAT?!?!?!?!?

There are forces of nature guiding what straight women find attractive and not-attractive. Just because a woman finds a man attractive doesn’t mean he’s a good person. Just because a man has qualities that most women find not-attractive doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a bad person deserving of the ridicule of articles like this one.

John
John
2 years ago

I definitely overreacted to this. Didn’t mean to type twice? Not sure why I did that? Or was that someone else trying to turn me into pasta lol?

I agree with everything you typed actually, but I disagree that being a cool dude necessarily will make you “someone women want to have sex with”.

Even if you’re not misogynistic trash, women still don’t owe it to you to have sex with you, so don’t expect sex even if you are a real cool dude, I must unfortunately tell you…nature is cruel.

Anyways, would be nice if I could find a community of incels who aren’t like this. I am a former incel and would like to do what I can for those who are like I was.